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Vatican City State258 Posts
On December 13 2011 06:51 supersoft wrote:omg. I see horrible play all over the place. GUYS! Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 05:40 Comprissent wrote:On December 13 2011 05:00 GiygaS wrote:
[...]
I'll be be putting my tentative lynch vote on Zeks. This will turn in to a real vote if I come back in 3 hours and no new info has really been unveilied/no info that's an easy analysis for a lynch. The points against him have been pointed out by Deus-Ex, he wanted to vote a hydra off for really no reason, other than what I can see that he's threatened by them (a mafia would be threatened!) He also dissappeared for a while, and when he returned, he just quickly answered a quesiton, and didn't either reference or defend his accusations.
I would argue that Deus-ex seems the most threatened On December 13 2011 02:01 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote:
[...]
players like you lose games for town. fosing around without any reasons.
why dont you use your brain before you post.
i didnt attack you in the slightest. i didnt put words in your mouth. i only wanted that you tell me why you dont say that you like rads plan. its so simple. now take your incredibly stupid fos back stop derailing and answer my question:
why are you talking with no content? This is a fairly personal attack, that seems suspicious to me This post is bullshit! Why is a personal attack suspicious? It's not! He FoSd me for no reason and this is distracting! FoSing around for fun is disturbing. That is simple and true. Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 06:02 zeks wrote:On December 13 2011 05:34 risk.nuke wrote:
any kind of "those present should mutualy decide if to use pardon" is idiocy and a setup like that would only favor the mafia over town.
The pardoner will have to decide himself if he is going to use it or not, and if he pardons it's at his own risk. Forbidding it is idiocy but we should warn him that by using the abillity chances are high we'll kill him. amen inserting exceptions creates loopholes that a scum pardoner can use to get out of harms way. It is imperative that there are no exceptions @Giygas not sure where you're getting at that i'm feeling threatened. I am posting without fear. Funny how you think I'm the most threatened when Deus has by far been the most defensive from risk-nuke's FoS (which I think was pretty baseless from that one comment). So I point at a group of players who I may think is scum (from my sixth sense). Never thought it would be taken that seriously. For every nickel I get for every FoS or baseless accusation I've seen in past games I'd have plenty of nickels. Not to mention the people who are yelling around calling people stupid. If anything GiygaS your insistence on having exceptions for the no-pardon rule is scummy as you're essentially creating a failsafe plan for a scum pardoner who can use what you just said as reasoning for pardoning his scum buddy As good as the vets have proven to be in past games don't just trust them for the sake of their names; look at how they are playing this game. Don't give them (too) much credit "don't give the vets too much credit" nonesense. In fact recent TL.net towns tend to give vets not enough credit and end in a mess because everyone thinks he knows best. You don't catch scum if you don't see the game as a whole and all the possibilities. You think: "ooh he's plaing agressive - he must be scum" or "ooh he defends himself" that's bullshit. Town and scum react extremely similar when they're under pressure. Some just go afk, some are agressive, some appeal to emotions. The best way to separate scum from town is the discussion. From time to time scum has to or just accidentely uses "bad" logic, a townie wouldn't think of. They have to push their own agenda. There are nightactions that have to be explained, there are voteswitches that have to be explained and there are elections in this game. If every townie just posts for the sake of posting like this post for example: Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 06:05 zeks wrote:
Having said all that I again insist on having Radfield as mayor not pardoner despite his activity being slightly lower than Arcs he has made the most sense.
I would also argue Palmar is a harder read than Radfield (I mean WTF? you would also argue that Palmar is harder to read than Radfield? WHY?)
sorry kita ^_^
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
I assume the voting is plurality(most votes) and not majority lynch? Couldn't find anything in the OP. Also, is it permissible to vote for yourself for elections?
On December 13 2011 02:52 cascades wrote:
Similarly, I believe we should impose a policy restriction on mayor that Radfield omitted in his mayor election post. If two people are within 2 or even 1 vote count of each other, I think mayor should not interfere and make the 2nd place suspect the lynch instead. Letting the mayor have essentially 3 votes that he can abuse from day 1 seems like a bad idea.
No, If I am mayor and think someone is scum, I'm going to try to lynch them using any means at my disposal. I put in more than three times as much time as many players, I have no problem with using 3 times the voting power 
On December 13 2011 03:49 Comprissent wrote:
Ok, so assuming we stick to this play on No pardoning, no exceptions, the only advantage either of the offices gives is immunity on night 1 from getting hit. This just helps us keep the vets alive, am i right?
I'm pretty sure it gives them immunity for as long as the bodyguard is alive. So in theory mafia could shoot the bodyguard, Mayor and Pardoner all on night 1. Conversely they could have immunity all game if the bodyguard never dies.
On December 13 2011 03:51 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
Compreissent, they have immunity on day2 from getting lynched, and they have immunity on every night until the BG is dead. I believe.
No, anyone elected gets pardoned for the day they are elected. Not the day after they are elected. From the OP:
Election winners/runner ups will be pardoned during the corresponding day lynch.
On December 13 2011 04:24 Arctocod wrote:
Hey radfield don't you find it a bit strange how no one is arguing against you being elected yet, even subtly? It's always either vote for us both or vote for rad+someone else. I even opened the door for that when I stated early on that I found your first post a bit off
Same thing happened during the election in PYPInsane. The only players questioning me were townies, and almost everyone voting me for mayor was scum. I don't know why it happens, but I'm glad it does. I'm just an easy player for mafia to vote for, as there are legit reasons I suppose.
More importantly, you're too smart to make judgments about my alignment based on the people voting for me, so why bother bringing it up?
I suppose the point is this: if we are both town, it is extremely disadvantageous for mafia to allow us both into the elected spots. Therefore, unless one of us is mafia, there should be a counter push to the Radfield/Arctocod wagon. However, in my experience mafia tend to be fairly poor at going after elected positions, and are happy to buy town cred by voting in strong townies. It's a bad strat, but it happens all the time.
Of course you could also be scum, which at this point could very well be the case. Time will tell.
It's most definitely in towns best interest to stop worrying about the mayor election. It makes good sense to put me and arctocod in, so lets do it and move on to our lynch. I'd like to stop worrying about the mayor election and start spending my time reading filters(I have looked through 1 filter this game) and figuring out who we should lynch.
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I'm starting to get a bad feeling about Jistu.
The first thing that I noticed was this post in response to my initial thought about radfield's electorial post:
On December 12 2011 15:40 Jitsu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2011 14:51 GreYMisT wrote:
One thing that strikes me about radfield this game is how he immediately tied himself to arctocod in his election post. saying that you should vote for me, but his guy is also a good choice, so he will probally get pardoner anyway, but still vote for me. while an argument could be made that he is trying to show all the new players who to vote for, something sets me off about this. He should theorectically know he is town, and therefore should be pulling out all the stops to get people to vote for him, not endorsing other candidates he doesn't even know the aliengment of. Because of this, i am uncomfortable voting him for mayor at this time. I agree with this. Radfield tied himself quickly to another player. I have no scumread on him right now (nothing he has done really screams "mafia" to me) but I think we should hold on voting and bandwagoning this early, regardless. How would it look if Arcotocod flipped mafia after Radfield tied himself too him? Again, not claiming I have scum-vision. Just making a point that "itchy-trigger-finger" voting might be a bad thing.
While it isnt suspicious to agree with someone, notice the way in which he did it. He states that we should hold off voting right now, and then for some reason says "How would it look if Arcotocod flipped mafia after Radfield tied himself too him?" I cant think of a town reason someone would post this, but forcing people vote later in the day, so delay information and give themselves time to come up with votes is a mafia agenda. Also the sentence I quoted seems to be trying to do what radfield said scum would try, which is to make it so arctocod and radfield dont end up in office together. there is no town perspective for posting that.
On December 13 2011 01:09 Jitsu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 00:57 Radfield wrote:On December 13 2011 00:52 Jitsu wrote:On December 12 2011 22:58 Radfield wrote:
I think LAL is pretty terrible. It does two things wrong: One, it gives mafia a legitamate topic to discuss early game, when in fact we want them discussing elections and lynches. Two, it gives mafia a reason to push townies who may lie, even when the circumstances are not particularly damning to the townie. Every lie needs to be treated on a case by case basis. Townies lie ALL THE TIME, whether LAL exists or not, so it does not make sense to implement the policy. Not to mention, voting based on policy after Day 1(or even day 1) is terrible for town. We vote on content, not policy.
I don't understand your reasoning on this. Seeing as how you are a veteran, I will bow to your decision however and drop the issue. I'd much rather you understand what I'm saying. Which part doesn't make sense? And just because I'm a veteran doesn't mean I'm right. I bet there are plenty of vets who disagree with my statement on LAL (and they might be right!). I'll be gone for about the next 9 hours. Might be able to pop on around dinner time though. Sure. Hopefully we can clear this up quickly. In my opinion, lying does nothing to benefit the town, save rare circumstances in which a blue town role needs to keep their identity hidden. If we can bring issues to the fore-front with honesty and integrity, we would be able to root scum out quicker than if everyone was throwing off-hand lies. I can understand you're feeling on the case-by-case basis; I think it's pretty self-evident that most things in mafia need to be treated on a case-by-case basis; In this way, Policy is a bad word to use since it shows an unwavering thought process regardless of potential outcomes. Seeing as how we are almost down a day already, and I agree with your statement about giving the mafia a way to tie up valuable time spent discussing this topic, I thought it better to drop the whole thing and defer to you're rational as a vet, and let sleeping dogs lie, as it were. The whole point of bringing policy questions up in the first place was to try to get discussion to try to start some analysis. Maybe it's not a stereotypical move by players on the first night - we can chalk that up to my inexperience if you want, I think it was just my personal way of getting discussion started. Does that clear things up a bit, Radfield?
The above post was the next to catch my eye. after reading this post, basically the only thing he is saying really is "i wanted to start discussion" but notice the way he defers to radfields judgment upon being questioned, and then when questioned about that backtracks on himself. In my experience town players know what they believe, and dont have to worry about pleasing others.
Overall his posts between and after those have seemed very artifical, cold, and thought out to me. he seems very worried about not offending anyone, and never outright accusing. a town player won't do this. But mafia would.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On December 13 2011 07:14 Radfield wrote:
I assume the voting is plurality(most votes) and not majority lynch? Couldn't find anything in the OP. Also, is it permissible to vote for yourself for elections?
Correct, plurality lynch. No self-votes, sorry.
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I think the no pardon no exceptions rule seems like a good idea early game to me, but as it gets to lower amounts of players and where the mafia may have the majority, then it could maybe work.
I will probably vote for Artocod because it seems that he explained what the thought process of a mafia may be running for election
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On December 12 2011 14:51 GreYMisT wrote:
While it isnt suspicious to agree with someone, notice the way in which he did it. He states that we should hold off voting right now, and then for some reason says "How would it look if Arcotocod flipped mafia after Radfield tied himself too him?" I cant think of a town reason someone would post this, but forcing people vote later in the day, so delay information and give themselves time to come up with votes is a mafia agenda. Also the sentence I quoted seems to be trying to do what radfield said scum would try, which is to make it so arctocod and radfield dont end up in office together. there is no town perspective for posting that.
I simply didn't think it wise to start throwing votes around right as the game started. If you think that's mafia agenda, I apologize. I was originally wary of Radfield, but after our talks later, I felt that he was acting generally in a pro-town manner. Also, if I didn't want Arctocod and Radfield to go into office together, why would I already have voted for Radfield as my election vote? Like I said, I was skeptical at the beginning of Radfield's motives, but I have since warmed up to him.
GreYMisT wrote:
The above post was the next to catch my eye. after reading this post, basically the only thing he is saying really is "i wanted to start discussion" but notice the way he defers to radfields judgment upon being questioned, and then when questioned about that backtracks on himself. In my experience town players know what they believe, and dont have to worry about pleasing others.
Overall his posts between and after those have seemed very artifical, cold, and thought out to me. he seems very worried about not offending anyone, and never outright accusing. a town player won't do this. But mafia would
Did you read the whole thing GreYMisT? It was a pretty precarious situation. I deferred to Radfield's judgement because we were spinning tires on something that wasn't extremely productive, IE: deciding what a good lynch policy was. Later on, when Radfield asks me to explain my thought process, I did. Not quite following your backtrack upon backtrack upon backtrack. I do know what I believe, which is my ideas on Lynching Liars (which we are again talking about, somehow) but since it was a moot point at that time, I decided to drop it since it was unimportant.
I felt that whole situation was wrapped up fairly by the end.
As for accusing people, I'd like to get some fleshed out thoughts before posting half-witted accusations against someone, and up until a few pages ago, we were still discussing the possibilities of who the election candidates were.
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Something came up and I won't be able to post any content right now till tonight, so I won't until then. Sorry 
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@Radfield
Hey, how do you suggest that we get started for real with the lynch discussion?
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I'm going to be voting Radfield for mayor/pardoner. He would be good to have in either role, and now that he's posted some more I'm pretty confident that he's legit. If anyone hasn't looked at the election voting thread yet, it's literally all rad/arc, so it looks like our candidates are decided unless anyone has some major objections.
I'm not going to lie, I generally don't really have any clue what's going on day 1, and this game is no exception. I like prpl and Deus' posting. People have called out zeks a few times, and if you filter his posts it's clearly not without reason-- he went from not wanting a rad/arc office to, twelve hours later, voting for both of them. When questioned about it, he sidesteps the issue entirely. Trying to lay low like that after silently making such a big swing in his stance isn't something I'm comfortable seeing, so I'm throwing my lynch vote on him now. I want to see this guy under more pressure!
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On December 13 2011 09:09 Eiii wrote:
I'm going to be voting Radfield for mayor/pardoner. He would be good to have in either role, and now that he's posted some more I'm pretty confident that he's legit. If anyone hasn't looked at the election voting thread yet, it's literally all rad/arc, so it looks like our candidates are decided unless anyone has some major objections.
I'm not going to lie, I generally don't really have any clue what's going on day 1, and this game is no exception. I like prpl and Deus' posting. People have called out zeks a few times, and if you filter his posts it's clearly not without reason-- he went from not wanting a rad/arc office to, twelve hours later, voting for both of them. When questioned about it, he sidesteps the issue entirely. Trying to lay low like that after silently making such a big swing in his stance isn't something I'm comfortable seeing, so I'm throwing my lynch vote on him now. I want to see this guy under more pressure!
What do you think about my post on Jitsu?
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On December 13 2011 09:09 Eiii wrote:
I'm going to be voting Radfield for mayor/pardoner. He would be good to have in either role, and now that he's posted some more I'm pretty confident that he's legit. If anyone hasn't looked at the election voting thread yet, it's literally all rad/arc, so it looks like our candidates are decided unless anyone has some major objections.
I'm not going to lie, I generally don't really have any clue what's going on day 1, and this game is no exception. I like prpl and Deus' posting. People have called out zeks a few times, and if you filter his posts it's clearly not without reason-- he went from not wanting a rad/arc office to, twelve hours later, voting for both of them. When questioned about it, he sidesteps the issue entirely. Trying to lay low like that after silently making such a big swing in his stance isn't something I'm comfortable seeing, so I'm throwing my lynch vote on him now. I want to see this guy under more pressure!
Initially I didnt want Rad + Arc because of the potential for bad things and how Rad had linked themselves before Arc made a post but I was always down for Rad from the get go
Jeez am I not allowed to change my mind through the course of the game?
As of RIGHT NOW I don't care who's pardoner as long as its a vet and Rad gets mayor
How have I been laying low? I've answered all if not most of the questions directed at me and thrown my head out there. However you have posted next to nothing and one of your posts was
Woo!
Alright, I'm not going to be running for mayor or pardoner or anything. I'm going to be voting for one of the hydras, in all likelihood-- from my experience, multi-person players (especially with experienced, devoted mafia players behind them) can absolutely wreck games like this. Having a pro-town hydra behind a bodyguard should be town's goal for today, in my opinion.
Could we start discussing in advance how the pardoner should be used? I remember the pardoner being a pretty controversial role in the last game I played with one, so it'd be good if we could get people talking about how he should behave *before* we elect one. It seems to me that having a pardoner that can pardon *twice* is ridiculously powerful, and could probably win scum the game outright if a red got that spot. If anything, the person who gets pardoner needs to propose and discuss their actions in advance-- any sort of surprise pardoning of a lynch candidate needs to result in an immediate lynch of the pardoner.
You said you were voting for one of the hydras and now you're voting Radfield. This is the same crap you're accusing me for.
You come out of the wallcracks to throw a 2nd vote on me to get the wagon rolling after GiygaS voted for me. Suspicious
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On December 13 2011 07:05 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 06:51 supersoft wrote:omg. I see horrible play all over the place. GUYS! On December 13 2011 05:40 Comprissent wrote:On December 13 2011 05:00 GiygaS wrote:
[...]
I'll be be putting my tentative lynch vote on Zeks. This will turn in to a real vote if I come back in 3 hours and no new info has really been unveilied/no info that's an easy analysis for a lynch. The points against him have been pointed out by Deus-Ex, he wanted to vote a hydra off for really no reason, other than what I can see that he's threatened by them (a mafia would be threatened!) He also dissappeared for a while, and when he returned, he just quickly answered a quesiton, and didn't either reference or defend his accusations.
I would argue that Deus-ex seems the most threatened On December 13 2011 02:01 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote:
[...]
players like you lose games for town. fosing around without any reasons.
why dont you use your brain before you post.
i didnt attack you in the slightest. i didnt put words in your mouth. i only wanted that you tell me why you dont say that you like rads plan. its so simple. now take your incredibly stupid fos back stop derailing and answer my question:
why are you talking with no content? This is a fairly personal attack, that seems suspicious to me This post is bullshit! Why is a personal attack suspicious? It's not! He FoSd me for no reason and this is distracting! FoSing around for fun is disturbing. That is simple and true. On December 13 2011 06:02 zeks wrote:On December 13 2011 05:34 risk.nuke wrote:
any kind of "those present should mutualy decide if to use pardon" is idiocy and a setup like that would only favor the mafia over town.
The pardoner will have to decide himself if he is going to use it or not, and if he pardons it's at his own risk. Forbidding it is idiocy but we should warn him that by using the abillity chances are high we'll kill him. amen inserting exceptions creates loopholes that a scum pardoner can use to get out of harms way. It is imperative that there are no exceptions @Giygas not sure where you're getting at that i'm feeling threatened. I am posting without fear. Funny how you think I'm the most threatened when Deus has by far been the most defensive from risk-nuke's FoS (which I think was pretty baseless from that one comment). So I point at a group of players who I may think is scum (from my sixth sense). Never thought it would be taken that seriously. For every nickel I get for every FoS or baseless accusation I've seen in past games I'd have plenty of nickels. Not to mention the people who are yelling around calling people stupid. If anything GiygaS your insistence on having exceptions for the no-pardon rule is scummy as you're essentially creating a failsafe plan for a scum pardoner who can use what you just said as reasoning for pardoning his scum buddy As good as the vets have proven to be in past games don't just trust them for the sake of their names; look at how they are playing this game. Don't give them (too) much credit "don't give the vets too much credit" nonesense. In fact recent TL.net towns tend to give vets not enough credit and end in a mess because everyone thinks he knows best. You don't catch scum if you don't see the game as a whole and all the possibilities. You think: "ooh he's plaing agressive - he must be scum" or "ooh he defends himself" that's bullshit. Town and scum react extremely similar when they're under pressure. Some just go afk, some are agressive, some appeal to emotions. The best way to separate scum from town is the discussion. From time to time scum has to or just accidentely uses "bad" logic, a townie wouldn't think of. They have to push their own agenda. There are nightactions that have to be explained, there are voteswitches that have to be explained and there are elections in this game. If every townie just posts for the sake of posting like this post for example: On December 13 2011 06:05 zeks wrote:
Having said all that I again insist on having Radfield as mayor not pardoner despite his activity being slightly lower than Arcs he has made the most sense.
I would also argue Palmar is a harder read than Radfield (I mean WTF? you would also argue that Palmar is harder to read than Radfield? WHY?) sorry kita ^_^
All I've seen you do is call people stupid/retard and pointing out how you think people are playing bad yet what have you done that is constructive?
You keep saying risk.nuke FoSed you for no reason but its clearly here if you read
I never said there is something wrong with it either, If I would had it would had been very clear because I would had provided arguments, ergo you can conclude I did never in any way say there is something wrong with it. I merely didn't want words put in my mouth.
Deus. what you said was an inch from basicly twisting that into claiming I said something is wrong with Radfields plan.
FoS.
Now whether it is a good reason remains to be seen but he CLEARLY provided a reason
Over half your posts all you do is say is this idea is stupid, this guy is stupid, this guy plays horrible
Nevermind not discussion the election which is pretty set. We still got a lynch to do and you're already talking about night actions calling for medic proc? Fast forward much? The only reason you'd deserve a medic proc is for your other half
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Gone for the rest of the night hitting the gym then gotta wake up early for work tomorrow
inb4 the "i'm sidestepping and laying low and ducking arguments" when i don't post for the next 12 hours or so
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On December 13 2011 09:09 Eiii wrote:
I'm going to be voting Radfield for mayor/pardoner. He would be good to have in either role, and now that he's posted some more I'm pretty confident that he's legit. If anyone hasn't looked at the election voting thread yet, it's literally all rad/arc, so it looks like our candidates are decided unless anyone has some major objections.
I'm not going to lie, I generally don't really have any clue what's going on day 1, and this game is no exception. I like prpl and Deus' posting. People have called out zeks a few times, and if you filter his posts it's clearly not without reason-- he went from not wanting a rad/arc office to, twelve hours later, voting for both of them. When questioned about it, he sidesteps the issue entirely. Trying to lay low like that after silently making such a big swing in his stance isn't something I'm comfortable seeing, so I'm throwing my lynch vote on him now. I want to see this guy under more pressure!
If Zeks is scum he would have probably made up his mind right away who he wants in office. This makes him seem town as he is trying to feel out the candidates. Also, more have stepped up in this '12 hour' window you've talked about, so I can't blame anyone for changing their minds
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Whose everyone going to vote for lynch? times gonna be up in about an hour
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I think I would be voting for syllo/palmar here. They obviously have proven track records of being good town players so I think that having them elected would be a great help in directing town discussion. At the same time, I believe that the veterans know enough of how they play to be able to sniff them out if they actually are mafia (kind of a check&balance thing).
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Alright, I just caught up on the thread.
On December 13 2011 03:08 Spaackle wrote:
For the lurkers in the thread, maybe a couple questions would get some activity:
1. What do you think of the No Pardon, No Exception rule?
2. Give your specific impressions of the campaigns so far, especially the major ones.
Remember, the more you get into the game you're playing, the more fun it is! :D
1. No Pardon should not be carried out until the very late game, where there's probably some weird scenario in which pardoning would be important. However I don't think we need to discuss that now because there are too many possibilities.
2. Radfield seems to be playing pro-town. Palmar is not taking his usual controversial stance that he normally seems to assume. This is not scummy (I even think he said somewhere that he was going to try out a new style) but at this point I trust Radfield a lot more.
##Vote: Radfield (for election)
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On December 13 2011 10:47 nyczbrandon wrote:
Whose everyone going to vote for lynch? times gonna be up in about an hour
I'm just gonna vote whoever you vote. Who are you voting?
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On December 13 2011 10:47 nyczbrandon wrote:
Whose everyone going to vote for lynch? times gonna be up in about an hour
we should still ahve 24 hours right?
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Ill be voting for Radfield also. Since he is an experienced player and because of the reasons others say.
I don't really have a town or scum read on anyone yet, so I can't give my opinion on who to lynch yet.
Now I have to go to sleep. I will be posting again in a few hours.
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EPT
