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On December 13 2011 05:00 GiygaS wrote:I have already stated that I would want an exception to the no pardon rule (before anyone else actually, I stated that the pardoner rule should only be used in aforementioned exceptions). I'm just thinking of a hypothetical situations that we suddenly get a really strong scum-read on somebody, and the majority of people in the thread want to lynch this new guy, but there are a lot of inactives who can't switch their vote because they are afk. Basically, we want to regulate these kind of exceptions so that we don't have no direction when these sitautions arise. This is what I want: When the Pardoner should Pardon: In a period of time of 30 minutes to 3 hours before the lynch, a pardoner can commence an unofficial voting session . All those active int he thread at this time will HAVE to vote either Yes or No to pardon the person in quesiton. This keeps the pardoner power in the hands of the town, and keeps things by and large under control. If anyone has any doubts ont his subject, bring them up, and we may want to change some of the restrictions on this. If there's a stituation that this rule did not think of, I would really feel bad  On the subject of rules for elected officials: I believe mayoral candidates should declare who their hidden vote is for. The benefits simply outweigh the negatives. Sure, the mafia gets a better idea of the voting situation, but it gives the mayor far more transparency, and gives us ability to monitor and regulate these powerful roles. On the subject of campaigns, I'm going to be voting for Radfield/Arctocod.and more specifically Arctocod. I feel he's being more transparent than Radfield, and has been raising some good points with good logic. I feel like Radfield has kind of said canned start of game sort of stuff so far, so i don't have any reason to think he's mafia, but I'm not convinced he's totally town either. Again, I'm leaning more int eh way that he's town because he brought up another very good palyer so quickly, who I would believe would be a threat to him if he was a mafia. On to the subject of who I want to vote: I'll be be putting my tentative lynch vote on Zeks. This will turn in to a real vote if I come back in 3 hours and no new info has really been unveilied/no info that's an easy analysis for a lynch. The points against him have been pointed out by Deus-Ex, he wanted to vote a hydra off for really no reason, other than what I can see that he's threatened by them (a mafia would be threatened!) He also dissappeared for a while, and when he returned, he just quickly answered a quesiton, and didn't either reference or defend his accusations.
The problem with your pardoner exception is first: if the majority of the town online wants to change the vote, they can. its a majority lynch. the majority would need to be inactive in order for this senario. But lets say the pardoner pardons anyway. imagine the state town would be in with the nightpost. No lynch occured, people return from being inactive, see that the pardoner used his powers. This chaos, coupled with the fact that no info was gained by lynching and the WIFOM created because the pardoner pardoned someone, would completely disable a town for a full day, and the same person would probally get lynched anyway, followed by the pardoner.
Do not pardon. period.
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My only problem with that is: a lot of the time, the majority IS offline in the time period given. This with the fact that a pardoner doesn't actually nullify all votes that day making there be a no lynch, it's on one specific person, making the next highest person get lynched. Right? There would be no WIFOM because it would be a mojority decision, especially if there WAS a good reason that had been brought up, which was the hypothetical situation I brought up. This situation is going to come by VERY rarely, but we need to be prepared if something like this does happen, we can't just be: "Oh yeah, that now (mostly) confirmed blue got lynched becuase we initially thought he was mafia, then some info got brought up, but our pardoner was scared to use his power cause of some stupid policy. Oh well *shrug*"
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On December 13 2011 05:14 GiygaS wrote:
My only problem with that is: a lot of the time, the majority IS offline in the time period given. This with the fact that a pardoner doesn't actually nullify all votes that day making there be a no lynch, it's on one specific person, making the next highest person get lynched. Right? There would be no WIFOM because it would be a mojority decision, especially if there WAS a good reason that had been brought up, which was the hypothetical situation I brought up. This situation is going to come by VERY rarely, but we need to be prepared if something like this does happen, we can't just be: "Oh yeah, that now (mostly) confirmed blue got lynched becuase we initially thought he was mafia, then some info got brought up, but our pardoner was scared to use his power cause of some stupid policy. Oh well *shrug*"
how can it be a majority decision if the majority is offline?
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On December 13 2011 05:18 GreYMisT wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 05:14 GiygaS wrote:
My only problem with that is: a lot of the time, the majority IS offline in the time period given. This with the fact that a pardoner doesn't actually nullify all votes that day making there be a no lynch, it's on one specific person, making the next highest person get lynched. Right? There would be no WIFOM because it would be a mojority decision, especially if there WAS a good reason that had been brought up, which was the hypothetical situation I brought up. This situation is going to come by VERY rarely, but we need to be prepared if something like this does happen, we can't just be: "Oh yeah, that now (mostly) confirmed blue got lynched becuase we initially thought he was mafia, then some info got brought up, but our pardoner was scared to use his power cause of some stupid policy. Oh well *shrug*" how can it be a majority decision if the majority is offline?
Somethign around 40% of people in Canada voted, yet we have a majorty government that's by and large accepted. If the majority players ONLINE pick something, then there may be some protests from the inactives, but it should be a "no until proven yes" sort of thing. The exception should only be brought up if BIG info happens, that radically changes the way a LOT of people who are online are thinking about a lynch, in a short amount of time before the lynch. Like I said, this situation is rare, but it could happen, and we should use the pardoner to it's potential if this does happen.
Anyway, my comp science class is ending so I have to go for around 4 hours, peace.
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any kind of "those present should mutualy decide if to use pardon" is idiocy and a setup like that would only favor the mafia over town.
The pardoner will have to decide himself if he is going to use it or not, and if he pardons it's at his own risk. Forbidding it is idiocy but we should warn him that by using the abillity chances are high we'll kill him.
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On December 13 2011 05:00 GiygaS wrote:
[...]
I'll be be putting my tentative lynch vote on Zeks. This will turn in to a real vote if I come back in 3 hours and no new info has really been unveilied/no info that's an easy analysis for a lynch. The points against him have been pointed out by Deus-Ex, he wanted to vote a hydra off for really no reason, other than what I can see that he's threatened by them (a mafia would be threatened!) He also dissappeared for a while, and when he returned, he just quickly answered a quesiton, and didn't either reference or defend his accusations.
I would argue that Deus-ex seems the most threatened
On December 13 2011 02:01 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote:
[...]
players like you lose games for town. fosing around without any reasons.
why dont you use your brain before you post.
i didnt attack you in the slightest. i didnt put words in your mouth. i only wanted that you tell me why you dont say that you like rads plan. its so simple. now take your incredibly stupid fos back stop derailing and answer my question:
why are you talking with no content?
This is a fairly personal attack, that seems suspicious to me
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Hi there, I've just read up all the posts.
My opninion on the discussion what to do with the pardoner: I think he should never use his power, because it will only create confusion, which is anti-town.
On who to elect: I think it is good to have an experienced player in the office. I'm trying to determine which one would be better, but I think it's kind of hard to do so early in the game, with so little said from the candidates and I don't have a gut feeling as of yet.
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On December 13 2011 05:34 risk.nuke wrote:
any kind of "those present should mutualy decide if to use pardon" is idiocy and a setup like that would only favor the mafia over town.
The pardoner will have to decide himself if he is going to use it or not, and if he pardons it's at his own risk. Forbidding it is idiocy but we should warn him that by using the abillity chances are high we'll kill him.
amen
inserting exceptions creates loopholes that a scum pardoner can use to get out of harms way. It is imperative that there are no exceptions
@Giygas not sure where you're getting at that i'm feeling threatened. I am posting without fear. Funny how you think I'm the most threatened when Deus has by far been the most defensive from risk-nuke's FoS (which I think was pretty baseless from that one comment). So I point at a group of players who I may think is scum (from my sixth sense). Never thought it would be taken that seriously. For every nickel I get for every FoS or baseless accusation I've seen in past games I'd have plenty of nickels. Not to mention the people who are yelling around calling people stupid.
If anything GiygaS your insistence on having exceptions for the no-pardon rule is scummy as you're essentially creating a failsafe plan for a scum pardoner who can use what you just said as reasoning for pardoning his scum buddy
As good as the vets have proven to be in past games don't just trust them for the sake of their names; look at how they are playing this game. Don't give them (too) much credit
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Having said all that I again insist on having Radfield as mayor not pardoner despite his activity being slightly lower than Arcs he has made the most sense.
I would also argue Palmar is a harder read than Radfield
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Hey, where did DropBear and ProfessorBadass go?
ProfessorBadass is even a hydra and he's posted like twice. Less HoN, more mafia.
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United States2095 Posts
MrZentor Refallen Evantrees Eiii Nisani201 What are your thoughts on who we should lynch? Trying to get the inactives talking~ Also if it comes down to who we have to lynch off tonight, will the mod remove those who havn't posted at all? So its not smart for us to vote off the lurkers because of this? If they make 1 post will they get to stay? If so, I personally think unless people are getting really good reads, we should vote off the lurkiest lurker...
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1. What do you think of the No Pardon, No Exception rule?
I like it the case of a mayor swung lynch bugs me a little though.
have to go out so I'll stop there for now.
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On December 13 2011 06:16 evantrees wrote:
1. What do you think of the No Pardon, No Exception rule?
I like it the case of a mayor swung lynch bugs me a little though.
have to go out so I'll stop there for now.
Something doesn't sit right with me here. Come post, like, 5 minutes after Sheth calls him out for being a lurker, than covers and says he's going out.
And I didn't even understand the meat of his post.
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United States2095 Posts
It may be fishy, but please don't let it stop the others from coming out. The only reason it might seem fishy is that he posted quick and is leaving quick and didn't give much info. So come on other guys, lets see some text! Also, this is completely unrelated, but I learned it on reddit, Bears don't hibernate!
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People should stop talking about pardoner, if he pardons he gets lynched unless he has a very good reasonable, and he almost certainly doesn't. Both Radfield and Arctocod are smart enough to know this and they're very likely not going to pardon anybody so the discussion is kinda pointless. If there may be an exception to this rule then we'll take it up at that point but for now, pardoner gets lynched if he decides to pardon anybody.
@Liquid`Sheth
Lynching a lurker is usually just a backup plan that we execute in case we can't get a good read on anybody. Since there's like 30 hours until deadline it's better to try to scum hunt before we just lynch the guy with the lowest post count (especially since he will not be mafia).
So, do you have any reads on anybody based on anything substantial yet? You said that I was "weird" in an earlier post, what exactly did you mean by this?
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United States2095 Posts
Ok after re-reading the earlier posts... You were talking a lot about how the mayor / pardoner weren't important roles. And it didn't really matter if they were scum in those roles or not.
PRP: "Last game I WAS scum, so it's good that a lot of people had me on their list? Also, you shouldn't be talking about Palmar's performance in XLVIII when that game is still going on.
Why would it be devastating to have Radfield/Arctocod in office if they're both scum? The Mayor's role isn't really that powerful, and PYP:I was won without the Pardoner stopping a single lynch, and if the Pardoner stops a lynch without a huge reasonable then he's autolynch the next day. Wouldn't it be worse to have them out of office if they are town?"
Or at least thats how I read that to sound. So I thought this logic was really weird. I still feel that both of these positions are really strong and that having scum be them, and especially scum that are good would be the worst possible situation for town to be in. I'm not a fan of this whole If there scum they'll mess up if there elected. I've never played online though so maybe I'm wrong. Its just a feeling that if someone is good, they're not going to make an easy mistake in either place and we just have to be careful.
However I get what your saying. If there fishy, we can lynch them. I just really didn't like your logic. I'm still not a huge fan of it, but I'm sure I'll see. I'll be watching those positions really closely. Anyway I kind of ranted a bit, but thats my thoughts on it. And I do think if we get a weird vibe from either Radfield or Arcto as we continue on, then we shouldn't vote for them. As of now I don't see anything fishy yet though. I'm interested to see how Radfield responds to Arcto's last question though. Geuss I'll have to wait for supper  !
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OT: @Sheth, No my nick comes from cascades as in waterfall. I did look up the juggling term you mentioned. I can do basic 3 ball cascades though, so hey, I got a new origin story next time someone asks.
Mayor is a more powerful role than Pardoner IMO. With Mayor, it counts as additional 2 scum members for LYLO purposes and it's a hidden timer. With Pardoner, one lynch gets postponed and pardoner outs himself if he makes a rubbish pardon. With endgame KP of 1-2, it is defintely not as powerful.
In conclusion, the vet you feel as most townie/easier to read should be mayor.
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Vatican City State258 Posts
Sorry!!! I posted that with my phone -,-
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
As this is probably going to be a common problem, if you you accidently post under the wrong account, please quote the post with your hydra account and then edit the previous post out. Changing the contents of the post will result in a multi-game ban. ty
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EPT
