EPTTL Mafia XLVII - Page 37
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minus_human
4784 Posts
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xtfftc
United Kingdom2343 Posts
On November 25 2011 04:25 minus_human wrote: Lynch younminii. Why? | ||
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IMABUNNEH
United Kingdom1062 Posts
Lynch All Liars. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On November 25 2011 04:02 layabout wrote: + Show Spoiler + On November 25 2011 03:19 Jackal58 wrote: Do all the math you want. One of those 4 I listed are most likely from the scum team. I am going to go watch football and eat to much. I'll be back later. then can you please justify why you think that one of them is scum? If none of them are scum town pretty much already has won the game (according to what vets say because they keep saying they're so super awesome) and we do not even haven to care in the first place. That's not the reason why but that's a conclusion I want to point out because if that's the case, hey I don't care how we win. The reason he (and I) think(s) at least 1 or 2 of these people are mafia is because mafia would be stupid not to get one of their vets in a position. It's very unlikely that all vets are on townieside and given what people said about gm's hosting I doubt that that's happening. Therefore I come to the conclusion that scum got vets / good players as well. These are players who are able to trick you into thinking they're town by what they are doing because they're very careful at what they do. A newer guy has to be very careful to not tell something wrong or everyone will instantly see they are scum because of what he said isn't making sense (unless he's mafia for example). So while mafia probably will not send in some new guys to run for mayor because it's probably to hard for them to answer everything and NOT screw up these guys are capable of doing so without screwing. Probably not forever but for a long enough time to make it be worthy. There's just no reason not to try to get a mafia on that spot. Therefore I and most people here think there are a bunch of people who actually are mafia here and trying to become mayor to get an advantage; who would have thought oO | ||
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Pigsquirrel
United States615 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285690¤tpage=28#542 All flavor, no meat. Only point that can be drawn is that he is cocky. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285690¤tpage=28#544 More often than anyone else in this game, have I been killed night 1 as town I have played 22 games of mafia on TL prior to this one I had to learn the game the hard way, I fucked up massively in my newbie games In the last 7 games I have played as town, I have successfully pushed for mafia lynch on day 1 I am one of the most transparent player in this game, my town play is top notch, my scum play is pretty bad Bold one: A lot of candidates use this argument. All it really says is “I am sick of getting killed night 1 so I wanna be mayor.” They try to draw the connection that this means they are a threat to scum, but whether or not they are a threat matters nothing if they ARE scum. Bold two: “I am bad at scum therefore I am not scum, and even if I were scum, it'd be safe for me to be mayor because I can't play scum” Sounds solid to me. You have the opportunity to vote one of the more experienced player and one of the more successful players into office. You are experienced and successful (as town, obviously not as scum, because you are bad at scum play, right?) therefore you are not scum. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12425558 It will be hard for town to get me into office. Along with sandroba, if he's town, I am the only player that's running so far that poses serious and very real threat to the mafia. This means that I will have vocal players who want to call me out and will not support my campaign. I promise you that I will respond to each and every criticism in sufficient detail, because not only does it help the discussion, it allows all of you to get a better read on me. Bold one: This is interesting. First off, he supports sandroba. It’s too early to start drawing serious conclusions between the two, but he makes the point “elect me or elect sandroba,” which is slightly suspicious. Bold two: This is hard to read. How does one react to a suspect stating that he has nothing to hide. He is either overconfident scum (after his annuoncement post, cockyness isn’t out of the question), or truly innocent. I don’t know where to go with this one. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12425601 This makes no sense. Without having acquired any prior knowledge or put any effort into your reads, there is no less reason to trust me than the other 79 players in the game. We all have the same chance of being mafia. The reason you are hesitant to trust me is either because you're mafia and know by extension that I'm town, and see me as a threat, or that you're town and you don't trust me, in which case I will throughout the course of the day provide ample reasoning as to why I should be trusted. You are recommending that people take the 80% chance that you are innocent, a pretty easy point to make when you personally know what the answer will be ahead of time. This continues the trend of "take the risk, I am bad at scum so it doesn't matter if the risk works out poorly." http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12425685 Since then, I can assure you, it is my town play, much more than my scum play, that has stood out. I happen to be pretty good at playing 3rd parties too, but that's irrelevant here. I am either scum or town, and for the record, I am town this game. You are free to believe what you want, but you would do well to at least read through my play in the past few games as mafia and town, the games are listed in my profile. I am first and foremost a town player. Bold one: You keep repeating this point, along with pointing out the odds that you are town. Your base argument seems to be “take the risk, if I am scum, you get a bad scum mayor, if I am town, you get a good town mayor”. Why should be take the risk? I would rather elect somebody who I am fairly confident is town than somebody who is likely scum but supposedly bad at scum. Bold two: Because that totally affects how GMarshal selected scum for this game. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285690¤tpage=28#555 I'm not avoiding anything youngminii, I thought I gave you an assignment for reading before you came back here arguing? Yes, I do apply to a strict LAL policy (Lynch-All-Liars). If you can prove that my scum play is better than my town play, then I will gladly be the one to hang tonight. The quality of your play as scum vs as town means nothing as to whether or not you are scum this game. And nobody can "prove" the quality of your play, that's an opinion. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12428443 This game is surprisingly hard for a newbie game, but given the hosts we have, I wouldn't expect anything less. There is very little information in the game going to be concrete, owing to the setup's many alignment traps, and both sides having many conventional town roles. Normally vigilantes can claim a hit to be confirmed, this is not the case now. Regarding LAL, I completely disagree. I think the absolutely best way to educate newbies about how to play is to strictly forbid them lying. I have both explained why it's important they don't lie, and provided a link to short article discussing the issue. A slap on the wrist is not going to do, there will be no excuses for lying. You start taking the campaign a different direction with this post, the “I will help newbies with policies and by directing blues” direction. Both of these can end up helping scum at a clutch point in the game. Policy lynches, as others have said, can wind up bogging down the game and preventing known scum from being lynched. Directing blues can obviously help scum out. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12428778 If you really want to get good fast, I suggesting keeping a document where you write down notes on each individual player. Thanks for the advice. I made this analysis from notes in my “Palmar” document in Google Docs. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12428872 I have no problem with people trying to oppose my campaign, BC seems to be doing it for much more valid reasons. I felt that in such a big game with so many newbies, I needed to establish a presence by pointing out I am actually pretty good at this game (most of the time Taking the “helping newbies” further, as well as leaning towards the “I am good therefore should be mayor” argument. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12431198 And no matter how good he thinks I am as scum, he cannot possibly be so afraid of me that I will simply autowin the game. I command some respect, but that's over the top. That's simply fear tactics. Notice the difference between YM and BC in what they suppose will happen if I get elected mayor and am scum. YM says it's autowin for scum, and BC says it's okay as long as good townies remain alive. [b]It's simply absurd to think the game is gone if I were scum and voted into office. Once again, it reeks of over the top fear tactics. While it was probably a mistake, youngminii also contradicted his own words, as outlined here: This really scares me. You return to your previous point, that even if you were scum, it wouldn’t be THAT bad. Your entire argument revolves around how “not that bad” it would be if you were scum and got elected. Nothing trying to prove that you are not scum. [b]TL;DR Palmar repeatedly states that, if he were to get elected, and he was scum, it wouldn’t be that bad because his scum play is pretty poor. (It has been debated as to whether or not his scum play is really that bad to begin with, but that’s a moot point). He never provides arguments that he is not scum, nor does he announce any strictly pro-town or transparent plans for how he well act assuming he is elected. So, feel free to vote Palmar if you are comfortable with a scummy mayor, as long as he’s better at playing town than scum. | ||
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Pigsquirrel
United States615 Posts
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IMABUNNEH
United Kingdom1062 Posts
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Pigsquirrel
United States615 Posts
Also, I'm not proposing FoS at Palmar. I am simply pointing out that his campaign plan is full of holes given the assumption that he is scum. | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On November 25 2011 04:40 IMABUNNEH wrote: By the way what is EBWOP? I keep seeing it used. I picked up most acronyms from my last game, not that one Edit By Way Of Post, its used when you realize you missed something in your post, but can't edit it | ||
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Pigsquirrel
United States615 Posts
On November 25 2011 04:40 IMABUNNEH wrote: By the way what is EBWOP? I keep seeing it used. I picked up most acronyms from my last game, not that one You ninjad me. Darn. Anyway, Edit By Way Of Post. You aren't allowed to edit, as it breaks analysis, so you edit by double (or triple) posting. | ||
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iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On November 25 2011 04:40 IMABUNNEH wrote: By the way what is EBWOP? I keep seeing it used. I picked up most acronyms from my last game, not that one Edit By Way Of Post. You are not allowed to edit your posts in this game (and you will be modkilled for it), so any corrections you need to make should be done in a later post, quoting the post you want to edit and then outlining your changes. | ||
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xtfftc
United Kingdom2343 Posts
Why are you defending minushuman's lack of argumentation? | ||
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iGrok
United States5142 Posts
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Pigsquirrel
United States615 Posts
On November 25 2011 04:43 iGrok wrote: EBWOP: Damn ninja's >:U I got ninjad out of my tr-tr-triple post AND ninjad out of my post containing my statement of prior ninjament. In other news, suddenly relevant. | ||
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Nisani201
United States1400 Posts
On November 24 2011 23:29 mcht wrote: if you would be elected and you are scum, how would you say are towns chances of winning ?  This is a very important question to ask before choosing to vote for. Palmar says that his scum play is heavily inferior to his town play, but this is simply not true. On November 25 2011 00:46 Palmar wrote: You should not discuss players who are still alive in ongoing games. Too fucking bad, I'm doing it anyways. In Steamship, Palmar's entire purpose was manipulating the town (and because of that, I am now dead). It does not even matter if he was scum or not. The fact is that, your opinions will be twisted by what Palmar says. Even if he is town in this game, he can still be wrong. But his incorrect opinions will cost the town the game if he is elected mayor. Which is why, I would strongly recommend not voting Palmar and voting someone else instead. Some of my other thoughts:
##Vote: xtfftc | ||
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Nokarot
United States1410 Posts
I ask this purely as a theoretical question, I still think youngminii's very brash smear campaign is awfully suspicious. However, somebody like youngminii may act purely based on emotions rather than calculation, and emotions can often make one look foolish or contradictory, but I personally feel its one thing to contradict yourself and another to lie, especially this early in the game. In my adult life I have said many things that I didn't mean to say or contradicted myself because I let my emotions get the best of me. This may not be the case for youngminii, but I simply bring this up to discuss the LaLiars policies. Who's to say that his smear campaign against Palmar is criminal? Is it enough to vote someone off for contradicting themselves when we are not sure they are criminals, but find them annoying? | ||
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
On November 25 2011 04:02 layabout wrote: + Show Spoiler + On November 25 2011 03:19 Jackal58 wrote: Do all the math you want. One of those 4 I listed are most likely from the scum team. I am going to go watch football and eat to much. I'll be back later. then can you please justify why you think that one of them is scum? For real? Because it's a position that makes them immune to night actions. Because it's a position that allows them to ensure day 1 lynch isn't one of them. Because it's a position that gives them early game leverage. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
I'd really love to see more details from palmar. A lot he's done so far is walls of text with little information. It's just the same over and over again. I really would like to hear how you guys (that's those who run for mayor) are going to hunt for scum instead of all these probability-talk "hey I'm hust X percent whatever" or these best case and worst case scenarios. Yeah they might be right but lust game wherebugs told me to not do that stuff because it's destroying the thread and it's going to increase chaos within town because you'll end up having like 100 different possible set-ups which all are to some point likely or not but it's just way too much if everyone does that. Sooooo, please try to talk less about how awesome your play as X is while your play as Y is not and therefore you're good for Z and start talking about what you want to do. That's still the reason I like bc the most right now. Yeah I stil think that dt plan is stupid and I hope we're not going to do that but he's just keeping it simple and neutral with those little posts he did so far, without bombing this thread. | ||
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xtfftc
United Kingdom2343 Posts
On November 25 2011 04:35 Pigsquirrel wrote: Your base argument seems to be “take the risk, if I am scum, you get a bad scum mayor, if I am town, you get a good town mayor”. Why should be take the risk? I would rather elect somebody who I am fairly confident is town than somebody who is likely scum but supposedly bad at scum. A lot of what you wrote about Palmar makes sense, but you haven't mention an alternative vote. Who is that player you are fairly confident is town that you'd elect? On November 25 2011 04:47 Nokarot wrote: When people enact LaLiars policies, how do they differentiate someone like a youngminii who purposefully lied and a youngminii who may have forgotten what he previously said as a mistake? It's a very good question. If that's a "lie" instead of a sloppy mistake, prplhz should be the next one to be lynched for lying about me (I am still waiting for him to answer to 1 and 2. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On November 25 2011 04:54 Toadesstern wrote: Second what Pigsquirrel said about Palmar. Some of this stuff is nice and some is the reason palmar is only second in my list from earlier although he was able to point out why people think that way nicely with those quotes. I'd really love to see more details from palmar. A lot he's done so far is walls of text with little information. It's just the same over and over again. I really would like to hear how you guys (that's those who run for mayor) are going to hunt for scum instead of all these probability-talk "hey I'm hust X percent whatever" or these best case and worst case scenarios. Yeah they might be right but lust game wherebugs told me to not do that stuff because it's destroying the thread and it's going to increase chaos within town because you'll end up having like 100 different possible set-ups which all are to some point likely or not but it's just way too much if everyone does that. Sooooo, please try to talk less about how awesome your play as X is while your play as Y is not and therefore you're good for Z and start talking about what you want to do. That's still the reason I like bc the most right now. Yeah I stil think that dt plan is stupid and I hope we're not going to do that but he's just keeping it simple and neutral with those little posts he did so far, without bombing this thread. EBWOP/PS just to clearify things: I still think bc's plan is just stupid and got way to much potential to backfire horrible and therefore I'm not going to vote for him as long as this plan exists. However I got to say I find his posting attitude the best. He's at least clear about what he's saying. | ||
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