TL Mafia XLV - Page 57

Erandorr

2283 Posts

October 05 2011 16:41 GMT

#1121

No. How about we catch some real scum?

Let us talk about Jcarl.

Firstly, look at his tone and this lovely poem :

These votes I don't quite understand,
This noobie scurred by vets.
I generally hold my vote and
determine what is best.

Why would you underline that you are bad at this game already? there really is no need to unless you want to make sure that no one takes you seriously and as we all now, Scum loooove to do that. Also notice that he does not have any reason to post , really , since there are so many lurkers in the game.

Other example here:

Isn't PM land more beneficial for town? I think this is only my 2nd or 3rd PM game, so correct me if I'm wrong. Since scum already starts with quite a bit more info than town does, isn't it better to use PM land the best we can? Obviously things need to be posted in the thread, but if people can use their discretion with one person instead of having to say it publicly, isn't that better?

or here :

At this point, yes, he is probably the most likely to flip scum.

Drop has been tunneling on Sev all game, but I'm leaning town on Sev. Usually when I see this happen it's town tunneling town. Definitely not definitive though.

Still wary of Forumite.

This is about as noncommittal as you can get He does not want to give us strong reads because he is scum and wants to hide as much as he can.
Let us compare this to a post from a week ago in LOTR where he was town

On September 20 2011 23:21 jcarlsoniv wrote:

Show nested quote +

These are the things I get from this post:

1. You are intentionally lurking, which hurts town. I hate lurkers, they ruin the game.
2. Maybe DrH dying sucks more for you cuz you've lost your mafia overlord. Must be rough.
3. Your "strongest townreads" consist of at least 2 people that I think could very well be scum.

Show nested quote +

Unacceptable. You want us to just take for granted that you are town, and that we'll understand why later? Absolutely not. It is YOUR job to convince us that you are town. We're not just gonna let you prance around on your merry way and not question you about it, especially after you've been intentionally lurking.

Show nested quote +

Lol? "Sandroba is definitely town, and his vote on me is super accurate, so it should come off of me." How are you even remotely confirmed town. Again, it is not your job to tell us you're town. It's our job to understand and analyze from your posts and activity that you could be town. Oh, but wait, you haven't had any posts or activity worth noting. Guess you aren't confirmed town.

Look at the agressive manner in which he is calling palmar out. Also feel free to look at his posts in general and see just how much he is actually doing there. He is strong, confident and not afraid to give his opinion. Here he just lurks. And look what he says there. He hates lurkers, they ruin the game
What does he do this game? He lurks

Now look at the ways in which he votes. This vote on Nuke is pretty bad. Jcarl says that Nuke is scum because he was wrong with all his reads. That alone is no reason to lynch somebody, and is also a subpar effort for someone like jcarl.

On October 05 2011 04:26 jcarlsoniv wrote:

Show nested quote +

On October 05 2011 04:05 Erandorr wrote:

On October 05 2011 03:56 jcarlsoniv wrote:

On October 02 2011 00:52 risk.nuke wrote:
I don't know what is going on in Pm-land
That said, here is what I currently think,
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kill Incognito
The fact that incogs last post was 15 minutes before prplhz got killed I'm 100% sure he's scum.

Suspicious people
wherebugsgo

I have been suspicious at wbg for a long time.
+ Show Spoiler +

On September 30 2011 20:47 risk.nuke wrote:
If I was going to suspect anyone of beeing gf it would be wbg.
Going through his posting, He's definitely trying to create chaos amongst town, and he's agressive enough to think that if he got checked he would come up townie.

Altough he cleaverly never straight out defended Palmar the more I look through his posts the more I think he's scum.
+ Show Spoiler +

On September 29 2011 10:02 wherebugsgo wrote:
Also Jackal, since you think I'm scum why is your vote still on Palmar?

You know, that shitty start of the game vote that you have yet to change, or, hell, even put in the voting thread? Fakevote much?

Don't have any scumreads? Don't intend to contribute?

+ Show Spoiler +

On September 30 2011 02:05 wherebugsgo wrote:
Palmar looks scummy despite alignment so blah. He's made sense this game to me.

Thus, I still prefer Jackal. If anyone knows something I don't please let me know.

He tries to steal the heat from Palmar thinking that after he got a palmar voter to vote for him instead, he could play the suspicious saint and probably get the town on his side leading to the voters eventually voting for someone else.

+ Show Spoiler +

On September 30 2011 04:34 wherebugsgo wrote:
Sounds like you sheeped and didn't look into any of this yourself.

You basically just admitted to voting Palmar solely because of other people's reasons. Did you question those reasons? Why are you so quick to believe them?

If Palmar is scum you're scum too.

He tries to create some other suspicious people based on shit and nothing just to create more chaos and distrust. He's case on Furumite started building when he realised Palmer was going down and he wanted to try and frame someone with it.

The only thing wbg has on his plus side is he has been hammering Incognito which he has been doing since the start. If Incognito flips blue wbg is most likely scum. If he flips red This doesn't rule wbg out (see spoiler), might be a longshot but It wouldn't be the first time.

*This is HYPOTHETICALLY and IF Incognitos flips red + Show Spoiler +

Wbg started of attacking incognito to give the townies the feeling that those two can not possibly be together. Despite actually going on him like a berserker wbg doesn't give any solid arguments for why incognito was mafia. Possibly expecting veterans to ignore it because of the lack of arguments and still giving achieving the goal giving townies the feeeling of distrust between wbg and incognito.
He was probably hoping incognitos last plan would save Incognito, when it backfired wbg realise they have to give incognito up

tnkted
Short time after my post against wbg, he posts this + Show Spoiler +

On September 30 2011 23:28 tnkted wrote:
WBG is town. I bring this information from PM land. Plz don't shoot him.

and this + Show Spoiler +

On September 30 2011 23:34 tnkted wrote:
PM me for questions, back to class

I'm a bit puzzled to why I should let a suspicous person be, and since he asked me to. I pm tnktd and ask him why I should drop wbg. In his reply I got no answer from tnktd. I don't understand why he would not tell me why wbg is not mafia since he seems to know that for certainty. As said earlier the first priority of all townies should be to establish their innocence so why? (it's before the first night is over so roles should be irrelevant. Instead he attempts to swing the conversation into me giving him my scumreads. I don't answer while thinking about what to read out of it and what to reply. Shortly after I get another pm, this time from wbg asking the same thing. Me and wbg haven't had any prior private contact and I get scumchills all up my spine.

Other notes
I don't think Curu is scum but the only person I would consider safe is Mig
The person to pm me before speaking in irc was dropbear.

In this post, the people he tags as scum have flipped town. Only person yet to flip is WBG, but WBG's play this game looks like his town play, so I'm very inclined to believe WBG is town as well.

##vote risk.nuke

Thanks for your read

Is your whole argument that he was wrong with everything he said? And from your point of view he would be the most certain to flip scum today, yes? Do you have anything on Dropbear, Sevryn and Forumite?

At this point, yes, he is probably the most likely to flip scum.

Drop has been tunneling on Sev all game, but I'm leaning town on Sev. Usually when I see this happen it's town tunneling town. Definitely not definitive though.

Still wary of Forumite.

Incog got suspicious of both Jcarl and me for the timing of our votes on Palmar. His was even worse than mine. He jumped on the wagon at a very convinient time, not having said anything about the lynch beforehand at the typical "Lets bus this guy " time(3rd or 4th vote)

He tried to softly defend incognito, but caved in after talking to mig. That does not sound like him trying to have doubts, thats him trying to get some towncred on the way.

I want to talk quickly about why I want to lynch jcarl instead of forumite or sinani. Those 2 are famous for being pretty big derps as town (sorry) Jcarl , on the other hand, has proven that he can play rather well and has done nothing of the sort in this game

Let us sum this up,

1.He hates lurkers and lurks hardcore in this game
2.His votes are very convinient and let him keep a low profile
3.As town he has shown to be agressive and confident, in this he tries to be a little noobie who is 4.not sure about anything
5.He does not contribute at all

Guess what that means.

Jcarl is SCUM

## Vote Jcarl

wherebugsgo

Japan10647 Posts

October 05 2011 16:44 GMT

#1122

Erandor have you not been reading the PMs I've sent you?

Jesus jcarl is not scum you thickhead

Erandorr

2283 Posts

October 05 2011 16:51 GMT

#1123

Yes, I did read those. If you have something against my case please post it or PM it instead of doing something like this. Also read my post before you say anything okay?

wherebugsgo

Japan10647 Posts

October 05 2011 17:06 GMT

#1124

I already read it.

It makes no sense to go for jcarl with 5 hours remaining in the day. Use your head, it doesn't even matter if he's scum, there's no way we can get 7 votes on him in that short amount of time.

All of these arguments have been brought up before and they're not valid IMO. besides, why would we lynch him when we have 3 better players to lynch?

Sinani, who does nothing then votes DB for no reason, tying himself to Sevryn
Sevryn, who does marginally more than nothing but is tied to both sinani and Forumite by way of PM and vote
Forumite, who is confirmed to be a liar.

So now what gave you the bright idea to split our vote even more when lynch is in less than 5 hours?

Erandorr

2283 Posts

October 05 2011 17:13 GMT

#1125

Bugs, I want to lynch scum.

Sinani always plays like this. Look at his past games. He is really really bad. He could be scum, but I think he might as well get shot by one of our brave vigilantes.
Sev is also a giant derp townie. Completely unreadable. You have played with those guys, too , so you could start using your brain at some point, yes?
Mig gave me some intel on Forumite which tells me that it would be a great idea to keep him around.

Now please stop playing like sinani and tell my why you think my case is bad, with all the combinations of arguments i gave here. "I dont like it" is not a valuable contribution. If you read the logs again, notice how Jcarl just tell you he is really bad and does not know anything. Now do me a favor and look at LOTR and how he posts there.

wherebugsgo

Japan10647 Posts

October 05 2011 17:20 GMT

#1126

Dude you can use your same argument against you.

Look at jcarl's play in Resurrection. It is very similar here to how it was there; he was unsure of everything and didn't feel confident in his reads.

Jcarl is not scum. He doesn't talk like scum. He's not afraid of giving out reads. He's not afraid to go against the majority lynch. Idk how you actually managed to twist his convo with Mig the way you did, but the way I saw him discuss things with both Incog and with Mig about Incog certainly seemed like a townie trying to get information,

As for Sevryn and Sinani neither of them derps THIS hard. Even in MLP when we pushed sinani he was at least responding. Hell this happened in SMG, despite being a total troll he at least posted something.

Finally, we are NOT going to get 7 votes on jcarl. This town is too incompetent to be able to consolidate it's votes, we're not about to kill jcarl just because one player thinks he's a better lynch than 3 others.

On that note, if jcarl really is scum who is he connected to? There have to be two other scum, it can't just be jcarl.

Erandorr

2283 Posts

October 05 2011 17:21 GMT

#1127

Just so everyone gets it.
We could go for scummy lurkers who are scummy lurkers every game and generally suck, or we could go for a Vet who plays like a scummy lurker after being very active last week in LOTR.

wherebugsgo

Japan10647 Posts

October 05 2011 17:23 GMT

#1128

This is a PM GAME.

Everyone except me would qualify as a scummy lurker at this point to be honest with you. How does your argument not apply to DB, or Nisani, or you? DB doesn't normally lurk this hard. Guess he's scum too right?

You're ignoring the mountains of PM evidence I sent you over the last day. Don't throw it into the fire now.

wherebugsgo

Japan10647 Posts

October 05 2011 17:24 GMT

#1129

O supersoft is lurking harder than normal too!

Is he scum as well? Come on Erandorr you can't really believe this when his meta isn't even consistent..

DropBear

Australia4273 Posts

October 05 2011 17:37 GMT

#1130

I'm busy guys, still waiting on the replacement I requested.

Nothing has changed on sevryn, iv been calling it for days now.

Erandorr

2283 Posts

October 05 2011 17:39 GMT

#1131

Okay,

+ Show Spoiler +

Original Message From wherebugsgo:
[16:39] <wherebugsgo> aight
[16:39] <wherebugsgo> you were gonna send me logs right?
[16:39] <jcarlsoniv_> of?
[16:39] <wherebugsgo> your convos with Mig/Curu I believe
[16:39] <jcarlsoniv_> i hadn't spoken with curu
[16:40] <wherebugsgo> just Mig?
[16:40] <jcarlsoniv_> but yeah, i can send you what i spoke to mig about
[16:40] <wherebugsgo> k sounds good
[16:40] <wherebugsgo> it's always almost impossible to tell whether players had spoken to Curu or not lol
[16:40] <jcarlsoniv_> haha
[16:40] <wherebugsgo> Curu would always talk to me about things that made it sound like he'd talked to the players
[16:40] <wherebugsgo> rather than hearing through Mig
[16:41] <wherebugsgo> anyway he mentioned he thought you were town based on an argument you had with Mig over whether Incog is town
[16:41] <jcarlsoniv_> i didn't have an argument with mig
[16:41] <jcarlsoniv_> more like
[16:41] <jcarlsoniv_> a very civil discussion
[16:41] <jcarlsoniv_> lol
[16:41] <wherebugsgo> lol
[16:43] <jcarlsoniv_> k, i sent what i spoke to mig about
[16:44] <jcarlsoniv_> learn anything from risk.nuke?
[16:45] <wherebugsgo> to be honest no
[16:45] <wherebugsgo> I can send you the log of our convo if you want
[16:45] <jcarlsoniv_> yeah, plz
[16:48] <wherebugsgo> also
[16:48] <wherebugsgo> I've been talking to sevryn
[16:48] <wherebugsgo> really can't tell if he's town or mafia either
[16:50] <jcarlsoniv_> it's risk's first game? O_o
[16:50] <wherebugsgo> yes
[16:50] <wherebugsgo> apparently
[16:51] <wherebugsgo> now keeping that in mind
[16:51] <wherebugsgo> sevryn said, don't look into it too much
[16:51] <wherebugsgo> when I told sevryn it is risk's first game
[16:51] <jcarlsoniv_> ?
[16:51] <jcarlsoniv_> teh fack
[16:51] <wherebugsgo> yeah...lol
[16:51] <wherebugsgo> IMO
[16:51] <wherebugsgo> sevryn is scumbuddies with Forumite
[16:51] <wherebugsgo> and probably sinani
[16:51] <wherebugsgo> but not 100% on that
[16:51] <wherebugsgo> for now
[16:51] <wherebugsgo> I'm going to leave my vote on risk
[16:52] <wherebugsgo> and see if sinani shows up and votes him
[16:52] <jcarlsoniv_> yeah i'd like to see how risk flips
[16:52] <wherebugsgo> you want to actually lynch him?
[16:52] <jcarlsoniv_> i think it being his first game is definitely something we SHOULD take into consideration
[16:52] <wherebugsgo> exactly
[16:52] <wherebugsgo> I mean, he's played like it's his first game
[16:52] <wherebugsgo> for sure
[16:52] <jcarlsoniv_> "is that scummy?" from your logs with him?
[16:52] <wherebugsgo> lol
[16:52] <jcarlsoniv_> why the hell
[16:52] <wherebugsgo> I felt like saying
[16:52] <wherebugsgo> why yes
[16:52] <wherebugsgo> yes it is
[16:52] <wherebugsgo> LOL
[16:53] <jcarlsoniv_> hahahaha
[16:53] <wherebugsgo> but yeah anyway
[16:53] <wherebugsgo> if sevryn is not scum
[16:53] <wherebugsgo> that leaves one of forumite/sinani/dropbear/xt to be the last two
[16:54] <wherebugsgo> err two of rather
[16:54] <jcarlsoniv_> that makes sense
[16:55] <jcarlsoniv_> how do you plan on finding out if sev is scum? lol
[16:55] <wherebugsgo> I don't believe
[16:55] <wherebugsgo> uhh
[16:55] <wherebugsgo> yeah good question
[16:55] <wherebugsgo> idk
[16:55] <jcarlsoniv_> do we have a pyro?
[16:55] <wherebugsgo> doubt it
[16:55] <wherebugsgo> not that I know of, anyway
[16:55] <jcarlsoniv_> ~_~
[16:55] <wherebugsgo> I mean, you're not anything ,are you?
[16:55] <jcarlsoniv_> nah
[16:55] <jcarlsoniv_> unfortunately
[16:55] <wherebugsgo> yeah same here lol
[16:55] <wherebugsgo> we lost our medic
[16:56] <jcarlsoniv_> i think
[16:56] <wherebugsgo> and he was probably the only one
[16:56] <jcarlsoniv_> people see how i play in past games
[16:56] <jcarlsoniv_> and they're like
[16:56] <jcarlsoniv_> WOW FUCK THAT HE'S NOT GETTING SHIT
[16:56] <wherebugsgo> loool
[16:56] <wherebugsgo> nah man
[16:56] <wherebugsgo> you're a pretty good player IMO
[16:56] <jcarlsoniv_> i used to be better
[16:56] <wherebugsgo> I can tell you're town
[16:56] <jcarlsoniv_> got real rusty after my ~6 month hiatus
[16:56] <wherebugsgo> and if you're scum you're playing a damn fantastic game
[16:57] <wherebugsgo> yeah maybe that's what happened to incog lol
[16:57] <wherebugsgo> his mind was just not in it
[16:57] <jcarlsoniv_> has it been a while for him?
[16:57] <wherebugsgo> idk I know he hasn't played recently
[16:57] <jcarlsoniv_> gotcha
[16:57] <wherebugsgo> none of the super vets have
[16:58] <jcarlsoniv_> i gotta say though
[16:58] <jcarlsoniv_> i was pretty disappointed with the play of the "super vets" this game
[16:58] <wherebugsgo> rofl
[16:58] <wherebugsgo> only incog is a legendary vet I think
[16:58] <wherebugsgo> he just died due to inactivity
[16:58] <jcarlsoniv_> i was expecting to be carried like you carried me in resurrection xD
[16:58] <wherebugsgo> probably RL shit
[16:58] <wherebugsgo> oh dude resurrection
[16:58] <wherebugsgo> lol I loved that setup
[16:58] <wherebugsgo> so baller
[16:58] <jcarlsoniv_> it was definitely
[16:58] <jcarlsoniv_> NOT
[16:58] <jcarlsoniv_> the game
[16:58] <jcarlsoniv_> to come back with
[16:59] <wherebugsgo> LOL
[16:59] <wherebugsgo> no flip hahaha
[16:59] <jcarlsoniv_> srsly
[16:59] <wherebugsgo> tbh I like that better
[16:59] <jcarlsoniv_> first no flip game i ever played
[16:59] <jcarlsoniv_> psh i don't
[16:59] <wherebugsgo> I think you can make cool things happen with it
[16:59] <jcarlsoniv_> i hate not learning things after a lynch
[16:59] <wherebugsgo> like all of it
[16:59] <wherebugsgo> is on scumhunting lol
[16:59] <jcarlsoniv_> yeah
[16:59] <jcarlsoniv_> see
[16:59] <jcarlsoniv_> i'm bad at that
[16:59] <wherebugsgo> meh
[16:59] <jcarlsoniv_> lol
[16:59] <wherebugsgo> have some confidence lol
[16:59] <jcarlsoniv_> yah
[16:59] <wherebugsgo> IMO even if you're not on the right track
[16:59] <wherebugsgo> I think you can tell when something's wrong
[16:59] <wherebugsgo> like honestl
[16:59] <wherebugsgo> incog was such an easy lynch
[17:00] <wherebugsgo> palmar was too. Who defended him?
[17:00] <jcarlsoniv_> did anyone?
[17:00] <wherebugsgo> me, forumite, incog
[17:00] <wherebugsgo> lol
[17:00] <jcarlsoniv_> xD
[17:00] <wherebugsgo> forumite never did it directly
[17:00] <jcarlsoniv_> i knew palmar was an easy lynch
[17:00] <wherebugsgo> he just kept saying "I don't like wbg/jackal lynch I'd prefer Curu/Palmar and I lean Curu"
[17:00] <wherebugsgo> over and over
[17:00] <wherebugsgo> just never quantified his statements
[17:00] <jcarlsoniv_> i may have been a bit bitter with him over LOTR still haha
[17:00] <wherebugsgo> just kept saying he liked Curu better
[17:01] <wherebugsgo> lawl Palmar
[17:01] <wherebugsgo> idk why he hates scum
[17:01] <wherebugsgo> he just rolled over and died
[17:01] <wherebugsgo> as the fuckin pyro
[17:01] <wherebugsgo> anyway
[17:01] <wherebugsgo> let's try to determine
[17:01] <jcarlsoniv_> [1:37:48 PM] risk.nuke: It just looked so dire with mig getting killed and then curu got himself modkilled
[17:01] <wherebugsgo> this shit
[17:01] <jcarlsoniv_> oh wow
[17:01] <jcarlsoniv_> that didn't work at all
[17:01] <jcarlsoniv_> h/o
[17:01] <jcarlsoniv_> lol
[17:02] <jcarlsoniv_> If you're town I can't let you belive I'm mafia, we can't afford it.
[17:02] <jcarlsoniv_> lol
[17:02] <jcarlsoniv_> wut is that
[17:04] <wherebugsgo> lawl
[17:04] <wherebugsgo> alright
[17:04] <wherebugsgo> you think he's noob town or noob scum?
[17:05] <jcarlsoniv_> he's either scum or REALLY FUCKING NOOB town
[17:05] <jcarlsoniv_> like
[17:05] <jcarlsoniv_> a lot of what he's saying is noob town
[17:05] <wherebugsgo> LOL
[17:05] <jcarlsoniv_> but there are little things in there
[17:05] <jcarlsoniv_> that are like
[17:05] <jcarlsoniv_> "why would he say that if he's town"
[17:05] <wherebugsgo> yes, precisely
[17:05] <wherebugsgo> now did you notice anything weird about the timestamps?
[17:06] <jcarlsoniv_> uh not really?
[17:06] <jcarlsoniv_> convo took 2.5 hours?
[17:06] <wherebugsgo> not a long convo, is it?
[17:06] <wherebugsgo> it's about as long as the one we've had
[17:06] <wherebugsgo> in roughly 25
[17:07] <jcarlsoniv_> why was that?
[17:07] <jcarlsoniv_> he take a long time to respond to everything?
[17:07] <wherebugsgo> indeed
[17:07] <wherebugsgo> this was on skype
[17:07] <wherebugsgo> I went back and replaced his name and my name with our s/ns
[17:07] <wherebugsgo> but otherwise it's unchanged
[17:07] <wherebugsgo> the timestamps
[17:07] <wherebugsgo> if you notice
[17:07] <wherebugsgo> sometimes he takes as long as 6 minutes to respond
[17:07] <wherebugsgo> actually I think the longest gap was 10
[17:07] <wherebugsgo> and then at one point I left cause I was impatient lol
[17:08] <wherebugsgo> and came back 10 minutes later
[17:08] <jcarlsoniv_> glad that's not suspicious or anything
[17:08] <wherebugsgo> also since skype allows you to see the person typing
[17:08] <wherebugsgo> he would type type type
[17:08] <wherebugsgo> then erase it all
[17:08] <wherebugsgo> then just sit there
[17:08] <jcarlsoniv_> yeah i saw you say something about it
[17:08] <jcarlsoniv_> like he was over cautious about what he was saying
[17:08] <wherebugsgo> yeah exactly
[17:08] <wherebugsgo> I have no idea why
[17:08] <wherebugsgo> I talked to kenpachi
[17:09] <wherebugsgo> and he was like yeah I do that too, but I don't spend five minutes replying
[17:09] <wherebugsgo> and I was in total agreement...everyone erases a bit
[17:09] <wherebugsgo> but no one does that
[17:09] <jcarlsoniv_> lol
[17:09] <jcarlsoniv_> i assume that's why you'd use skype over this though?
[17:10] <jcarlsoniv_> at least, that's a strong reason
[17:10] <wherebugsgo> nah he preferred skype lol
[17:10] <wherebugsgo> tbh with you I never considered that until this guy did it
[17:11] <jcarlsoniv_> hah
[17:11] <wherebugsgo> but even so he has no opinions
[17:11] <jcarlsoniv_> yeah
[17:11] <jcarlsoniv_> even new people have opinions
[17:11] <jcarlsoniv_> albeit, usually wrong ones
[17:11] <wherebugsgo> right
[17:11] <wherebugsgo> Sevryn has a few opinions
[17:11] <wherebugsgo> but he has no opinion on Forumite
[17:11] <wherebugsgo> which is really weird
[17:11] <jcarlsoniv_> yeah, i'm about to read that log
[17:11] <wherebugsgo> yeah read it and lemme know what you think, I'll brb
[17:16] <jcarlsoniv_> kinda weird how he avoided forumite til you pressed it
[17:17] <wherebugsgo> yep
[17:17] <wherebugsgo> he was fine with sinani
[17:17] <wherebugsgo> he was like "oh wat sinani's in the game wtf?"
[17:17] <jcarlsoniv_> yah
[17:17] <wherebugsgo> problem is he voted for risk lol
[17:18] <wherebugsgo> so I guess the solution is to lynch forumite today
[17:18] <wherebugsgo> but some people aren't willing to do that today
[17:18] <wherebugsgo> and rather would wait to see if he lives till tomorrow
[17:18] <jcarlsoniv_> well
[17:18] <jcarlsoniv_> hmm
[17:18] <jcarlsoniv_> if he is blue and we lynch him
[17:18] <jcarlsoniv_> that really really sucks
[17:18] <wherebugsgo> yeah that's exactly why people are war
[17:18] <wherebugsgo> *wary
[17:19] <jcarlsoniv_> if he lives til tomorrow, we get at least one more night with him
[17:19] <wherebugsgo> to me he's been scum all game so I don't give a shit
[17:19] <jcarlsoniv_> assuming he's blue
[17:19] <jcarlsoniv_> but yeah, he's been scummy to me too
[17:19] <wherebugsgo> yeah assuming he's blue he'll get shot
[17:19] <wherebugsgo> by the mafia
[17:19] <wherebugsgo> for being alive 3 nights in a row
[17:19] <wherebugsgo> when it was obvious he wasn't VT
[17:19] <jcarlsoniv_> maybe they're just derps
[17:19] <wherebugsgo> no way
[17:19] <wherebugsgo> well
[17:19] <jcarlsoniv_> and are happier just killing VTs
[17:19] <wherebugsgo> okay yeah I guess that's possible lol
[17:19] <jcarlsoniv_> lol
[17:19] <wherebugsgo> they shot a bunch of mutes
[17:19] <wherebugsgo> and the only remaining players in the game
[17:19] <wherebugsgo> are pretty much derps
[17:19] <wherebugsgo> so yeah
[17:19] <wherebugsgo> wtf
[17:20] <jcarlsoniv_> true
[17:20] <jcarlsoniv_> also
[17:20] <wherebugsgo> wtf lol so we can't even assume that
[17:20] <jcarlsoniv_> you told sev i'm only a null???
[17:20] <jcarlsoniv_> *cry*
[17:20] <wherebugsgo> LOL
[17:20] <jcarlsoniv_> that hurts
[17:20] <wherebugsgo> indeed
[17:20] <wherebugsgo> don't worry
[17:20] <wherebugsgo> not gonna tell sevryn shit
[17:20] <jcarlsoniv_> haha
[17:20] <wherebugsgo> I don't want my reads leaking to scum
[17:20] <wherebugsgo> wink wink
[17:20] <jcarlsoniv_> wink wink nudge nudge
[17:20] <wherebugsgo> slap
[17:20] <jcarlsoniv_> =(
[17:20] <wherebugsgo> oh I thought you liked slaps
[17:20] <wherebugsgo> dammit
[17:20] <jcarlsoniv_> no
[17:21] <jcarlsoniv_> that was you
[17:21] <wherebugsgo> oh right
[17:21] <wherebugsgo> alright so we have sev/risk covered
[17:21] <wherebugsgo> as in we don't fucking know what they are
[17:21] <jcarlsoniv_> rofl
[17:21] <jcarlsoniv_> feels like
[17:21] <jcarlsoniv_> that's a common theme
[17:21] <wherebugsgo> yeah
[17:21] <wherebugsgo> this game is absolute trash
[17:21] <jcarlsoniv_> too many nulls
[17:21] <wherebugsgo> I got warned for posting too much in the thread
[17:21] <wherebugsgo> by kurumi loll
[17:21] <jcarlsoniv_> i saw that
[17:22] <jcarlsoniv_> kurumi real troll
[17:22] <jcarlsoniv_> on scum team
[17:22] <wherebugsgo> lawl
[17:22] <wherebugsgo> bah
[17:22] <jcarlsoniv_> doesn't want you posting, modkills curu lol
[17:22] <wherebugsgo> both modkills were bs IMO
[17:22] <jcarlsoniv_> what was the other one?
[17:22] <wherebugsgo> tnkted
[17:22] <wherebugsgo> for not voting in the voting thread
[17:22] <jcarlsoniv_> oh
[17:22] <jcarlsoniv_> well
[17:22] <jcarlsoniv_> tbh
[17:22] <jcarlsoniv_> if i were to host a game, i'd be super strict
[17:22] <jcarlsoniv_> like, no warnings for edits and shit
[17:22] <wherebugsgo> yeah I can see the tnkted one but
[17:23] <jcarlsoniv_> cuz people should know by now
[17:23] <wherebugsgo> true true
[17:23] <jcarlsoniv_> but yeah, the curu one sucks
[17:23] <jcarlsoniv_> i mean, i guess it's fair
[17:23] <jcarlsoniv_> but really fucks us
[17:23] <wherebugsgo> curu actually thought the tnkted modkill was bs lol
[17:23] <wherebugsgo> and his was okay
[17:23] <jcarlsoniv_> haha
[17:23] <wherebugsgo> but w/e
[17:23] <wherebugsgo> enough hosting discussion
[17:23] <jcarlsoniv_> dude
[17:23] <jcarlsoniv_> we're like
[17:23] <jcarlsoniv_> super ADD
[17:23] <wherebugsgo> loool
[17:24] <jcarlsoniv_> now
[17:24] <jcarlsoniv_> dropbear
[17:24] <wherebugsgo> hey man this has been one of the most productive PMs I've had
[17:24] <wherebugsgo> DB needs to show up
[17:24] <wherebugsgo> or I want him dead
[17:24] <jcarlsoniv_> i agree
[17:24] <jcarlsoniv_> but i don't think it should happen now
[17:24] <jcarlsoniv_> i think we need to watch him closely
[17:24] <jcarlsoniv_> because
[17:24] <jcarlsoniv_> sev is right that DB has been tunneling
[17:24] <jcarlsoniv_> but
[17:24] <jcarlsoniv_> more often than not
[17:24] <jcarlsoniv_> a tunnel this hard is town on town
[17:24] <wherebugsgo> town on town action
[17:25] <wherebugsgo> aight so let's assume they're both town
[17:25] <wherebugsgo> that leaves us with four
[17:25] <wherebugsgo> sinani risk forumite xt
[17:25] <wherebugsgo> sinani/xt scum or not?
[17:25] <jcarlsoniv_> god idk
[17:25] <wherebugsgo> I mean in this case with this assumption one of them has to be
[17:25] <jcarlsoniv_> i'm not sure what to make of NC's display
[17:26] <wherebugsgo> yeah so I'ma throw another null wrench into the mix
[17:26] <jcarlsoniv_> gun to head
[17:26] <wherebugsgo> GM's rage seemed to be genuine
[17:26] <jcarlsoniv_> out of those two
[17:26] <jcarlsoniv_> i'd say sinani
[17:26] <wherebugsgo> okay I agree
[17:26] <jcarlsoniv_> but, again, not much to go on
[17:26] <wherebugsgo> xt I think is town
[17:26] <wherebugsgo> because he responded to me in a townie fashion earlier
[17:26] <wherebugsgo> when I asked him for his reads
[17:26] <jcarlsoniv_> k
[17:26] <wherebugsgo> like
[17:26] <wherebugsgo> aggressive townie fashion
[17:26] <wherebugsgo> however the fact that he had no reads
[17:26] <jcarlsoniv_> you'd know something about that, eh?
[17:27] <wherebugsgo> lol
[17:27] <wherebugsgo> he had no reads though. and like...he seemed to lack interest
[17:27] <wherebugsgo> not sure what to pick up on that but I told him to get me reads within 23 hours
[17:27] <wherebugsgo> before lynch basically
[17:27] <wherebugsgo> we can't lynch him today anyway
[17:27] <wherebugsgo> it'd be dumb
[17:27] <jcarlsoniv_> yah
[17:27] <jcarlsoniv_> i can imagine being a replacement sucks
[17:27] <wherebugsgo> yeah I agree
[17:28] <wherebugsgo> reading all the shit me incog and NC wrote lol
[17:28] <wherebugsgo> but anyway he seemed to be putting in effort in reading it
[17:28] <wherebugsgo> so I've actually been leaning green on him
[17:28] <wherebugsgo> sinani is absolutely null again
[17:28] <jcarlsoniv_> yeh
[17:29] <jcarlsoniv_> le sigh
[17:29] <wherebugsgo> I'm curious though
[17:29] <wherebugsgo> if we could get
[17:29] <wherebugsgo> DB and Sevryn
[17:29] <wherebugsgo> in the same IRC chat
[17:29] <wherebugsgo> and see what they start saying lol
[17:29] <jcarlsoniv_> idk
[17:29] <jcarlsoniv_> might be
[17:29] <jcarlsoniv_> a really quiet chat room
[17:29] <wherebugsgo> lol
[17:29] <wherebugsgo> I'm going to post this in the thread
[17:29] <wherebugsgo> that they should PM me
[17:31] <jcarlsoniv_> now, kenpachi accuses me and supersoft
[17:31] <jcarlsoniv_> forumite soft defends
[17:31] <jcarlsoniv_> what do you make of that
[17:32] <wherebugsgo> kenpachi accusing two townies
[17:32] <wherebugsgo> Forumite jumping on the opportunity to mislynch
[17:32] <wherebugsgo> kenpachi is just careless
[17:32] <jcarlsoniv_> now that you say that
[17:32] <jcarlsoniv_> i vaguely remember that from like a year ago
[17:33] <wherebugsgo> about kenpachi?
[17:33] <jcarlsoniv_> yeh
[17:33] <wherebugsgo> oh lol
[17:33] <wherebugsgo> well
[17:33] <wherebugsgo> I've only played with him twice
[17:33] <wherebugsgo> here and resurrection
[17:33] <wherebugsgo> not much difference tbh
[17:33] <wherebugsgo> I get a townie vibe from him in PMs
[17:33] <wherebugsgo> but you should talk to him
[17:33] <wherebugsgo> you should talk to all these players actually
[17:33] <wherebugsgo> don't mention I sent you
[17:33] <jcarlsoniv_> yeah, i'll see what i can find out
[17:34] <jcarlsoniv_> although, if kenpachi thinks i'm scum
[17:34] <jcarlsoniv_> he may not want to say anything at all
[17:34] <wherebugsgo> eh generally
[17:34] <wherebugsgo> the way you talk to someone will convince them of you being scum or town
[17:34] <wherebugsgo> so I'm sure if you just talk to him like we've talked it'll be fine
[17:34] <jcarlsoniv_> nah man
[17:34] <jcarlsoniv_> imma be like
[17:35] <jcarlsoniv_> YO Y U THINK I SCUM
[17:35] <wherebugsgo> LOL
[17:35] <wherebugsgo> aight so
[17:35] <wherebugsgo> this is what I'm gonna do
[17:35] <wherebugsgo> I'm gonna make a spreadsheet
[17:35] <wherebugsgo> with numbers and shit
[17:35] <wherebugsgo> of who thinks who is scum
[17:35] <jcarlsoniv_> numbers??? no wai
[17:35] <wherebugsgo> then maybe we can identify our mafia that way
[17:35] <wherebugsgo> yeah man numbers and colors and shit
[17:35] <jcarlsoniv_> why don't you make it a google doc
[17:35] <wherebugsgo> yeah I will
[17:35] <jcarlsoniv_> ok
[17:36] <wherebugsgo> oh wtf
[17:36] <wherebugsgo> I pressed "create spreedsheet"
[17:36] <wherebugsgo> and it did nothing
[17:36] <jcarlsoniv_> you fail the internets
[17:37] <wherebugsgo> what the fak
[17:37] <wherebugsgo> lol wtf
[17:37] <wherebugsgo> it's seriously not doing anything
[17:37] <wherebugsgo> tried it in chrome and firefox
[17:38] <jcarlsoniv_> T_T
[17:38] <jcarlsoniv_> lemme try
[17:38] <jcarlsoniv_> on fucking IE cuz i'm on a library comp
[17:38] <wherebugsgo> lol

+ Show Spoiler +

Original Message From wherebugsgo:
[17:49] <wherebugsgo___> well that was dumb
[17:49] <wherebugsgo___> got booted off chrome somehow
[17:49] == jcarlsoniv_ [webchat@198.7.239.20]
[17:49] == realname : http://webchat.quakenet.org
[17:49] == channels : #loonybin
[17:49] == server : *.quakenet.org [QuakeNet IRC Server]
[17:49] == End of WHOIS
[17:50] <jcarlsoniv_> rofl
[17:50] <jcarlsoniv_> you have
[17:50] <jcarlsoniv_> so many underscores
[17:50] <wherebugsgo___> yeah lol
[17:51] <wherebugsgo___> I figured out what was wrong with the thing
[17:51] <wherebugsgo___> it's google's "new look" in the doc page
[17:51] <wherebugsgo___> switched it to classic and it worked lol
[17:51] <jcarlsoniv_> lol k
[17:51] <jcarlsoniv_> so you're making it?
[17:52] <wherebugsgo___> indeed will start now
[17:52] <wherebugsgo___> okay
[17:52] <wherebugsgo___> so
[17:52] <wherebugsgo___> most likely scum to least likely for you?
[17:52] <wherebugsgo___> remaining 12 players:
[17:52] <wherebugsgo___> 2. sinani206 3. risk.nuke 4. jcarlsoniv 5. wherebugsgo 7. Nisani201 8. Erandorr 9. NotChezinu/Replaced by xtffc 13. Kenpachi 14. DropBear 15. Forumite 19. supersoft 20. Sevryn
[17:53] <jcarlsoniv_> uhhhhh
[17:53] <jcarlsoniv_> this is like a fucking IQ test...
[17:54] <wherebugsgo___> lawl
[17:54] <wherebugsgo___> all of them
[17:54] <wherebugsgo___> are below 80
[17:54] <jcarlsoniv_> below 80 what?
[17:54] <wherebugsgo___> IQ
[17:54] <wherebugsgo___> so basically
[17:54] <wherebugsgo___> pick out the dumb townies
[17:54] <wherebugsgo___> from the dumb scum game
[17:54] <wherebugsgo___> that's what this is hahaha
[17:55] <jcarlsoniv_> lovely
[17:56] <jcarlsoniv_> gonna take a minute, doing hw at the same time haha
[17:57] <wherebugsgo___> k sounds good
[17:57] <wherebugsgo___> take your time no rush
[18:04] <jcarlsoniv_> forumite/risknuke, sinani, DB, xtffc, supersoft, Sev, Kenpachi, Erandorr, nisani, WBG/jcarl
[18:04] <jcarlsoniv_> i guess
[18:04] <wherebugsgo___> aight
[18:05] <wherebugsgo___> I'll put that in
[18:05] <wherebugsgo___> at what point
[18:05] <wherebugsgo___> do you cross from unsure
[18:05] <wherebugsgo___> to town
[18:05] <jcarlsoniv_> at WBG/jcarl
[18:05] <jcarlsoniv_> lol
[18:05] <jcarlsoniv_> jk
[18:05] <jcarlsoniv_> uhhh
[18:05] <wherebugsgo___> sev/ken or xt/super
[18:05] <jcarlsoniv_> probably somewhere between kenpachi and erandorr
[18:06] <wherebugsgo___> ah okay
[18:06] <jcarlsoniv_> actually, switch kenpachi and erandorr, i don't really have much on erandorr
[18:06] <wherebugsgo___> alright
[18:06] <wherebugsgo___> so
[18:06] <wherebugsgo___> erandor and below
[18:06] <wherebugsgo___> is unsure
[18:06] <wherebugsgo___> and risk/forumite is scum
[18:07] <jcarlsoniv_> how far is that from your list?
[18:07] <wherebugsgo___> mmm
[18:07] <wherebugsgo___> not terribly far but I think I have more info than you do
[18:08] <wherebugsgo___> basically based on what Curu and Mig told me
[18:08] <wherebugsgo___> unfortunately they didn't give me reasons
[18:08] <wherebugsgo___> but I'm sure they had them
[18:08] <wherebugsgo___> you, me, kenpachi, super, erandor, nisani are all town
[18:08] <wherebugsgo___> like above 90% on all of you
[18:08] <wherebugsgo___> unfortunately erandor is mute but I have to say his posting in the thread is not scummy at all
[18:09] <jcarlsoniv_> yeah that's why i'm unsure on erandorr
[18:09] <wherebugsgo___> so basically out of these I'd rank kenpachi as the lowest on being sure because he said you and super are scum for no reason
[18:09] <wherebugsgo___> but I'm still like 90 on him
[18:10] <wherebugsgo___> then we get into
[18:10] <wherebugsgo___> xt/DB/sev/sinani
[18:10] <wherebugsgo___> who are all derp and could be either
[18:10] <wherebugsgo___> then forumite/risk of whom I think forumite is 95% scum and risk who is like 70% lol
[18:11] <wherebugsgo___> but out of these I'd rank xt the highest, closest to town
[18:11] <wherebugsgo___> then DB/sev are equal
[18:11] <wherebugsgo___> sinani third to last and then risk/forumite
[18:11] <jcarlsoniv_> yeah i can jump on board with that
[18:13] <wherebugsgo___> yeah
[18:13] <wherebugsgo___> it comes down to determining which FoSes match
[18:13] <wherebugsgo___> the DB/sev thing is like???
[18:13] <wherebugsgo___> probably both retard town
[18:13] <jcarlsoniv_> and we need to see who defends whom
[18:13] <wherebugsgo___> yeah exactly
[18:13] <jcarlsoniv_> and who condemns whom
[18:15] <wherebugsgo___> did you notice
[18:15] <wherebugsgo___> sevryn glossed over sinani?
[18:15] <wherebugsgo___> AND forumite
[18:15] <wherebugsgo___> he asked if sinani was playing
[18:15] <wherebugsgo___> but he didn't answer my question
[18:15] <wherebugsgo___> he answered it about Forumite when I pressed the issue
[18:16] <wherebugsgo___> but he gave me no opinion about sinani
[18:16] <jcarlsoniv_> yeah i did
[18:16] <jcarlsoniv_> i keep getting mixed up with nisani and sinani personally lol
[18:16] <wherebugsgo___> lol
[18:16] <wherebugsgo___> nisani is town
[18:16] <wherebugsgo___> I can almost guarantee that
[18:17] <jcarlsoniv_> lol k
[18:17] <wherebugsgo___> as for sinani he could be on the moon and I wouldn't know
[18:18] <jcarlsoniv_> yah
[18:18] <jcarlsoniv_> we need to pressure the lurkers
[18:18] <jcarlsoniv_> weird for me to say cuz i'm kinda one of them
[18:18] <jcarlsoniv_> at least
[18:18] <jcarlsoniv_> i'm a thread lurker
[18:18] <wherebugsgo___> yeah but you're not a PM lurker
[18:18] <wherebugsgo___> not like DB
[18:18] <wherebugsgo___> who is both
[18:19] <wherebugsgo___> or sinani
[18:19] <wherebugsgo___> who just sucks
[18:19] <jcarlsoniv_> lol
[18:19] <jcarlsoniv_> ok, i'm going back to my room
[18:19] <jcarlsoniv_> save these logs
[18:19] <jcarlsoniv_> cuz i can't, lol
[18:20] <jcarlsoniv_> i'll be back on in like
[18:20] <jcarlsoniv_> 5 - 10 minutes
[18:20] <wherebugsgo___> alight sounds good

These are the logs Bugs sent me. Read my analysis, then read those and see if there is anything that would make you believe jcarl is town. Also notice that mig had Jcarl categorized as one of the most scummy people in the game.

Bugs, like incog I will ignore you, since you are unable to post without insults, all CAPS , or just spamming the thread without any argumennts

Everyone else please read what I have written and feel free to discuss it. I realize that I posted it far too late, but consider it for today, if possible.

jcarlsoniv

United States27922 Posts

October 05 2011 18:04 GMT

#1132

On October 06 2011 01:41 Erandorr wrote:
No. How about we catch some real scum?

Let us talk about Jcarl.

Firstly, look at his tone and this lovely poem :

Show nested quote +

Because it fit with the poem? That whole part of the thread is all pretty troll-y. Also, this is the first time I've seen people like Incog, Mig, and NC (who I thought was Chez, but him being GM didn't change this fact). These are all names I've heard are very good at this game whom I have never seen play first hand. This was by no means an attempt to reduce my credibility.

Other example here:

Show nested quote +

I'm not sure what the problem of stating a fact was. I had a legitimate question, and I was open to being corrected. This is how people learn.

or here :

Show nested quote +

This is about as noncommittal as you can get He does not want to give us strong reads because he is scum and wants to hide as much as he can.

You want me to commit to something that was pure speculation? If you read the logs that WBG has given you, you'll see I talk about my strong reads. WBG and I had rather in depth conversations.

Let us compare this to a post from a week ago in LOTR where he was town

Show nested quote +

On September 20 2011 23:21 jcarlsoniv wrote:

On September 20 2011 19:02 Palmar wrote:
This shit sucks, I thought I made enough posts, my bad guys.

And DrH dying sucks, because it means I can't just tunnel him today, I actually need to find another scum today.

prplhz should probably give the ring away to his strongest townread. I'd go with one of Radfield, Sandroba, myself and pyo.

On September 20 2011 21:59 Palmar wrote:
No don't worry about it. I'm just pointing out something that is a fact, but it is absolutely not necessary for you guys to see it right now, it'll come later.

On September 20 2011 19:05 Palmar wrote:

On September 20 2011 19:02 Palmar wrote:

On September 20 2011 19:02 Palmar wrote:
prplhz should probably give the ring away to his strongest townread. I'd go with one of Radfield, Sandroba, myself and pyo.

Derp... prplhz said he doesn't actually have the ring.

In any case, if you're lying, you should consider giving it away.

btw, Sandroba is almost definitely town, but only if he takes his vote off me. I'm basically confirmed town from my exchanges with DrH, but only people like sandroba/syllo etc will see it.

I was very frustrated at that point with Palmar, which is why I was getting very aggressive with him. You say to look at my past play. I have a history of wrongly accusing town. My early game play is weak. It is something I'm trying to work on, and I'm trying to be more selective.

I have been a thread lurker this game, I even admit it to WBG. I have been active out of the thread though. This is one downside I see to PM games. I have read the thread every day, and I am active outside the thread, so I don't feel like a lurker, and I don't post. Again, something to work on.

Show nested quote +

Now look at the ways in which he votes. This vote on Nuke is pretty bad. Jcarl says that Nuke is scum because he was wrong with all his reads. That alone is no reason to lynch somebody, and is also a subpar effort for someone like jcarl.

On October 05 2011 04:26 jcarlsoniv wrote:

On October 05 2011 04:05 Erandorr wrote:

On October 05 2011 03:56 jcarlsoniv wrote:

+ Show Spoiler +

tnkted
Short time after my post against wbg, he posts this + Show Spoiler +

On September 30 2011 23:28 tnkted wrote:
WBG is town. I bring this information from PM land. Plz don't shoot him.

and this + Show Spoiler +

On September 30 2011 23:34 tnkted wrote:
PM me for questions, back to class

Thanks for your read

At this point, yes, he is probably the most likely to flip scum.

Drop has been tunneling on Sev all game, but I'm leaning town on Sev. Usually when I see this happen it's town tunneling town. Definitely not definitive though.

Still wary of Forumite.

Really? That's odd. From these two posts from Incog, he seems to think that YOU are more suspicious than I am.

+ Show Spoiler +

On September 30 2011 06:21 Incognito wrote:

Show nested quote +

Here we go again with the baseless assumptions.

Stop using throwing the word "meta" around. Townies are wrong all the time so this should NOT be a consideration for this lynch.

This Palmar lynch is quite interesting right now, although this is nowhere near a "strong case". I am disturbed by the fact that nobody seems to be defending him in thread, (except perhaps wherebugsgo, underhandedly, and Forumite earlier) or is trying to derail the lynch.

The most interesting thing about Palmar is that he doesn't defend himself at all and just claims alignment cop. The other thing is completely ignoring jackal and switching to Curu AFTER I said that the WBG and Jackal lynches are bad. With that said, there are definitely reasons to see why Palmar is town. Since this is quite an uncontested lynch, I'm going to be looking out for those lurkers who jumped on the wagon in the middle section. Erandorr and jcarlsoniv come to mind.

##Vote Erandorr for this post:

Show nested quote +

Someone please tell me why Erandorr would pop up and pick on DropBear while voting Palmar in the same post.

Show nested quote +

On September 30 2011 03:28 Erandorr wrote:

On September 30 2011 03:12 DropBear wrote:
Oh for. I should never have made that stupid account.

On September 30 2011 02:57 Erandorr wrote:

On September 30 2011 02:49 DropBear wrote:
I don't like the bugs lynch. He is being spammy and annoying and doing bad OMGUS votes. I've seen him play in 2 games before this, both as town and he was spammy and annoying in those and did bad OMGUS votes. Yes it is OMGUS. He claims you are scum, then you vote him. Semantics about him not actually voting are semantics.

I have completely no idea how to read Palmar since he abused the hell out of me in XLIV as town and his derailing of Lord of the Rings. His Jackal vote was weak as hell but then most of his early reads are poor so I'm not sure what to think yet. The headbutting with Curu is just an ego battle.

The Chezinu lynch is bad cos he is renowned for playing like a wierdo and supposedly hasn't even opened his role PM yet.

The Jackal lynch is bad cos he's always quiet on day 1. I fail to see how he has claimed mute. It is true that he hasn't replied to my PM but then PMing me got him killed in Werewolves so I understand, even though I'm hurt

Basically all the lynches with more than 1 vote on them at the moment are poor in my opinion.

I want to lynch Sevryn.

What?
So you are saying nothing at all with your first real post and then want to lynch someone while giving no reason or any form of analysis?

Have you made an effort reading this thread? Mig provided some really strong analysis on Palmar, and while I dont like the way Curu has been posting , right now I think Palmar is our best shot at lynching scum today.

##Unvote
## Vote Palmar

Yes I have read the thread.

Mig's prime argument against Palmar is that he is a better player than his play in this game. My personal experience is that in fact his early play sucks in this game because his early play sucks in general. This is the guy who was renowned for shooting DTs we are talking about, plus his play in the last 2 games I've been involved in, once as town and once third party, was erratic and disruptive too.

I much prefer to lynch Sevryn than Palmar.

Hmm I need to look closer at Sev then , but you have seen his town play , right? I would say we can give him a couple of more days instead of going for the really easy kill on someone who is known for being scummy as hell when town.

Palmar is also known for being scummy when town.

+ Show Spoiler +

On October 02 2011 04:16 Incognito wrote:

Show nested quote +

On October 01 2011 20:08 wherebugsgo wrote:

On October 01 2011 06:52 Incognito wrote:
prplhz does not have a pro-town agenda. If you look at all his posts, you will see that besides spreading doubt and fueling irrelevant discussions, prplhz never gives an indication that he is trying to figure stuff out. While he can be categorized as "active", he is just sticking to the sidelines and prodding without actually contributing and does not have a town agenda. This is a highly likely indicator that he is scum.

However, the most important piece of evidence is this post:

On September 30 2011 20:38 prplhz wrote:
~words words words~
i'm posting this now 'cause apparently scum (incog) wants me dead so much that they've resorted to asking random mutes if they want to kill me. i don't see why 'cause i wasn't instrumental in palmar's demise at all.

The bolded part is clearly sarcasm. What prplhz is claiming here is that he was in fact instrumental in Palmar's demise. Is this claim true?

Absolutely not. He does vote for Palmar, who flips red, but he does not contribute to the lynch to the extent he claims. Notice the timing of his posts.

Early in the game, prplhz says

since palmar is locked down for day1 lynch can we talk about who to lynch day2?

. It is fairly obvious that this is a joke post. Two posts later, he votes NotChezinu. 3 posts after that, he says "Palmar is actually scum this time" with no explanation.

After this, there is a lul in the anti-Palmar rhetoric, and prplhz doesn't give an opinion on Palmar until two hours before the lynch ends, when it is clear that Palmar is going to die. This post is the only post in which prplhz gives a substantial opinion on Palmar, and it comes far too late:

On September 30 2011 05:04 prplhz wrote:Also how Palmar just says "Alright, I'm getting lynched, well goodbye folks". That's kinda scummy you know, they don't tend to say a lot after it's apparent that they're gonna get lynched.

prplhz only votes Palmar after it is clear that Palmar is doomed. It is obvious that prplhz's post was not meant to influence people to vote Palmar, but to justify his vote. prplhz does not push Palmar's lynch at ANY time before this point, and doesn't contribute to the discussion when people are trying to figure out if they want to vote for Curu or Palmar. Look at prplhz's 3 posts before the one I just quoted:

On September 29 2011 20:40 prplhz wrote:

On September 29 2011 20:17 Forumite wrote:
Putting it out there, I´d rather see the lynch being between Palmar and Curu than us lynching one either Jackal or WBG.

so you don't care much who gets lynched, you just want to voice your support of a scenario with two bandwagons that you and your scum buddies can hop on to at leisure?

On September 29 2011 21:40 prplhz wrote:
so who do you think is scummier of the two? are any of them scum at all?

On September 29 2011 21:49 prplhz wrote:
i mean scum would love to see the lynch be decided by who is the scummier of two townies, and not who is actually scum. you're just sitting there saying "oh yea bitches, duke it out and we'll lynch one of you!" and i kinda find that very scummy. very scum.

Is he contributing to the lynch? No. First he underhandedly accuses Forumite by suggesting he doesn't care about the lynch. Then he asks Forumite of his opinion on Palmar/Curu and criticizes Forumite for not trying to figure out if Palmar/Curu are scummy townies or scum, while failing to provide any insight himself. It is obvious that prplhz is not trying to bring clarity to the thread, but is rather trying to stir doubt. Yet after the lynch, he claims (using sarcasm) that he was instrumental in Palmar's lynch. This is clearly not true.

prplhz is trying to claim undeserved credit for Palmar's lynch. There is no reason for a townie to do this. Thus, prplhz is mafia.

You know, it's kinda funny how much Incog has been a hypocrite this game.

He hasn't followed his own advice for townies, he accuses prpl for not having a pro-town agenda when his is one of the most anti-town in the game, and continues to spew garbage.

Just look at this "analysis" of prpl. It isn't analysis, it's a wall of fluff.

All game Incog has been insinuating that he's been producing things of value, particularly in his fantastical "PM land." Have any of you seen these supposed things of value? Have any of you seen what Incog has contributed to this town?

I certainly haven't.

Instead, Incog has been acting exactly like the type of player he's targetting; like a scummy lurker.

I'm not being a hypocrite. If you see my play, it obviously has an agenda behind it. Maybe its not the most transparent agenda, but unlike all you guys spamming up the thread and pointing fingers at the same 8 people who keep posting, I'm trying to figure stuff out. If someone can tell me where these players have been and why they are being ignored, please let me know:

sinani
Nisani
risk.nuke
jcarl
erandorr
NotChezinu
Lucidity
Kenpachi
DropBear
supersoft
sevryn

It should be fairly obvious that the mafia the mafia were weak and disorganized day 1, as they couldn't stop the fast Palmar lynch. This means that the mafia are most likely in the pool of less active posters. Take a look at the latest vote count:

Palmar
Curu*
supersoft
Mig*
jcarlsoniv
Erandorr <-- error in vote count
Forumite
Jackal58
prplhz
risk.nuke

Starred players are the ones who instigated the list. Palmar was lynched with relatively few voters, but because the vote was split among so many candidates, it was pretty safe to say that by the 4th or 5th vote, this was a sealed deal (the next highest lynch candidate had 2 votes). Looking at the placement of jackal and prplhz as two confirmed town on the end of the list, I'm going to go out and say that mafia weren't really around for this lynch. It doesn't make sense for mafia to jump on as early as jcarlsoniv, and maybe even Erandorr. Although weaker since jackal/prplhz are town, risk.nuke/Forumite look quite suspicious here. I'll wait for some of my PMs to come back but I'm looking hard at them right now.

Either way, back to wbg's point, even if I've been a hypocrite, how does that make me mafia? He is seriously blowing my scumminess out of proportion. He accuses me of not being openly useful and thus not having a pro-town agenda. It should be fairly obvious that unlike some of the people who are jumping on the easy votes (the votes on wherebugsgo/me), I'm actually trying to dig deeper. Anyone who has been in PM contact with me should be able to tell that I actually am trying to figure stuff out and that I actually care about the town.

My posts are not fluff, they show that I am genuinely contributing to the game. I haven't seen a serious analysis from anyone this game, except for Mig.

Gonna look seriously into the pool of inactives, especialy risk.nuke/Forumite, as I'm not convinced right now that any of the same 8 active posters are mafia.

It's convenient to leave out little things like that, eh?

He tried to softly defend incognito, but caved in after talking to mig. That does not sound like him trying to have doubts, thats him trying to get some towncred on the way.

Did I not straight up defend Incog? That was a soft defense? I straight up said that I didn't think that this would be Incog's scum play, and that I thought it highly unlikely that he was scum. This was the beginning of the day of Incog's lynch.

I then spoke with Mig because I needed to talk about it with someone. I was inclined to listen to his judgement because he has a reputation. I'm flattered that you think I'm a vet, though.

Sevryn

698 Posts

October 05 2011 18:18 GMT

#1133

I dont understand. If the case on me uses that im magicly tied to forumite and sinani some how then why dont we lynch them first?

wherebugsgo

Japan10647 Posts

October 05 2011 18:21 GMT

#1134

On October 06 2011 03:18 Sevryn wrote:
I dont understand. If the case on me uses that im magicly tied to forumite and sinani some how then why dont we lynch them first?

LOL

cause if we lynch you, then we determine whether they're both scumbuddies with you.

If we lynch one of them we don't figure out anything about the other.

Plus, people are most comfortable with lynching you.

Sevryn

698 Posts

October 05 2011 18:24 GMT

#1135

how long is left in the day?

Kurumi

Poland6130 Posts

October 05 2011 18:27 GMT

#1136

On October 06 2011 03:24 Sevryn wrote:
how long is left in the day?

3 hours 30 minutes

xtfftc

United Kingdom2343 Posts

October 05 2011 18:27 GMT

#1137

3 hours 32 minutes, I think.

Erandorr

2283 Posts

October 05 2011 18:33 GMT

#1138

Hey Jcarl.
You say you have a reputation for wrongly accusing town? Well, why don't you do this in this game, too?

I have read the logs of you and Bugs, for the most part its him talking at you. All you do thats a "read" is giving bugs a list from bottom to top about scummyness. Thats not giving a read, thats giving a list without any justification. THe rest of the conversation is Bugs talking at you and you, for the most part agreeing with him. For him that is a sign of you being town , not for anybody who looks at it objectivly.

The PM part is impossible to track, which makes it very convinient. I do however, have to ask the question why, if you think everyone in here is retarded, you do not try to push your lynch instead of giving a 1 lines accusation about a lurker who is playing his first game. Who have you been talking to the last few days?

Now derailing this on my is typical scum logic. If you cannot argue with something, lets make me look bad, too. I agree that my timing is looking scummy but that is not enough to make me scum, The rest of the my Case does make you scum , though.

What bugged me about Incog is that you never considered how he could play so bad as Town, either. Oh wait I do. You are scum and knew he is not...

Mig thought you are likely scum too, and his judgement is great, you are right

Oh and I love how you ignored my part about your 1 line Vote for Nuke.

jcarlsoniv

United States27922 Posts

October 05 2011 18:46 GMT

#1139

On October 06 2011 03:33 Erandorr wrote:
Hey Jcarl.
You say you have a reputation for wrongly accusing town? Well, why don't you do this in this game, too?

Did I not just say that I'm trying to be more selective? You want me to go back to my ways of wrongly accusing town?

I have read the logs of you and Bugs, for the most part its him talking at you. All you do thats a "read" is giving bugs a list from bottom to top about scummyness. Thats not giving a read, thats giving a list without any justification. THe rest of the conversation is Bugs talking at you and you, for the most part agreeing with him. For him that is a sign of you being town , not for anybody who looks at it objectivly.

The PM part is impossible to track, which makes it very convinient. I do however, have to ask the question why, if you think everyone in here is retarded, you do not try to push your lynch instead of giving a 1 lines accusation about a lurker who is playing his first game. Who have you been talking to the last few days?

Now derailing this on my is typical scum logic. If you cannot argue with something, lets make me look bad, too. I agree that my timing is looking scummy but that is not enough to make me scum, The rest of the my Case does make you scum , though.

I wasn't trying to make you look scummy. I was discrediting your argument.

What bugged me about Incog is that you never considered how he could play so bad as Town, either. Oh wait I do. You are scum and knew he is not...

Mig thought you are likely scum too, and his judgement is great, you are right

Oh and I love how you ignored my part about your 1 line Vote for Nuke.

But you know what? If you really want to lynch me, that is your choice. What will you learn from lynching me though? That you were wrong, first off. But say I were to flip scum, who does that implicate?

I agree with WBG + Show Spoiler +

zomg i'm doing it again

that we have the potential to learn the most from Sevryn's flip. Forumite is refusing to snipe him. I don't understand why unless there is a connection.

##unvote
##vote Sevryn

wherebugsgo

Japan10647 Posts

October 05 2011 18:47 GMT

#1140

On October 06 2011 03:33 Erandorr wrote:
Hey Jcarl.
You say you have a reputation for wrongly accusing town? Well, why don't you do this in this game, too?

I have read the logs of you and Bugs, for the most part its him talking at you. All you do thats a "read" is giving bugs a list from bottom to top about scummyness. Thats not giving a read, thats giving a list without any justification. THe rest of the conversation is Bugs talking at you and you, for the most part agreeing with him. For him that is a sign of you being town , not for anybody who looks at it objectivly.

The PM part is impossible to track, which makes it very convinient. I do however, have to ask the question why, if you think everyone in here is retarded, you do not try to push your lynch instead of giving a 1 lines accusation about a lurker who is playing his first game. Who have you been talking to the last few days?

Now derailing this on my is typical scum logic. If you cannot argue with something, lets make me look bad, too. I agree that my timing is looking scummy but that is not enough to make me scum, The rest of the my Case does make you scum , though.

What bugged me about Incog is that you never considered how he could play so bad as Town, either. Oh wait I do. You are scum and knew he is not...

Mig thought you are likely scum too, and his judgement is great, you are right

Oh and I love how you ignored my part about your 1 line Vote for Nuke.

I'm going to say a few things, and then not bother with you anymore. You indeed have also found it necessary to mischaracterize my posts as an excuse to ignore me.

1. You claim Mig's judgement was so great, but he failed like everyone else did on Incog. I can't believe you're actually using this as an argument for jcarl being scummy when I was also one of those players who was strongly convinced Incog was not scum.

In fact, I look even worse than jcarl in this regard because I didn't publicly post why I thought Incog was town. I kept it to PMs and I waited until the Curu case was posted to say anything at all. At that point Incog shot himself in the foot so I had no choice (like everyone else) but to vote him.

2. You focus on his one liner vote on risk.nuke without realizing that there have been other things going on in PMs that would explain this. You seem to be disregarding a lot of other evidence just to tunnel jcarl with 3 hours left in the day. You haven't yet considered who the other scum might be. You haven't put forth any ideas on this at all!

Jcarl can't be the only scum. Even if Jcarl is scum, who are the other two? You refuse to answer this.

3. Mig's opinion is not the only one that matters. Yes, he thought jcarl was scummy. But, Curu thought jcarl was town.

+ Show Spoiler [Curuskypelog] +

[10/3/2011 4:08:07 PM] wherebugsgo: yo did Mig tell you why he thinks Erandor and Kenpachi are town?
[10/3/2011 4:08:21 PM] Curu: yes
[10/3/2011 4:08:32 PM] wherebugsgo: what role did Erandor claim?
[10/3/2011 4:08:46 PM] wherebugsgo: and kenpachi?
[10/3/2011 4:08:57 PM] wherebugsgo: like, why are they 90% sure town, I'm not getting this
[10/3/2011 4:09:09 PM] Curu: wasn't a claim, something else
[10/3/2011 4:09:15 PM] wherebugsgo: ?
[10/3/2011 4:09:20 PM] wherebugsgo: well so Erandor is mute right?
[10/3/2011 4:18:53 PM] Curu: yes
[10/3/2011 4:19:08 PM] Curu: you thinkj they are scummy?
[10/3/2011 4:19:22 PM] wherebugsgo: I don't think kenpachi is scummy
[10/3/2011 4:19:34 PM] wherebugsgo: Erandor...I question why he would want to say in the thread that I PMed him
[10/3/2011 4:19:43 PM] wherebugsgo: when I didn't
[10/3/2011 4:19:44 PM] wherebugsgo: that's a lie
[10/3/2011 4:19:51 PM] wherebugsgo: I PMed him once like 2 days ago
[10/3/2011 4:19:53 PM] wherebugsgo: and he never responded
[10/3/2011 4:20:16 PM] Curu: cause he has no reason to tell you who has been pming him
[10/3/2011 4:20:24 PM] wherebugsgo: I never asked
[10/3/2011 4:20:26 PM] wherebugsgo: who he was PMing
[10/3/2011 4:20:27 PM] wherebugsgo: 2 days ago
[10/3/2011 4:20:33 PM] wherebugsgo: or at least I don't think that's what i asked him
[10/3/2011 4:20:37 PM] wherebugsgo: one sec I'll check what I sent him
[10/3/2011 4:20:55 PM] Curu: who the hell is asking these questions?
[10/3/2011 4:20:58 PM] Curu: is what you posted in the thread
[10/3/2011 4:21:15 PM] wherebugsgo: yes
[10/3/2011 4:21:20 PM] wherebugsgo: I did post that
[10/3/2011 4:21:22 PM] wherebugsgo: but why would he respond
[10/3/2011 4:21:24 PM] wherebugsgo: with "you are"?
[10/3/2011 4:21:30 PM] wherebugsgo: he could just ask
[10/3/2011 4:21:32 PM] wherebugsgo: why do you want to know
[10/3/2011 4:21:33 PM] wherebugsgo: etc
[10/3/2011 4:21:42 PM] Curu: well there's no reason to tell anyone anyways
[10/3/2011 4:21:53 PM] wherebugsgo: okay
[10/3/2011 4:21:57 PM] wherebugsgo: but I'm not asking that now
[10/3/2011 4:22:03 PM] Curu: mm
[10/3/2011 4:22:03 PM] wherebugsgo: obv Mig was asking the questions
[10/3/2011 4:22:11 PM] wherebugsgo: so what makes Erandor town?
[10/3/2011 4:22:23 PM] wherebugsgo: or at least, more town than me/super
[10/3/2011 4:22:28 PM] Curu: not sharing why Erandorr and Kenpachi are Town
[10/3/2011 4:22:37 PM] Curu: I want to believe you are Town, your postinga nd stuff has looked Town
[10/3/2011 4:22:48 PM] Curu: but you've pushed like Jackal tnkted me prplhz all awfully
[10/3/2011 4:22:55 PM] wherebugsgo: indeed
[10/3/2011 4:22:56 PM] wherebugsgo: I've played badly
[10/3/2011 4:23:06 PM] wherebugsgo: but it's not like anyone else in the town
[10/3/2011 4:23:09 PM] wherebugsgo: has had better reads
[10/3/2011 4:23:09 PM] Curu: if NotChez is scum you are almost certainly Town
[10/3/2011 4:23:10 PM] Curu: though
[10/3/2011 4:23:14 PM] Curu: yeah but I expect better from you
[10/3/2011 4:23:18 PM] wherebugsgo: lol
[10/3/2011 4:23:20 PM] wherebugsgo: I tried
[10/3/2011 4:23:20 PM] Curu: sinani needs a look too
[10/3/2011 4:23:22 PM] wherebugsgo: defending Incog
[10/3/2011 4:23:26 PM] Curu: he came in right after the day
[10/3/2011 4:23:28 PM] wherebugsgo: it didn't help
[10/3/2011 4:23:33 PM] wherebugsgo: that Incog played as bad as I did
[10/3/2011 4:23:33 PM] Curu: to vote incog
[10/3/2011 4:23:36 PM] Curu: when he hasnt done shit
[10/3/2011 4:23:44 PM] Curu: anytime before or after
[10/3/2011 4:23:55 PM] wherebugsgo: right but we could've voted jcarl
[10/3/2011 4:23:59 PM] wherebugsgo: for doing the same right?
[10/3/2011 4:24:08 PM] Curu: jcarl i have some reasont o believe is Town
[10/3/2011 4:24:12 PM] Curu: if he isn't he is playing really good Mafia
[10/3/2011 4:24:22 PM] wherebugsgo: so you think NC
[10/3/2011 4:24:25 PM] wherebugsgo: and sinani are good choices for mafia?
[10/3/2011 4:24:30 PM] wherebugsgo: better than jcarl at least
[10/3/2011 4:24:39 PM] wherebugsgo: I agree that NC is very scummy
[10/3/2011 4:24:47 PM] wherebugsgo: but I think jcarl deserves a look too
[10/3/2011 4:24:51 PM] Curu: yes he does
[10/3/2011 4:24:54 PM] Curu: but Incog flipping Town makes jcarl look better
[10/3/2011 4:25:03 PM] wherebugsgo: no, not really
[10/3/2011 4:25:07 PM] Curu: he had a big debate with Mig about why Incog is scum
[10/3/2011 4:25:16 PM] wherebugsgo: in PMs?
[10/3/2011 4:25:17 PM] Curu: a scum jcarl I don't think would put that much effort
[10/3/2011 4:25:17 PM] Curu: yes
[10/3/2011 4:25:25 PM] Curu: he wasn't sold on Incog scum
[10/3/2011 4:25:29 PM] Curu: but after a long talk he voted
[10/3/2011 4:25:40 PM] Curu: I don't think he would put that effort in if he was scum
[10/3/2011 4:25:41 PM] Curu: and Incog Town
[10/3/2011 4:25:50 PM] wherebugsgo: okay
[10/3/2011 4:25:56 PM] wherebugsgo: and what about Nisani?
[10/3/2011 4:26:13 PM] Curu: Nisani didn't derpvote me he saw that the case was bad
[10/3/2011 4:26:18 PM] Curu: he has the most reason out of anyone bsides sinani
[10/3/2011 4:26:24 PM] Curu: to get away with easy retard votes on me
[10/3/2011 4:26:29 PM] wherebugsgo: right
[10/3/2011 4:26:34 PM] wherebugsgo: okay so if you think jcarl is town
[10/3/2011 4:26:46 PM] wherebugsgo: who is that third guy
[10/3/2011 4:26:47 PM] wherebugsgo: you think?
[10/3/2011 4:27:02 PM] Curu: third scum?
[10/3/2011 4:27:03 PM] wherebugsgo: we have NC/sinani more scummy than jcarl and whoever
[10/3/2011 4:27:04 PM] wherebugsgo: yeah
[10/3/2011 4:27:22 PM] Curu: I would say between Forumite/sinani/Sevyrn
[10/3/2011 4:27:31 PM] Curu: maybe DB but he said he was replacing and came to talk to me before
[10/3/2011 4:27:34 PM] Curu: dumping his reads on me

Curu's top 3 were NC, sinani, and one of Forumite/sevryn. He said NC and sinani were more scummy than jcarl, with Curu leaning town on jcarl.

Mig never justified why he thought jcarl was scum. Curu did, and honestly I have to agree with a justifiable opinion than one that's just the opinion on a player. I am not saying Mig's opinion is invalid, but I'm saying that we need to consider the evidence.

If anyone is wondering what this Mig/jcarl PM exchange about incog is about, look at this:

+ Show Spoiler [jcarlmig] +

Original Message From Mig:
Yep I agree also, after jackal and forumite aimed at him he immediately added me on skype and gave me all his reads because he thought he was going to die. It was an extremely townie reaction.

So I think WBG is just playing really really poorly as town this game.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Original Message From jcarlsoniv:
I think it is unlikely that WBG is scum. The way he has been playing this game is very reminiscent of how he had played in LOTR and Resurrection, both of which he was town in.

I'm going to skim through Incog's posts in PYP insane.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Original Message From Mig:
I think there is at least some chance that Incognito manipulated WBG and NC into going along with him. But overall I think it is more likely that NC and him are both mafia and if Incognito is somehow town I think NC is virtually guaranteed mafia.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Original Message From jcarlsoniv:
That's probably why it seems so easy then. Because you definitely have a good case going here.

I think my biggest fall back right now is that I don't have the history with people that a lot of you players have. I will have to look into PYP insane, but I believe you.

What do you think the chances of NC and Incog both being scum are? Like, if Incog flips either way, how does that make NC look? I think if Incog flips scum, it's very likely that NC is scum. But you said that you think at least one of them is. So even if Incog flips town, you think NC could be scum?

With this vig business...that's interesting. That makes it seem that Incog tried to get Curu killed, and then when it didn't work, he needed to have Curu pushed. But you're right. Looking back, the push was more successful than I had realized.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Original Message From Mig:
Here is what I sent forumite earlier today.

Incognito is not on the level in anyway. He is one of the very best players on TL, day1 he soft defended palmar refusing to vote him and targeted prpl asking vigis to shoot prpl. I told him repeatedly that prpl was probably town but he refused to listen. Day 2 he is attacking Curu and trying to murder the guy who killed a pyro yesterday...... This isn't just bad play this is sooooooooooooo bad. It is like you can always tell when I am mafia because I am doing dumb things and not catching scum and I am always wrong. The exact same thing is true here. Incognito is too good to be playing this bad.

And Incognito was on aim all of last night. But did he comment at all once I appeared to defend curu? Nope. He is active lurking and purposefully not commenting on the situation at hand so he doesn't take any heat. What he did was set it up so WBG and NC posted the big case against curu and he just goes yep I agree. So after curu flipped town guess who gets in trouble? Those 2 not him. Like did you see scamp's post he mainly called out NC not incognito for this. Incognito is masterminding the entire thing from the background. He has not contributed whatsoever compared to his normal play. Seriously go read pick your power insane where as a townie he was insanely helpful and caught half the scum team by himself!. But now he is trying to lynch Curu? Just doesn't add up. This game every single thing he does is wrong and he is trying to manipulate the town. Do not let him! There is some chance that WBG is mafia but if so he is just following what Incognito or NC are telling him, and I believe much much more likely they are manipulating him and setting him up to take the fall after Curu flips town!

At least one if incognito/NC is scum I guarantee it. Do not let them escape their deaths!

So I told DB these thing along with I found out that incognito asked someone he thinks is a vig to shoot curu about 6 hours before the 3 headed dragon case was ever presented. So I believe Incognito is the one who pushed for Curu's death the hardest behind the scenes. Yet he let NC and WBG take all the heat by actually posting their cases and responding when I called them out. Incog just sits in the back silent.

Honestly I cannot believe that Incog as town is bad enough to want curu dead this badly when he is very very likely town. Along with that I know for sure Incog has been active pming lots of people right. But what does he have to show for it? This curu case is the best he could come up with really? He has given the town absolutely nothing. Read his playing in Pick Your Power Insane his posts are on a completely different level. He was incredibly helpful and aggressive in finding scum. Here he is totally useless and if you read his posts early on day1 they are incredibly bad. Complaining about the thread but never doing anything to fix it. Complaining that there is too much of a split between euros/americans so he cant organize a good lynch. Promising to provide his thoughts later and never doing so.

Is there a chance incog is town? Yes I won't claim to know 100%. But I fully believe that curu lynch attempt was mafia driven and bs, I see no motivation for good townies to ever push for his lynch, which is why it was so easy for me to find tons of holes in it. Which means if I am correct either NC or Incog must be mafia (possibly both).

The case against Incognito is about 100x as strong as the case against anyone else right now.

And day1 there was almost no resistance to the palmar lynch right so why are you considered about that? And there has been resistance. The curu lynch was a huuuuge gambit. Look how much effort they put into manufacturing that analysis. And they were well on their way to starting a bandwagon. The voting was 5-4 until I appeared and actually talked some common sense into people. So there was definitely a solid attempt to divert the lynch away from Incognito.

And if it looks too easy I have answered a lot of people who have pmd me questions which convinced many to switch to him.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Original Message From jcarlsoniv:
What did you tell DropBear to make him want to vote Incog? I still have a hard time believing that this would be Incog's scum play, although, as many have pointed out, it doesn't look like his town play either.

It just seems like too easy of a lynch. There isn't much contention other than NC's case on Curu, which you promptly tore apart. All that those accusations did for me was put some doubt that Curu is town, but it wasn't nearly enough to make me think scum.

I feel stuck because right now, I don't want to vote Incog, but it feels like I have no other choices.

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