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United States24676 Posts
I noticed a small discussion about the issue of what the significance of saying/(not saying) 'gg' should be in yaqoob's blog BM @ ICCup by Noobs. I tried looking around for a thread dedicated to this, but couldn't find one, especially since search doesn't allow you to look for the two letter word 'gg'.
There seems to be a lot of disagreement about when to say gg, and what it means when you don't say gg. I'm going to outline my thoughts, and allow people with a contrary viewpoint to explain their beliefs.
Going from my limited experience... 'gg' has become an important part of a Starcraft match. Nobody enjoys losing, regardless of if you played well or not, but it's become habit to say 'gg' and expect a 'gg' from your opponent. If the conversation goes exactly like this, it can serve to lessen the load of losing. At least you lost to a gm opponent. If the opponent refuses to respond to your 'gg' with a 'gg' or responds back with a rude comment/insult etc, it's safe to say that they are being bm, unless you hacked or were very rude yourself (there was one time when I played a pvp on pgt on paranoid android and I was losing and typed 'gg' and he responded 'bg'. I asked what he meant, and he said "bad game" and I was forced to shrug it off and leave).
But that's as far as it should go, I believe. If I'm playing vs yubee, and I am winning, and he suddenly leaves, that doesn't mean he was bm. He doesn't have to 'gg'. In my opinion, the 'gg' is for the loser... not the winner. BM is in the court of the winner and how they respond to the loser. I think winners tend to have a bit of an overinflated view of their own importance, and expect something more of the loser. But that's not how it should be.
There is an exception. Suppose I play a few games with yubee every week... and we generally run ~50% wins/losses. I type out after every game I lose. Then, one game, he uses some cheese, or I play like crap, or what have you, and I don't type out before I altqq. Yeah that's a bit bm because I've built up the history of typing out vs him. But keep in mind, it's only a bit bm, and if that's the worst thing I do, compared to what many losers on ICCup do (read blog mentioned at beginning) then that's fine. No point in getting bent out of shape about a small act of bm amongst a large amount of bm.
As Shauni was beginning to do in the aformentioned blog, I'm going to outline some circumstances where I though you should or should not need to type out after losing a game.
Cases where you do not need to type out:
1) Random ladder games. It's not a bad idea to type out since there are a lot of good players on there who are taking their time to play you and aren't complaining about it. I really appreciate when an A level player plays me going through D/D+/C- ranks, and so I try my best to be as mannered as possible... so use your judgment here.
2) Random public games. With the severe amount of bm'ing that goes on here, whether or not you 'gg' when you lose is completely unimportant.
3) Any game against yubee.
Cases where you should type out:
a) A scheduled match, such as in a proleague, clan league, on a program such at tl-attack/bnet-attack/etc. Whenever you enter an official gaming entity (including WCG) you have to play the game, and obey the silly rules of etiquette. Saying 'gg' is probably part of it.
b) Playing with someone who is much much better than you. I already mentioned this earlier, but I just want to emphasize it. I don't think this should be necessary, but the circumstances really do suggest you type out, especially since it's usually in the spotlight.
In conclusion, I don't believe it's about whether or not you type out, but how mannered you act in lieu of typing out. If I don't type out and leave the game, I damn well better be mannered in the channel. Similarly, typing out doesn't suddenly give you a license to be totally bm. Be very wary about making a huge list of excuses for why you lost, in an attempt to explain how you should have won. I've been guilty of that in the past, and I realize it's a no-in situation.
I'm sure I didn't touch upon every possible case, or was a bit unclear/underdeveloped in my explanations, so I'm hoping to illicit some discussion. But please please please don't make a post like:
When you lose a game, it's known by everyone that it's bm to leave without typing out. Nothing will change this.
Thank you in advanced for your cooperation.
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I say gg all the time but i alt qq instantly after, It causes me physical pain to see my opponent type gg back 
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United States24676 Posts
On August 19 2008 06:18 Pwntrucci[sR] wrote:I say gg all the time but i alt qq instantly after, It causes me physical pain to see my opponent type gg back
Yes I neglected to mention... the issue of whether or not to stick around after typing out. Personally, I've recently started to do ggaltqq in one fluid motion... and this seems to work the best to minimize chances for bm.
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8748 Posts
my 2 rules have been:
say it when the match is broadcasted
say it when your opponent is doing you a favor by playing you
but now i think i should just say it all the time, since so many people make their happiness depend on it, and hitting 4 keys isn't much off my 300+ apm hands ;o i think it's silly to make your happiness depend on something like that, but it's so strong a belief now, and i just want everyone to be happy ^.^
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I have a friend who is really good, and I always say gg to him and my other friends because, well, you're friends right? So no matter what, it's a good game (even if I did pull all sorts of gay shit against my friends occasionally, 3 hatch allin speedlings, 5 pool, 9/9 gate rush, rine and scv rush, dt rush, joyo rush, you name it, and I've done it.) because you're friends and you are taking the time to play a game you both enjoy.
Also, if someone is obviously a lot better than you, just type gg to acknowledge it. (lol, dt rushing Xeris is the lulz).
But if it's someone on iccup that I don't even know and they just randomly cheese me or something, I'm not going to type gg. Hell, I don't even type gg that much in longer games unless I feel that it really was a good back and forth game. At least I never type, (like many terrans, "arbiters are imba, protosses can't win without them".)\
Just my 3 cents and a dime.
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I don't understand why people can't type GG after a match, regardless if it was a win or loss. But even so, I feel terribly embarrassed whn I see the GG back for some reason
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United States11637 Posts
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lol, and that's not sexist at all mhm.
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I nvr say GG unless I feel it is a GG.
If it is a GG I say it, if I don't feel it's a GG i won't say it. That fair? >_>
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I always type GG, no matter what. And I really think that the people that dont type it have a childish behavior.
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I agree with micronesia 100%.I rarely type gg in random iccup games. And when I do, I leave instantly as Pwntrucci[sR] said.
What I DO find bm is when you opponent feels he's winning and types gg to you, like asking you to surrender/leave. When that happens I feel the urge to make the win as hard as possible to my opponent. That includes planting pylons all over the map and alt-tabbing out of BW. Hell, I've even managed to win a game like that every once in a while.
On a particular game a few months ago. I suicided my whole army trying to break in a fortified terran main/natural (PvT Python). Just after my army died the guy typed "gg" and proceeded to move out. I managed to survive with two fresh expansions and took the island, where I built a stargate and a fleet beacon. It was the greatest feeling in the world when the guy ran dry and I killed his last expo with 6 carriers. He typed something like "you lucky pussy" and left 
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United States24676 Posts
A lot of good posts.
On August 19 2008 06:31 Mutalisk wrote:
I always type GG, no matter what. And I really think that the people that dont type it have a childish behavior.
This is what I'm talking about. You think people should type out no matter what. That's what I believe is childish.
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I always say gg no matter what, just to be polite I guess. People always say it's just a stranger over the interet and there's no point in being polite or whatever but I don't want to worsen someone's gaming experience.
EDIT: I also agree that the winner calling gg is super super bm. idc if I'm playing a guy that's way out of my league and he's up 5 bases to one, that's just a jackass thing to do.
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United States24676 Posts
On August 19 2008 06:32 Darth_Ihsahn wrote:I agree with micronesia 100%.I rarely type gg in random iccup games. And when I do, I leave instantly as Pwntrucci[sR] said. What I DO find bm is when you opponent feels he's winning and types gg to you, like asking you to surrender/leave. When that happens I feel the urge to make the win as hard as possible to my opponent. That includes planting pylons all over the map and alt-tabbing out of BW. Hell, I've even managed to win a game like that every once in a while. On a particular game a few months ago. I suicided my whole army trying to break in a fortified terran main/natural (PvT Python). Just after my army died the guy typed "gg" and proceeded to move out. I managed to survive with two fresh expansions and took the island, where I built a stargate and a fleet beacon. It was the greatest feeling in the world when the guy ran dry and I killed his last expo with 6 carriers. He typed something like "you lucky pussy" and left
Another good point I neglected to mention. I hate it when people who are winning type 'gg' preemptively. Yes I find that to be bm.
Edit: Although be careful... if you type something while you are losing and they immediately respond with 'gg' it could be an accident...
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I try to allways type out gg.
for me its the difference between playing humans or against ai...
Sometimes its hard to type out when you lose to 5 pool after you scouted it or something... But I try to do it as often as I can.If the opponent is bm fr no reason I dont type out and just quit the game.
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i think gg should be typed when you lose, however sometimes im upset at myself for whatever reason and i leave before saying it, however i always say it in the channel if this is the case, i don't think its that bad to leave without saying it and then saying it in the channel.
I dont say it in iccup either, but the only time i really type there is to tell my opponent to leave when they have no chance lol
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United States24676 Posts
On August 19 2008 06:37 Aux1 wrote:
i think gg should be typed when you lose, Can you elaborate on why this is? A lot of people share this opinion, but I have yet to see a good line of reasoning...
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I feel that some people feel that they've had a very bad game, or you did something cheesy and it was very micro intensive on their part and they messed up some, and they don't feel like it was a good game, and or are mad at their opponent so they don't type gg before they quit. I wouldn't say it's bad mannered because its just as much your time as it is theirs. I haven't experianced many people that don't gg, except a few on iccup, but it is usually due to a vult rush or failed cheese attempt by them that causes it.
I understand they had a bad game and it doesn't really matter to me. I have quit once or twice without gg'ing, but I try to keep the mindset that the opponent is trying, and they worked for the win, so they diserve a gg at the end because they beat me, but as I said before, sometimes a 2 gate proxi into dt rush really pisses you off, and you don't feel that the opponents skill had anything to do with the win.
Saying gg is really up to the player, and if he feels he didn't have a good game, than I don't find it bm to not say gg. Sometimes the person not gg'ing is nice after they've failed a cheese and you win, giving you the satisfaction in knowing how much he was relying on that rush to work, and that you had such a good game that he was mad enough to leave without it.
If I gg, and I don't see one immediatly, I'll wait about 5 seconds, do something silly like saviors hydra micro against bisu (assuming he is macroing or microing or busy moving his army or something), and if it doesn't come then ill just leave and make sure I try harder the next game for a win, or atleast a gg.
I agree with gg'ing every game vs more skilled opponents though, because they took the time to play you and you should respect your elders (better than you) and its kind of like a thank you at the end before you leave.
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United States11637 Posts
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i27.tinypic.com/21jrklx.jpg)
