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New York Times Article
Nearly 29,000 inmates in California state prisons refused meals for the third day Wednesday during a protest of prison conditions and rules. The protest extended to two-thirds of the 33 prisons across the state and all 4 private out-of-state facilities where California sends inmates, corrections officials said.
Thousands of prisoners also refused to attend their work assignments for a third day, and state officials were bracing for a long-term strike.
Once the state tallies the official number of participants, the hunger strike could become the largest in state history. A similar hunger strike over several weeks in 2011 had about 6,000 participants at its official peak, corrections officials said, and a strike that fall had about 4,200.
The protest is centered on the state’s aggressive solitary confinement practices, but it appeared to have attracted support from many prisoners with their own demands for changes in prison conditions.
Wired Article Investigating the Effects and Usage of Solitary
The human brain is ill-adapted to such conditions, and activists and some psychologists equate it to torture. Solitary confinement isn’t merely uncomfortable, they say, but such an anathema to human needs that it often drives prisoners mad.
In isolation, people become anxious and angry, prone to hallucinations and wild mood swings, and unable to control their impulses. The problems are even worse in people predisposed to mental illness, and can wreak long-lasting changes in prisoners’ minds.
“What we’ve found is that a series of symptoms occur almost universally. They are so common that it’s something of a syndrome,” said psychiatrist Terry Kupers of the Wright Institute, a prominent critic of solitary confinement. “I’m afraid we’re talking about permanent damage.”
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Anyways, this is an important topic for me. Prisoners are treated like shite all over the world and throughout history. Check it out. Also, take note of the second paragraph above. This is happening across 20 prisons. No walls or jail cells will stay up or locked when the human spirit cries out for dignity.
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And I thought prison conditions were pretty good. Shit...
Honest post:
I think solitary confinement is probably pretty counter-productive, assuming the people aren't in jail for life. How many sane people actually come out of that?
It just seems weird that so many people would be protesting solitary confinement. Surely only a few people actually get that kind of "punishment". At least that shows that people in jail have some sympathy. They can't be that bad, heh.
@superstartran
Well, what is classified as a human right? They -ARE- given food, water, and technically shelter... Being able to see others? Not sure if that qualifies as a right, heh. Though, I don't necessarily agree with it.
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They will eventually eat. Let them perform their hunger strike. There is a reason why they are in prison in the first place. Once they have commited the crimes that landed them in prison, their basic rights were taken away. They don't deserve the same rights as normal citizens.
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On July 11 2013 10:48 GhostOwl wrote:
They will eventually eat. Let them perform their hunger strike. There is a reason why they are in prison in the first place. Once they have commited the crimes that landed them in prison, their basic rights were taken away. They don't deserve the same rights as normal citizens.
They do deserve rights as human beings though.
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On July 11 2013 10:49 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 10:48 GhostOwl wrote:
They will eventually eat. Let them perform their hunger strike. There is a reason why they are in prison in the first place. Once they have commited the crimes that landed them in prison, their basic rights were taken away. They don't deserve the same rights as normal citizens. They do deserve rights as human beings though.
Exactly. Doesn't mean we can torture people simply because they are in prison.
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On July 11 2013 10:48 GhostOwl wrote:
They will eventually eat. Let them perform their hunger strike. There is a reason why they are in prison in the first place. Once they have commited the crimes that landed them in prison, their basic rights were taken away. They don't deserve the same rights as normal citizens.
I thought the point of prison was to provide disincentives for crime, rehabilitate people so they can be brought back into society, and/or prevent people from committing further crimes, not subject people to inhumane conditions that worsen their mental state.
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On July 11 2013 10:48 GhostOwl wrote:
They will eventually eat. Let them perform their hunger strike. There is a reason why they are in prison in the first place. Once they have commited the crimes that landed them in prison, their basic rights were taken away. They don't deserve the same rights as normal citizens.
in my opinion, there are many people in prison who do not deserve to be in prison
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On July 11 2013 10:47 Blargh wrote:
And I thought prison conditions were pretty good. Shit...
Honest post:
I think solitary confinement is probably pretty counter-productive, assuming the people aren't in jail for life. How many sane people actually come out of that?
It just seems weird that so many people would be protesting solitary confinement. Surely only a few people actually get that kind of "punishment". At least that shows that people in jail have some sympathy. They can't be that bad, heh.
@superstartran
Well, what is classified as a human right? They -ARE- given food, water, and technically shelter... Being able to see others? Not sure if that qualifies as a right, heh. Though, I don't necessarily agree with it.
State prisons in the US are known for being shitty it varies drastically from state to state california for a long time has had a problem with conditions due to overcrowding, Federal prisons are starkly different though they are the prisons you think of.
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On July 11 2013 10:48 GhostOwl wrote:
They will eventually eat. Let them perform their hunger strike. There is a reason why they are in prison in the first place. Once they have commited the crimes that landed them in prison, their basic rights were taken away. They don't deserve the same rights as normal citizens.
There's a huge group of philosophers studying ethics and morality that are basically saying that we all live with a big belief and assumption that A) we all have Free Will, and B) we all have Ultimate Moral Responsibility. What they're arguing is that that long held belief, while necessary to function, is actual a big fallacy. We've totally stopped taking into account the idea of nurturance, not only by parents, but by reality and society as a whole.
In any case, I think your statement assumes that, and I have to disagree myself, not only because of what I've laid out, but also because I believe that every person, no matter the crime, deserves some rights and a shred of basic humanity, even if it's just to try to understand them.
Positions like yours (with all due respect) wants to just write off whole swaths of people, separate them from us, as if we could do that. I understand that position and where it might come from, but fundamentallly, I think it's wrong.
EDIT: Just to clarify, it doesn't mean I condone criminal acts or don't find them reprehensible, but I do think to write them off because of crimes they did of "their own free will" is a dismissive act that doesn't actually tackle the problem.
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They are in jail for a reason, and i for one think they get to fair of treatment. Let them not eat, maybe they can cut costs on food and give back to the taxpayers, or raise the guards pay a bit.
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On July 11 2013 11:03 Kenthros wrote:
They are in jail for a reason, and i for one think they get to fair of treatment. Let them not eat, maybe they can cut costs on food and give back to the taxpayers, or raise the guards pay a bit.
Yeah, but jail is one thing. To essentially torture them, to create a defacto law in the prison that isn't part of their original sentence and leads to behaviors that add onto punishment and ongoing psychological trauma AFTER they get released is another thing. Why would we want to treat these prisoners so badly when eventually they're going to be released into "polite, civilized" society? Then what? Recidivism rates go up. When we release broken men, men that the US prison system have broken, where does all that bitterness and anger go?
Norway, I believe, has some of the lower recidivism rates lately, and I can't help but think it's because they treat their prisoners like people, that is, humanely. What about the US? We have not some of the highest recidivism rate but THE highest world-wide.
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On July 11 2013 11:01 wUndertUnge wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 10:48 GhostOwl wrote:
They will eventually eat. Let them perform their hunger strike. There is a reason why they are in prison in the first place. Once they have commited the crimes that landed them in prison, their basic rights were taken away. They don't deserve the same rights as normal citizens. There's a huge group of philosophers studying ethics and morality that are basically saying that we all live with a big belief and assumption that A) we all have Free Will, and B) we all have Ultimate Moral Responsibility. What they're arguing is that that long held belief, while necessary to function, is actual a big fallacy. We've totally stopped taking into account the idea of nurturance, not only by parents, but by reality and society as a whole. In any case, I think your statement assumes that, and I have to disagree myself, not only because of what I've laid out, but also because I believe that every person, no matter the crime, deserves some rights and a shred of basic humanity, even if it's just to try to understand them. Positions like yours (with all due respect) wants to just write off whole swaths of people, separate them from us, as if we could do that. I understand that position and where it might come from, but fundamentallly, I think it's wrong.
I couldn't agree more with this post. We are to a large extent a product of our environment and genetics. The idea that good people can be easily separated from bad people is very questionable, especially in prisons where ethnic minorities, poor people, and mentally ill people are over represented.
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On July 11 2013 11:03 Kenthros wrote:
They are in jail for a reason, and i for one think they get to fair of treatment. Let them not eat, maybe they can cut costs on food and give back to the taxpayers, or raise the guards pay a bit.
What's the reason?
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On July 11 2013 11:10 Rainling wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 11:01 wUndertUnge wrote:On July 11 2013 10:48 GhostOwl wrote:
They will eventually eat. Let them perform their hunger strike. There is a reason why they are in prison in the first place. Once they have commited the crimes that landed them in prison, their basic rights were taken away. They don't deserve the same rights as normal citizens. There's a huge group of philosophers studying ethics and morality that are basically saying that we all live with a big belief and assumption that A) we all have Free Will, and B) we all have Ultimate Moral Responsibility. What they're arguing is that that long held belief, while necessary to function, is actual a big fallacy. We've totally stopped taking into account the idea of nurturance, not only by parents, but by reality and society as a whole. In any case, I think your statement assumes that, and I have to disagree myself, not only because of what I've laid out, but also because I believe that every person, no matter the crime, deserves some rights and a shred of basic humanity, even if it's just to try to understand them. Positions like yours (with all due respect) wants to just write off whole swaths of people, separate them from us, as if we could do that. I understand that position and where it might come from, but fundamentallly, I think it's wrong. I couldn't agree more with this post. We are to a large extent a product of our environment and genetics. The idea that good people can be easily separated from bad people is very questionable, especially in prisons where ethnic minorities, poor people, and mentally ill people are over represented.
Well, I do think we have to address abberant and delinquent behavior. I think they need to be separated from society while they're dangerous. But what you said about minorities and those on the low part of the economic scale being in prison seems systemic to me and circular.
Not to mention the fact that minorities are often targeted unjustly by the police. Just the other day, I was in a part of Brooklyn that I used to live in and they were stopping every black person and checking their ID, which is profiling. More than 80% of pot arrests for small amounts (which is decriminilized by the way on the state level) are latino or black. There are corruption allegations against at least two precincts for trying to boost numbers illegally by doing illegal arrests.
So not everyone in jail deserves to be there. But I don't know what the answer is. Just because we don't have overarching ultimate responsibility, it doesn't mean that we don't have responsibility or choices, small 'r' and 'c'. Our choices though are limited by a bevy of influences throughout our lifetime that we just can't control: our place in time, space, famillies, countries, etc.
Here's the book where most of my ideas in the post above come from. It's called A Very Bad Wizard: Morality Behind the Curtain
It's all dialogues with philosophers, biologists, neurologists, and lots more. It kind of solidified a lot of my own moral and ethical values and ideas...well, more opened them up (I hope). The Philip Zimbardo interview is worth it alone for the entire book. Great read.
Also, another article (that I haven't read yet!) on why we don't have free will: http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/story/2012-01-01/free-will-science-religion/52317624/1
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You give them food and a place to sleep. What more do they deserve exactly?
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Ummm, I may be a hard ass but prisons are not meant to be easy vacations. They are meant as punishment. The only reason your in a prison is because you did something that negatively affects society. Be a good prisoner and you won't have to go to solitary.
I see no problem at all with that system. If they don't want to eat, whatever. Hopefully the corrections officials don't cave and and another 1 star to each prisons hotel rating
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On July 11 2013 11:20 a176 wrote:
You give them food and a place to sleep. What more do they deserve exactly?
Rehabilitation. If all the correction system does is lock people in a box until they go mad then there is no justice, just revenge.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On July 11 2013 11:20 a176 wrote:
You give them food and a place to sleep. What more do they deserve exactly?
Contrary to popular belief, that kind of attitude only compounds the problem. Here's an excellent article pointing out why prison as a tool of retribution is increasingly out of line with social developments. While written from the point of view of someone from NZ, the points he raises are valid in almost every western democracy.
http://justspeak.org.nz/escaping-prison-the-need-to-distance-ourselves-from-punitive-prison-policy/
He covers the following points:
Interlocking trend #1: in a world increasingly moving away from crude old-fashioned discipline, prison is a disciplinarian institution – and should be seen as old-fashioned, too
Interlocking trend #2: in a world growing to acknowledge the importance of social ties, prison is an isolating institution – and so should seem out of place
Interlocking trend #3: in a society becoming increasingly aware of mental health challenges, prison is a hub of mental health challenges and so should be scrutinised
Interlocking trend #4: in a society (at times) concerned with equality, prison highlights the discrimination faced by Maori in New Zealand – and so should be rethought
Interlocking trend #5: in a world concerned with evidence-based and effective policy interventions, prison is an ineffective intervention – and so should be largely abandoned
Another good article: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/10/opinion/a-conservative-case-for-prison-reform.html?emc=eta1&_r=3&
Conservatives should recognize that the entire criminal justice system is another government spending program fraught with the issues that plague all government programs. Criminal justice should be subject to the same level of skepticism and scrutiny that we apply to any other government program.
But it’s not just the excessive and unwise spending that offends conservative values. Prisons, for example, are harmful to prisoners and their families. Reform is therefore also an issue of compassion. The current system often turns out prisoners who are more harmful to society than when they went in, so prison and re-entry reform are issues of public safety as well.
[...]
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On July 11 2013 11:25 Velocirapture wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 11:20 a176 wrote:
You give them food and a place to sleep. What more do they deserve exactly? Rehabilitation. If all the correction system does is lock people in a box until they go mad then there is no justice to the system, just revenge.
Not to mention much hope for their next victim once they are released.
July 11 2013 11:25 Orcasgt24 wrote:
Ummm, I may be a hard ass but prisons are not meant to be easy vacations. They are meant as punishment. The only reason your in a prison is because you did something that negatively affects society. Be a good prisoner and you won't have to go to solitary.
Understandable, and while I don't agree, I think what is being protested though is that solitary is going beyond the actual terms of the punishment. Just because it's not meant to be a cakewalk, does it necessarily mean that the prison environment should be a place of chaos where we break down the prisoner further?
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On July 11 2013 10:48 GhostOwl wrote:
They will eventually eat. Let them perform their hunger strike. There is a reason why they are in prison in the first place. Once they have commited the crimes that landed them in prison, their basic rights were taken away. They don't deserve the same rights as normal citizens.
This struck me as quite harsh. Once they are released they are normal citezens. We want to have a society of mentally stable people. Solitary confinement can make a person insane. People who are unstable mentally are more likely to do horrible things such as mass shotings.....and land hemselves back in jail.
I wouldnt be so sure that they will eventually eat. I'm sure that some of them believe they have nothing to lose because they are already in terrible conditions. I dont think most Americans could go 3 days without food. That is something that impresses me about these prisoners.
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EPT
