On July 12 2013 00:32 theking1 wrote: Westside!! I can not believe how many people are defending career criminals here on this forum.You guys do realize that MOST of the people in the California penitenciary system are members of some criminal orgnization such as The bloods,Crips,Arian Brotherhood,Mexiacan Mafia,MS13, 18th street gangmSurenos,Skinheads,Noestra Familia,Latin Kings,Vice Lords,Drug Cartels etc.These are people who either commited dozens of murders and would slice you for a bag of Marijuana.It is litterally impossible to survive in a west coast penitenciarry without being gang affiliated.Thise people ar e not in there for fun.In fact judges in Cali give very light jail sentences for the sole reason of overpopulation of the penitenciarry system.MOST of the poeple in there are cold blooded murders who would kill you and your family for 100$.
And btw regarding solitary confinment i saw many people here lying that you can get to solitary for nothing.Wrong.You go to solitary for things such as contraband,assaulting an officer,assaulting other inmates etc.In other words they ar ein solitary to protect other inmates and guards from being murdered.If you guys want more background of what happens in Cali prisons check out Lockdownraw or the natgeographic documentaries on youtube.
here are some eloquent ones for you:
These people are in solitary cuase they are a threat to the other inmates.You would not want to be in prison for tax evasion and be in a cell with a member of theArian Bortherhood who would kill you for not being th eright skin color.
@plexa your arguments work well with small time criminals.Here we are talking about life long gangbangers who kill and die for their gang,The ones that escape the gang do that due to their own will and after spending decade sin jail.DO not try and confuse a low time criminal with a killer from ms13.
30K is a lot of people. I am going to assume that there are all sorts of criminals in the California prision system. Also, that system is known for being terrible. They were recently ordered by the Supreme Court to either release some inmates or build more prisions. This was after 10 years of litigation involving over crowding due to the state's inability to fund their prisions correctly. They were ordered over and over to comply and stop the overcrowding. California just ignored the orders until the Supreme Court finally had to rule on it and step in.
This is nothing new, California sucks as running prisions. They have for a long time. They refuse to spend money on them or reform their pratices and we will hear more of this in the future until someone deals with the issue.
Man their are a lot of really arrogant post's in this thread about basic human rights, and the American prison system.
There are a lot of prisons systems that vary a lot in the U.S. California has one of the worst prison systems in the U.S. worst for gaurds, and convicts.
Just because someone commited a crime doesn't mean we should strip them of basic human rights, or that they are a evil person, or that they aren't still human.
Prison is suppose to be a rehabilitation center, and many of the people in prison are there for basic drug offenses which is just terribly stupid.
Rather then trying to improve these people's social abilities, lets just remove the sanity that they have by locking them away from any social time. All this does is make things worse.
I always find it funny that conservative people who are "Jesus loving" "christians" tend to be the ones who say "they deserve it" or "rot in hell"
It's ok, you can get tickets for sagging your pants, or spitting on the ground, these people are criminals.....
On July 12 2013 00:58 sva wrote: Man their are a lot of really arrogant post's in this thread about basic human rights, and the American prison system.
There are a lot of prisons systems that vary a lot in the U.S. California has one of the worst prison systems in the U.S. worst for gaurds, and convicts.
Just because someone commited a crime doesn't mean we should strip them of basic human rights, or that they are a evil person, or that they aren't still human.
Prison is suppose to be a rehabilitation center, and many of the people in prison are there for basic drug offenses which is just terribly stupid.
Rather then trying to improve these people's social abilities, lets just remove the sanity that they have by locking them away from any social time. All this does is make things worse.
I always find it funny that conservative people who are "Jesus loving" "christians" tend to be the ones who say "they deserve it" or "rot in hell"
It's ok, you can get tickets for sagging your pants, or spitting on the ground, these people are criminals.....
Oh humanity, I wish you were universal.
In Indiana you can now go to jail for applying for a same sex marriage.
On July 12 2013 00:32 theking1 wrote: Westside!! I can not believe how many people are defending career criminals here on this forum.You guys do realize that MOST of the people in the California penitenciary system are members of some criminal orgnization such as The bloods,Crips,Arian Brotherhood,Mexiacan Mafia,MS13, 18th street gangmSurenos,Skinheads,Noestra Familia,Latin Kings,Vice Lords,Drug Cartels etc.These are people who either commited dozens of murders and would slice you for a bag of Marijuana.It is litterally impossible to survive in a west coast penitenciarry without being gang affiliated.Thise people ar e not in there for fun.In fact judges in Cali give very light jail sentences for the sole reason of overpopulation of the penitenciarry system.MOST of the poeple in there are cold blooded murders who would kill you and your family for 100$.
And btw regarding solitary confinment i saw many people here lying that you can get to solitary for nothing.Wrong.You go to solitary for things such as contraband,assaulting an officer,assaulting other inmates etc.In other words they ar ein solitary to protect other inmates and guards from being murdered.If you guys want more background of what happens in Cali prisons check out Lockdownraw or the natgeographic documentaries on youtube.
These people are in solitary cuase they are a threat to the other inmates.You would not want to be in prison for tax evasion and be in a cell with a member of theArian Bortherhood who would kill you for not being th eright skin color.
@plexa your arguments work well with small time criminals.Here we are talking about life long gangbangers who kill and die for their gang,The ones that escape the gang do that due to their own will and after spending decade sin jail.DO not try and confuse a low time criminal with a killer from ms13.
No, we don't because we don't consider a saturday night drama series to be indicative of prison life.
its a documentary based on FACTS and all rpeorts say the same thing.
No, actually it's not. They focus on the ooooh scary badass gangster type criminals and show all their evil deeds while ignoring the compliant prisoners and the corrupt prison guards. They also don't go into the whole "Yeah we put people in solitary a lot to make room for new prisoners." http://www.corrections.com/news/article/23579-deviance-and-corruption
On July 12 2013 00:32 theking1 wrote: Westside!! I can not believe how many people are defending career criminals here on this forum.You guys do realize that MOST of the people in the California penitenciary system are members of some criminal orgnization such as The bloods,Crips,Arian Brotherhood,Mexiacan Mafia,MS13, 18th street gangmSurenos,Skinheads,Noestra Familia,Latin Kings,Vice Lords,Drug Cartels etc.These are people who either commited dozens of murders and would slice you for a bag of Marijuana.It is litterally impossible to survive in a west coast penitenciarry without being gang affiliated.Thise people ar e not in there for fun.In fact judges in Cali give very light jail sentences for the sole reason of overpopulation of the penitenciarry system.MOST of the poeple in there are cold blooded murders who would kill you and your family for 100$.
And btw regarding solitary confinment i saw many people here lying that you can get to solitary for nothing.Wrong.You go to solitary for things such as contraband,assaulting an officer,assaulting other inmates etc.In other words they ar ein solitary to protect other inmates and guards from being murdered.If you guys want more background of what happens in Cali prisons check out Lockdownraw or the natgeographic documentaries on youtube.
These people are in solitary cuase they are a threat to the other inmates.You would not want to be in prison for tax evasion and be in a cell with a member of theArian Bortherhood who would kill you for not being th eright skin color.
@plexa your arguments work well with small time criminals.Here we are talking about life long gangbangers who kill and die for their gang,The ones that escape the gang do that due to their own will and after spending decade sin jail.DO not try and confuse a low time criminal with a killer from ms13.
30K is a lot of people. I am going to assume that there are all sorts of criminals in the California prision system. Also, that system is known for being terrible. They were recently ordered by the Supreme Court to either release some inmates or build more prisions. This was after 10 years of litigation involving over crowding due to the state's inability to fund their prisions correctly. They were ordered over and over to comply and stop the overcrowding. California just ignored the orders until the Supreme Court finally had to rule on it and step in.
This is nothing new, California sucks as running prisions. They have for a long time. They refuse to spend money on them or reform their pratices and we will hear more of this in the future until someone deals with the issue.
There are lots of cases were these "Carrer crimnals" change their ways, or change their lives. Leave the gang, escape the violent path. The problem is that how is it possible for anyone to do that if the only environment they have is either violence, the current shitty prison system, or solitary confinement. One good example of this is man named Michael Thompson, of the Aryan Brotherhood. He's murdered lots of people, and would basically kill your for anything, but now he is an informant, made friends with a black cellmate. People can change, and better themselves, not everyone, but it can work with a snowball effect.
On July 11 2013 10:48 GhostOwl wrote: They will eventually eat. Let them perform their hunger strike. There is a reason why they are in prison in the first place. Once they have commited the crimes that landed them in prison, their basic rights were taken away. They don't deserve the same rights as normal citizens.
You could have just closed the thread after this post. In few years we will have people condaming prisons too, because that's 'against human rights'. Ahh, the moralism.
On July 11 2013 10:48 GhostOwl wrote: They will eventually eat. Let them perform their hunger strike. There is a reason why they are in prison in the first place. Once they have commited the crimes that landed them in prison, their basic rights were taken away. They don't deserve the same rights as normal citizens.
You could have just closed the thread after this post. In few years we will have people condaming prisons too, because that's 'against human rights'. Ahh, the moralism.
I think you are missing what I see as the core of the discussion. Should a prison punish, rehabilitate, be a mental institution or be a mix of these things?
On July 12 2013 00:32 theking1 wrote: Westside!! I can not believe how many people are defending career criminals here on this forum.You guys do realize that MOST of the people in the California penitenciary system are members of some criminal orgnization such as The bloods,Crips,Arian Brotherhood,Mexiacan Mafia,MS13, 18th street gangmSurenos,Skinheads,Noestra Familia,Latin Kings,Vice Lords,Drug Cartels etc.These are people who either commited dozens of murders and would slice you for a bag of Marijuana.It is litterally impossible to survive in a west coast penitenciarry without being gang affiliated.Thise people ar e not in there for fun.In fact judges in Cali give very light jail sentences for the sole reason of overpopulation of the penitenciarry system.MOST of the poeple in there are cold blooded murders who would kill you and your family for 100$.
And btw regarding solitary confinment i saw many people here lying that you can get to solitary for nothing.Wrong.You go to solitary for things such as contraband,assaulting an officer,assaulting other inmates etc.In other words they ar ein solitary to protect other inmates and guards from being murdered.If you guys want more background of what happens in Cali prisons check out Lockdownraw or the natgeographic documentaries on youtube.
These people are in solitary cuase they are a threat to the other inmates.You would not want to be in prison for tax evasion and be in a cell with a member of theArian Bortherhood who would kill you for not being th eright skin color.
@plexa your arguments work well with small time criminals.Here we are talking about life long gangbangers who kill and die for their gang,The ones that escape the gang do that due to their own will and after spending decade sin jail.DO not try and confuse a low time criminal with a killer from ms13.
30K is a lot of people. I am going to assume that there are all sorts of criminals in the California prision system. Also, that system is known for being terrible. They were recently ordered by the Supreme Court to either release some inmates or build more prisions. This was after 10 years of litigation involving over crowding due to the state's inability to fund their prisions correctly. They were ordered over and over to comply and stop the overcrowding. California just ignored the orders until the Supreme Court finally had to rule on it and step in.
This is nothing new, California sucks as running prisions. They have for a long time. They refuse to spend money on them or reform their pratices and we will hear more of this in the future until someone deals with the issue.
You are right about the conditions but they should have thought about that before commiting heinous crimes The article is about solitary confinement prisoners.You land in solitary confinement if you a)get caught with contraband b)assault a guard or another inmate it is preety unfair for a guy who is in jail for not paying his taxes to be in the same cell with another inmate convicted for life for murder who can basicly murder him rape him at his own will without anything happening to him.That is what solitary confinement is for.To protect the regular criminals form the monsters.If you are in jail for life you can do what you want and not give a damn cause they can not add anything to your sentence.
@sva that guy changed his ways after murdering 2 people while free and god knows how many while in prison.He only stepped up when members of the brotherhood themselves were targeted.Btw you do not get to the leadership of the arian brotherhood by jaiwalking.It is blood in blood out.
On July 11 2013 10:48 GhostOwl wrote: They will eventually eat. Let them perform their hunger strike. There is a reason why they are in prison in the first place. Once they have commited the crimes that landed them in prison, their basic rights were taken away. They don't deserve the same rights as normal citizens.
You could have just closed the thread after this post. In few years we will have people condaming prisons too, because that's 'against human rights'. Ahh, the moralism.
I think you are missing what I see as the core of the discussion. Should a prison punish, rehabilitate, be a mental institution or be a mix of these things?
The post above me explains it. It's about solitary confinement.
On July 12 2013 00:32 theking1 wrote: Westside!! I can not believe how many people are defending career criminals here on this forum.You guys do realize that MOST of the people in the California penitenciary system are members of some criminal orgnization such as The bloods,Crips,Arian Brotherhood,Mexiacan Mafia,MS13, 18th street gangmSurenos,Skinheads,Noestra Familia,Latin Kings,Vice Lords,Drug Cartels etc.These are people who either commited dozens of murders and would slice you for a bag of Marijuana.It is litterally impossible to survive in a west coast penitenciarry without being gang affiliated.Thise people ar e not in there for fun.In fact judges in Cali give very light jail sentences for the sole reason of overpopulation of the penitenciarry system.MOST of the poeple in there are cold blooded murders who would kill you and your family for 100$.
And btw regarding solitary confinment i saw many people here lying that you can get to solitary for nothing.Wrong.You go to solitary for things such as contraband,assaulting an officer,assaulting other inmates etc.In other words they ar ein solitary to protect other inmates and guards from being murdered.If you guys want more background of what happens in Cali prisons check out Lockdownraw or the natgeographic documentaries on youtube.
These people are in solitary cuase they are a threat to the other inmates.You would not want to be in prison for tax evasion and be in a cell with a member of theArian Bortherhood who would kill you for not being th eright skin color.
@plexa your arguments work well with small time criminals.Here we are talking about life long gangbangers who kill and die for their gang,The ones that escape the gang do that due to their own will and after spending decade sin jail.DO not try and confuse a low time criminal with a killer from ms13.
30K is a lot of people. I am going to assume that there are all sorts of criminals in the California prision system. Also, that system is known for being terrible. They were recently ordered by the Supreme Court to either release some inmates or build more prisions. This was after 10 years of litigation involving over crowding due to the state's inability to fund their prisions correctly. They were ordered over and over to comply and stop the overcrowding. California just ignored the orders until the Supreme Court finally had to rule on it and step in.
This is nothing new, California sucks as running prisions. They have for a long time. They refuse to spend money on them or reform their pratices and we will hear more of this in the future until someone deals with the issue.
You are right about the conditions but they should have thought about that before commiting heinous crimes The article is about solitary confinement prisoners.You land in solitary confinement if you a)get caught with contraband b)assault a guard or another inmate it is preety unfair for a guy who is in jail for not paying his taxes to be in the same cell with another inmate convicted for life for murder who can basicly murder him rape him at his own will without anything happening to him.That is what solitary confinement is for.To protect the regular criminals form the monsters.If you are in jail for life you can do what you want and not give a damn cause they can not add anything to your sentence.
@sva that guy changed his ways after murdering 2 people while free and god knows how many while in prison.He only stepped up when members of the brotherhood themselves were targeted.Btw you do not get to the leadership of the arian brotherhood by jaiwalking.It is blood in blood out.
c. another prisoner claims you're in a prison gang d. They run out of space for new people e. You rub an officer the wrong way
On July 12 2013 00:32 theking1 wrote: Westside!! I can not believe how many people are defending career criminals here on this forum.You guys do realize that MOST of the people in the California penitenciary system are members of some criminal orgnization such as The bloods,Crips,Arian Brotherhood,Mexiacan Mafia,MS13, 18th street gangmSurenos,Skinheads,Noestra Familia,Latin Kings,Vice Lords,Drug Cartels etc.These are people who either commited dozens of murders and would slice you for a bag of Marijuana.It is litterally impossible to survive in a west coast penitenciarry without being gang affiliated.Thise people ar e not in there for fun.In fact judges in Cali give very light jail sentences for the sole reason of overpopulation of the penitenciarry system.MOST of the poeple in there are cold blooded murders who would kill you and your family for 100$.
And btw regarding solitary confinment i saw many people here lying that you can get to solitary for nothing.Wrong.You go to solitary for things such as contraband,assaulting an officer,assaulting other inmates etc.In other words they ar ein solitary to protect other inmates and guards from being murdered.If you guys want more background of what happens in Cali prisons check out Lockdownraw or the natgeographic documentaries on youtube.
These people are in solitary cuase they are a threat to the other inmates.You would not want to be in prison for tax evasion and be in a cell with a member of theArian Bortherhood who would kill you for not being th eright skin color.
@plexa your arguments work well with small time criminals.Here we are talking about life long gangbangers who kill and die for their gang,The ones that escape the gang do that due to their own will and after spending decade sin jail.DO not try and confuse a low time criminal with a killer from ms13.
30K is a lot of people. I am going to assume that there are all sorts of criminals in the California prision system. Also, that system is known for being terrible. They were recently ordered by the Supreme Court to either release some inmates or build more prisions. This was after 10 years of litigation involving over crowding due to the state's inability to fund their prisions correctly. They were ordered over and over to comply and stop the overcrowding. California just ignored the orders until the Supreme Court finally had to rule on it and step in.
This is nothing new, California sucks as running prisions. They have for a long time. They refuse to spend money on them or reform their pratices and we will hear more of this in the future until someone deals with the issue.
You are right about the conditions but they should have thought about that before commiting heinous crimes The article is about solitary confinement prisoners.You land in solitary confinement if you a)get caught with contraband b)assault a guard or another inmate it is preety unfair for a guy who is in jail for not paying his taxes to be in the same cell with another inmate convicted for life for murder who can basicly murder him rape him at his own will without anything happening to him.That is what solitary confinement is for.To protect the regular criminals form the monsters.If you are in jail for life you can do what you want and not give a damn cause they can not add anything to your sentence.
@sva that guy changed his ways after murdering 2 people while free and god knows how many while in prison.He only stepped up when members of the brotherhood themselves were targeted.Btw you do not get to the leadership of the arian brotherhood by jaiwalking.It is blood in blood out.
You make the mistake of assuming that the people running the prison are using good practices when taking care of the inmates. Further more, I could give to shits what happens to murders and rapist, but how we treat them reflects on us as a whole. The idea that people who committed crimes should be treated like animals is not acceptable and all the arguments you put forward mean very little. The highest court in the US agrees too.
California sucks at running prisons. They treat their prisoners like trash and well below the standard that we in the US expect. They are an embarrassment on the US for doing so. This has been going on for years.
This is what I don't understand: we are basically punishing prisoners for violating laws, NOT transgressions against humanity. So basically, we can act in inhumane ways towards those who deserve it legally so long as it is sanctioned by law. It just doesn't sit right with me, and eventually, that very attitude will come back to those who think it's within their rights (either individually or as an institution) to act just like the "animals" who got themselves there because they "chose" to do so. (I'm kind of an anti-free will kind of guy).
This is one of those "which are the doctors? which the inmates?" kind of issue for me. We answer brutality with more brutality, but change the titles so it doesn't look like we're brutal. No, we're just enacting the very brutality these people deserve for their crimes. The problem is it then becomes cyclical.
On July 12 2013 00:32 theking1 wrote: Westside!! I can not believe how many people are defending career criminals here on this forum.You guys do realize that MOST of the people in the California penitenciary system are members of some criminal orgnization such as The bloods,Crips,Arian Brotherhood,Mexiacan Mafia,MS13, 18th street gangmSurenos,Skinheads,Noestra Familia,Latin Kings,Vice Lords,Drug Cartels etc.These are people who either commited dozens of murders and would slice you for a bag of Marijuana.It is litterally impossible to survive in a west coast penitenciarry without being gang affiliated.Thise people ar e not in there for fun.In fact judges in Cali give very light jail sentences for the sole reason of overpopulation of the penitenciarry system.MOST of the poeple in there are cold blooded murders who would kill you and your family for 100$.
And btw regarding solitary confinment i saw many people here lying that you can get to solitary for nothing.Wrong.You go to solitary for things such as contraband,assaulting an officer,assaulting other inmates etc.In other words they ar ein solitary to protect other inmates and guards from being murdered.If you guys want more background of what happens in Cali prisons check out Lockdownraw or the natgeographic documentaries on youtube.
These people are in solitary cuase they are a threat to the other inmates.You would not want to be in prison for tax evasion and be in a cell with a member of theArian Bortherhood who would kill you for not being th eright skin color.
@plexa your arguments work well with small time criminals.Here we are talking about life long gangbangers who kill and die for their gang,The ones that escape the gang do that due to their own will and after spending decade sin jail.DO not try and confuse a low time criminal with a killer from ms13.
30K is a lot of people. I am going to assume that there are all sorts of criminals in the California prision system. Also, that system is known for being terrible. They were recently ordered by the Supreme Court to either release some inmates or build more prisions. This was after 10 years of litigation involving over crowding due to the state's inability to fund their prisions correctly. They were ordered over and over to comply and stop the overcrowding. California just ignored the orders until the Supreme Court finally had to rule on it and step in.
This is nothing new, California sucks as running prisions. They have for a long time. They refuse to spend money on them or reform their pratices and we will hear more of this in the future until someone deals with the issue.
You are right about the conditions but they should have thought about that before commiting heinous crimes The article is about solitary confinement prisoners.You land in solitary confinement if you a)get caught with contraband b)assault a guard or another inmate it is preety unfair for a guy who is in jail for not paying his taxes to be in the same cell with another inmate convicted for life for murder who can basicly murder him rape him at his own will without anything happening to him.That is what solitary confinement is for.To protect the regular criminals form the monsters.If you are in jail for life you can do what you want and not give a damn cause they can not add anything to your sentence.
@sva that guy changed his ways after murdering 2 people while free and god knows how many while in prison.He only stepped up when members of the brotherhood themselves were targeted.Btw you do not get to the leadership of the arian brotherhood by jaiwalking.It is blood in blood out.
c. another prisoner claims you're in a prison gang d. They run out of space for new people e. You rub an officer the wrong way
offer evidence.i offered you evidence.The website that you linked offered only theoretical situations not one example.Show me a real situation where a criminal when to solitary when another inmate claimed that he was a gang memeber.There are none.Cause for you to be identified as a gang memeber you need to: a)have gang tatoos b)hang out with people form a certain gang.There is a special division in each penitenciary especially in california who deals with gang identification/gang tatoos. b)does assaulting an officer with a shank or putting memebers of your gang who are free to kill his family or throwing urine at him enters the category of "rubbing the wrong way"?
@Plansix and everybody else who thinks solitary is not deserved
try to apply high human principles to a real situation.Answer me this question please:
You are the manager of a prison.In your prison there are dozens of people convicted for life for things such as murders/rapes etc walking the same corridors and the same meal halls with prisoners in for tax evasion.One day a life convcted inmate assaults with a shank another inmate.What do you do with the assailant?Even if you give him more years it doesnt matter cause he already has life.You can't execute him cause his actions do not require the death sentence.What do you do?And I want a practical answer.
On July 12 2013 00:32 theking1 wrote: Westside!! I can not believe how many people are defending career criminals here on this forum.You guys do realize that MOST of the people in the California penitenciary system are members of some criminal orgnization such as The bloods,Crips,Arian Brotherhood,Mexiacan Mafia,MS13, 18th street gangmSurenos,Skinheads,Noestra Familia,Latin Kings,Vice Lords,Drug Cartels etc.These are people who either commited dozens of murders and would slice you for a bag of Marijuana.It is litterally impossible to survive in a west coast penitenciarry without being gang affiliated.Thise people ar e not in there for fun.In fact judges in Cali give very light jail sentences for the sole reason of overpopulation of the penitenciarry system.MOST of the poeple in there are cold blooded murders who would kill you and your family for 100$.
And btw regarding solitary confinment i saw many people here lying that you can get to solitary for nothing.Wrong.You go to solitary for things such as contraband,assaulting an officer,assaulting other inmates etc.In other words they ar ein solitary to protect other inmates and guards from being murdered.If you guys want more background of what happens in Cali prisons check out Lockdownraw or the natgeographic documentaries on youtube.
These people are in solitary cuase they are a threat to the other inmates.You would not want to be in prison for tax evasion and be in a cell with a member of theArian Bortherhood who would kill you for not being th eright skin color.
@plexa your arguments work well with small time criminals.Here we are talking about life long gangbangers who kill and die for their gang,The ones that escape the gang do that due to their own will and after spending decade sin jail.DO not try and confuse a low time criminal with a killer from ms13.
30K is a lot of people. I am going to assume that there are all sorts of criminals in the California prision system. Also, that system is known for being terrible. They were recently ordered by the Supreme Court to either release some inmates or build more prisions. This was after 10 years of litigation involving over crowding due to the state's inability to fund their prisions correctly. They were ordered over and over to comply and stop the overcrowding. California just ignored the orders until the Supreme Court finally had to rule on it and step in.
This is nothing new, California sucks as running prisions. They have for a long time. They refuse to spend money on them or reform their pratices and we will hear more of this in the future until someone deals with the issue.
You are right about the conditions but they should have thought about that before commiting heinous crimes The article is about solitary confinement prisoners.You land in solitary confinement if you a)get caught with contraband b)assault a guard or another inmate it is preety unfair for a guy who is in jail for not paying his taxes to be in the same cell with another inmate convicted for life for murder who can basicly murder him rape him at his own will without anything happening to him.That is what solitary confinement is for.To protect the regular criminals form the monsters.If you are in jail for life you can do what you want and not give a damn cause they can not add anything to your sentence.
@sva that guy changed his ways after murdering 2 people while free and god knows how many while in prison.He only stepped up when members of the brotherhood themselves were targeted.Btw you do not get to the leadership of the arian brotherhood by jaiwalking.It is blood in blood out.
It doesn't change the fact that people can change if they are given a chance.
And I feel like you are under the impression that the gaurds and people running the prison are "good" "moral" people. I'm sorry, but a lot of the people in these jobs are not morally sound. It's similiar to how our police force is now ran like a military unit, being told constantly that they are at war. You can go to jail in the US for having oral sex with your girlfriend.
There are a lot of really ridiculous laws that different places have in state that will put you in jail.
On July 12 2013 00:32 theking1 wrote: Westside!! I can not believe how many people are defending career criminals here on this forum.You guys do realize that MOST of the people in the California penitenciary system are members of some criminal orgnization such as The bloods,Crips,Arian Brotherhood,Mexiacan Mafia,MS13, 18th street gangmSurenos,Skinheads,Noestra Familia,Latin Kings,Vice Lords,Drug Cartels etc.These are people who either commited dozens of murders and would slice you for a bag of Marijuana.It is litterally impossible to survive in a west coast penitenciarry without being gang affiliated.Thise people ar e not in there for fun.In fact judges in Cali give very light jail sentences for the sole reason of overpopulation of the penitenciarry system.MOST of the poeple in there are cold blooded murders who would kill you and your family for 100$.
And btw regarding solitary confinment i saw many people here lying that you can get to solitary for nothing.Wrong.You go to solitary for things such as contraband,assaulting an officer,assaulting other inmates etc.In other words they ar ein solitary to protect other inmates and guards from being murdered.If you guys want more background of what happens in Cali prisons check out Lockdownraw or the natgeographic documentaries on youtube.
These people are in solitary cuase they are a threat to the other inmates.You would not want to be in prison for tax evasion and be in a cell with a member of theArian Bortherhood who would kill you for not being th eright skin color.
@plexa your arguments work well with small time criminals.Here we are talking about life long gangbangers who kill and die for their gang,The ones that escape the gang do that due to their own will and after spending decade sin jail.DO not try and confuse a low time criminal with a killer from ms13.
30K is a lot of people. I am going to assume that there are all sorts of criminals in the California prision system. Also, that system is known for being terrible. They were recently ordered by the Supreme Court to either release some inmates or build more prisions. This was after 10 years of litigation involving over crowding due to the state's inability to fund their prisions correctly. They were ordered over and over to comply and stop the overcrowding. California just ignored the orders until the Supreme Court finally had to rule on it and step in.
This is nothing new, California sucks as running prisions. They have for a long time. They refuse to spend money on them or reform their pratices and we will hear more of this in the future until someone deals with the issue.
You are right about the conditions but they should have thought about that before commiting heinous crimes The article is about solitary confinement prisoners.You land in solitary confinement if you a)get caught with contraband b)assault a guard or another inmate it is preety unfair for a guy who is in jail for not paying his taxes to be in the same cell with another inmate convicted for life for murder who can basicly murder him rape him at his own will without anything happening to him.That is what solitary confinement is for.To protect the regular criminals form the monsters.If you are in jail for life you can do what you want and not give a damn cause they can not add anything to your sentence.
@sva that guy changed his ways after murdering 2 people while free and god knows how many while in prison.He only stepped up when members of the brotherhood themselves were targeted.Btw you do not get to the leadership of the arian brotherhood by jaiwalking.It is blood in blood out.
c. another prisoner claims you're in a prison gang d. They run out of space for new people e. You rub an officer the wrong way
offer evidence.i offered you evidence.The website that you linked offered only theoretical situations not one example.Show me a real situation where a criminal when to solitary when another inmate claimed that he was a gang memeber.There are none.Cause for you to be identified as a gang memeber you need to: a)have gang tatoos b)hang out with people form a certain gang.There is a special division in each penitenciary especially in california who deals with gang identification/gang tatoos. b)does assaulting an officer with a shank or putting memebers of your gang who are free to kill his family or throwing urine at him enters the category of "rubbing the wrong way"?
@Plansix and everybody else who thinks solitary is not deserved
try to apply high human principles to a real situation.Answer me this question please:
You are the manager of a prison.In your prison there are dozens of people convicted for life for things such as murders/rapes etc walking the same corridors and the same meal halls with prisoners in for tax evasion.One day a life convcted inmate assaults with a shank another inmate.What do you do with the assailant?Even if you give him more years it doesnt matter cause he already has life.You can't execute him cause his actions do not require the death sentence.What do you do?And I want a practical answer.
I do not disagree with the use of solitary for prisoners they cannot control or who cause problems/are violent. The problem in this case is that it is OVER used. The prisons in California are so overcrowded that that the guards cannot control the population, so they use solitary in an to bring the population under control, which cases it to be over used.
Once again, you are arguing about the practice of using solitary, which is not the true discussion. The problem in California is that 30k prisoners in separate prisons decided to go on a hunger strike because California sucks at running prisons and has for 10 years.
Just because someone commited a crime doesn't mean we should strip them of basic human rights, or that they are a evil person, or that they aren't still human.
I agree. That is absolutely true. If only everyone understood that.......
There's really no reason for the needless torture of prisoners, but it's kind of scary to know that prisoners can actually go on strike.
It's also scary to know that the prisoners actually have to go on strike because no one else is standing up for them (assuming they're actually being tortured there). At least the media followed up on it though.
There's so much wrong shit in this country and abstractly with humanity in general. It's fucking depressing.
As to this particular case, we don't really know what exactly is happening so it's difficult to make a normative assessment about the situation.
Is solitary confinement torture? It probably depends on the length of time one is confined in it.
On July 12 2013 00:32 theking1 wrote: Westside!! I can not believe how many people are defending career criminals here on this forum.You guys do realize that MOST of the people in the California penitenciary system are members of some criminal orgnization such as The bloods,Crips,Arian Brotherhood,Mexiacan Mafia,MS13, 18th street gangmSurenos,Skinheads,Noestra Familia,Latin Kings,Vice Lords,Drug Cartels etc.These are people who either commited dozens of murders and would slice you for a bag of Marijuana.It is litterally impossible to survive in a west coast penitenciarry without being gang affiliated.Thise people ar e not in there for fun.In fact judges in Cali give very light jail sentences for the sole reason of overpopulation of the penitenciarry system.MOST of the poeple in there are cold blooded murders who would kill you and your family for 100$.
And btw regarding solitary confinment i saw many people here lying that you can get to solitary for nothing.Wrong.You go to solitary for things such as contraband,assaulting an officer,assaulting other inmates etc.In other words they ar ein solitary to protect other inmates and guards from being murdered.If you guys want more background of what happens in Cali prisons check out Lockdownraw or the natgeographic documentaries on youtube.
These people are in solitary cuase they are a threat to the other inmates.You would not want to be in prison for tax evasion and be in a cell with a member of theArian Bortherhood who would kill you for not being th eright skin color.
@plexa your arguments work well with small time criminals.Here we are talking about life long gangbangers who kill and die for their gang,The ones that escape the gang do that due to their own will and after spending decade sin jail.DO not try and confuse a low time criminal with a killer from ms13.
30K is a lot of people. I am going to assume that there are all sorts of criminals in the California prision system. Also, that system is known for being terrible. They were recently ordered by the Supreme Court to either release some inmates or build more prisions. This was after 10 years of litigation involving over crowding due to the state's inability to fund their prisions correctly. They were ordered over and over to comply and stop the overcrowding. California just ignored the orders until the Supreme Court finally had to rule on it and step in.
This is nothing new, California sucks as running prisions. They have for a long time. They refuse to spend money on them or reform their pratices and we will hear more of this in the future until someone deals with the issue.
You are right about the conditions but they should have thought about that before commiting heinous crimes The article is about solitary confinement prisoners.You land in solitary confinement if you a)get caught with contraband b)assault a guard or another inmate it is preety unfair for a guy who is in jail for not paying his taxes to be in the same cell with another inmate convicted for life for murder who can basicly murder him rape him at his own will without anything happening to him.That is what solitary confinement is for.To protect the regular criminals form the monsters.If you are in jail for life you can do what you want and not give a damn cause they can not add anything to your sentence.
@sva that guy changed his ways after murdering 2 people while free and god knows how many while in prison.He only stepped up when members of the brotherhood themselves were targeted.Btw you do not get to the leadership of the arian brotherhood by jaiwalking.It is blood in blood out.
c. another prisoner claims you're in a prison gang d. They run out of space for new people e. You rub an officer the wrong way
offer evidence.i offered you evidence.The website that you linked offered only theoretical situations not one example.Show me a real situation where a criminal when to solitary when another inmate claimed that he was a gang memeber.There are none.Cause for you to be identified as a gang memeber you need to: a)have gang tatoos b)hang out with people form a certain gang.There is a special division in each penitenciary especially in california who deals with gang identification/gang tatoos. b)does assaulting an officer with a shank or putting memebers of your gang who are free to kill his family or throwing urine at him enters the category of "rubbing the wrong way"?
@Plansix and everybody else who thinks solitary is not deserved
try to apply high human principles to a real situation.Answer me this question please:
You are the manager of a prison.In your prison there are dozens of people convicted for life for things such as murders/rapes etc walking the same corridors and the same meal halls with prisoners in for tax evasion.One day a life convcted inmate assaults with a shank another inmate.What do you do with the assailant?Even if you give him more years it doesnt matter cause he already has life.You can't execute him cause his actions do not require the death sentence.What do you do?And I want a practical answer.
I do not disagree with the use of solitary for prisoners they cannot control or who cause problems/are violent. The problem in this case is that it is OVER used. The prisons in California are so overcrowded that that the guards cannot control the population, so they use solitary in an to bring the population under control, which cases it to be over used.
Once again, you are arguing about the practice of using solitary, which is not the true discussion. The problem in California is that 30k prisoners in separate prisons decided to go on a hunger strike because California sucks at running prisons and has for 10 years.
I have just red the New York Times article.Apparently the warden of the prison already released low level offenders.And the hunger strike was started by a few people at pelican Bay,a supermax prison designed to house "the worst of the worst" notorious for housing some of the most dangerous gangs in the US.You do not get into peican bay for swearing in the church and you do not get in solitary confinement in pelican bay for jaywalking.the people there have probably commited many murders.I would not be surprised if the hunger strikers were all gang members.
You can not release gang memebrs into the streets.Nor can you build hundreds of new prisons to accomodate an increasing number of offenders.The bottom line is the honest hardworking citizens must be protected from criminals.And there is also a saying:"don't do the crime if ya can't do the time".the gang leaders who are in solitary confinemnt at Pelican Bay should of tought about that before ordering murders,kidnaps,ransoms,robberies etc
Btw form what i have seen in the documentary they live better than Romanian prisoners.Those people live 25 in a room with about 4 cubic meters of oxigen each which is below the 8 cubic meters imposed by european law.Do I care?No.cause most of them would kill me for the 10 euros in my pocket and would rape my entire family if they did a home invasion.
@ggtemplar
they have good lawyers and most of them know the penal code better than the lawyers themselves.If they were actually mistreated they would sue the state for millions of dollars and win.They should have thought about bad conditions before mudering innocents/raping innocent women or robbing innocent people.
EPT
