Their human rights aren't being violated here, they are given food, water, and shelter. They just want better conditions that they have been given to them. They have broken the rules of society and are paying the price. If they don't want to eat then that is their choice, they offered them the food and they refused it. Overcrowding is a problem in CA prisons, however that doesn't mean that they deserve better conditions for being criminals.
Just because someone commited a crime doesn't mean we should strip them of basic human rights, or that they are a evil person, or that they aren't still human.
I agree. That is absolutely true. If only everyone understood that.......
I find it rediculous that icon's like Robin Hood are so wildly praised, yet Mexican's who leave mexico for a better life are so criminalized. Our society has some rediculous issues trying to keep things straight.
On July 12 2013 02:02 Dubhghall wrote: Their human rights aren't being violated here, they are given food, water, and shelter. They just want better conditions that they have been given to them. They have broken the rules of society and are paying the price. If they don't want to eat then that is their choice, they offered them the food and they refused it. Overcrowding is a problem in CA prisons, however that doesn't mean that they deserve better conditions for being criminals.
Even they get treated better than homeless people in America.
Just because someone commited a crime doesn't mean we should strip them of basic human rights, or that they are a evil person, or that they aren't still human.
I agree. That is absolutely true. If only everyone understood that.......
I find it rediculous that icon's like Robin Hood are so wildly praised, yet Mexican's who leave mexico for a better life are so criminalized. Our society has some rediculous issues trying to keep things straight.
You have not even red the innitial post nor the articles attached to the OP.You are just derailing the thread to impose your agenda.The strike was started by solitary confinement inmates at Pelican bay, a supermax prison.You get there only if you have serious gang affiliation charges or have commited a serious crime such as armed robbery/assault/rape murder.Those are the worst of the worst.
illegally crossing the border in the USA gets you max 7 days in jail and a trip back to Mexico.You do not get solitary confinement at Pelican bay for illegally crossing the border.Stop derailing.
On July 12 2013 00:32 theking1 wrote: Westside!! I can not believe how many people are defending career criminals here on this forum.You guys do realize that MOST of the people in the California penitenciary system are members of some criminal orgnization such as The bloods,Crips,Arian Brotherhood,Mexiacan Mafia,MS13, 18th street gangmSurenos,Skinheads,Noestra Familia,Latin Kings,Vice Lords,Drug Cartels etc.These are people who either commited dozens of murders and would slice you for a bag of Marijuana.It is litterally impossible to survive in a west coast penitenciarry without being gang affiliated.Thise people ar e not in there for fun.In fact judges in Cali give very light jail sentences for the sole reason of overpopulation of the penitenciarry system.MOST of the poeple in there are cold blooded murders who would kill you and your family for 100$.
And btw regarding solitary confinment i saw many people here lying that you can get to solitary for nothing.Wrong.You go to solitary for things such as contraband,assaulting an officer,assaulting other inmates etc.In other words they ar ein solitary to protect other inmates and guards from being murdered.If you guys want more background of what happens in Cali prisons check out Lockdownraw or the natgeographic documentaries on youtube.
here are some eloquent ones for you:
These people are in solitary cuase they are a threat to the other inmates.You would not want to be in prison for tax evasion and be in a cell with a member of theArian Bortherhood who would kill you for not being th eright skin color.
@plexa your arguments work well with small time criminals.Here we are talking about life long gangbangers who kill and die for their gang,The ones that escape the gang do that due to their own will and after spending decade sin jail.DO not try and confuse a low time criminal with a killer from ms13.
30K is a lot of people. I am going to assume that there are all sorts of criminals in the California prision system. Also, that system is known for being terrible. They were recently ordered by the Supreme Court to either release some inmates or build more prisions. This was after 10 years of litigation involving over crowding due to the state's inability to fund their prisions correctly. They were ordered over and over to comply and stop the overcrowding. California just ignored the orders until the Supreme Court finally had to rule on it and step in.
This is nothing new, California sucks as running prisions. They have for a long time. They refuse to spend money on them or reform their pratices and we will hear more of this in the future until someone deals with the issue.
You are right about the conditions but they should have thought about that before commiting heinous crimes The article is about solitary confinement prisoners.You land in solitary confinement if you a)get caught with contraband b)assault a guard or another inmate it is preety unfair for a guy who is in jail for not paying his taxes to be in the same cell with another inmate convicted for life for murder who can basicly murder him rape him at his own will without anything happening to him.That is what solitary confinement is for.To protect the regular criminals form the monsters.If you are in jail for life you can do what you want and not give a damn cause they can not add anything to your sentence.
@sva that guy changed his ways after murdering 2 people while free and god knows how many while in prison.He only stepped up when members of the brotherhood themselves were targeted.Btw you do not get to the leadership of the arian brotherhood by jaiwalking.It is blood in blood out.
c. another prisoner claims you're in a prison gang d. They run out of space for new people e. You rub an officer the wrong way
offer evidence.i offered you evidence.The website that you linked offered only theoretical situations not one example.Show me a real situation where a criminal when to solitary when another inmate claimed that he was a gang memeber.There are none.Cause for you to be identified as a gang memeber you need to: a)have gang tatoos b)hang out with people form a certain gang.There is a special division in each penitenciary especially in california who deals with gang identification/gang tatoos. b)does assaulting an officer with a shank or putting memebers of your gang who are free to kill his family or throwing urine at him enters the category of "rubbing the wrong way"?
@Plansix and everybody else who thinks solitary is not deserved
try to apply high human principles to a real situation.Answer me this question please:
You are the manager of a prison.In your prison there are dozens of people convicted for life for things such as murders/rapes etc walking the same corridors and the same meal halls with prisoners in for tax evasion.One day a life convcted inmate assaults with a shank another inmate.What do you do with the assailant?Even if you give him more years it doesnt matter cause he already has life.You can't execute him cause his actions do not require the death sentence.What do you do?And I want a practical answer.
I do not disagree with the use of solitary for prisoners they cannot control or who cause problems/are violent. The problem in this case is that it is OVER used. The prisons in California are so overcrowded that that the guards cannot control the population, so they use solitary in an to bring the population under control, which cases it to be over used.
Once again, you are arguing about the practice of using solitary, which is not the true discussion. The problem in California is that 30k prisoners in separate prisons decided to go on a hunger strike because California sucks at running prisons and has for 10 years.
I have just red the New York Times article.Apparently the warden of the prison already released low level offenders.And the hunger strike was started by a few people at pelican Bay,a supermax prison designed to house "the worst of the worst" notorious for housing some of the most dangerous gangs in the US.You do not get into peican bay for swearing in the church and you do not get in solitary confinement in pelican bay for jaywalking.the people there have probably commited many murders.I would not be surprised if the hunger strikers were all gang members.
You can not release gang memebrs into the streets.Nor can you build hundreds of new prisons to accomodate an increasing number of offenders.The bottom line is the honest hardworking citizens must be protected from criminals.And there is also a saying:"don't do the crime if ya can't do the time".the gang leaders who are in solitary confinemnt at Pelican Bay should of tought about that before ordering murders,kidnaps,ransoms,robberies etc
The court ordered the state to release 30K prisoners, of which they have released 10K. Also, it points out that 10,000 inmates are being held in solitary confinement(in 2011, when the ruling came down). There is no way that all 10,000 inmates needed to be there.
Also, I read the article you cited and this quote was at the end:
“Officials have this bunker mentality, but now it’s like a house of cards is falling down,” Ms. Strickman said. “There have been so many problems for decades, and now they are being forced to deal with them all at once.”
California has had this problem for over 10 years and had not addressed it. They have not complied with the order from the Supreme Court and have not worked to address the issue. They imprison to many people and don't know how to fix the problem because it would cost money.
This has nothing to do with how bad the inmates are. It has do with the fact that California fucking sucks at running prisons and refuses to fix the problem. So now the problem is front and center and there is nothing they can do.
Stop straw manning, its not working and you are just pointing out how little you know about what is going on.
On July 12 2013 02:02 Dubhghall wrote: Their human rights aren't being violated here, they are given food, water, and shelter. They just want better conditions that they have been given to them. They have broken the rules of society and are paying the price. If they don't want to eat then that is their choice, they offered them the food and they refused it. Overcrowding is a problem in CA prisons, however that doesn't mean that they deserve better conditions for being criminals.
Even they get treated better than homeless people in America.
What a fucking joke...
Because homeless people have to worry about being beaten, raped, killed, wrongly accused, put in solitary confinement and so on for no reason, every moment of their lives....
I agree homelessness needs help in America, but please don't compare prison systems to the homeless, because it's not a comparable thing.
Education is truly whats wrong in this country, but that's another discussion.
I mean think about it this way, if we have 30,000 people protesting about the current solitary confinement policy's you can't see that their is something wrong with that? That's more then a small town of people. Don't you think the prison systems might be doing something wrong if it's that many people.
No. you break the law and have to serve time you get everything thats coming to you. There are victims behind their crimes and some of them have to live through extremely hard times for no real reason for it ever to have happened in the first place. They dont get the luxury of anything.
Noone should be bothered about this anywhere. Let them starve cos im going to go as far as to say if one of these people got out, moved next to you and ruined your life, you are assured they give 0 fucks and you will wish you never pandered to the bullshit im hearing right now.
You Lose your rights when you break the law, id expect everyday to be a nightmare if i was sent to jail because right now its looking like a fucking joke with the shit they are given. . . on saying that tho, they are much better off in there than out here fucking with YOUR lives.
@theking1 below
Hey man 1 thing at a time bro i made a 9 line post in haste im sure nothing said here is going to make a blind bit of difference to anything. People gonna be bad, lets hop you and I are not on the end of it, im sure depending on the severity of the action we would want that death penalty applied pretty sharpish.
Just because someone commited a crime doesn't mean we should strip them of basic human rights, or that they are a evil person, or that they aren't still human.
I agree. That is absolutely true. If only everyone understood that.......
I find it rediculous that icon's like Robin Hood are so wildly praised, yet Mexican's who leave mexico for a better life are so criminalized. Our society has some rediculous issues trying to keep things straight.
You have not even red the innitial post nor the articles attached to the OP.You are just derailing the thread to impose your agenda.The strike was started by solitary confinement inmates at Pelican bay, a supermax prison.You get there only if you have serious gang affiliation charges or have commited a serious crime such as armed robbery/assault/rape murder.Those are the worst of the worst.
illegally crossing the border in the USA gets you max 7 days in jail and a trip back to Mexico.You do not get solitary confinement at Pelican bay for illegally crossing the border.Stop derailing.
I have read it, i'm just trying to explain that our prison systems in the U.S. are falling apart and over populated.
On July 12 2013 00:32 theking1 wrote: Westside!! I can not believe how many people are defending career criminals here on this forum.You guys do realize that MOST of the people in the California penitenciary system are members of some criminal orgnization such as The bloods,Crips,Arian Brotherhood,Mexiacan Mafia,MS13, 18th street gangmSurenos,Skinheads,Noestra Familia,Latin Kings,Vice Lords,Drug Cartels etc.These are people who either commited dozens of murders and would slice you for a bag of Marijuana.It is litterally impossible to survive in a west coast penitenciarry without being gang affiliated.Thise people ar e not in there for fun.In fact judges in Cali give very light jail sentences for the sole reason of overpopulation of the penitenciarry system.MOST of the poeple in there are cold blooded murders who would kill you and your family for 100$.
And btw regarding solitary confinment i saw many people here lying that you can get to solitary for nothing.Wrong.You go to solitary for things such as contraband,assaulting an officer,assaulting other inmates etc.In other words they ar ein solitary to protect other inmates and guards from being murdered.If you guys want more background of what happens in Cali prisons check out Lockdownraw or the natgeographic documentaries on youtube.
These people are in solitary cuase they are a threat to the other inmates.You would not want to be in prison for tax evasion and be in a cell with a member of theArian Bortherhood who would kill you for not being th eright skin color.
@plexa your arguments work well with small time criminals.Here we are talking about life long gangbangers who kill and die for their gang,The ones that escape the gang do that due to their own will and after spending decade sin jail.DO not try and confuse a low time criminal with a killer from ms13.
30K is a lot of people. I am going to assume that there are all sorts of criminals in the California prision system. Also, that system is known for being terrible. They were recently ordered by the Supreme Court to either release some inmates or build more prisions. This was after 10 years of litigation involving over crowding due to the state's inability to fund their prisions correctly. They were ordered over and over to comply and stop the overcrowding. California just ignored the orders until the Supreme Court finally had to rule on it and step in.
This is nothing new, California sucks as running prisions. They have for a long time. They refuse to spend money on them or reform their pratices and we will hear more of this in the future until someone deals with the issue.
You are right about the conditions but they should have thought about that before commiting heinous crimes The article is about solitary confinement prisoners.You land in solitary confinement if you a)get caught with contraband b)assault a guard or another inmate it is preety unfair for a guy who is in jail for not paying his taxes to be in the same cell with another inmate convicted for life for murder who can basicly murder him rape him at his own will without anything happening to him.That is what solitary confinement is for.To protect the regular criminals form the monsters.If you are in jail for life you can do what you want and not give a damn cause they can not add anything to your sentence.
@sva that guy changed his ways after murdering 2 people while free and god knows how many while in prison.He only stepped up when members of the brotherhood themselves were targeted.Btw you do not get to the leadership of the arian brotherhood by jaiwalking.It is blood in blood out.
c. another prisoner claims you're in a prison gang d. They run out of space for new people e. You rub an officer the wrong way
offer evidence.i offered you evidence.The website that you linked offered only theoretical situations not one example.Show me a real situation where a criminal when to solitary when another inmate claimed that he was a gang memeber.There are none.Cause for you to be identified as a gang memeber you need to: a)have gang tatoos b)hang out with people form a certain gang.There is a special division in each penitenciary especially in california who deals with gang identification/gang tatoos. b)does assaulting an officer with a shank or putting memebers of your gang who are free to kill his family or throwing urine at him enters the category of "rubbing the wrong way"?
@Plansix and everybody else who thinks solitary is not deserved
try to apply high human principles to a real situation.Answer me this question please:
You are the manager of a prison.In your prison there are dozens of people convicted for life for things such as murders/rapes etc walking the same corridors and the same meal halls with prisoners in for tax evasion.One day a life convcted inmate assaults with a shank another inmate.What do you do with the assailant?Even if you give him more years it doesnt matter cause he already has life.You can't execute him cause his actions do not require the death sentence.What do you do?And I want a practical answer.
I do not disagree with the use of solitary for prisoners they cannot control or who cause problems/are violent. The problem in this case is that it is OVER used. The prisons in California are so overcrowded that that the guards cannot control the population, so they use solitary in an to bring the population under control, which cases it to be over used.
Once again, you are arguing about the practice of using solitary, which is not the true discussion. The problem in California is that 30k prisoners in separate prisons decided to go on a hunger strike because California sucks at running prisons and has for 10 years.
I have just red the New York Times article.Apparently the warden of the prison already released low level offenders.And the hunger strike was started by a few people at pelican Bay,a supermax prison designed to house "the worst of the worst" notorious for housing some of the most dangerous gangs in the US.You do not get into peican bay for swearing in the church and you do not get in solitary confinement in pelican bay for jaywalking.the people there have probably commited many murders.I would not be surprised if the hunger strikers were all gang members.
You can not release gang memebrs into the streets.Nor can you build hundreds of new prisons to accomodate an increasing number of offenders.The bottom line is the honest hardworking citizens must be protected from criminals.And there is also a saying:"don't do the crime if ya can't do the time".the gang leaders who are in solitary confinemnt at Pelican Bay should of tought about that before ordering murders,kidnaps,ransoms,robberies etc
The court ordered the state to release 30K prisoners, of which they have released 10K. Also, it points out that 10,000 inmates are being held in solitary confinement(in 2011, when the ruling came down). There is no way that all 10,000 inmates needed to be there.
Also, I read the article you cited and this quote was at the end:
“Officials have this bunker mentality, but now it’s like a house of cards is falling down,” Ms. Strickman said. “There have been so many problems for decades, and now they are being forced to deal with them all at once.”
California has had this problem for over 10 years and had not addressed it. They have not complied with the order from the Supreme Court and have not worked to address the issue. They imprison to many people and don't know how to fix the problem because it would cost money.
This has nothing to do with how bad the inmates are. It has do with the fact that California fucking sucks at running prisons and refuses to fix the problem. So now the problem is front and center and there is nothing they can do.
Stop straw manning, its not working and you are just pointing out how little you know about what is going on.
Defense lawyers use big words to defend they clients.And you still haven't provided me with an example of someone unlawfully sentenced to solitary.Now you switched the discussion to overcrowding which is an issue but one witohut any cheap sollution.The only sollution is: 1..Build more expensive prisons for which the state has no money to build and maintain
Btw if your sollution to the issue is releasing 20k dangerous offenders after they robbed/killed and god knows what they did to innocent people then you aren't living in california or you need a reality check.20k people do not get in jail for nothing.The only ones who will suffer form their release are the honest citizens who will have to deal with them on the streets
@statixex
who cares about the victims?Who cares about the years of psychological trauma somebody has to go through after being raped/beaten/mugged or have their family members being the victims of a drive by or a gang shotout?WHo cares about the kids who become drug addicts because dealers are at every corner.Who cares about the victims families and the suffering they have to go thorugh?Unless you are killed in a schoolshooting apparetly you do not get any airtime and nobody writes articles about you.
Id like to kill all the stupid people like those in favour of a prison system whose main principle is the execution of punishment.
But I cant possibly kill every stupid person on this planet which puts me in the awkward spot to just be able to kill some of them. Maybe one, maybe three, it doesnt matter. In the end that hurts me more than it hurts the stupid people because I will be thrown into prison and rightly so I might add.
Dealing with prisoners is the same, really. If you were able to just wipe them out entirely you might create a situation which is favourable for the part of society that is not involved. Im assuming that people who are favouring the "tough on crime"-thing wouldnt be directly affected by this measure (Killing all the prisoners).
But lets be realistic: I cant imagine that this would be considered a just way of dealing with every crime thats committed by the majority of people. Can you?Also, you have a constitution in America, right?
Because you are unable to achieve what you actually want (Getting rid of the "problem" entirely) you decide that prisoners should at least be treated in the worst way possible but they will have to be set free eventually (which is the status quo in California basically). And because they were treated like animals they now behave even more antisocial than before. Which not only hurts them but also society which also (or mainly) consists of all the stupid people in favour of rigid law.
To cut a long story short: You are hurting yourself by trying to hurt them. That may seem like an ok trade trade to you but id consider you an idiot.
On July 12 2013 00:32 theking1 wrote: Westside!! I can not believe how many people are defending career criminals here on this forum.You guys do realize that MOST of the people in the California penitenciary system are members of some criminal orgnization such as The bloods,Crips,Arian Brotherhood,Mexiacan Mafia,MS13, 18th street gangmSurenos,Skinheads,Noestra Familia,Latin Kings,Vice Lords,Drug Cartels etc.These are people who either commited dozens of murders and would slice you for a bag of Marijuana.It is litterally impossible to survive in a west coast penitenciarry without being gang affiliated.Thise people ar e not in there for fun.In fact judges in Cali give very light jail sentences for the sole reason of overpopulation of the penitenciarry system.MOST of the poeple in there are cold blooded murders who would kill you and your family for 100$.
And btw regarding solitary confinment i saw many people here lying that you can get to solitary for nothing.Wrong.You go to solitary for things such as contraband,assaulting an officer,assaulting other inmates etc.In other words they ar ein solitary to protect other inmates and guards from being murdered.If you guys want more background of what happens in Cali prisons check out Lockdownraw or the natgeographic documentaries on youtube.
These people are in solitary cuase they are a threat to the other inmates.You would not want to be in prison for tax evasion and be in a cell with a member of theArian Bortherhood who would kill you for not being th eright skin color.
@plexa your arguments work well with small time criminals.Here we are talking about life long gangbangers who kill and die for their gang,The ones that escape the gang do that due to their own will and after spending decade sin jail.DO not try and confuse a low time criminal with a killer from ms13.
30K is a lot of people. I am going to assume that there are all sorts of criminals in the California prision system. Also, that system is known for being terrible. They were recently ordered by the Supreme Court to either release some inmates or build more prisions. This was after 10 years of litigation involving over crowding due to the state's inability to fund their prisions correctly. They were ordered over and over to comply and stop the overcrowding. California just ignored the orders until the Supreme Court finally had to rule on it and step in.
This is nothing new, California sucks as running prisions. They have for a long time. They refuse to spend money on them or reform their pratices and we will hear more of this in the future until someone deals with the issue.
You are right about the conditions but they should have thought about that before commiting heinous crimes The article is about solitary confinement prisoners.You land in solitary confinement if you a)get caught with contraband b)assault a guard or another inmate it is preety unfair for a guy who is in jail for not paying his taxes to be in the same cell with another inmate convicted for life for murder who can basicly murder him rape him at his own will without anything happening to him.That is what solitary confinement is for.To protect the regular criminals form the monsters.If you are in jail for life you can do what you want and not give a damn cause they can not add anything to your sentence.
@sva that guy changed his ways after murdering 2 people while free and god knows how many while in prison.He only stepped up when members of the brotherhood themselves were targeted.Btw you do not get to the leadership of the arian brotherhood by jaiwalking.It is blood in blood out.
c. another prisoner claims you're in a prison gang d. They run out of space for new people e. You rub an officer the wrong way
offer evidence.i offered you evidence.The website that you linked offered only theoretical situations not one example.Show me a real situation where a criminal when to solitary when another inmate claimed that he was a gang memeber.There are none.Cause for you to be identified as a gang memeber you need to: a)have gang tatoos b)hang out with people form a certain gang.There is a special division in each penitenciary especially in california who deals with gang identification/gang tatoos. b)does assaulting an officer with a shank or putting memebers of your gang who are free to kill his family or throwing urine at him enters the category of "rubbing the wrong way"?
@Plansix and everybody else who thinks solitary is not deserved
try to apply high human principles to a real situation.Answer me this question please:
You are the manager of a prison.In your prison there are dozens of people convicted for life for things such as murders/rapes etc walking the same corridors and the same meal halls with prisoners in for tax evasion.One day a life convcted inmate assaults with a shank another inmate.What do you do with the assailant?Even if you give him more years it doesnt matter cause he already has life.You can't execute him cause his actions do not require the death sentence.What do you do?And I want a practical answer.
I do not disagree with the use of solitary for prisoners they cannot control or who cause problems/are violent. The problem in this case is that it is OVER used. The prisons in California are so overcrowded that that the guards cannot control the population, so they use solitary in an to bring the population under control, which cases it to be over used.
Once again, you are arguing about the practice of using solitary, which is not the true discussion. The problem in California is that 30k prisoners in separate prisons decided to go on a hunger strike because California sucks at running prisons and has for 10 years.
they have good lawyers and most of them know the penal code better than the lawyers themselves.If they were actually mistreated they would sue the state for millions of dollars and win.They should have thought about bad conditions before mudering innocents/raping innocent women or robbing innocent people.
On July 12 2013 00:32 theking1 wrote: Westside!! I can not believe how many people are defending career criminals here on this forum.You guys do realize that MOST of the people in the California penitenciary system are members of some criminal orgnization such as The bloods,Crips,Arian Brotherhood,Mexiacan Mafia,MS13, 18th street gangmSurenos,Skinheads,Noestra Familia,Latin Kings,Vice Lords,Drug Cartels etc.These are people who either commited dozens of murders and would slice you for a bag of Marijuana.It is litterally impossible to survive in a west coast penitenciarry without being gang affiliated.Thise people ar e not in there for fun.In fact judges in Cali give very light jail sentences for the sole reason of overpopulation of the penitenciarry system.MOST of the poeple in there are cold blooded murders who would kill you and your family for 100$.
And btw regarding solitary confinment i saw many people here lying that you can get to solitary for nothing.Wrong.You go to solitary for things such as contraband,assaulting an officer,assaulting other inmates etc.In other words they ar ein solitary to protect other inmates and guards from being murdered.If you guys want more background of what happens in Cali prisons check out Lockdownraw or the natgeographic documentaries on youtube.
These people are in solitary cuase they are a threat to the other inmates.You would not want to be in prison for tax evasion and be in a cell with a member of theArian Bortherhood who would kill you for not being th eright skin color.
@plexa your arguments work well with small time criminals.Here we are talking about life long gangbangers who kill and die for their gang,The ones that escape the gang do that due to their own will and after spending decade sin jail.DO not try and confuse a low time criminal with a killer from ms13.
30K is a lot of people. I am going to assume that there are all sorts of criminals in the California prision system. Also, that system is known for being terrible. They were recently ordered by the Supreme Court to either release some inmates or build more prisions. This was after 10 years of litigation involving over crowding due to the state's inability to fund their prisions correctly. They were ordered over and over to comply and stop the overcrowding. California just ignored the orders until the Supreme Court finally had to rule on it and step in.
This is nothing new, California sucks as running prisions. They have for a long time. They refuse to spend money on them or reform their pratices and we will hear more of this in the future until someone deals with the issue.
You are right about the conditions but they should have thought about that before commiting heinous crimes The article is about solitary confinement prisoners.You land in solitary confinement if you a)get caught with contraband b)assault a guard or another inmate it is preety unfair for a guy who is in jail for not paying his taxes to be in the same cell with another inmate convicted for life for murder who can basicly murder him rape him at his own will without anything happening to him.That is what solitary confinement is for.To protect the regular criminals form the monsters.If you are in jail for life you can do what you want and not give a damn cause they can not add anything to your sentence.
@sva that guy changed his ways after murdering 2 people while free and god knows how many while in prison.He only stepped up when members of the brotherhood themselves were targeted.Btw you do not get to the leadership of the arian brotherhood by jaiwalking.It is blood in blood out.
c. another prisoner claims you're in a prison gang d. They run out of space for new people e. You rub an officer the wrong way
offer evidence.i offered you evidence.The website that you linked offered only theoretical situations not one example.Show me a real situation where a criminal when to solitary when another inmate claimed that he was a gang memeber.There are none.Cause for you to be identified as a gang memeber you need to: a)have gang tatoos b)hang out with people form a certain gang.There is a special division in each penitenciary especially in california who deals with gang identification/gang tatoos. b)does assaulting an officer with a shank or putting memebers of your gang who are free to kill his family or throwing urine at him enters the category of "rubbing the wrong way"?
@Plansix and everybody else who thinks solitary is not deserved
try to apply high human principles to a real situation.Answer me this question please:
You are the manager of a prison.In your prison there are dozens of people convicted for life for things such as murders/rapes etc walking the same corridors and the same meal halls with prisoners in for tax evasion.One day a life convcted inmate assaults with a shank another inmate.What do you do with the assailant?Even if you give him more years it doesnt matter cause he already has life.You can't execute him cause his actions do not require the death sentence.What do you do?And I want a practical answer.
I do not disagree with the use of solitary for prisoners they cannot control or who cause problems/are violent. The problem in this case is that it is OVER used. The prisons in California are so overcrowded that that the guards cannot control the population, so they use solitary in an to bring the population under control, which cases it to be over used.
Once again, you are arguing about the practice of using solitary, which is not the true discussion. The problem in California is that 30k prisoners in separate prisons decided to go on a hunger strike because California sucks at running prisons and has for 10 years.
I have just red the New York Times article.Apparently the warden of the prison already released low level offenders.And the hunger strike was started by a few people at pelican Bay,a supermax prison designed to house "the worst of the worst" notorious for housing some of the most dangerous gangs in the US.You do not get into peican bay for swearing in the church and you do not get in solitary confinement in pelican bay for jaywalking.the people there have probably commited many murders.I would not be surprised if the hunger strikers were all gang members.
You can not release gang memebrs into the streets.Nor can you build hundreds of new prisons to accomodate an increasing number of offenders.The bottom line is the honest hardworking citizens must be protected from criminals.And there is also a saying:"don't do the crime if ya can't do the time".the gang leaders who are in solitary confinemnt at Pelican Bay should of tought about that before ordering murders,kidnaps,ransoms,robberies etc
The court ordered the state to release 30K prisoners, of which they have released 10K. Also, it points out that 10,000 inmates are being held in solitary confinement(in 2011, when the ruling came down). There is no way that all 10,000 inmates needed to be there.
Also, I read the article you cited and this quote was at the end:
“Officials have this bunker mentality, but now it’s like a house of cards is falling down,” Ms. Strickman said. “There have been so many problems for decades, and now they are being forced to deal with them all at once.”
California has had this problem for over 10 years and had not addressed it. They have not complied with the order from the Supreme Court and have not worked to address the issue. They imprison to many people and don't know how to fix the problem because it would cost money.
This has nothing to do with how bad the inmates are. It has do with the fact that California fucking sucks at running prisons and refuses to fix the problem. So now the problem is front and center and there is nothing they can do.
Stop straw manning, its not working and you are just pointing out how little you know about what is going on.
Defense lawyers use big words to defend they clients.And you still haven't provided me with an example of someone unlawfully sentenced to solitary.Now you switched the discussion to overcrowding which is an issue but one witohut any cheap sollution.The only sollution is: 1..Build more expensive prisons for which the state has no money to build and maintain
Btw if your sollution to the issue is releasing 20k dangerous offenders after they robbed/killed and god knows what they did to innocent people then you aren't living in california or you need a reality check.20k people do not get in jail for nothing.The only ones who will suffer form their release are the honest citizens who will have to deal with them on the streets
It shouldn't need to be said, but the argument isn't to release them from solitary to the public, it's to release them from solitary into regular prison. Newsflash:
The Philippines only imprison professional dancers, as illustrated in this documentary.
On July 12 2013 00:32 theking1 wrote: Westside!! I can not believe how many people are defending career criminals here on this forum.You guys do realize that MOST of the people in the California penitenciary system are members of some criminal orgnization such as The bloods,Crips,Arian Brotherhood,Mexiacan Mafia,MS13, 18th street gangmSurenos,Skinheads,Noestra Familia,Latin Kings,Vice Lords,Drug Cartels etc.These are people who either commited dozens of murders and would slice you for a bag of Marijuana.It is litterally impossible to survive in a west coast penitenciarry without being gang affiliated.Thise people ar e not in there for fun.In fact judges in Cali give very light jail sentences for the sole reason of overpopulation of the penitenciarry system.MOST of the poeple in there are cold blooded murders who would kill you and your family for 100$.
And btw regarding solitary confinment i saw many people here lying that you can get to solitary for nothing.Wrong.You go to solitary for things such as contraband,assaulting an officer,assaulting other inmates etc.In other words they ar ein solitary to protect other inmates and guards from being murdered.If you guys want more background of what happens in Cali prisons check out Lockdownraw or the natgeographic documentaries on youtube.
These people are in solitary cuase they are a threat to the other inmates.You would not want to be in prison for tax evasion and be in a cell with a member of theArian Bortherhood who would kill you for not being th eright skin color.
@plexa your arguments work well with small time criminals.Here we are talking about life long gangbangers who kill and die for their gang,The ones that escape the gang do that due to their own will and after spending decade sin jail.DO not try and confuse a low time criminal with a killer from ms13.
30K is a lot of people. I am going to assume that there are all sorts of criminals in the California prision system. Also, that system is known for being terrible. They were recently ordered by the Supreme Court to either release some inmates or build more prisions. This was after 10 years of litigation involving over crowding due to the state's inability to fund their prisions correctly. They were ordered over and over to comply and stop the overcrowding. California just ignored the orders until the Supreme Court finally had to rule on it and step in.
This is nothing new, California sucks as running prisions. They have for a long time. They refuse to spend money on them or reform their pratices and we will hear more of this in the future until someone deals with the issue.
You are right about the conditions but they should have thought about that before commiting heinous crimes The article is about solitary confinement prisoners.You land in solitary confinement if you a)get caught with contraband b)assault a guard or another inmate it is preety unfair for a guy who is in jail for not paying his taxes to be in the same cell with another inmate convicted for life for murder who can basicly murder him rape him at his own will without anything happening to him.That is what solitary confinement is for.To protect the regular criminals form the monsters.If you are in jail for life you can do what you want and not give a damn cause they can not add anything to your sentence.
@sva that guy changed his ways after murdering 2 people while free and god knows how many while in prison.He only stepped up when members of the brotherhood themselves were targeted.Btw you do not get to the leadership of the arian brotherhood by jaiwalking.It is blood in blood out.
c. another prisoner claims you're in a prison gang d. They run out of space for new people e. You rub an officer the wrong way
offer evidence.i offered you evidence.The website that you linked offered only theoretical situations not one example.Show me a real situation where a criminal when to solitary when another inmate claimed that he was a gang memeber.There are none.Cause for you to be identified as a gang memeber you need to: a)have gang tatoos b)hang out with people form a certain gang.There is a special division in each penitenciary especially in california who deals with gang identification/gang tatoos. b)does assaulting an officer with a shank or putting memebers of your gang who are free to kill his family or throwing urine at him enters the category of "rubbing the wrong way"?
@Plansix and everybody else who thinks solitary is not deserved
try to apply high human principles to a real situation.Answer me this question please:
You are the manager of a prison.In your prison there are dozens of people convicted for life for things such as murders/rapes etc walking the same corridors and the same meal halls with prisoners in for tax evasion.One day a life convcted inmate assaults with a shank another inmate.What do you do with the assailant?Even if you give him more years it doesnt matter cause he already has life.You can't execute him cause his actions do not require the death sentence.What do you do?And I want a practical answer.
I do not disagree with the use of solitary for prisoners they cannot control or who cause problems/are violent. The problem in this case is that it is OVER used. The prisons in California are so overcrowded that that the guards cannot control the population, so they use solitary in an to bring the population under control, which cases it to be over used.
Once again, you are arguing about the practice of using solitary, which is not the true discussion. The problem in California is that 30k prisoners in separate prisons decided to go on a hunger strike because California sucks at running prisons and has for 10 years.
I have just red the New York Times article.Apparently the warden of the prison already released low level offenders.And the hunger strike was started by a few people at pelican Bay,a supermax prison designed to house "the worst of the worst" notorious for housing some of the most dangerous gangs in the US.You do not get into peican bay for swearing in the church and you do not get in solitary confinement in pelican bay for jaywalking.the people there have probably commited many murders.I would not be surprised if the hunger strikers were all gang members.
You can not release gang memebrs into the streets.Nor can you build hundreds of new prisons to accomodate an increasing number of offenders.The bottom line is the honest hardworking citizens must be protected from criminals.And there is also a saying:"don't do the crime if ya can't do the time".the gang leaders who are in solitary confinemnt at Pelican Bay should of tought about that before ordering murders,kidnaps,ransoms,robberies etc
The court ordered the state to release 30K prisoners, of which they have released 10K. Also, it points out that 10,000 inmates are being held in solitary confinement(in 2011, when the ruling came down). There is no way that all 10,000 inmates needed to be there.
Also, I read the article you cited and this quote was at the end:
“Officials have this bunker mentality, but now it’s like a house of cards is falling down,” Ms. Strickman said. “There have been so many problems for decades, and now they are being forced to deal with them all at once.”
California has had this problem for over 10 years and had not addressed it. They have not complied with the order from the Supreme Court and have not worked to address the issue. They imprison to many people and don't know how to fix the problem because it would cost money.
This has nothing to do with how bad the inmates are. It has do with the fact that California fucking sucks at running prisons and refuses to fix the problem. So now the problem is front and center and there is nothing they can do.
Stop straw manning, its not working and you are just pointing out how little you know about what is going on.
Defense lawyers use big words to defend they clients.And you still haven't provided me with an example of someone unlawfully sentenced to solitary.Now you switched the discussion to overcrowding which is an issue but one witohut any cheap sollution.The only sollution is: 1..Build more expensive prisons for which the state has no money to build and maintain
Btw if your sollution to the issue is releasing 20k dangerous offenders after they robbed/killed and god knows what they did to innocent people then you aren't living in california or you need a reality check.20k people do not get in jail for nothing.The only ones who will suffer form their release are the honest citizens who will have to deal with them on the streets
"Defense lawyers use big words..." are you kidding me?
Its not a solution, it is an order from the Supreme court of the United States, stating that the practices of the state of California are illegal under the constitution of the United States. They must release 20K inmates or be at risk of action by the Federal Government.
Once again, California is notorious in this country for having poor prison practices, including over use of solitary confinement. This is nothing new and they have had the problem for decades. Just because you claim that everything they are doing is justified does not mean its true. All evidence shows otherwise, since they have been informed for 10 years to get their shit together.
Who cares..they are in Prison. Solitary is far from torture. I am sick and tired of hearing of "Prisoners" rights. They forfeited their rights when they chose to break the law and violate someone else's rights. This country is too damn soft and it is why our prison population is exploding. Prison should be the most miserable place on earth that people should want to go out of their way to avoid being sent there. Our prisoners want to bitch about how bad they have it? Let them spend some time in a turkish or russian prison. They will be Begging to be allowed to come back to our comfortable prisons with AC, Cable TV, Free College Education, Gyms and three quality meals a day.
On July 12 2013 00:32 theking1 wrote: Westside!! I can not believe how many people are defending career criminals here on this forum.You guys do realize that MOST of the people in the California penitenciary system are members of some criminal orgnization such as The bloods,Crips,Arian Brotherhood,Mexiacan Mafia,MS13, 18th street gangmSurenos,Skinheads,Noestra Familia,Latin Kings,Vice Lords,Drug Cartels etc.These are people who either commited dozens of murders and would slice you for a bag of Marijuana.It is litterally impossible to survive in a west coast penitenciarry without being gang affiliated.Thise people ar e not in there for fun.In fact judges in Cali give very light jail sentences for the sole reason of overpopulation of the penitenciarry system.MOST of the poeple in there are cold blooded murders who would kill you and your family for 100$.
And btw regarding solitary confinment i saw many people here lying that you can get to solitary for nothing.Wrong.You go to solitary for things such as contraband,assaulting an officer,assaulting other inmates etc.In other words they ar ein solitary to protect other inmates and guards from being murdered.If you guys want more background of what happens in Cali prisons check out Lockdownraw or the natgeographic documentaries on youtube.
These people are in solitary cuase they are a threat to the other inmates.You would not want to be in prison for tax evasion and be in a cell with a member of theArian Bortherhood who would kill you for not being th eright skin color.
@plexa your arguments work well with small time criminals.Here we are talking about life long gangbangers who kill and die for their gang,The ones that escape the gang do that due to their own will and after spending decade sin jail.DO not try and confuse a low time criminal with a killer from ms13.
30K is a lot of people. I am going to assume that there are all sorts of criminals in the California prision system. Also, that system is known for being terrible. They were recently ordered by the Supreme Court to either release some inmates or build more prisions. This was after 10 years of litigation involving over crowding due to the state's inability to fund their prisions correctly. They were ordered over and over to comply and stop the overcrowding. California just ignored the orders until the Supreme Court finally had to rule on it and step in.
This is nothing new, California sucks as running prisions. They have for a long time. They refuse to spend money on them or reform their pratices and we will hear more of this in the future until someone deals with the issue.
You are right about the conditions but they should have thought about that before commiting heinous crimes The article is about solitary confinement prisoners.You land in solitary confinement if you a)get caught with contraband b)assault a guard or another inmate it is preety unfair for a guy who is in jail for not paying his taxes to be in the same cell with another inmate convicted for life for murder who can basicly murder him rape him at his own will without anything happening to him.That is what solitary confinement is for.To protect the regular criminals form the monsters.If you are in jail for life you can do what you want and not give a damn cause they can not add anything to your sentence.
@sva that guy changed his ways after murdering 2 people while free and god knows how many while in prison.He only stepped up when members of the brotherhood themselves were targeted.Btw you do not get to the leadership of the arian brotherhood by jaiwalking.It is blood in blood out.
c. another prisoner claims you're in a prison gang d. They run out of space for new people e. You rub an officer the wrong way
offer evidence.i offered you evidence.The website that you linked offered only theoretical situations not one example.Show me a real situation where a criminal when to solitary when another inmate claimed that he was a gang memeber.There are none.Cause for you to be identified as a gang memeber you need to: a)have gang tatoos b)hang out with people form a certain gang.There is a special division in each penitenciary especially in california who deals with gang identification/gang tatoos. b)does assaulting an officer with a shank or putting memebers of your gang who are free to kill his family or throwing urine at him enters the category of "rubbing the wrong way"?
@Plansix and everybody else who thinks solitary is not deserved
try to apply high human principles to a real situation.Answer me this question please:
You are the manager of a prison.In your prison there are dozens of people convicted for life for things such as murders/rapes etc walking the same corridors and the same meal halls with prisoners in for tax evasion.One day a life convcted inmate assaults with a shank another inmate.What do you do with the assailant?Even if you give him more years it doesnt matter cause he already has life.You can't execute him cause his actions do not require the death sentence.What do you do?And I want a practical answer.
I do not disagree with the use of solitary for prisoners they cannot control or who cause problems/are violent. The problem in this case is that it is OVER used. The prisons in California are so overcrowded that that the guards cannot control the population, so they use solitary in an to bring the population under control, which cases it to be over used.
Once again, you are arguing about the practice of using solitary, which is not the true discussion. The problem in California is that 30k prisoners in separate prisons decided to go on a hunger strike because California sucks at running prisons and has for 10 years.
they have good lawyers and most of them know the penal code better than the lawyers themselves.If they were actually mistreated they would sue the state for millions of dollars and win.They should have thought about bad conditions before mudering innocents/raping innocent women or robbing innocent people.
On July 12 2013 00:32 theking1 wrote: Westside!! I can not believe how many people are defending career criminals here on this forum.You guys do realize that MOST of the people in the California penitenciary system are members of some criminal orgnization such as The bloods,Crips,Arian Brotherhood,Mexiacan Mafia,MS13, 18th street gangmSurenos,Skinheads,Noestra Familia,Latin Kings,Vice Lords,Drug Cartels etc.These are people who either commited dozens of murders and would slice you for a bag of Marijuana.It is litterally impossible to survive in a west coast penitenciarry without being gang affiliated.Thise people ar e not in there for fun.In fact judges in Cali give very light jail sentences for the sole reason of overpopulation of the penitenciarry system.MOST of the poeple in there are cold blooded murders who would kill you and your family for 100$.
And btw regarding solitary confinment i saw many people here lying that you can get to solitary for nothing.Wrong.You go to solitary for things such as contraband,assaulting an officer,assaulting other inmates etc.In other words they ar ein solitary to protect other inmates and guards from being murdered.If you guys want more background of what happens in Cali prisons check out Lockdownraw or the natgeographic documentaries on youtube.
These people are in solitary cuase they are a threat to the other inmates.You would not want to be in prison for tax evasion and be in a cell with a member of theArian Bortherhood who would kill you for not being th eright skin color.
@plexa your arguments work well with small time criminals.Here we are talking about life long gangbangers who kill and die for their gang,The ones that escape the gang do that due to their own will and after spending decade sin jail.DO not try and confuse a low time criminal with a killer from ms13.
30K is a lot of people. I am going to assume that there are all sorts of criminals in the California prision system. Also, that system is known for being terrible. They were recently ordered by the Supreme Court to either release some inmates or build more prisions. This was after 10 years of litigation involving over crowding due to the state's inability to fund their prisions correctly. They were ordered over and over to comply and stop the overcrowding. California just ignored the orders until the Supreme Court finally had to rule on it and step in.
This is nothing new, California sucks as running prisions. They have for a long time. They refuse to spend money on them or reform their pratices and we will hear more of this in the future until someone deals with the issue.
You are right about the conditions but they should have thought about that before commiting heinous crimes The article is about solitary confinement prisoners.You land in solitary confinement if you a)get caught with contraband b)assault a guard or another inmate it is preety unfair for a guy who is in jail for not paying his taxes to be in the same cell with another inmate convicted for life for murder who can basicly murder him rape him at his own will without anything happening to him.That is what solitary confinement is for.To protect the regular criminals form the monsters.If you are in jail for life you can do what you want and not give a damn cause they can not add anything to your sentence.
@sva that guy changed his ways after murdering 2 people while free and god knows how many while in prison.He only stepped up when members of the brotherhood themselves were targeted.Btw you do not get to the leadership of the arian brotherhood by jaiwalking.It is blood in blood out.
c. another prisoner claims you're in a prison gang d. They run out of space for new people e. You rub an officer the wrong way
offer evidence.i offered you evidence.The website that you linked offered only theoretical situations not one example.Show me a real situation where a criminal when to solitary when another inmate claimed that he was a gang memeber.There are none.Cause for you to be identified as a gang memeber you need to: a)have gang tatoos b)hang out with people form a certain gang.There is a special division in each penitenciary especially in california who deals with gang identification/gang tatoos. b)does assaulting an officer with a shank or putting memebers of your gang who are free to kill his family or throwing urine at him enters the category of "rubbing the wrong way"?
@Plansix and everybody else who thinks solitary is not deserved
try to apply high human principles to a real situation.Answer me this question please:
You are the manager of a prison.In your prison there are dozens of people convicted for life for things such as murders/rapes etc walking the same corridors and the same meal halls with prisoners in for tax evasion.One day a life convcted inmate assaults with a shank another inmate.What do you do with the assailant?Even if you give him more years it doesnt matter cause he already has life.You can't execute him cause his actions do not require the death sentence.What do you do?And I want a practical answer.
I do not disagree with the use of solitary for prisoners they cannot control or who cause problems/are violent. The problem in this case is that it is OVER used. The prisons in California are so overcrowded that that the guards cannot control the population, so they use solitary in an to bring the population under control, which cases it to be over used.
Once again, you are arguing about the practice of using solitary, which is not the true discussion. The problem in California is that 30k prisoners in separate prisons decided to go on a hunger strike because California sucks at running prisons and has for 10 years.
I have just red the New York Times article.Apparently the warden of the prison already released low level offenders.And the hunger strike was started by a few people at pelican Bay,a supermax prison designed to house "the worst of the worst" notorious for housing some of the most dangerous gangs in the US.You do not get into peican bay for swearing in the church and you do not get in solitary confinement in pelican bay for jaywalking.the people there have probably commited many murders.I would not be surprised if the hunger strikers were all gang members.
You can not release gang memebrs into the streets.Nor can you build hundreds of new prisons to accomodate an increasing number of offenders.The bottom line is the honest hardworking citizens must be protected from criminals.And there is also a saying:"don't do the crime if ya can't do the time".the gang leaders who are in solitary confinemnt at Pelican Bay should of tought about that before ordering murders,kidnaps,ransoms,robberies etc
The court ordered the state to release 30K prisoners, of which they have released 10K. Also, it points out that 10,000 inmates are being held in solitary confinement(in 2011, when the ruling came down). There is no way that all 10,000 inmates needed to be there.
Also, I read the article you cited and this quote was at the end:
“Officials have this bunker mentality, but now it’s like a house of cards is falling down,” Ms. Strickman said. “There have been so many problems for decades, and now they are being forced to deal with them all at once.”
California has had this problem for over 10 years and had not addressed it. They have not complied with the order from the Supreme Court and have not worked to address the issue. They imprison to many people and don't know how to fix the problem because it would cost money.
This has nothing to do with how bad the inmates are. It has do with the fact that California fucking sucks at running prisons and refuses to fix the problem. So now the problem is front and center and there is nothing they can do.
Stop straw manning, its not working and you are just pointing out how little you know about what is going on.
Defense lawyers use big words to defend they clients.And you still haven't provided me with an example of someone unlawfully sentenced to solitary.Now you switched the discussion to overcrowding which is an issue but one witohut any cheap sollution.The only sollution is: 1..Build more expensive prisons for which the state has no money to build and maintain
Btw if your sollution to the issue is releasing 20k dangerous offenders after they robbed/killed and god knows what they did to innocent people then you aren't living in california or you need a reality check.20k people do not get in jail for nothing.The only ones who will suffer form their release are the honest citizens who will have to deal with them on the streets
It shouldn't need to be said, but the argument isn't to release them from solitary to the public, it's to release them from solitary into regular prison. Newsflash: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMnk7lh9M3o The Philippines only imprison professional dancers, as illustrated in this documentary.
Sometimes I forget than i am on a sc2 forum........ The discussion with Plasix revolved aroud the 30k prisoners being release from prison into freedom by the supreme court,according to the ny times article which he attached.But hey who reads nowadays anyways.And the fact that someone is dancing in prison doesn't excuse the fact that they murdered to get there.You would be surprised that a lot of inmates included murderers/rapists/pedophiles/thieves/robbers have passtimes including painting/singing/writing.that does not make their crimes even less hideous.
I see you already started trolling with images and funny videos.Unless you actually have some arguments and facts like people sent to solitary for nothing and why is it good to release 30k inmates please refrain form discussing with me.My head is exploding.
@PLasix
Ok.California prisons have bad conditions.Actually they have better conditions that 99% of prisons on the planet except maybe some Northern European ones but who cares.Do you agree with 30k inmates being freed?Honestly.Do you think that a honest California resident should put up with more than 20k inmates who most likely will return to their life of crime.What about the victims of their innitial crimes.Do not they deserve justice?Where is the justice of the victims?
On July 12 2013 00:32 theking1 wrote: Westside!! I can not believe how many people are defending career criminals here on this forum.You guys do realize that MOST of the people in the California penitenciary system are members of some criminal orgnization such as The bloods,Crips,Arian Brotherhood,Mexiacan Mafia,MS13, 18th street gangmSurenos,Skinheads,Noestra Familia,Latin Kings,Vice Lords,Drug Cartels etc.These are people who either commited dozens of murders and would slice you for a bag of Marijuana.It is litterally impossible to survive in a west coast penitenciarry without being gang affiliated.Thise people ar e not in there for fun.In fact judges in Cali give very light jail sentences for the sole reason of overpopulation of the penitenciarry system.MOST of the poeple in there are cold blooded murders who would kill you and your family for 100$.
And btw regarding solitary confinment i saw many people here lying that you can get to solitary for nothing.Wrong.You go to solitary for things such as contraband,assaulting an officer,assaulting other inmates etc.In other words they ar ein solitary to protect other inmates and guards from being murdered.If you guys want more background of what happens in Cali prisons check out Lockdownraw or the natgeographic documentaries on youtube.
These people are in solitary cuase they are a threat to the other inmates.You would not want to be in prison for tax evasion and be in a cell with a member of theArian Bortherhood who would kill you for not being th eright skin color.
@plexa your arguments work well with small time criminals.Here we are talking about life long gangbangers who kill and die for their gang,The ones that escape the gang do that due to their own will and after spending decade sin jail.DO not try and confuse a low time criminal with a killer from ms13.
30K is a lot of people. I am going to assume that there are all sorts of criminals in the California prision system. Also, that system is known for being terrible. They were recently ordered by the Supreme Court to either release some inmates or build more prisions. This was after 10 years of litigation involving over crowding due to the state's inability to fund their prisions correctly. They were ordered over and over to comply and stop the overcrowding. California just ignored the orders until the Supreme Court finally had to rule on it and step in.
This is nothing new, California sucks as running prisions. They have for a long time. They refuse to spend money on them or reform their pratices and we will hear more of this in the future until someone deals with the issue.
You are right about the conditions but they should have thought about that before commiting heinous crimes The article is about solitary confinement prisoners.You land in solitary confinement if you a)get caught with contraband b)assault a guard or another inmate it is preety unfair for a guy who is in jail for not paying his taxes to be in the same cell with another inmate convicted for life for murder who can basicly murder him rape him at his own will without anything happening to him.That is what solitary confinement is for.To protect the regular criminals form the monsters.If you are in jail for life you can do what you want and not give a damn cause they can not add anything to your sentence.
@sva that guy changed his ways after murdering 2 people while free and god knows how many while in prison.He only stepped up when members of the brotherhood themselves were targeted.Btw you do not get to the leadership of the arian brotherhood by jaiwalking.It is blood in blood out.
c. another prisoner claims you're in a prison gang d. They run out of space for new people e. You rub an officer the wrong way
offer evidence.i offered you evidence.The website that you linked offered only theoretical situations not one example.Show me a real situation where a criminal when to solitary when another inmate claimed that he was a gang memeber.There are none.Cause for you to be identified as a gang memeber you need to: a)have gang tatoos b)hang out with people form a certain gang.There is a special division in each penitenciary especially in california who deals with gang identification/gang tatoos. b)does assaulting an officer with a shank or putting memebers of your gang who are free to kill his family or throwing urine at him enters the category of "rubbing the wrong way"?
@Plansix and everybody else who thinks solitary is not deserved
try to apply high human principles to a real situation.Answer me this question please:
You are the manager of a prison.In your prison there are dozens of people convicted for life for things such as murders/rapes etc walking the same corridors and the same meal halls with prisoners in for tax evasion.One day a life convcted inmate assaults with a shank another inmate.What do you do with the assailant?Even if you give him more years it doesnt matter cause he already has life.You can't execute him cause his actions do not require the death sentence.What do you do?And I want a practical answer.
I do not disagree with the use of solitary for prisoners they cannot control or who cause problems/are violent. The problem in this case is that it is OVER used. The prisons in California are so overcrowded that that the guards cannot control the population, so they use solitary in an to bring the population under control, which cases it to be over used.
Once again, you are arguing about the practice of using solitary, which is not the true discussion. The problem in California is that 30k prisoners in separate prisons decided to go on a hunger strike because California sucks at running prisons and has for 10 years.
they have good lawyers and most of them know the penal code better than the lawyers themselves.If they were actually mistreated they would sue the state for millions of dollars and win.They should have thought about bad conditions before mudering innocents/raping innocent women or robbing innocent people.
On July 12 2013 02:18 theking1 wrote:
On July 12 2013 02:11 Plansix wrote:
On July 12 2013 02:01 theking1 wrote:
On July 12 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote:
On July 12 2013 01:29 theking1 wrote:
On July 12 2013 01:19 Jormundr wrote:
On July 12 2013 01:12 theking1 wrote:
On July 12 2013 00:58 Plansix wrote: [quote] 30K is a lot of people. I am going to assume that there are all sorts of criminals in the California prision system. Also, that system is known for being terrible. They were recently ordered by the Supreme Court to either release some inmates or build more prisions. This was after 10 years of litigation involving over crowding due to the state's inability to fund their prisions correctly. They were ordered over and over to comply and stop the overcrowding. California just ignored the orders until the Supreme Court finally had to rule on it and step in.
This is nothing new, California sucks as running prisions. They have for a long time. They refuse to spend money on them or reform their pratices and we will hear more of this in the future until someone deals with the issue.
You are right about the conditions but they should have thought about that before commiting heinous crimes The article is about solitary confinement prisoners.You land in solitary confinement if you a)get caught with contraband b)assault a guard or another inmate it is preety unfair for a guy who is in jail for not paying his taxes to be in the same cell with another inmate convicted for life for murder who can basicly murder him rape him at his own will without anything happening to him.That is what solitary confinement is for.To protect the regular criminals form the monsters.If you are in jail for life you can do what you want and not give a damn cause they can not add anything to your sentence.
@sva that guy changed his ways after murdering 2 people while free and god knows how many while in prison.He only stepped up when members of the brotherhood themselves were targeted.Btw you do not get to the leadership of the arian brotherhood by jaiwalking.It is blood in blood out.
c. another prisoner claims you're in a prison gang d. They run out of space for new people e. You rub an officer the wrong way
offer evidence.i offered you evidence.The website that you linked offered only theoretical situations not one example.Show me a real situation where a criminal when to solitary when another inmate claimed that he was a gang memeber.There are none.Cause for you to be identified as a gang memeber you need to: a)have gang tatoos b)hang out with people form a certain gang.There is a special division in each penitenciary especially in california who deals with gang identification/gang tatoos. b)does assaulting an officer with a shank or putting memebers of your gang who are free to kill his family or throwing urine at him enters the category of "rubbing the wrong way"?
@Plansix and everybody else who thinks solitary is not deserved
try to apply high human principles to a real situation.Answer me this question please:
You are the manager of a prison.In your prison there are dozens of people convicted for life for things such as murders/rapes etc walking the same corridors and the same meal halls with prisoners in for tax evasion.One day a life convcted inmate assaults with a shank another inmate.What do you do with the assailant?Even if you give him more years it doesnt matter cause he already has life.You can't execute him cause his actions do not require the death sentence.What do you do?And I want a practical answer.
I do not disagree with the use of solitary for prisoners they cannot control or who cause problems/are violent. The problem in this case is that it is OVER used. The prisons in California are so overcrowded that that the guards cannot control the population, so they use solitary in an to bring the population under control, which cases it to be over used.
Once again, you are arguing about the practice of using solitary, which is not the true discussion. The problem in California is that 30k prisoners in separate prisons decided to go on a hunger strike because California sucks at running prisons and has for 10 years.
I have just red the New York Times article.Apparently the warden of the prison already released low level offenders.And the hunger strike was started by a few people at pelican Bay,a supermax prison designed to house "the worst of the worst" notorious for housing some of the most dangerous gangs in the US.You do not get into peican bay for swearing in the church and you do not get in solitary confinement in pelican bay for jaywalking.the people there have probably commited many murders.I would not be surprised if the hunger strikers were all gang members.
You can not release gang memebrs into the streets.Nor can you build hundreds of new prisons to accomodate an increasing number of offenders.The bottom line is the honest hardworking citizens must be protected from criminals.And there is also a saying:"don't do the crime if ya can't do the time".the gang leaders who are in solitary confinemnt at Pelican Bay should of tought about that before ordering murders,kidnaps,ransoms,robberies etc
The court ordered the state to release 30K prisoners, of which they have released 10K. Also, it points out that 10,000 inmates are being held in solitary confinement(in 2011, when the ruling came down). There is no way that all 10,000 inmates needed to be there.
Also, I read the article you cited and this quote was at the end:
“Officials have this bunker mentality, but now it’s like a house of cards is falling down,” Ms. Strickman said. “There have been so many problems for decades, and now they are being forced to deal with them all at once.”
California has had this problem for over 10 years and had not addressed it. They have not complied with the order from the Supreme Court and have not worked to address the issue. They imprison to many people and don't know how to fix the problem because it would cost money.
This has nothing to do with how bad the inmates are. It has do with the fact that California fucking sucks at running prisons and refuses to fix the problem. So now the problem is front and center and there is nothing they can do.
Stop straw manning, its not working and you are just pointing out how little you know about what is going on.
Defense lawyers use big words to defend they clients.And you still haven't provided me with an example of someone unlawfully sentenced to solitary.Now you switched the discussion to overcrowding which is an issue but one witohut any cheap sollution.The only sollution is: 1..Build more expensive prisons for which the state has no money to build and maintain
Btw if your sollution to the issue is releasing 20k dangerous offenders after they robbed/killed and god knows what they did to innocent people then you aren't living in california or you need a reality check.20k people do not get in jail for nothing.The only ones who will suffer form their release are the honest citizens who will have to deal with them on the streets
It shouldn't need to be said, but the argument isn't to release them from solitary to the public, it's to release them from solitary into regular prison. Newsflash: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMnk7lh9M3o The Philippines only imprison professional dancers, as illustrated in this documentary.
Sometimes I forget than i am on a sc2 forum........ The discussion with Plasix revolved aroud the 30k prisoners being release from prison into freedom by the supreme court,according to the ny times article which he attached.But hey who reads nowadays anyways.And the fact that someone is dancing in prison doesn't excuse the fact that they murdered to get there.You would be surprised that a lot of inmates included murderers/rapists/pedophiles/thieves/robbers have passtimes including painting/singing/writing.that does not make their crimes even less hideous.
I see you already started trolling with images and funny videos.Unless you actually have some arguments and facts like people sent to solitary for nothing and why is it good to release 30k inmates please refrain form discussing with me.My head is exploding.
It doesn't matter if its good, the Supreme Court ruled its illegal for the state to keep prisoners in overcrowded prisons. They were ordered to release them. This is after 10 years of being ordered to do so by other courts. Recently, they filed for a stay of the order, because they haven't released anyone yet, because they don't know how. I know this is weird, but when the highest court in the country orders a state that they are violating the US constitution, that's super fucking bad.
Not all the people in the prisons are murders, like you claim. Some of them are in there for drug offenses or stealing, breaking an entering or they are mentally ill.
The simple fact is the California prison system sucks and their prisoner are protesting that it sucks.
On July 12 2013 02:37 theking1 wrote:
@PLasix
Ok.California prisons have bad conditions.Actually they have better conditions that 99% of prisons on the planet except maybe some Northern European ones but who cares.Do you agree with 30k inmates being freed?Honestly.Do you think that a honest California resident should put up with more than 20k inmates who most likely will return to their life of crime.What about the victims of their innitial crimes.Do not they deserve justice?Where is the justice of the victims?
They imprison over 138,000 people in California. They can find 20k non-violent offenders to release. And we don't care about the rest of the planet, only about the standards of our own prisons. We are not in charge of reforming prisons in other countries, only our own.
As for justice for the victims, it is meaningless if we degrade ourselves by treating or prisoners worse than we would treat a cow.
On July 12 2013 02:33 Dekoth wrote: This country is too damn soft and it is why our prison population is exploding.
That doesn't logically follow. Our country has some of the harshest penalties in the civilized world and we've mostly been increasing them in the past 40 years (other than death sentence)
On July 12 2013 02:33 Dekoth wrote: They will be Begging to be allowed to come back to our comfortable prisons with AC, Cable TV, Free College Education, Gyms and three quality meals a day
w/ regards to solitary confinement. I don't think solitary is a bad idea as a punitive measure, but the way the US deals w/ solitary is absolutely ridiculous and torture. Due to the overcrowded prison system, solitary is now used to vacate cell rooms temporarily for new prisoners awaiting trial. It's a random system designed to increase the number of actual jail cells in a prison, and is not being used the way it was originally intended.
What the prisoners are striking for is in my opinion legit. Solitary Confinement IS a terrible thing and while people are in prison for a reason, it does not mean they deserve to be tormented in such a way. Solitary Confinement leaves way to much long-term damage and leads to nothing. If these prisoners are supposed to enter society once again this whole solitary confinement is counterproductive.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/7gZxAH8.jpg)
