30k Prisoner Hunger Strike Protesting Solitary - Page 8

On July 12 2013 03:49 WolfintheSheep wrote:

You are, quite frankly, clueless. Want to know the difference between the US and countries with much, much lower rates of re-offending criminals? Nicer prisons and better systems for rehabilitation.

The severity of penalty is not a deterrent in the slightest.

On July 12 2013 03:57 sva wrote:



It's been proved over and over again that Severity of penalty is not a deterrent at all.
Please don't compare our prisons to other prisons because frankily this discussion isn't about other prisons and how other countries do it. And if you are going to do that, at least do some research first. There are many prison's around the world where trying to escape is not a crime, and succeding to escape is not a crime as long as you return the clothes.....

Try something like that in San Quentan, and you will be shot down dead on the spot.

On July 12 2013 04:04 WolfintheSheep wrote:

....I'm trying to look for the point in your post, but I don't see it anywhere.

On July 12 2013 03:57 sva wrote:



It's been proved over and over again that Severity of penalty is not a deterrent at all.
Please don't compare our prisons to other prisons because frankily this discussion isn't about other prisons and how other countries do it. And if you are going to do that, at least do some research first. There are many prison's around the world where trying to escape is not a crime, and succeding to escape is not a crime as long as you return the clothes.....

Try something like that in San Quentan, and you will be shot down dead on the spot.

On July 12 2013 04:16 theking1 wrote:


Actually you would be surprised but even in countries which are considered to have the best prisons in the world criminals are complaining.For example Anders Brevik the mass murderer who killed about 77 people in Norway is complaining about the conditions in Norwegian prisons and those are considered to be some of the best in the world and Norway has some of the strictest laws regarding human rights.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20270325

From the article breivik is complaining that "his cofee is being served cold" and he doe not have enough "butter on his bread".And this is coming of a guy who murderer 77 people.And btw breivik lives alone in a cell with 3 rooms.It is very hard to satisfy criminals these days

On July 12 2013 04:16 theking1 wrote:


Actually you would be surprised but even in countries which are considered to have the best prisons in the world criminals are complaining.For example Anders Brevik the mass murderer who killed about 77 people in Norway is complaining about the conditions in Norwegian prisons and those are considered to be some of the best in the world and Norway has some of the strictest laws regarding human rights.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20270325

From the article breivik is complaining that "his cofee is being served cold" and he doe not have enough "butter on his bread".And this is coming of a guy who murderer 77 people.And btw breivik lives alone in a cell with 3 rooms.It is very hard to satisfy criminals these days

On July 12 2013 04:51 WolfintheSheep wrote:

Cute anecdote, but it doesn't remotely reflect on the prison system or the effectiveness of the prison.

On July 12 2013 05:49 theking1 wrote:


77 dead people,hundreds of their beloved ones suffering,a country in mourning and you consider it an anecdote.it proves that no matter the severity of the crime criminals will always want lesser punishment.

On July 12 2013 05:49 theking1 wrote:


77 dead people,hundreds of their beloved ones suffering,a country in mourning and you consider it an anecdote.it proves that no matter the severity of the crime criminals will always want lesser punishment.

On July 12 2013 05:51 WolfintheSheep wrote:

So you're saying because one single man is an unjustified whiner means that everyone who ever whines about prison treatment does not have a point?

As I said. Cute anecdote, completely irrelevant.

Controlling the Grip of Gangs

Outside in the yard, hundreds of prisoners from general population are playing basketball games, exercising and crowding around cement tables. On this day, without exception, every inmate is divided by race — and gang membership.

"You've got your white group there on that one dip bar. You've got your southern (Mexicans) — they're always on that one table. You have your blacks," Lt. Steve Perez says, looking out onto the yard.

Prison officials like Perez say a lot of crimes happen on the yard right in front of them.

"Right now, business is being conducted," Perez says, pointing to the group of prisoners gathered on the yard. "There's gambling that's going on, drugs that are being passed and sold."

Assaults, stabbings and attacks on staff are weekly occurrences here. Two former gang members sit at a table in the yard, long after most other prisons have been sent back inside. They're kept separate because they recently left the gang. Because they fear for their life, they asked that NPR not to use their names.

They say the gangs run the prisons.

"If they keep killing people, you are going to do what they tell you to do — out of fear, out of self-preservation," one of the inmates says. "If you're 90 days at the house, and a gang member tells you, 'You go stab that dude right there,' or 'Go back in and stab your cellie,' out of self-preservation, you are going to do what you are told. Because if you don't, you are going to be killed."

Associate Warden Larry Williams acknowledges that prison gangs are an enormous problem that prison officials do not have control over.

"Every time we pluck one out, a new one pops up," he said.

'There Are Times When You Lose Control'

Officials say 70 percent of the inmates in California's prisons are in some way affiliated with prison gangs.

When asked whether the gangs control Pelican Bay, Williams says: "The biggest part of me wants to say no. But you know, prisons only run with the consent of the inmates — and that's all the inmates. The administration and the officers do have control of the prisons. But there are times when you lose control."

Associate Warden Larry Williams says it has been this way since the 1980s, when the number of inmates exploded, and rehabilitative programs disappeared. The gangs filled the void left from increasingly tense conditions and utter boredom. California's answer to the gangs was, and is, the SHU.

Even locked in isolation, some inmates have managed to find ways to kill each other and assault staff. On a recent afternoon, a half-dozen officers spent an entire day tearing apart the cells in one hallway, searching desperately for a metal binder clip they believed one of the inmates was hiding. Officer Buchanan discovered the paper fastener hidden inside a crack in the concrete wall. It had been sharpened into a deadly razor.

In the cell next door, Sgt. France held up a couple of staples she found.

"They use the staples. They sharpen them to a point, wrap paper around them real tight, and make a spear out of it," France says. "It will go through the perforations on the cell. They can spear someone with it."

Isolation Breeds Deadly Ingenuity

Lt. Steve Perez explains that inmates pull out the elastic from their underwear and braid it into a kind of super-powered bow to fire their weapons.

"They can project a spear coming out of there at 800-square-pounds per foot," Perez said. "And 800 pounds per foot, into your neck, it'll drive that right in there. And now we've got to go in there, and what does he have on it? Does he have feces? HIV? Does he have herpes? TB? Hepatitis? And that's not unusual."

Prison officials say that removing the most dangerous gang members and putting them in segregation makes regular prisons safer for the rest of the inmates — and it weakens the gangs.

But Jim, a 38-year-old SHU inmate from Long Beach, says that's wishful thinking. He says that to gang members, being sent to the secure-housing unit is an honor.

"Coming up here was the big thing," Jim says from inside his cell. "Put in work. Come up here, be with the big homeys. Because this is the only place you're going to be around the fellas, you know."

'You're a Target Because of the Color of Your Skin'

Jim says gang leaders still control the gangs from within the SHU, mostly by mailing each other letters. And he says if you show up to prison and don't join the gang of your race, you'll be a target for the other gangs within days.

"When there's a war, there's a war," Jim says. "You're a target just because of the color of your skin, so you might as well. You're going to have to defend yourself. The lines get divided. You've gotta take sides."

Jim was sent to prison 10 years ago for armed robbery. Several years later, he was put in segregation for assaulting other prisoners when he joined a prison gang called the Nazi Low Riders.

"It's definitely racist," Jim says. But he says he wasn't racist before he came to prison. "Prison made me that way. My mom and dad taught me to respect everybody, no matter who it was. It's funny because I still remember, to this day, my dad telling me, 'You respect every man until he proves differently.'"

On July 12 2013 06:09 []Phase[] wrote:
There is no point keeping solitary confinement in its current state, it only makes things worse. The whole idea of 'prison' should be reworked as far as I am concerned. You are supposed to help these people, not lock them up and make them even more mentally unstable. The way it is now is the easy, but also the most primitive method. It is the way of people who don't want to face the real problems, such as what causes someone to be a psychopath for example, and makes them do the things they do. What is the underlying neurological reason, and is there something we could do about it?
The current stance is one that I just can not support.

Now, to what is also shocking : some of these comments I saw by just skimming this thread.
+ Show Spoiler +
I dont really know what to say to that. Get some better education I suppose?

On July 12 2013 06:21 ishyishy wrote:



Are you serious? Dude, I get told to kill myself at least twice a day by people on league of legends, sc2, facebook, etc. How can anything that someone says be surprising to you at all. I know, maybe you dont live in the real world.

On July 12 2013 06:27 theking1 wrote:


They do not.Even if I post hundreds of articles saying that most of the california prison system population is gang affiliated theys till do not care.They probably live in a very good neighbourhood,never had to deal with gang violence etc.it is only when someone who breaks into your house and kills your family for just being witness do you realize the animality and cruelty of these individuals who then claim mercy.I saw a homeburglar once in a documentary.he was convicted of robbing and sodomizing about 20 or so families and got like 10 life sentences.When he was asked about it he clamyl admitted to sodomizing his victims by sticking his pistol into their assholes and then drowning them in water.He was so calm you would think he was talking about buying some frosties form the supermarket.In ROmania its the same.Gang of gipsies beat up and kill people them whem you see them on tv you would think they are the most innocent men alive.All accusing the warden of bad treatments,all saying that prison is torture although a coupe of months before they were killing people/robbing houses/raping women without blinking.

On July 12 2013 06:22 Salazarz wrote:
While I don't want to get into the discussion of whether the justice / prison system is "fair" or not, the discussion about human rights of prisoners always strikes me as odd. In particular those who are even at risk of solitary confinement (violent, often repeat offenders) are in prison EXACTLY because they do not respect others' rights. I'm not advocating an eye for an eye policy, but people should be prepared to face consequences of their decisions. The whole point of the prison system is to be uncomfortable and restricting - if it comes to a point where you enjoy the same creature comforts in jail as you would in your daily life (I'm looking at you, Norway), "rehabilitation" just isn't going to happen, at least for some people. Working while in jail shouldn't be optional, either...

On July 12 2013 06:22 Salazarz wrote:
While I don't want to get into the discussion of whether the justice / prison system is "fair" or not, the discussion about human rights of prisoners always strikes me as odd. In particular those who are even at risk of solitary confinement (violent, often repeat offenders) are in prison EXACTLY because they do not respect others' rights. I'm not advocating an eye for an eye policy, but people should be prepared to face consequences of their decisions. The whole point of the prison system is to be uncomfortable and restricting - if it comes to a point where you enjoy the same creature comforts in jail as you would in your daily life (I'm looking at you, Norway), "rehabilitation" just isn't going to happen, at least for some people. Working while in jail shouldn't be optional, either...