30k Prisoner Hunger Strike Protesting Solitary - Page 9

On July 12 2013 06:29 KwarK wrote:

So your argument is that the criminals are winning the "who can be the biggest asshole" competition and that we, the law abiding public, need to up our game?

Really?

On July 12 2013 06:43 theking1 wrote:


No.I am argumenting that once you commit a heinous crime you better be prepared to serve your FULL sentence according to the LAW just like anybody else and not pull cheap stunts like claiming jail is inhumane.Yes once you commit a murder be prepared to serve 25 to life for it .And if you commit a crime in jail aka assault another inmate,shank a guard etc be prepared to serve time in solitary confinement.That is how the LAW is.Solitary confinement is not a sadistical pleasure of the guards but a need to protect the other inmates and the guards themselves form life serving gangbangers who already have multiple life sentences and do not care if they do yoga all day in jail or if they kill 200 inmates.For them it is the same.Notyhing can happen to them.You can not give a guy with multiple life sentences more time.And it is quite funny that after some digging I found out that the individuals that started the strike are in solitary confinement at Pelican bay,a supermax where only the hardest offenders go and where leaders f the arian brotherhood and mexican drug cartels are housed.Also these individuals are there because from jail they have ordered hits outside of prison and a lot of persons have lost their lives.We arent talking about your regular car thief here.We are talking about dudes with multiple bodies on their resume.

No we should not be more badass than them but we need to protect the lawabiding citizens and the less dangerous inmates from the gangbangers who have nothing to lose.Read the article I have provided for more introsepction.Also check out lockup raw on youtube.

On July 12 2013 06:43 theking1 wrote:


No.I am argumenting that once you commit a heinous crime you better be prepared to serve your FULL sentence according to the LAW just like anybody else and not pull cheap stunts like claiming jail is inhumane.Yes once you commit a murder be prepared to serve 25 to life for it .And if you commit a crime in jail aka assault another inmate,shank a guard etc be prepared to serve time in solitary confinement.That is how the LAW is.Solitary confinement is not a sadistical pleasure of the guards but a need to protect the other inmates and the guards themselves form life serving gangbangers who already have multiple life sentences and do not care if they do yoga all day in jail or if they kill 200 inmates.For them it is the same.Notyhing can happen to them.You can not give a guy with multiple life sentences more time.And it is quite funny that after some digging I found out that the individuals that started the strike are in solitary confinement at Pelican bay,a supermax where only the hardest offenders go and where leaders f the arian brotherhood and mexican drug cartels are housed.Also these individuals are there because from jail they have ordered hits outside of prison and a lot of persons have lost their lives.We arent talking about your regular car thief here.We are talking about dudes with multiple bodies on their resume.

No we should not be more badass than them but we need to protect the lawabiding citizens and the less dangerous inmates from the gangbangers who have nothing to lose.Read the article I have provided for more introsepction.Also check out lockup raw on youtube.

On July 12 2013 06:29 Paljas wrote:

if the discussion about human rights of prisoners strikes you as odd,
you probably dont understand the concept of human rights.

On July 12 2013 06:43 theking1 wrote:


No.I am argumenting that once you commit a heinous crime you better be prepared to serve your FULL sentence according to the LAW just like anybody else and not pull cheap stunts like claiming jail is inhumane.Yes once you commit a murder be prepared to serve 25 to life for it .And if you commit a crime in jail aka assault another inmate,shank a guard etc be prepared to serve time in solitary confinement.That is how the LAW is.Solitary confinement is not a sadistical pleasure of the guards but a need to protect the other inmates and the guards themselves form life serving gangbangers who already have multiple life sentences and do not care if they do yoga all day in jail or if they kill 200 inmates.For them it is the same.Notyhing can happen to them.You can not give a guy with multiple life sentences more time.And it is quite funny that after some digging I found out that the individuals that started the strike are in solitary confinement at Pelican bay,a supermax where only the hardest offenders go and where leaders f the arian brotherhood and mexican drug cartels are housed.Also these individuals are there because from jail they have ordered hits outside of prison and a lot of persons have lost their lives.We arent talking about your regular car thief here.We are talking about dudes with multiple bodies on their resume.

No we should not be more badass than them but we need to protect the lawabiding citizens and the less dangerous inmates from the gangbangers who have nothing to lose.Read the article I have provided for more introsepction.Also check out lockup raw on youtube.

On July 12 2013 06:52 Salazarz wrote:


I do understand the concept of human rights, I just don't agree on the modern definition of it. If you're a screw-up who destroys lives of other people, you should be happy to have a roof above your head, some kind of food on a plate, and an opportunity to 'rehabilitate' yourself through working - not for your own spending money but for paying off at least a fraction of the costs that are incurred upon the state and its law-abiding citizens as a result of your transgression. I don't know enough about the effects of solitary confinement on human psyche to discuss whether it is appropriate or not - but then again, people aren't sent there just for fun. Why should a prison warden or another, less violent prisoner be endangered in order to respect the 'rights' of someone who has zero respect for the rights of others, and pays no heed to the possible consequences of their actions?

On July 12 2013 07:15 KwarK wrote:

You've pulled this out your ass and the reason I know that is because in the topic it explains that the overcrowding of the prisons like this has been declared illegal by the supreme court. What they are serving is not their full sentence but is rather something in addition to their sentence as a result of a fuckup by the state of California which is acting illegally in forcing this upon them. Oddly enough by your reasoning the Californian state government are now also criminals and can therefore be fucked in any way a law abiding citizen sees fit, even if what you're doing to them is illegal, because they're criminals and "FULL SENTENCE".

Your argument isn't an argument, it's barely a string of words. It basically goes that it's fine to illegally do things to prisoners because they broke the law.

California is facing the threat of being charged with contempt of court after a Supreme Court order in May 2011 to reduce its prison population by 10,000 inmates this year. The court said crowding and terrible conditions inside the prison system constituted inhumane treatment in violation of the Eighth Amendment. On Wednesday, the state filed for a stay of the court’s order to release prisoners.

Gov. Jerry Brown has repeatedly said that the state has gone as far as it can to release low-level offenders and reduce crowding at the prisons, and that it is providing adequate medical care for inmates. But last month, a federal judge criticized the system for allowing potentially lethal valley fever to spread through two jails in Central Valley and ordered the state to move 2,600 inmates at risk of catching the disease.

What they are serving is not their full sentence but is rather something in addition to their sentence as a result of a fuckup by the state of California which is acting illegally in forcing this upon them

Controlling the Grip of Gangs

Outside in the yard, hundreds of prisoners from general population are playing basketball games, exercising and crowding around cement tables. On this day, without exception, every inmate is divided by race — and gang membership.

"You've got your white group there on that one dip bar. You've got your southern (Mexicans) — they're always on that one table. You have your blacks," Lt. Steve Perez says, looking out onto the yard.

Prison officials like Perez say a lot of crimes happen on the yard right in front of them.

"Right now, business is being conducted," Perez says, pointing to the group of prisoners gathered on the yard. "There's gambling that's going on, drugs that are being passed and sold."

Assaults, stabbings and attacks on staff are weekly occurrences here. Two former gang members sit at a table in the yard, long after most other prisons have been sent back inside. They're kept separate because they recently left the gang. Because they fear for their life, they asked that NPR not to use their names.

They say the gangs run the prisons.

"If they keep killing people, you are going to do what they tell you to do — out of fear, out of self-preservation," one of the inmates says. "If you're 90 days at the house, and a gang member tells you, 'You go stab that dude right there,' or 'Go back in and stab your cellie,' out of self-preservation, you are going to do what you are told. Because if you don't, you are going to be killed."

Associate Warden Larry Williams acknowledges that prison gangs are an enormous problem that prison officials do not have control over.

"Every time we pluck one out, a new one pops up," he said.

'There Are Times When You Lose Control'

Officials say 70 percent of the inmates in California's prisons are in some way affiliated with prison gangs.

When asked whether the gangs control Pelican Bay, Williams says: "The biggest part of me wants to say no. But you know, prisons only run with the consent of the inmates — and that's all the inmates. The administration and the officers do have control of the prisons. But there are times when you lose control."

Associate Warden Larry Williams says it has been this way since the 1980s, when the number of inmates exploded, and rehabilitative programs disappeared. The gangs filled the void left from increasingly tense conditions and utter boredom. California's answer to the gangs was, and is, the SHU.

Even locked in isolation, some inmates have managed to find ways to kill each other and assault staff. On a recent afternoon, a half-dozen officers spent an entire day tearing apart the cells in one hallway, searching desperately for a metal binder clip they believed one of the inmates was hiding. Officer Buchanan discovered the paper fastener hidden inside a crack in the concrete wall. It had been sharpened into a deadly razor.

In the cell next door, Sgt. France held up a couple of staples she found.

"They use the staples. They sharpen them to a point, wrap paper around them real tight, and make a spear out of it," France says. "It will go through the perforations on the cell. They can spear someone with it."

Isolation Breeds Deadly Ingenuity

Lt. Steve Perez explains that inmates pull out the elastic from their underwear and braid it into a kind of super-powered bow to fire their weapons.

"They can project a spear coming out of there at 800-square-pounds per foot," Perez said. "And 800 pounds per foot, into your neck, it'll drive that right in there. And now we've got to go in there, and what does he have on it? Does he have feces? HIV? Does he have herpes? TB? Hepatitis? And that's not unusual."

Prison officials say that removing the most dangerous gang members and putting them in segregation makes regular prisons safer for the rest of the inmates — and it weakens the gangs.

But Jim, a 38-year-old SHU inmate from Long Beach, says that's wishful thinking. He says that to gang members, being sent to the secure-housing unit is an honor.

"Coming up here was the big thing," Jim says from inside his cell. "Put in work. Come up here, be with the big homeys. Because this is the only place you're going to be around the fellas, you know."

'You're a Target Because of the Color of Your Skin'

Jim says gang leaders still control the gangs from within the SHU, mostly by mailing each other letters. And he says if you show up to prison and don't join the gang of your race, you'll be a target for the other gangs within days.

"When there's a war, there's a war," Jim says. "You're a target just because of the color of your skin, so you might as well. You're going to have to defend yourself. The lines get divided. You've gotta take sides."

Jim was sent to prison 10 years ago for armed robbery. Several years later, he was put in segregation for assaulting other prisoners when he joined a prison gang called the Nazi Low Riders.

"It's definitely racist," Jim says. But he says he wasn't racist before he came to prison. "Prison made me that way. My mom and dad taught me to respect everybody, no matter who it was. It's funny because I still remember, to this day, my dad telling me, 'You respect every man until he proves differently.'"

On July 11 2013 10:57 Mothra wrote:


Exactly. Doesn't mean we can torture people simply because they are in prison.

On July 12 2013 07:45 KwarK wrote:




Their full sentence was not X years solitary, they are being given the additional punishment of solitary because the state is unable to actually carry out the sentences the judges are passing down. They are shuffling prisoners through solitary to make room in prison because they are overcrowded and lack the facilities to actually do their jobs. I didn't write prolonged sentences, I wrote things in addition to their sentence. So no, you learn to read because what you wrote, in your barely comprehensible English (honestly it baffles me that you can go "learn to read" when what you write is so littered with spelling errors), in no way responds to what I wrote. You failed to read or understand my point and your conclusion was not the correct one, that you are simply too stupid to understand what I wrote, but rather than I had made an error. I did not. You did. Hopefully that clears it up. Maybe next time you experience confusion upon reading someone else's words make the effort to read them again and check it's not just you being dumb, given what I've seen of your posting so far I think you'll find that quite often it will be.

They are shuffling prisoners through solitary to make room in prison because they are overcrowded and lack the facilities to actually do their jobs.

So no, you learn to read because what you wrote, in your barely comprehensible English (honestly it baffles me that you can go "learn to read" when what you write is so littered with spelling errors), in no way responds to what I wrote

On July 12 2013 07:35 theking1 wrote:


As a mod you should actually read the ny times article.

this what the ny article says about the supreme court decision


10k inmates and that is it.And already people who have commited crimes have been released.If you feel comfortable with that it is your problem.

On July 12 2013 07:55 Plansix wrote:

OMG why are you still making that argument? THEY ARE BEING HELD ILLEGALLY AND I ALREADY LINKED YOU TO THE ARTICLE THAT SHOWS IT WAS 30K. Its 10K per year and the ruling was nearly THREE YEARS AGO. It is not ok for the goverment to treat people like shit because they are to fucking lazy and cheap to build more prisions.

There are between 140-170K inmates in the California prison system. They can find 30K non-violent offenders to release.

Seriously, fucking ignoring everything people write. You keep rehashing the same stupid arguments over and over, linking to pointless reports about prisons in other countries.

On July 12 2013 07:53 theking1 wrote:


Oh boy and you are a mod on this website.....
You genious you do not get solitary confinement for being a good boy you get it for COMMITING A CRIME BEHIND BARS which is also a crime.Shanking a guard and another inmate isnt a mild offense given to them by the state of California like you make it out to be but a SERIOUS OFFENSE simmilar to stabbing someone on the street.



Where does it say that in the OP or in the linked articles?COme on give me the quote.THERE IS NO QUOTE because it does not say that in the article



No you learn to read.i provided quotes form the original article confirming what I say you did not provide non.I am writing and watching the wcs na at the same time.My writing is preety understandable

[quoteMaybe next time you experience confusion upon reading someone else's words make the effort to read them again and check it's not just you being dumb, given what I've seen of your posting so far I think you'll find that quite often it will be]

On July 12 2013 07:51 CptCutter wrote:


huh? how is them being on hunger strike, torture?

Am i missing something or are they just complaining because prison is actually reforming them, as in, making them not want to go back because its so shitty?

On July 12 2013 07:58 theking1 wrote:


they are incarcerated legally.The conditions in which they are held are illegal.Big difference.The state of California is between releasing violent offenders and keeping them in bad conditions.Both of which are bad situations but the second one is more beneficial for society since it protects individual law abiding citizens.There are many law codes that must be respected.the human rights is just one of them

On July 12 2013 07:59 KwarK wrote:


Ah it is so easy to abuse your mod and resort to ad hominen although you contribute nothing to this discussion.This website has fallen well behind standards.Luckyly blizzard is doing its own wcs and esports portal soon.And you call yourselves a good website.Bleah.

P.S Deleted your post lol.

On July 12 2013 08:10 theking1 wrote:
And you take the word of some inmates who were convicted for violent offences in the first place...you are living in your own dream world...You do not even know if what they are saying is true.All of the other sources point out they are violent gang members.it is preety useless to argue with you.You have your own oppinion and when use ad hominen whenever you run out of arguments..all of the other users here seem to understand my argumentation and offer other arguments to their side of the story.Even if they do not agree with me they keep the discussion civil.Then you came and ruined the discussion with your ad homines.But hey you are a mod .When I innitially came here I though that these website due to its reputation would be a little more ad homien free.But it turns out the mods are the biggest insult users around.I am taking a break form TeamLiquid.Going to blizzard forums for a while.I am also deleting all of my Op.not that there are many but I put a little effort into them.Oh well my mistake.it will never happen again.