EPTYou're in prison to change, not to act tough and stay a bad egg.
30k Prisoner Hunger Strike Protesting Solitary - Page 11
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Batibot
Philippines348 Posts
You're in prison to change, not to act tough and stay a bad egg. | ||
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CatNzHat
United States1599 Posts
On July 12 2013 09:07 SoSexy wrote: A prison should be one of the scariest place on earth. A place that makes you REALLY think MANY times 'is this crime really worth the possible, atrocious confinement?' In this way, all the small crimes would decrease. The psychos would still go for it, but since you can't foresee a crime, you 'just' have to make sure they can't go out and repeat it again. The example of northern country prisons is out of context: it can only work there, where people have a different mind set, the popolation is law and overall criminality is law. If you were to apply a Norway-like system to United States (but even Italy, Spain, France) people would EAT each others. The problem with this is that people are being imprisoned for doing things that create no risk for anyone else, and they don't deserve to be treated as if they're animals. If we had better social benefits, healthcare, a more even wealth distribution, etc... there would be a lot less people forced into a situation of taking unlawful action just so they can survive. | ||
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wUndertUnge
United States1126 Posts
On July 13 2013 10:59 Batibot wrote: You're in prison for doing something against the law. But, what if you did something bad while inside the prison? Do you just get to walk away? Hell, no. You want to punish someone for doing bad things for them to know that what they did is bad. Bad things done should deserve punishment same way as why good things done deserve a reward. Now, if word around the campfire says that you lose your mind when you're in solitary, I hope it instills the bad-things-done-punishment association with the prisoners. You don't get to prison without a justified reason (most of the time). You don't get to solitary confinement without you doing something. You're in prison to change, not to act tough and stay a bad egg. Is anyone with this point of view actually reading the articles? People are being put into solitary in California jails for reasons such as suicide watch, which makes the mental afflictions worse, and also to free up space for incoming prisoners. New York jails are actually being found to do the same thing. To those calling for punishment, fine, I understand that as a point of view; however, what is really being accomplished? Ok, we're punishing the individual. And then what? Is this really going to stop other prisoners or us from committing more crimes? How am I (and I take this from another person's argument) going to be deterred by a punishment that I don't even know is happening because of a lack of transparency halfway across the country? | ||
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Jisall
United States2054 Posts
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On July 13 2013 12:27 Jisall wrote: We put prisoners in prison to separate them from society until they are in a position to live in society without causing harm to others. We put prisoners in solitary confinement when they pose a danger to their fellow prisoners. They are alone because they cannot be trusted with other people. The prisoners who go into solitary choose that path. They can play the victim, but until they learn that they are responsible for their own actions, there can be no progress. They knew about the consequences of their actions before they ended up in solitary, and used their actions to demonstrate that they wished to go there. You can pity them all you want, ultimately it was their choice to go there, and you are resisting their will. Read the thread and stop repeating the same uninformed opinion that has been shot down again and again and again... | ||
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OuchyDathurts
United States4588 Posts
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Djabanete
United States2786 Posts
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
On July 13 2013 12:27 Jisall wrote: We put prisoners in prison to separate them from society until they are in a position to live in society without causing harm to others. We put prisoners in solitary confinement when they pose a danger to their fellow prisoners. They are alone because they cannot be trusted with other people. The prisoners who go into solitary choose that path. They can play the victim, but until they learn that they are responsible for their own actions, there can be no progress. They knew about the consequences of their actions before they ended up in solitary, and used their actions to demonstrate that they wished to go there. You can pity them all you want, ultimately it was their choice to go there, and you are resisting their will. What makes you think that people are only put in solitary confinement because they're a danger to other prisoners? Also, that argument is ridiculous. By that logic, having any punishment for any crime is ok, because as long as you don't commit the crime it's not an issue. Should people be executed for jaywalking because as long as they know it's a law they deserve what they get? | ||
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Jisall
United States2054 Posts
On July 13 2013 13:15 GolemMadness wrote: What makes you think that people are only put in solitary confinement because they're a danger to other prisoners? Ignoring your strawman, and quoting wikipedia + Show Spoiler + Solitary confinement is a special form of imprisonment in which a prisoner is isolated from any human contact, though often with the exception of members of prison staff. It is sometimes employed as a form of punishment beyond incarceration for a prisoner and has been cited as an additional measure of protection from the inmate or is given for violations of prison regulations. It is also used as a form of protective custody and to implement a suicide watch. Solitary confinement is used as punishment for rebellious prisoners, and to prevent suicide. Nothing in my argument changes. | ||
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Djabanete
United States2786 Posts
Here is what I wrote. It's short, but it's that simple. + Show Spoiler + Dear Governor Brown, I am shocked and disturbed to learn about the practice of solitary confinement in our state's prisons. Our current practices fall squarely within any definition of psychological torture, and the solitary confinement of individuals for years at a time is despicable. I'm asking you to stand up for human rights. You will have my support. Sincerely, [name] | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On July 13 2013 13:44 Jisall wrote: Ignoring your strawman, and quoting wikipedia + Show Spoiler + Solitary confinement is a special form of imprisonment in which a prisoner is isolated from any human contact, though often with the exception of members of prison staff. It is sometimes employed as a form of punishment beyond incarceration for a prisoner and has been cited as an additional measure of protection from the inmate or is given for violations of prison regulations. It is also used as a form of protective custody and to implement a suicide watch. Solitary confinement is used as punishment for rebellious prisoners, and to prevent suicide. Nothing in my argument changes. So, you don't have an issue with prisoners protesting if solitary confinement is used improperly then, correct? | ||
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Jisall
United States2054 Posts
On July 13 2013 13:46 WolfintheSheep wrote: So, you don't have an issue with prisoners protesting if solitary confinement is used improperly then, correct? In a word, no. If they want to refuse food, that is their prerogative. I only sets them further back on their journey to socialization. The sooner they accept their situation and make the most of their time, the sooner they will get out. There is a reason prisoners get reduced sentences for "good behavior". I don't see solitary confinement being used inappropriately, and I do not see this protest causing any change. | ||
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BuddhaMonk
781 Posts
On July 13 2013 13:44 Jisall wrote: Ignoring your strawman, and quoting wikipedia + Show Spoiler + Solitary confinement is a special form of imprisonment in which a prisoner is isolated from any human contact, though often with the exception of members of prison staff. It is sometimes employed as a form of punishment beyond incarceration for a prisoner and has been cited as an additional measure of protection from the inmate or is given for violations of prison regulations. It is also used as a form of protective custody and to implement a suicide watch. Solitary confinement is used as punishment for rebellious prisoners, and to prevent suicide. Nothing in my argument changes. Funny how the Wikipedia article actually says nothing about rebellious prisoners, they cite instead (in your quote) that it is used when prison regulations are violated. In fact, if you were to continue reading the Wikipedia article, you would notice the section on the misuse and ineffectiveness of solitary confinement. So to answer the question you ignored, according to the source you provided, yes solitary confinement is used in cases other than when they're a danger to other prisoners. There's plenty of evidence of misuse. Which of course is corroborated by what this entire thread is about, namely the fact that the Supreme Court ruled that the conditions in California prisons, including but not limited to solitary confinement, constitutes a violation of the 8th amendment. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On July 13 2013 13:54 Jisall wrote: In a word, no. If they want to refuse food, that is their prerogative. I only sets them further back on their journey to socialization. The sooner they accept their situation and make the most of their time, the sooner they will get out. There is a reason prisoners get reduced sentences for "good behavior". I don't see solitary confinement being used inappropriately, and I do not see this protest causing any change. So...if their situation is illegal and violates human rights, they should just accept it? | ||
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stroggozzz
New Zealand81 Posts
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
On July 13 2013 13:44 Jisall wrote: Ignoring your strawman, and quoting wikipedia + Show Spoiler + Solitary confinement is a special form of imprisonment in which a prisoner is isolated from any human contact, though often with the exception of members of prison staff. It is sometimes employed as a form of punishment beyond incarceration for a prisoner and has been cited as an additional measure of protection from the inmate or is given for violations of prison regulations. It is also used as a form of protective custody and to implement a suicide watch. Solitary confinement is used as punishment for rebellious prisoners, and to prevent suicide. Nothing in my argument changes. First of all, saying that someone's just using a strawman argument so you're going to ignore it is ridiculous. Explain what's wrong with it or don't respond. Secondly, really? Your argument is to quote Wikipedia, which speaks against your own argument? You say that it's for prisoners who pose a danger to others in the prison. The very article that you quote says that it can be for "violations of prison regulations." So, you proved yourself wrong, and then proceeded to say that nothing in your argument changes. If you spent any time researching this beyond looking at Wikipedia, you would see that prisoners can be put into solitary confinement for any reason. It's solely up to the discretion of those in charge at any given prison. From solitarywatch.com/: [q]Today, inmates can be placed in complete isolation for months or years not only for violent acts but for possessing contraband, testing positive for drug use, ignoring orders, or using profanity. Thousands of prisoners are held in indefinite solitary confinement because they have been named as gang members by other inmates who are rewarded for the information. Others have ended up in solitary because they have untreated mental illnesses, are children in need of “protection,” are gay or transgender, are Muslim, have unsavory political beliefs, or report rape or abuse by prison officials. In Virginia, a group of Rastafarian men were placed in solitary–some for more than a decade–because they refused to cut their hair on religious grounds.[/q] And this is even without going into the issue of how damaging solitary confinement is, how little it actually does with regard to rehabilitation, and how wrong it is to think that simply threatening people with a punishment will prevent them committing infractions. | ||
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Iplaythings
Denmark9110 Posts
On July 11 2013 11:35 Assault_1 wrote: whats wrong with revenge? If someone killed my friend I wouldn't wanna "rehab" him, I'd want to make his life very shitty I am sure you are saving other lives from being shitty because of your petty revenge. And no, I am not only talking about his, also the otherlives that he will ruin if he is not rehabillitated, I am not religious but turning the other cheek solves more problems than your petty revenge will | ||
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sc2superfan101
3583 Posts
However, if I was in control of running these prisons, those prisoners would also, for damn sure, want to go back to old way and they would look at what they have now as a fucking dream of silk and honey, so maybe they don't have a point after all. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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2v2levels
United States88 Posts
On July 13 2013 10:59 Batibot wrote: You're in prison for doing something against the law. But, what if you did something bad while inside the prison? Do you just get to walk away? Hell, no. You want to punish someone for doing bad things for them to know that what they did is bad. Bad things done should deserve punishment same way as why good things done deserve a reward. Now, if word around the campfire says that you lose your mind when you're in solitary, I hope it instills the bad-things-done-punishment association with the prisoners. You don't get to prison without a justified reason (most of the time). You don't get to solitary confinement without you doing something. You're in prison to change, not to act tough and stay a bad egg. Solitary should be reserved for the worst offenses, not used as the default punishment for anything and everything. That's the point of the strike. RTFA | ||
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