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30k Prisoner Hunger Strike Protesting Solitary - Page 11

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Batibot
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Philippines348 Posts
July 13 2013 01:59 GMT
#201
You're in prison for doing something against the law. But, what if you did something bad while inside the prison? Do you just get to walk away? Hell, no. You want to punish someone for doing bad things for them to know that what they did is bad. Bad things done should deserve punishment same way as why good things done deserve a reward. Now, if word around the campfire says that you lose your mind when you're in solitary, I hope it instills the bad-things-done-punishment association with the prisoners. You don't get to prison without a justified reason (most of the time). You don't get to solitary confinement without you doing something.

You're in prison to change, not to act tough and stay a bad egg.
Jaedong has to be a Bonjwa. Tired of of rooting for July.
CatNzHat
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States1599 Posts
July 13 2013 02:08 GMT
#202
On July 12 2013 09:07 SoSexy wrote:
A prison should be one of the scariest place on earth. A place that makes you REALLY think MANY times 'is this crime really worth the possible, atrocious confinement?'

In this way, all the small crimes would decrease. The psychos would still go for it, but since you can't foresee a crime, you 'just' have to make sure they can't go out and repeat it again.

The example of northern country prisons is out of context: it can only work there, where people have a different mind set, the popolation is law and overall criminality is law. If you were to apply a Norway-like system to United States (but even Italy, Spain, France) people would EAT each others.


The problem with this is that people are being imprisoned for doing things that create no risk for anyone else, and they don't deserve to be treated as if they're animals. If we had better social benefits, healthcare, a more even wealth distribution, etc... there would be a lot less people forced into a situation of taking unlawful action just so they can survive.
wUndertUnge
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1125 Posts
July 13 2013 02:55 GMT
#203
On July 13 2013 10:59 Batibot wrote:
You're in prison for doing something against the law. But, what if you did something bad while inside the prison? Do you just get to walk away? Hell, no. You want to punish someone for doing bad things for them to know that what they did is bad. Bad things done should deserve punishment same way as why good things done deserve a reward. Now, if word around the campfire says that you lose your mind when you're in solitary, I hope it instills the bad-things-done-punishment association with the prisoners. You don't get to prison without a justified reason (most of the time). You don't get to solitary confinement without you doing something.

You're in prison to change, not to act tough and stay a bad egg.


Is anyone with this point of view actually reading the articles? People are being put into solitary in California jails for reasons such as suicide watch, which makes the mental afflictions worse, and also to free up space for incoming prisoners. New York jails are actually being found to do the same thing.

To those calling for punishment, fine, I understand that as a point of view; however, what is really being accomplished? Ok, we're punishing the individual. And then what? Is this really going to stop other prisoners or us from committing more crimes? How am I (and I take this from another person's argument) going to be deterred by a punishment that I don't even know is happening because of a lack of transparency halfway across the country?
Clan: QQGC - wundertunge#1850
TL+ Member
Jisall
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2054 Posts
July 13 2013 03:27 GMT
#204
We put prisoners in prison to separate them from society until they are in a position to live in society without causing harm to others. We put prisoners in solitary confinement when they pose a danger to their fellow prisoners. They are alone because they cannot be trusted with other people. The prisoners who go into solitary choose that path. They can play the victim, but until they learn that they are responsible for their own actions, there can be no progress. They knew about the consequences of their actions before they ended up in solitary, and used their actions to demonstrate that they wished to go there. You can pity them all you want, ultimately it was their choice to go there, and you are resisting their will.
Monk: Because being a badass is more fun then playing a dude wearing a scarf.. ... Ite fuck it, Witch Doctor cuz I like killing stuff in a timely mannor.
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
July 13 2013 03:39 GMT
#205
On July 13 2013 12:27 Jisall wrote:
We put prisoners in prison to separate them from society until they are in a position to live in society without causing harm to others. We put prisoners in solitary confinement when they pose a danger to their fellow prisoners. They are alone because they cannot be trusted with other people. The prisoners who go into solitary choose that path. They can play the victim, but until they learn that they are responsible for their own actions, there can be no progress. They knew about the consequences of their actions before they ended up in solitary, and used their actions to demonstrate that they wished to go there. You can pity them all you want, ultimately it was their choice to go there, and you are resisting their will.

Read the thread and stop repeating the same uninformed opinion that has been shot down again and again and again...
Average means I'm better than half of you.
OuchyDathurts
Profile Joined September 2010
United States4588 Posts
July 13 2013 03:58 GMT
#206
I'm pretty sure in some prisons you can be thrown in solitary for little infractions such as having contraband in your cell. Contraband isn't necessarily shanks or dangerous items. Things like tobacco, sugar, porn, non regulation clothing, radios, etc. Let's not be under the delusion that the only reason for solitary is trying to slit someones neck.
LiquidDota Staff
Djabanete
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States2786 Posts
July 13 2013 04:13 GMT
#207
A lot of posts in this thread are saying prisoners deserve whatever they get. It's not true. Prison is prison, it's already a punishment, and the point is to keep lawbreakers at a remove from society for everybody's safety, until they can come back. Civilized countries don't punish people with the rack or the thumbscrews just because they can, and they shouldn't punish people with years of psychological torture either. The goal should be a secure, controlled environment. Let's try to be one of those nations that goes in for human rights.
May the BeSt man win.
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
July 13 2013 04:15 GMT
#208
On July 13 2013 12:27 Jisall wrote:
We put prisoners in prison to separate them from society until they are in a position to live in society without causing harm to others. We put prisoners in solitary confinement when they pose a danger to their fellow prisoners. They are alone because they cannot be trusted with other people. The prisoners who go into solitary choose that path. They can play the victim, but until they learn that they are responsible for their own actions, there can be no progress. They knew about the consequences of their actions before they ended up in solitary, and used their actions to demonstrate that they wished to go there. You can pity them all you want, ultimately it was their choice to go there, and you are resisting their will.


What makes you think that people are only put in solitary confinement because they're a danger to other prisoners? Also, that argument is ridiculous. By that logic, having any punishment for any crime is ok, because as long as you don't commit the crime it's not an issue. Should people be executed for jaywalking because as long as they know it's a law they deserve what they get?
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
Jisall
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2054 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-13 04:45:02
July 13 2013 04:44 GMT
#209
On July 13 2013 13:15 GolemMadness wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 13 2013 12:27 Jisall wrote:
We put prisoners in prison to separate them from society until they are in a position to live in society without causing harm to others. We put prisoners in solitary confinement when they pose a danger to their fellow prisoners. They are alone because they cannot be trusted with other people. The prisoners who go into solitary choose that path. They can play the victim, but until they learn that they are responsible for their own actions, there can be no progress. They knew about the consequences of their actions before they ended up in solitary, and used their actions to demonstrate that they wished to go there. You can pity them all you want, ultimately it was their choice to go there, and you are resisting their will.


What makes you think that people are only put in solitary confinement because they're a danger to other prisoners?


Ignoring your strawman, and quoting wikipedia
+ Show Spoiler +
Solitary confinement is a special form of imprisonment in which a prisoner is isolated from any human contact, though often with the exception of members of prison staff. It is sometimes employed as a form of punishment beyond incarceration for a prisoner and has been cited as an additional measure of protection from the inmate or is given for violations of prison regulations. It is also used as a form of protective custody and to implement a suicide watch.


Solitary confinement is used as punishment for rebellious prisoners, and to prevent suicide. Nothing in my argument changes.
Monk: Because being a badass is more fun then playing a dude wearing a scarf.. ... Ite fuck it, Witch Doctor cuz I like killing stuff in a timely mannor.
Djabanete
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States2786 Posts
July 13 2013 04:46 GMT
#210
I've written to Governor Jerry Brown. For you fellow Californians, you can easily send him an email at this link: http://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php

Here is what I wrote. It's short, but it's that simple.

+ Show Spoiler +

Dear Governor Brown,
I am shocked and disturbed to learn about the practice of solitary confinement in
our state's prisons. Our current practices fall squarely within any definition of
psychological torture, and the solitary confinement of individuals for years at a time
is despicable.

I'm asking you to stand up for human rights. You will have my support.

Sincerely,
[name]
May the BeSt man win.
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
July 13 2013 04:46 GMT
#211
On July 13 2013 13:44 Jisall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 13 2013 13:15 GolemMadness wrote:
On July 13 2013 12:27 Jisall wrote:
We put prisoners in prison to separate them from society until they are in a position to live in society without causing harm to others. We put prisoners in solitary confinement when they pose a danger to their fellow prisoners. They are alone because they cannot be trusted with other people. The prisoners who go into solitary choose that path. They can play the victim, but until they learn that they are responsible for their own actions, there can be no progress. They knew about the consequences of their actions before they ended up in solitary, and used their actions to demonstrate that they wished to go there. You can pity them all you want, ultimately it was their choice to go there, and you are resisting their will.


What makes you think that people are only put in solitary confinement because they're a danger to other prisoners?


Ignoring your strawman, and quoting wikipedia
+ Show Spoiler +
Solitary confinement is a special form of imprisonment in which a prisoner is isolated from any human contact, though often with the exception of members of prison staff. It is sometimes employed as a form of punishment beyond incarceration for a prisoner and has been cited as an additional measure of protection from the inmate or is given for violations of prison regulations. It is also used as a form of protective custody and to implement a suicide watch.


Solitary confinement is used as punishment for rebellious prisoners, and to prevent suicide. Nothing in my argument changes.

So, you don't have an issue with prisoners protesting if solitary confinement is used improperly then, correct?
Average means I'm better than half of you.
Jisall
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2054 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-13 04:58:03
July 13 2013 04:54 GMT
#212
On July 13 2013 13:46 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 13 2013 13:44 Jisall wrote:
On July 13 2013 13:15 GolemMadness wrote:
On July 13 2013 12:27 Jisall wrote:
We put prisoners in prison to separate them from society until they are in a position to live in society without causing harm to others. We put prisoners in solitary confinement when they pose a danger to their fellow prisoners. They are alone because they cannot be trusted with other people. The prisoners who go into solitary choose that path. They can play the victim, but until they learn that they are responsible for their own actions, there can be no progress. They knew about the consequences of their actions before they ended up in solitary, and used their actions to demonstrate that they wished to go there. You can pity them all you want, ultimately it was their choice to go there, and you are resisting their will.


What makes you think that people are only put in solitary confinement because they're a danger to other prisoners?


Ignoring your strawman, and quoting wikipedia
+ Show Spoiler +
Solitary confinement is a special form of imprisonment in which a prisoner is isolated from any human contact, though often with the exception of members of prison staff. It is sometimes employed as a form of punishment beyond incarceration for a prisoner and has been cited as an additional measure of protection from the inmate or is given for violations of prison regulations. It is also used as a form of protective custody and to implement a suicide watch.


Solitary confinement is used as punishment for rebellious prisoners, and to prevent suicide. Nothing in my argument changes.

So, you don't have an issue with prisoners protesting if solitary confinement is used improperly then, correct?


In a word, no.

If they want to refuse food, that is their prerogative. I only sets them further back on their journey to socialization. The sooner they accept their situation and make the most of their time, the sooner they will get out. There is a reason prisoners get reduced sentences for "good behavior". I don't see solitary confinement being used inappropriately, and I do not see this protest causing any change.
Monk: Because being a badass is more fun then playing a dude wearing a scarf.. ... Ite fuck it, Witch Doctor cuz I like killing stuff in a timely mannor.
BuddhaMonk
Profile Joined August 2010
781 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-13 05:04:16
July 13 2013 05:01 GMT
#213
On July 13 2013 13:44 Jisall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 13 2013 13:15 GolemMadness wrote:
On July 13 2013 12:27 Jisall wrote:
We put prisoners in prison to separate them from society until they are in a position to live in society without causing harm to others. We put prisoners in solitary confinement when they pose a danger to their fellow prisoners. They are alone because they cannot be trusted with other people. The prisoners who go into solitary choose that path. They can play the victim, but until they learn that they are responsible for their own actions, there can be no progress. They knew about the consequences of their actions before they ended up in solitary, and used their actions to demonstrate that they wished to go there. You can pity them all you want, ultimately it was their choice to go there, and you are resisting their will.


What makes you think that people are only put in solitary confinement because they're a danger to other prisoners?


Ignoring your strawman, and quoting wikipedia
+ Show Spoiler +
Solitary confinement is a special form of imprisonment in which a prisoner is isolated from any human contact, though often with the exception of members of prison staff. It is sometimes employed as a form of punishment beyond incarceration for a prisoner and has been cited as an additional measure of protection from the inmate or is given for violations of prison regulations. It is also used as a form of protective custody and to implement a suicide watch.


Solitary confinement is used as punishment for rebellious prisoners, and to prevent suicide. Nothing in my argument changes.


Funny how the Wikipedia article actually says nothing about rebellious prisoners, they cite instead (in your quote) that it is used when prison regulations are violated. In fact, if you were to continue reading the Wikipedia article, you would notice the section on the misuse and ineffectiveness of solitary confinement. So to answer the question you ignored, according to the source you provided, yes solitary confinement is used in cases other than when they're a danger to other prisoners. There's plenty of evidence of misuse. Which of course is corroborated by what this entire thread is about, namely the fact that the Supreme Court ruled that the conditions in California prisons, including but not limited to solitary confinement, constitutes a violation of the 8th amendment.
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
July 13 2013 05:03 GMT
#214
On July 13 2013 13:54 Jisall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 13 2013 13:46 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On July 13 2013 13:44 Jisall wrote:
On July 13 2013 13:15 GolemMadness wrote:
On July 13 2013 12:27 Jisall wrote:
We put prisoners in prison to separate them from society until they are in a position to live in society without causing harm to others. We put prisoners in solitary confinement when they pose a danger to their fellow prisoners. They are alone because they cannot be trusted with other people. The prisoners who go into solitary choose that path. They can play the victim, but until they learn that they are responsible for their own actions, there can be no progress. They knew about the consequences of their actions before they ended up in solitary, and used their actions to demonstrate that they wished to go there. You can pity them all you want, ultimately it was their choice to go there, and you are resisting their will.


What makes you think that people are only put in solitary confinement because they're a danger to other prisoners?


Ignoring your strawman, and quoting wikipedia
+ Show Spoiler +
Solitary confinement is a special form of imprisonment in which a prisoner is isolated from any human contact, though often with the exception of members of prison staff. It is sometimes employed as a form of punishment beyond incarceration for a prisoner and has been cited as an additional measure of protection from the inmate or is given for violations of prison regulations. It is also used as a form of protective custody and to implement a suicide watch.


Solitary confinement is used as punishment for rebellious prisoners, and to prevent suicide. Nothing in my argument changes.

So, you don't have an issue with prisoners protesting if solitary confinement is used improperly then, correct?


In a word, no.

If they want to refuse food, that is their prerogative. I only sets them further back on their journey to socialization. The sooner they accept their situation and make the most of their time, the sooner they will get out. There is a reason prisoners get reduced sentences for "good behavior". I don't see solitary confinement being used inappropriately, and I do not see this protest causing any change.

So...if their situation is illegal and violates human rights, they should just accept it?
Average means I'm better than half of you.
stroggozzz
Profile Joined July 2013
New Zealand81 Posts
July 13 2013 05:14 GMT
#215
this thread reminds me of the time Christopher Hitchens thought water-boarding wasn't torture. Then he got water-boarded for 2 seconds and realized it was.

i drink ur milkshake
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
July 13 2013 11:42 GMT
#216
On July 13 2013 13:44 Jisall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 13 2013 13:15 GolemMadness wrote:
On July 13 2013 12:27 Jisall wrote:
We put prisoners in prison to separate them from society until they are in a position to live in society without causing harm to others. We put prisoners in solitary confinement when they pose a danger to their fellow prisoners. They are alone because they cannot be trusted with other people. The prisoners who go into solitary choose that path. They can play the victim, but until they learn that they are responsible for their own actions, there can be no progress. They knew about the consequences of their actions before they ended up in solitary, and used their actions to demonstrate that they wished to go there. You can pity them all you want, ultimately it was their choice to go there, and you are resisting their will.


What makes you think that people are only put in solitary confinement because they're a danger to other prisoners?


Ignoring your strawman, and quoting wikipedia
+ Show Spoiler +
Solitary confinement is a special form of imprisonment in which a prisoner is isolated from any human contact, though often with the exception of members of prison staff. It is sometimes employed as a form of punishment beyond incarceration for a prisoner and has been cited as an additional measure of protection from the inmate or is given for violations of prison regulations. It is also used as a form of protective custody and to implement a suicide watch.


Solitary confinement is used as punishment for rebellious prisoners, and to prevent suicide. Nothing in my argument changes.


First of all, saying that someone's just using a strawman argument so you're going to ignore it is ridiculous. Explain what's wrong with it or don't respond. Secondly, really? Your argument is to quote Wikipedia, which speaks against your own argument? You say that it's for prisoners who pose a danger to others in the prison. The very article that you quote says that it can be for "violations of prison regulations." So, you proved yourself wrong, and then proceeded to say that nothing in your argument changes.

If you spent any time researching this beyond looking at Wikipedia, you would see that prisoners can be put into solitary confinement for any reason. It's solely up to the discretion of those in charge at any given prison. From solitarywatch.com/:

[q]Today, inmates can be placed in complete isolation for months or years not only for violent acts but for possessing contraband, testing positive for drug use, ignoring orders, or using profanity. Thousands of prisoners are held in indefinite solitary confinement because they have been named as gang members by other inmates who are rewarded for the information. Others have ended up in solitary because they have untreated mental illnesses, are children in need of “protection,” are gay or transgender, are Muslim, have unsavory political beliefs, or report rape or abuse by prison officials. In Virginia, a group of Rastafarian men were placed in solitary–some for more than a decade–because they refused to cut their hair on religious grounds.[/q]

And this is even without going into the issue of how damaging solitary confinement is, how little it actually does with regard to rehabilitation, and how wrong it is to think that simply threatening people with a punishment will prevent them committing infractions.
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
Iplaythings
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Denmark9110 Posts
July 13 2013 12:12 GMT
#217
On July 11 2013 11:35 Assault_1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 11 2013 11:25 Velocirapture wrote:
On July 11 2013 11:20 a176 wrote:
You give them food and a place to sleep. What more do they deserve exactly?


Rehabilitation. If all the correction system does is lock people in a box until they go mad then there is no justice, just revenge.

whats wrong with revenge? If someone killed my friend I wouldn't wanna "rehab" him, I'd want to make his life very shitty

I am sure you are saving other lives from being shitty because of your petty revenge.

And no, I am not only talking about his, also the otherlives that he will ruin if he is not rehabillitated, I am not religious but turning the other cheek solves more problems than your petty revenge will
In the woods, there lurks..
sc2superfan101
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
3583 Posts
July 13 2013 12:20 GMT
#218
Honestly, as much as I fucking hate criminals (guilty ones), they have a point. Our prisons are disgusting and don't seem to work all that well at rehabilitating people.

However, if I was in control of running these prisons, those prisoners would also, for damn sure, want to go back to old way and they would look at what they have now as a fucking dream of silk and honey, so maybe they don't have a point after all.
My fake plants died because I did not pretend to water them.
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-13 12:36:53
July 13 2013 12:36 GMT
#219
good thing you're not running a prison I guess?
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
2v2levels
Profile Joined December 2012
United States88 Posts
July 13 2013 12:50 GMT
#220
On July 13 2013 10:59 Batibot wrote:
You're in prison for doing something against the law. But, what if you did something bad while inside the prison? Do you just get to walk away? Hell, no. You want to punish someone for doing bad things for them to know that what they did is bad. Bad things done should deserve punishment same way as why good things done deserve a reward. Now, if word around the campfire says that you lose your mind when you're in solitary, I hope it instills the bad-things-done-punishment association with the prisoners. You don't get to prison without a justified reason (most of the time). You don't get to solitary confinement without you doing something.

You're in prison to change, not to act tough and stay a bad egg.

Solitary should be reserved for the worst offenses, not used as the default punishment for anything and everything.

That's the point of the strike.

RTFA
A jack of all trades is a master of none.
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