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If the build has been posted, pls remove the thread, however i did a search and was not able to find it so I went ahead and extracted the build from Leenock's first game against Hero:
Leenock vs Liquid`Her0 (game 1) (9:02)
Two base openers is not something I have done a lot of experimentation with, so I was particularly interested in the games where this build was used.
The build:
15 pool
16 Hatch
15 Overlord
16 Queen
18 Ling *2
21 Gas
20 Queen
22 Overlord
*Queue up 3rd queen when the second is around 1/2 to a 2/3 finished.*
34 Overlord
100 gas - Speed
42 Overlord
44 Gas (2nd)
46 Double Evo (at around 150 gas)
~56 1-1 (melee)
~56 Expo
*When 1-1 is half finished he begins Lair*
*When Lair is half finished he begins gasses 3 and 4*
~75 Macro Hatch
*When the Lair finishes, he begins his Infestation Pit / 2-2 / and his Hive (all dependent on the availability of minerals rather than gas)*
*When he begins his Hive, he begins gasses 5 and 6*
*When the Hive finishes, the Ultralisk Cavern goes down, 3-3 and adrenal glands are queued up when 2-2 finish.*
He kills Hero at 16:00 with a composition of 5 - 7 Ultralisks, 6 Queens, 4 Infestors, and a spatter of lings.
It is important to note that Leenock floods lings around 30 food worth before the Ultras come out either to stay alive or attempt a run-by, a move that consequentially won Leenock at least a few games alone during the tournament.
Hope this helps anyone who may have been looking fr the build order. Please comment if there were other variations. Again this was taken from the game linked above.
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I have to say I saw the last day of the tornument where both JD and Leenock went for this style and I really didn't like it that much. The build seemed to have major vulnrabilites in both early game timings and before the ultras pop, it seemed to rely on protoss making a mistake and losing a lot of units to mid game lings or being too passive and ending up on 3 base versus 5+ situation where zerg wins by attrition.
Perhaps I'm underestimating 2/2 lings versus the lower upgrade protoss army but it seemed to me that every win I saw with this strat was due to some major mistakes on the protoss side.
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this built doesn't allow u to do silly mistakes or losing much drones either
more importantly not missing a single larva injects
this is why leenock so good with this built
loved this built but never be able to replicate it
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On April 29 2013 12:24 Azurues wrote:
this built doesn't allow u to do silly mistakes or losing much drones either
more importantly not missing a single larva injects
this is why leenock so good with this built
loved this built but never be able to replicate it
You should try to replicate it, why not? So, he's Leenock and he doesn't miss an inject, you won't being playing against LQ~Her0 either..
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On April 29 2013 12:20 IcemanAsi wrote:
I have to say I saw the last day of the tornument where both JD and Leenock went for this style and I really didn't like it that much. The build seemed to have major vulnrabilites in both early game timings and before the ultras pop, it seemed to rely on protoss making a mistake and losing a lot of units to mid game lings or being too passive and ending up on 3 base versus 5+ situation where zerg wins by attrition.
Perhaps I'm underestimating 2/2 lings versus the lower upgrade protoss army but it seemed to me that every win I saw with this strat was due to some major mistakes on the protoss side.
Actually this is a good build if you realize that its a three base allin with very tight timings. It basically stops protoss from going air since the lings will just flood the protoss base due to lack of a ground army in early game.
However if the protoss survives the first attack wave and gets the 3rd base up and gets a mix for a few archons, immortals and colossus in the army the its pretty much gg. This does not allow for a transition to roach, hydra, viper or broodlords. Since its so tight, the 4th gets delayed which makes it hard to get a good economy also to battle the deathball.
This was shown when Jaedong failed to kill Naniwa and naniwa just marched across the map and killed him. The possibility of transitions is so slim that Jaedong built swarm hosts which are pretty garbage units.
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On April 29 2013 12:52 WickedBit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2013 12:20 IcemanAsi wrote:
I have to say I saw the last day of the tornument where both JD and Leenock went for this style and I really didn't like it that much. The build seemed to have major vulnrabilites in both early game timings and before the ultras pop, it seemed to rely on protoss making a mistake and losing a lot of units to mid game lings or being too passive and ending up on 3 base versus 5+ situation where zerg wins by attrition.
Perhaps I'm underestimating 2/2 lings versus the lower upgrade protoss army but it seemed to me that every win I saw with this strat was due to some major mistakes on the protoss side. Actually this is a good build if you realize that its a three base allin with very tight timings. It basically stops protoss from going air since the lings will just flood the protoss base due to lack of a ground army in early game. However if the protoss survives the first attack wave and gets the 3rd base up and gets a mix for a few archons, immortals and colossus in the army the its pretty much gg. This does not allow for a transition to roach, hydra, viper or broodlords. Since its so tight, the 4th gets delayed which makes it hard to get a good economy also to battle the deathball. This was shown when Jaedong failed to kill Naniwa and naniwa just marched across the map and killed him. The possibility of transitions is so slim that Jaedong built swarm hosts which are pretty garbage units.
Although I agree that this build is hard to transition out of if you don't do damage, swarm hosts are the only thing that keeps zerg alive in late game ZvP and are most definitely not a "garbage" unit.
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On April 29 2013 14:02 BasicBarcode wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2013 12:52 WickedBit wrote:On April 29 2013 12:20 IcemanAsi wrote:
I have to say I saw the last day of the tornument where both JD and Leenock went for this style and I really didn't like it that much. The build seemed to have major vulnrabilites in both early game timings and before the ultras pop, it seemed to rely on protoss making a mistake and losing a lot of units to mid game lings or being too passive and ending up on 3 base versus 5+ situation where zerg wins by attrition.
Perhaps I'm underestimating 2/2 lings versus the lower upgrade protoss army but it seemed to me that every win I saw with this strat was due to some major mistakes on the protoss side. Actually this is a good build if you realize that its a three base allin with very tight timings. It basically stops protoss from going air since the lings will just flood the protoss base due to lack of a ground army in early game. However if the protoss survives the first attack wave and gets the 3rd base up and gets a mix for a few archons, immortals and colossus in the army the its pretty much gg. This does not allow for a transition to roach, hydra, viper or broodlords. Since its so tight, the 4th gets delayed which makes it hard to get a good economy also to battle the deathball. This was shown when Jaedong failed to kill Naniwa and naniwa just marched across the map and killed him. The possibility of transitions is so slim that Jaedong built swarm hosts which are pretty garbage units. Although I agree that this build is hard to transition out of if you don't do damage, swarm hosts are the only thing that keeps zerg alive in late game ZvP and are most definitely not a "garbage" unit.
I got to agree with BasicBarcode here, swarm hosts were the best call for a losing hand for Jaedong in that game. And they are definitively not a bad unit. Wait for about a month or two and you'll be seeing a lot of swarm hosts in GSL zvp. It's just not perfected yet, but If you watch Korean ladder streams you'll see they are used a lot.
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Swarm hosts are beasts indeed but not in small numbers like in JD's game. He should have brought some infestors imo.
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On April 29 2013 16:38 Karpfen wrote:
Swarm hosts are beasts indeed but not in small numbers like in JD's game. He should have brought some infestors imo.
He was drawing dead at that point anyway. I guess he was hoping that naniwa will play too passive and let him get out at least another wave or two of swarmhosts and then he might have had a chance. But naniwa knew it was time to attack.
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Beware of +1 attack gateway timings while doing this build. They chrono their +1 so it finishes before your armor. It's pretty much game over if you don't see it soon enough. Best response is roach warren. Panic response spinecrawlers. I've tried banelings against it without much success. Always check for a chronoboost on their forge.
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youre essentially rushing ultralisk tech (cmon, a 10 min hive?). keeping him busy with only mineral units by skipping units like roaches that require gas so he can tech up faster and get expensive upgrades is higher risk but higher reward. there are other solid builds out there that allow you to safely rush 3 3 and hive while using some tier 2 units to stay a live because we are all not leenock who can stay on lings all game and distract hero until u can get ultras out.
youve gotta realize had hero decided not to try to establish a third while teching to archons & immortals, he couldve flat out rolled leenock with just his zealot/collosus army because leenock had only 40~ lings all the way until the ultralisks came out.
apollo actually brings this up when hero scouts the build: does he push and kill him before the ultras come out, or try to get a third and tech up to counter them? in the end hero made the wrong choice.
anyone who tries to stay on only lings until ultras in zvp is going to have a bad time.
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Seems like it relies a lot on ling runbys for the mid game and the protoss making mistakes. I am not sure if this can actually hold against a strong 2-base colossus all-in since you basically rely on a bunch of upgraded lings which arent going to do all that much against forcefields+colossi until infestor/ultras are out.
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On April 29 2013 19:28 ManiacTheZealot wrote:
Beware of +1 attack gateway timings while doing this build. They chrono their +1 so it finishes before your armor. It's pretty much game over if you don't see it soon enough. Best response is roach warren. Panic response spinecrawlers. I've tried banelings against it without much success. Always check for a chronoboost on their forge.
this isn't really true, +1 attack timings are easy to defend if you're on 2 base, just make enough spines. Besides this kind of build where you get earlier lings and speed is good at denying proxy pylons.
Honestly I think the best against this build is just to get a third fast, with oracles/msc you can defend that quite easily against lings. By the time the ultra timing comes you can already have some voids and robo units mixed in with a decent sim city.
The problem is recognizing it I think, 2 base zerg always feels uneasy for me not knowing exactly what to do, especially since muta's are quite the threat.
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On April 29 2013 12:52 WickedBit wrote:
Actually this is a good build if you realize that its a three base allin with very tight timings. It basically stops protoss from going air since the lings will just flood the protoss base due to lack of a ground army in early game.
However if the protoss survives the first attack wave and gets the 3rd base up and gets a mix for a few archons, immortals and colossus in the army the its pretty much gg. This does not allow for a transition to roach, hydra, viper or broodlords. Since its so tight, the 4th gets delayed which makes it hard to get a good economy also to battle the deathball.
This was shown when Jaedong failed to kill Naniwa and naniwa just marched across the map and killed him. The possibility of transitions is so slim that Jaedong built swarm hosts which are pretty garbage units.
I agree that if the Protoss does manage to get a third (had one manage it really smoothly on Star Station with incredible sim city) and hits a 3 base timing it can get very nasty. Though it's not too hard to mix in some Blinding Cloud and/or Neural Parasite (which pairs very well with ultra's leading the charge) and that can completely change the battle.
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I actually really dislike this build. Considering that toss will always get +3 attack before zerg this build is really risky. If he scouts this build (which naniwa did after seeing fast doulbe evo he knew what was coming), you can counter it really easily. Immortals stalkers and especially archons do overwhelming damage to the ultras. That the lings are completely useless vs +3 archons is self explanatory. If protoss doesnt scout it and gets a too colo based army then yes, the build should work, but if you get scouted the protoss can easily adapt and beat it with ease.
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This sounds like a good strat for teamgames
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On April 29 2013 12:52 WickedBit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2013 12:20 IcemanAsi wrote:
I have to say I saw the last day of the tornument where both JD and Leenock went for this style and I really didn't like it that much. The build seemed to have major vulnrabilites in both early game timings and before the ultras pop, it seemed to rely on protoss making a mistake and losing a lot of units to mid game lings or being too passive and ending up on 3 base versus 5+ situation where zerg wins by attrition.
Perhaps I'm underestimating 2/2 lings versus the lower upgrade protoss army but it seemed to me that every win I saw with this strat was due to some major mistakes on the protoss side. Actually this is a good build if you realize that its a three base allin with very tight timings. It basically stops protoss from going air since the lings will just flood the protoss base due to lack of a ground army in early game. However if the protoss survives the first attack wave and gets the 3rd base up and gets a mix for a few archons, immortals and colossus in the army the its pretty much gg. This does not allow for a transition to roach, hydra, viper or broodlords. Since its so tight, the 4th gets delayed which makes it hard to get a good economy also to battle the deathball. This was shown when Jaedong failed to kill Naniwa and naniwa just marched across the map and killed him. The possibility of transitions is so slim that Jaedong built swarm hosts which are pretty garbage units.
I would be careful about assuming the toss can't go air. An Oracle or two is all a toss needs to prevent any ling runby. This hasn't caught on yet as evidenced by Naniwa being forced to cancel his 3rd nexus multiple times due to lings against JD. But had he built a single Oracle, the 3rd base would have been up 3 or 4 minutes earlier and the game wouldn't have even been close.
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On April 29 2013 23:34 onewaystyx wrote:
I actually really dislike this build. Considering that toss will always get +3 attack before zerg this build is really risky. If he scouts this build (which naniwa did after seeing fast doulbe evo he knew what was coming), you can counter it really easily. Immortals stalkers and especially archons do overwhelming damage to the ultras. That the lings are completely useless vs +3 archons is self explanatory. If protoss doesnt scout it and gets a too colo based army then yes, the build should work, but if you get scouted the protoss can easily adapt and beat it with ease.
stalkers do NOT do overwhelming damage to ultras, neither do archons, immortal count wont be very high due to the need of collossi production and templar tech in the midgame. if protoss could beat this with ease then why did hero, one of the better protoss on the planet have so little success?
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On April 29 2013 13:53 Just_a_Moth wrote:
Crazy zerg?
Ha, that's exactly what I thought it was. Well minus the mutas...still a really cool build.
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EPT
