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Situation Report: HoTS Balance

Forum Index > SC2 General
866 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 42 43 44 Next All
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16109 Posts
March 05 2013 00:04 GMT
#1
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/8896362/Situation_Report_Heart_of_the_Swarm_Balance-3_4_2013#c-8087758956 Posted: 4:00 PM PST 3/4/2013

+ Show Spoiler +
The Heart of the Swarm beta has come to an end and we’d like to thank you for making a huge difference and helping us address numerous issues. We’re very pleased with the level of participation and enthusiasm you brought to the beta test, and we appreciate all of the detailed feedback you’ve provided.

We hope to continue hearing from you long after the game goes live. In this update, we’d like to share our thoughts on the current state of balance for Heart of the Swarm.

To begin with, we’re not seeing any glaring issues right now for any matchup from Bronze through Master leagues, and our adjusted ratings for each league are actually showing that balance has steadily approached 50% over the course of the beta. Additionally, the top 30 for GM league is currently made up of 7 Zerg, 13 Terran, and 10 Protoss players, and the win/loss ratios for Heart of the Swarm tournament matches thus far have been solid for each race.

We feel the game’s balance is in a good place as we head into release, but that doesn’t mean we think it’s absolutely perfect. We’re always on the lookout for changes in how the game is played, and we track the community’s concerns as they come up so that we can adjust our views accordingly. We realize that just like with Wings of Liberty, not every player is going to take the game seriously until it goes live, and we’ll have to continue to tune Heart of the Swarm after release. While we’ll be keeping a close eye on concerns that some of you have with units such as the Hydralisk and Oracle, we don’t want to rush potentially drastic changes before we’ve had a chance to see how the game develops.

We feel that players still need time to really master HotS, and we need more high-level tournaments to take place in order to gauge these concerns as accurately as possible.

With that said, we'd like to address a couple of strategies that seem to frequently inspire debate among the community:

Medivacs with Ignite Afterburners are too strong.


When we first introduced this change, we mentioned how we think certain strategies are really awesome to see as a viewer, and this is a perfect example. Back in Wings, Medivac drops were all we were seeing at the pro level, but their use has greatly diminished over time as players learned to react and deal with them better.

Our general thinking on new units and abilities is that using them will always be learned faster than defending against them for obvious reasons. Because we’re already seeing some players defend against the new Medivacs extremely well, we definitely want to wait on this feedback to really make sure that it is in fact overpowered before making a change.

The strength of Protoss air, especially against Zerg.

We do somewhat agree that Protoss air, in combination with splash damage units, might be difficult for Zerg to deal with during no-rush 15 minute games in which both sides take an equal number of bases. However, we are not seeing signs of this in pro games. We do see Protoss players attempting this strategy often, but the success rate doesn’t seem high enough for us to deem it overpowered.

The main reason why we feel this way is that it’s difficult for Protoss to keep up in economy while executing this strategy. In pro level tournament games, we’ve seen this army composition countered in many different ways, and we’re pretty sure that even pros haven’t quite developed an optimal counter-strategy for dealing with Protoss air compositions.

We will definitely be keeping a close eye on where this strategy ends up, but right now our stance on air Protoss is that it’s really powerful, but we’re not seeing signs of it being broken to the point that Zerg has no chance against it.

Please remember that none of this is final, and we are still willing to make changes going forward. We’re constantly playing the game with all three races, watching as many tournaments and high-level streams as possible, analyzing community and pro feedback, and meeting on a daily basis just to discuss what we’re seeing. The game is changing rapidly at the moment because players are generally still in the learning phase for Heart of the Swarm, and our thoughts on a particular topic might change completely depending on how the game evolves. Please take everything we’ve said with that in mind, and we hope to continue working with our community to make StarCraft II as awesome as possible.

Thank you once again for all of the engaging discussions and constructive feedback during the beta. Your help has been, and continues to be, invaluable to us. We hope to see all of you on the Heart of the Swarm ladder come March 12.


I for one am happy they aren't doing anything drastic to start things off. This new reserved approach is a much better alternative to the roller coaster ride that was early WoL balance. Hopefully the end result is awesome but for right now I totally agree with everything Dayvie has said.

New David Kim post : 3/18/2013

Just wanted to let you know that our design team is watching every major match carefully and will continue doing so.

Some things we're noticing are:

- The super aggressive play is turning out to be really fun to watch.

- Nobody is close to figuring the game out yet.

- A few players are really changing up their play and having completely different results than what's expected by the majority.

- Some of the initial balance concerns do seem to be continuing in games whereas the more creative players aren't struggling as much against them.

Some things we're thinking of going forward:

- We'll try our best to not be too quick to make judgments on things that are allowing players to play a much more aggressive game. For example, yes Medivacs look strong but it's forcing even the opponents to play aggressive and the constant action throughout the game is looking to be really fun to watch.

- We'll continue watching all the pro and community concerns, but keep in mind we'd really like the game to settle before we step in and make a move.
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aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
Qikz
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United Kingdom12024 Posts
March 05 2013 00:07 GMT
#2
Pretty reasonable things they've said there. Glad they're not rushing in to buffing/nerfing anything because that's what made WoL so stale in the first place, they overnerfed everything before the game came out and didn't bufff anything back.
FanTaSy's #1 Fan | STPL Caster/Organiser | SKT BEST KT | https://twitch.tv/stpl
forsooth
Profile Joined February 2011
United States3648 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-05 00:10:50
March 05 2013 00:10 GMT
#3
Blizzard not in a hurry to nerf Terran for once? This is unprecedented.
Muggs
Profile Joined April 2010
United States148 Posts
March 05 2013 00:10 GMT
#4
Well I dont necessarily agree with it, but I cant fault them for being prudent.
QQQ
Profile Joined March 2010
China21 Posts
March 05 2013 00:11 GMT
#5
While we’ll be keeping a close eye on concerns that some of you have with units such as the Hydralisk and Oracle, we don’t want to rush potentially drastic changes before we’ve had a chance to see how the game develops.

Funny how they were really experimental with the hellbat but are still holding back on some other stuff. I wish they'd approach each race equally.
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
March 05 2013 00:12 GMT
#6
On March 05 2013 09:10 forsooth wrote:
Blizzard not in a hurry to nerf Terran for once? This is unprecedented.


Took them forever to nerf terran in wol to at the beginning .
When I think of something else, something will go here
Eggi
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
478 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-05 00:13:46
March 05 2013 00:12 GMT
#7
its not that speedvacs are OP,
the fact that it doesnt use energy does. It would be like stim without the damage....

no risk to not use it
once again blizzard doesnt understand. [insert idra past comment with the tire iron]
jinorazi
Profile Joined October 2004
Korea (South)4948 Posts
March 05 2013 00:14 GMT
#8
what happened to that terran unit that got pulled? the one with auto targeting (-,.-)
age: 84 | location: california | sex: 잘함
Laryleprakon
Profile Joined May 2011
New Zealand9496 Posts
March 05 2013 00:15 GMT
#9
It will be interesting to see the balance of IEM this weekend and see how accurate they are with this analysis.
Lunareste
Profile Joined July 2011
United States3596 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-05 00:16:42
March 05 2013 00:16 GMT
#10
On March 05 2013 09:12 SoOJuuu wrote:
its not that speedvacs are OP,
the fact that it doesnt use energy does. It would be like stim without the damage....

no risk to not use it
once again blizzard doesnt understand. [insert idra past comment with the tire iron]


Why is this inherently bad?

Saying Medivacs shouldn't be able to use Afterburners without cost is like saying that Blinking your Stalkers should cost shields. Units having useful abilities isn't a bad thing for the game, especially when their uses will eventually lead to differences in player skill.
KT FlaSh FOREVER
neoghaleon55
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7435 Posts
March 05 2013 00:16 GMT
#11
How boring. I've never seen such a long blog written over a non-change before.
moo...for DRG
forsooth
Profile Joined February 2011
United States3648 Posts
March 05 2013 00:16 GMT
#12
On March 05 2013 09:12 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2013 09:10 forsooth wrote:
Blizzard not in a hurry to nerf Terran for once? This is unprecedented.


Took them forever to nerf terran in wol to at the beginning .

Hmm? Terran nerfs came at a pretty steady pace all the way from release to the end of 2011.
Rorra
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia1066 Posts
March 05 2013 00:17 GMT
#13
I like that blizzard is taking a slower approach to balancing, yeah it sucks for non terrans that imbavac's wont be seeing a nerf anytime soon, but I'm way more confident that this approach to balancing will pay off in the long run.
askmc70
Profile Joined March 2012
United States722 Posts
March 05 2013 00:19 GMT
#14
On March 05 2013 09:17 Rorra wrote:
I like that blizzard is taking a slower approach to balancing, yeah it sucks for non terrans that imbavac's wont be seeing a nerf anytime soon, but I'm way more confident that this approach to balancing will pay off in the long run.

You shouldn't be confident in blizzard at balancing at all..
imJealous
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1382 Posts
March 05 2013 00:20 GMT
#15
You know I think its pretty hard to buy any argument that medivac speed boost doesn't need a minor nerf, but I don't mind them waiting until after the first round of post-release tournaments to make changes.
... In life very little goes right. "Right" meaning the way one expected and the way one wanted it. One has no right to want or expect anything.
ZenithM
Profile Joined February 2011
France15952 Posts
March 05 2013 00:21 GMT
#16
Pretty solid report if you ask me. Nothing was said about early game ZvT (which is the only other complain I can think of right now that I heard over the past few weeks), but it doesn't seem as troubling as it was when only third rate zergs were playing the beta. Now that the good zergs are done farming WoL prize money, we'll see how they deal with the new stuff.
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
March 05 2013 00:21 GMT
#17
cue forum warriors balance whining and reverse-balance whining! haha i think it is too early to say anything, myself
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
Qikz
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United Kingdom12024 Posts
March 05 2013 00:22 GMT
#18
I would like to say that if you're toss and want to learn to deal with speedvacs then seriously check out the MLG Showdown games from today. The toss dealt with them so damn well.
FanTaSy's #1 Fan | STPL Caster/Organiser | SKT BEST KT | https://twitch.tv/stpl
Corrosive
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada3741 Posts
March 05 2013 00:22 GMT
#19
On March 05 2013 09:19 askmc70 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2013 09:17 Rorra wrote:
I like that blizzard is taking a slower approach to balancing, yeah it sucks for non terrans that imbavac's wont be seeing a nerf anytime soon, but I'm way more confident that this approach to balancing will pay off in the long run.

You shouldn't be confident in blizzard at balancing at all..

dae hate blizzard lel

User was warned for this post
Maruprime.
baldgye
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom1100 Posts
March 05 2013 00:24 GMT
#20
On March 05 2013 09:16 Lunareste wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2013 09:12 SoOJuuu wrote:
its not that speedvacs are OP,
the fact that it doesnt use energy does. It would be like stim without the damage....

no risk to not use it
once again blizzard doesnt understand. [insert idra past comment with the tire iron]


Why is this inherently bad?

Saying Medivacs shouldn't be able to use Afterburners without cost is like saying that Blinking your Stalkers should cost shields. Units having useful abilities isn't a bad thing for the game, especially when their uses will eventually lead to differences in player skill.


Clearly you don't understand the game, as those things are not even close to similar.
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