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As a viewer I still don't like the mechanics of the 'mine' and the swarm host.
I find it really disappointing that this is actually the final form of these units.
How is it that Blizzard used months balancing the beta and never ask the audience the crucial questions like "Do you have fun playing with/against these units?" or "Is it fun to watch these kinds of tactics?".
I really feel they wasted their time in this beta.
With the sophistication of the editor they could have easily had 10 iterations of every new unit just to try out and get general feedback.
Hell, they would not even need to integrate them all into the live running beta version. Just make a custom micro challenge map with for example 10 lurker-like units, no need for correct animations or even different models. Just mix some spells and abilities together and put it out there, get feedback from the people and repeat the process.
Really disappointing from Blizzard and very disheartening if I think about LotV...
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On March 05 2013 09:12 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 09:10 forsooth wrote:
Blizzard not in a hurry to nerf Terran for once? This is unprecedented. Took them forever to nerf terran in wol to at the beginning  .
once it started they nerfed them every patch lol
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On March 05 2013 09:55 coasts wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 09:16 Lunareste wrote:On March 05 2013 09:12 SoOJuuu wrote:
its not that speedvacs are OP,
the fact that it doesnt use energy does. It would be like stim without the damage....
no risk to not use it
once again blizzard doesnt understand. [insert idra past comment with the tire iron] Why is this inherently bad? Saying Medivacs shouldn't be able to use Afterburners without cost is like saying that Blinking your Stalkers should cost shields. Units having useful abilities isn't a bad thing for the game, especially when their uses will eventually lead to differences in player skill. But do Medivacs need the afternurner ability? I think they were fine before and blizzard should have buffed terran in some other way (more tank damage?).
More anti-harass abilities are in HotS: mines, faster Mutas, Mothership Core, ranged Phoenix, etc. The general idea to buff harassment was sound, though the execution is questionable.
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On March 05 2013 09:36 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 09:26 SoOJuuu wrote:On March 05 2013 09:16 Lunareste wrote:On March 05 2013 09:12 SoOJuuu wrote:
its not that speedvacs are OP,
the fact that it doesnt use energy does. It would be like stim without the damage....
no risk to not use it
once again blizzard doesnt understand. [insert idra past comment with the tire iron] Why is this inherently bad? Saying Medivacs shouldn't be able to use Afterburners without cost is like saying that Blinking your Stalkers should cost shields. Units having useful abilities isn't a bad thing for the game, especially when their uses will eventually lead to differences in player skill. no using blink does have an effect, you have to remove one of your guys from battle for X second, you lose dps. There is a trade there. There is no trade for boosting medivacs. They just go. 0 trade off. They are stuck on the cooldown so that for 12 seconds after the boost ends, they cannot boost again. There's your trade-off.
Having medivacs that are faster than normal sometimes is strictly better than medivacs that are always normal speed. I don't think you understand what a trade-off is. Medivacs that are faster than normal some of the time are certainly worse than medivacs that can be faster than normal on-demand anytime you want, sure, but that's completely beside the point. It's an ability with no drawbacks. Whether or not you think it's too strong, you can't deny that fact.
To make it even clearer, suppose the afterburners was a passive ability that just triggered on its own, completely at random and out of your control every so often. Those erratic medivacs are clearly worse than the current ones, but are just as clearly better than Wings of Liberty medivacs, albeit better in awkward ways.
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On March 05 2013 09:19 askmc70 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 09:17 Rorra wrote:
I like that blizzard is taking a slower approach to balancing, yeah it sucks for non terrans that imbavac's wont be seeing a nerf anytime soon, but I'm way more confident that this approach to balancing will pay off in the long run. You shouldn't be confident in blizzard at balancing at all..
Why's that?
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I don´t like their approach to the Protoss super army. I think Wings has shown how bad it is if the races end up on different powerlevels in the endgame.
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On March 05 2013 10:03 Iranon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 09:36 Cyro wrote:On March 05 2013 09:26 SoOJuuu wrote:On March 05 2013 09:16 Lunareste wrote:On March 05 2013 09:12 SoOJuuu wrote:
its not that speedvacs are OP,
the fact that it doesnt use energy does. It would be like stim without the damage....
no risk to not use it
once again blizzard doesnt understand. [insert idra past comment with the tire iron] Why is this inherently bad? Saying Medivacs shouldn't be able to use Afterburners without cost is like saying that Blinking your Stalkers should cost shields. Units having useful abilities isn't a bad thing for the game, especially when their uses will eventually lead to differences in player skill. no using blink does have an effect, you have to remove one of your guys from battle for X second, you lose dps. There is a trade there. There is no trade for boosting medivacs. They just go. 0 trade off. They are stuck on the cooldown so that for 12 seconds after the boost ends, they cannot boost again. There's your trade-off. Having medivacs that are faster than normal sometimes is strictly better than medivacs that are always normal speed. I don't think you understand what a trade-off is. Medivacs that are faster than normal some of the time are certainly worse than medivacs that can be faster than normal on-demand anytime you want, sure, but that's completely beside the point. It's an ability with no drawbacks. Whether or not you think it's too strong, you can't deny that fact. To make it even clearer, suppose the afterburners was a passive ability that just triggered on its own, completely at random and out of your control every so often. Those erratic medivacs are clearly worse than the current ones, but are just as clearly better than Wings of Liberty medivacs, albeit better in awkward ways.
And how is that any different than blink?
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On March 05 2013 09:57 lord_nibbler wrote:
As a viewer I still don't like the mechanics of the 'mine' and the swarm host.
I find it really disappointing that this is actually the final form of these units.
How is it that Blizzard used months balancing the beta and never ask the audience the crucial questions like "Do you have fun playing with/against these units?" or "Is it fun to watch these kinds of tactics?".
I really feel they wasted their time in this beta.
With the sophistication of the editor they could have easily had 10 iterations of every new unit just to try out and get general feedback.
Hell, they would not even need to integrate them all into the live running beta version. Just make a custom micro challenge map with for example 10 lurker-like units, no need for correct animations or even different models. Just mix some spells and abilities together and put it out there, get feedback from the people and repeat the process.
Really disappointing from Blizzard and very disheartening if I think about LotV...
what's funny is they actually have a team or something like that of people experienced with sc2 and people with no experience and they ask these groups of people their opinion on the game from a spectators pov. I think they mentioned this in their last blizzcon interviews or something around that time. I remember david kim talking about this.
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On March 05 2013 10:03 Iranon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 09:36 Cyro wrote:On March 05 2013 09:26 SoOJuuu wrote:On March 05 2013 09:16 Lunareste wrote:On March 05 2013 09:12 SoOJuuu wrote:
its not that speedvacs are OP,
the fact that it doesnt use energy does. It would be like stim without the damage....
no risk to not use it
once again blizzard doesnt understand. [insert idra past comment with the tire iron] Why is this inherently bad? Saying Medivacs shouldn't be able to use Afterburners without cost is like saying that Blinking your Stalkers should cost shields. Units having useful abilities isn't a bad thing for the game, especially when their uses will eventually lead to differences in player skill. no using blink does have an effect, you have to remove one of your guys from battle for X second, you lose dps. There is a trade there. There is no trade for boosting medivacs. They just go. 0 trade off. They are stuck on the cooldown so that for 12 seconds after the boost ends, they cannot boost again. There's your trade-off. Having medivacs that are faster than normal sometimes is strictly better than medivacs that are always normal speed. I don't think you understand what a trade-off is. Medivacs that are faster than normal some of the time are certainly worse than medivacs that can be faster than normal on-demand anytime you want, sure, but that's completely beside the point. It's an ability with no drawbacks. Whether or not you think it's too strong, you can't deny that fact. To make it even clearer, suppose the afterburners was a passive ability that just triggered on its own, completely at random and out of your control every so often. Those erratic medivacs are clearly worse than the current ones, but are just as clearly better than Wings of Liberty medivacs, albeit better in awkward ways.
I don't see why it's inherently bad that a unit has an ability with no resource cost other than time. Especially when it's not really something is strictly better if spammed (used every cooldown).
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On March 05 2013 09:04 Vindicare605 wrote:
The strength of Protoss air, especially against Zerg.
We do somewhat agree that Protoss air, in combination with splash damage units, might be difficult for Zerg to deal with during no-rush 15 minute games in which both sides take an equal number of bases. However, we are not seeing signs of this in pro games. We do see Protoss players attempting this strategy often, but the success rate doesn’t seem high enough for us to deem it overpowered.
I dont know why, but this made me laugh a lot when I read it. I think it might be a passive-aggressive at some of the more vocal people in the community, but maybe I'm wrong. Either way, something about that made me laugh, haha. WP.
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What the hell Blizzard?!
Are you trying to tell me that we're getting a whole goddamn expansion without a bunker or barracks change!
Glad to see them taking the slow route even if I'm finding certain match ups (looking at you ZvP) to be really frustrating at the moment.
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On March 05 2013 10:12 tshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 09:04 Vindicare605 wrote:
The strength of Protoss air, especially against Zerg.
We do somewhat agree that Protoss air, in combination with splash damage units, might be difficult for Zerg to deal with during no-rush 15 minute games in which both sides take an equal number of bases. However, we are not seeing signs of this in pro games. We do see Protoss players attempting this strategy often, but the success rate doesn’t seem high enough for us to deem it overpowered. I dont know why, but this made me laugh a lot when I read it. I think it might be a passive-aggressive at some of the more vocal people in the community, but maybe I'm wrong. Either way, something about that made me laugh, haha. WP.
He's just being frank which frankly I am appreciative of.
It's been known forever in Brood War and in SC2 that sometimes if you can't just sit and let your opponent build whatever he wants. In SC2 that's only ever really been true of Zergs with their ultra powerful late game armies. We'll have to see how the reverse works and if PvZ can evolve to a dynamic similar to what we saw in Brood War.
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I want to understand,why are Speedmedivacs supposed to be OP and need a Nerf??? In WoL is pretty easy to totally shut down a drop,so if we got some improvement,its fine.Where is the issue?
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On March 05 2013 10:17 Dvriel wrote:
I want to understand,why are Speedmedivacs supposed to be OP and need a Nerf??? In WoL is pretty easy to totally shut down a drop,so if we got some improvement,its fine.Where is the issue?
as stated before, its that theres no drawback in using the boosters. Don't get me wrong, in WoL, drops lost most of their strength because players are just much more prepared for them, so a buff was needed, but i could definitely see top tier terrans pulling off triple/quadruple drops and wrecking the infrastructure of their opponents and they just zip out of there with minimal damage and be back in time to join up with the main army so they dont just flat out die to any kind of deathball counterattack.
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On March 05 2013 09:21 opterown wrote:
cue forum warriors balance whining and reverse-balance whining! haha i think it is too early to say anything, myself
I like the comment that "This army seems amazing in 15 minute no rush games. However, in the rest of the world where we attack each other before our fourth base..."
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Come ON.....
Nerf the medivac boosters, none will play terran. the major things in terran arsenal are : Hellbat, widow mines and medivacs........so if they take medivacs, they will be weak like in WoL. Sniped by mutas, stalkers. It is exciting as a viewer to see the speed boost too
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On March 05 2013 10:10 forsooth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 10:03 Iranon wrote:On March 05 2013 09:36 Cyro wrote:On March 05 2013 09:26 SoOJuuu wrote:On March 05 2013 09:16 Lunareste wrote:On March 05 2013 09:12 SoOJuuu wrote:
its not that speedvacs are OP,
the fact that it doesnt use energy does. It would be like stim without the damage....
no risk to not use it
once again blizzard doesnt understand. [insert idra past comment with the tire iron] Why is this inherently bad? Saying Medivacs shouldn't be able to use Afterburners without cost is like saying that Blinking your Stalkers should cost shields. Units having useful abilities isn't a bad thing for the game, especially when their uses will eventually lead to differences in player skill. no using blink does have an effect, you have to remove one of your guys from battle for X second, you lose dps. There is a trade there. There is no trade for boosting medivacs. They just go. 0 trade off. They are stuck on the cooldown so that for 12 seconds after the boost ends, they cannot boost again. There's your trade-off. Having medivacs that are faster than normal sometimes is strictly better than medivacs that are always normal speed. I don't think you understand what a trade-off is. Medivacs that are faster than normal some of the time are certainly worse than medivacs that can be faster than normal on-demand anytime you want, sure, but that's completely beside the point. It's an ability with no drawbacks. Whether or not you think it's too strong, you can't deny that fact. To make it even clearer, suppose the afterburners was a passive ability that just triggered on its own, completely at random and out of your control every so often. Those erratic medivacs are clearly worse than the current ones, but are just as clearly better than Wings of Liberty medivacs, albeit better in awkward ways. And how is that any different than blink?
Stalkers can't fly or take 8 supply of units with them, but I see your point. A slightly longer cool down would likely be a good thing.
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On March 05 2013 10:24 EyesOnMe wrote:
Come ON.....
Nerf the medivac boosters, none will play terran. the major things in terran arsenal are : Hellbat, widow mines and medivacs........so if they take medivacs, they will be weak like in WoL. Sniped by mutas, stalkers. It is exciting as a viewer to see the speed boost too
It would be more exciting to watch if there was a (energy) cost associated with it, so you could see the decision making that goes into the boosts.
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On March 05 2013 10:26 Tachion wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 10:24 EyesOnMe wrote:
Come ON.....
Nerf the medivac boosters, none will play terran. the major things in terran arsenal are : Hellbat, widow mines and medivacs........so if they take medivacs, they will be weak like in WoL. Sniped by mutas, stalkers. It is exciting as a viewer to see the speed boost too It would be more exciting to watch if there was a (energy) cost associated with it, so you could see the decision making that goes into the boosts.
I think that would just lead to people not using it or people turning off healing. I think a cool down is fine, it just needs to be slightly longer between each boost.
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hots isn't even out for 3months+ with that patch, not sure how anything can be considered imba or op.
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EPT
