• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 16:01
CEST 22:01
KST 05:01
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202544RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams4Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 RSL Season 1 - Final Week The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
Ginuda's JaeDong Interview Series BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL20 Preliminary Maps BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams BW General Discussion
Tourneys
CSL Xiamen International Invitational [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 748 users

Situation Report: HoTS Balance - Page 5

Forum Index > SC2 General
866 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 42 43 44 Next All
synd
Profile Joined July 2011
Bulgaria586 Posts
March 05 2013 02:30 GMT
#81
What Blizzard will never learn to appreciate is tournament money given away during imbalance.
So it was in WoL inb4 the needed terran nerfs, GomTvT, Warp gate ridiculously little research time.
Now in WoL, the patchzergs and Blizzard's 'I don't care at all' politic.
Seems like in HotS things will continue.
Blizzard will still be retards about their own game and won't make the needed changes soon or at all.
Pazuzu
Profile Joined July 2011
United States632 Posts
March 05 2013 02:34 GMT
#82
they have the right attitude, and I trust that they will make the changes as they see fit. Protoss was never nerfed after the laser ball was absurdly powerful a year or two ago, since people had yet to realize the utility of the infestor. Just becuase there hasn't been a counter strategy developed immediately within two weeks does not mean that something is overpowered. Especially since this is the beta now its best that they're being prudent before making changes
"It is because intuition is sometimes right, that we don't know what to do with it"
Iranon
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States983 Posts
March 05 2013 02:34 GMT
#83
On March 05 2013 11:05 Sadist wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2013 10:03 Iranon wrote:
On March 05 2013 09:36 Cyro wrote:
On March 05 2013 09:26 SoOJuuu wrote:
On March 05 2013 09:16 Lunareste wrote:
On March 05 2013 09:12 SoOJuuu wrote:
its not that speedvacs are OP,
the fact that it doesnt use energy does. It would be like stim without the damage....

no risk to not use it
once again blizzard doesnt understand. [insert idra past comment with the tire iron]


Why is this inherently bad?

Saying Medivacs shouldn't be able to use Afterburners without cost is like saying that Blinking your Stalkers should cost shields. Units having useful abilities isn't a bad thing for the game, especially when their uses will eventually lead to differences in player skill.


no using blink does have an effect, you have to remove one of your guys from battle for X second, you lose dps. There is a trade there.

There is no trade for boosting medivacs. They just go. 0 trade off.


They are stuck on the cooldown so that for 12 seconds after the boost ends, they cannot boost again. There's your trade-off.


Having medivacs that are faster than normal sometimes is strictly better than medivacs that are always normal speed. I don't think you understand what a trade-off is. Medivacs that are faster than normal some of the time are certainly worse than medivacs that can be faster than normal on-demand anytime you want, sure, but that's completely beside the point. It's an ability with no drawbacks. Whether or not you think it's too strong, you can't deny that fact.

To make it even clearer, suppose the afterburners was a passive ability that just triggered on its own, completely at random and out of your control every so often. Those erratic medivacs are clearly worse than the current ones, but are just as clearly better than Wings of Liberty medivacs, albeit better in awkward ways.



Where is the drawback to warpgate?




There isn't one. I didn't say abilities needed to have drawbacks to be balanced; I even clarified this in my second post. I just said that having a cooldown on an ability is not a drawback, it's a cost.
vthree
Profile Joined November 2011
Hong Kong8039 Posts
March 05 2013 02:34 GMT
#84
On March 05 2013 11:05 sitromit wrote:
In before they get egg on their faces after IEM results come in and do a 180.


lol, you think they actually look at results? Even if IEM has no zergs in the top 12. They will still claim win rate is 50/50 on ladder and everything is fine.
c0sm0naut
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1229 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-05 02:40:49
March 05 2013 02:40 GMT
#85
On March 05 2013 11:34 vthree wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2013 11:05 sitromit wrote:
In before they get egg on their faces after IEM results come in and do a 180.


lol, you think they actually look at results? Even if IEM has no zergs in the top 12. They will still claim win rate is 50/50 on ladder and everything is fine.



they always pay attention if zerg is losing

ie. IEM Cologne , and the "creep nerf" that never happened

edit: i'd say if zerg has a bad showing, they will consider it. but don't expect them to completely change the fundamentals of a game that is extremely close to launch because of a handful of touranment results
nomyx
Profile Joined June 2012
United States2205 Posts
March 05 2013 02:41 GMT
#86
At least blizzard has improved. I'm confident we will never have another reaper incident again. I'm glad that they listened to our feedback and by the time LotV comes out I think we'll have a damn good RTS
WhiteSatin
Profile Joined December 2012
United States308 Posts
March 05 2013 02:41 GMT
#87
I'm so glad they are not changing the meds, if they nerf it T lost pretty much the only cool ability they gained in HOTS.
Tuczniak
Profile Joined September 2010
1561 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-05 02:47:42
March 05 2013 02:46 GMT
#88
On March 05 2013 11:34 Pazuzu wrote:
they have the right attitude, and I trust that they will make the changes as they see fit. Protoss was never nerfed after the laser ball was absurdly powerful a year or two ago, since people had yet to realize the utility of the infestor. Just becuase there hasn't been a counter strategy developed immediately within two weeks does not mean that something is overpowered. Especially since this is the beta now its best that they're being prudent before making changes
You have to remember that in patch 1.3.0 fungal dps increased +100% (+160% vs armored). People suddenly didn't just realize it was good. That composition was broken before, it just took blizz time to realize that.
Meadowlark
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States349 Posts
March 05 2013 02:53 GMT
#89
Seems like a pretty reasonable statement. I'm not really a fan of insta-nerfs.
''Three bottles of Monster in a day; I'm pumped as fuck." -Stephano
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12387 Posts
March 05 2013 02:56 GMT
#90
I have said it several times already, problem with the medivac speed is not it is too fast, the problem is it is too fast coming too early in the game
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
suicideyear
Profile Joined December 2012
Ivory Coast3016 Posts
March 05 2013 02:56 GMT
#91
i don't think IEM is going to be on the most recent patch with changes to whateverwhatever.
)))____◎◎◎◎█████
Ry2D2
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States429 Posts
March 05 2013 03:00 GMT
#92
remove hellbat bio tag bc it makes no sense lorewise and seems unnecessary multiplayer wise. hellbats are enticing enough as is
Alryk
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States2718 Posts
March 05 2013 03:01 GMT
#93
On March 05 2013 09:24 baldgye wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2013 09:16 Lunareste wrote:
On March 05 2013 09:12 SoOJuuu wrote:
its not that speedvacs are OP,
the fact that it doesnt use energy does. It would be like stim without the damage....

no risk to not use it
once again blizzard doesnt understand. [insert idra past comment with the tire iron]


Why is this inherently bad?

Saying Medivacs shouldn't be able to use Afterburners without cost is like saying that Blinking your Stalkers should cost shields. Units having useful abilities isn't a bad thing for the game, especially when their uses will eventually lead to differences in player skill.


Clearly you don't understand the game, as those things are not even close to similar.


Clearly you don't understand the game, as those things are really quite similar.

Our statements definitely SEEM similar... at the very least, they both share a fantastic lack of evidence.

IMO: medivacs are strong, but so is P air. And zerg is.. not sure. I don't think people are using vipers enough. It's definitely too early to make any big changes, now that we're out of beta. I'm hoping to see what strats people come up with.
Team Liquid, IM, ViOlet!
MCXD
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Australia2738 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-05 03:05:36
March 05 2013 03:04 GMT
#94
I really don't think there is anything exciting about stupidly fast medivacs, as a spectator. Especially as a spectator myself; I haven't left bronze league in my life (so it's hardly a player's opinion). If that's seriously their only reason for keeping it exactly as it is now... ugh.
ke_ivan
Profile Joined February 2011
Singapore374 Posts
March 05 2013 03:06 GMT
#95
but but terran doesn't have viable air units yet trololol
c0sm0naut
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1229 Posts
March 05 2013 03:07 GMT
#96
On March 05 2013 12:01 Alryk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2013 09:24 baldgye wrote:
On March 05 2013 09:16 Lunareste wrote:
On March 05 2013 09:12 SoOJuuu wrote:
its not that speedvacs are OP,
the fact that it doesnt use energy does. It would be like stim without the damage....

no risk to not use it
once again blizzard doesnt understand. [insert idra past comment with the tire iron]


Why is this inherently bad?

Saying Medivacs shouldn't be able to use Afterburners without cost is like saying that Blinking your Stalkers should cost shields. Units having useful abilities isn't a bad thing for the game, especially when their uses will eventually lead to differences in player skill.


Clearly you don't understand the game, as those things are not even close to similar.


Clearly you don't understand the game, as those things are really quite similar.

Our statements definitely SEEM similar... at the very least, they both share a fantastic lack of evidence.

IMO: medivacs are strong, but so is P air. And zerg is.. not sure. I don't think people are using vipers enough. It's definitely too early to make any big changes, now that we're out of beta. I'm hoping to see what strats people come up with.


i have to agree with alryk on this one... you're trying to argue that blink (mobility increasing ability) with a cooldown is fundamentally different than ignite afterburners (mobility increasing ability) with a cooldown

you can argue, "well if you blink when your stalker isn't in danger, then you cant blink to get away"
we can argue, "well if you boost when your dropship isn't in danger, then you cant boost to get away"

it's the same exact thing,,,, how can you argue this?
Defacer
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada5052 Posts
March 05 2013 03:22 GMT
#97
I'm just a mere mortal, but when I watch pro zerg streams I never see them beat skytoss ... is it just a matter of being able to identify and punish the strategy early?
nomyx
Profile Joined June 2012
United States2205 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-05 03:26:27
March 05 2013 03:25 GMT
#98
On March 05 2013 12:06 ke_ivan wrote:
but but terran doesn't have viable air units yet trololol


Battle cruiser got some nice buffs in HotS

Yamato Cannon is now 100 energy, down from 125. So at max energy you can yamato twice per BC
Air to Ground attack has been buffed from 8 to 10. With an Attack Speed of .225 they deal 44.4 DPS with no upgrades

With +3 to air, they'll deal 13 damage with each attack, which gives them a DPS of 57.7 against ground units.

SuperYo1000
Profile Joined July 2008
United States880 Posts
March 05 2013 03:26 GMT
#99
On March 05 2013 12:22 Defacer wrote:
I'm just a mere mortal, but when I watch pro zerg streams I never see them beat skytoss ... is it just a matter of being able to identify and punish the strategy early?



pretty much for right now. Protoss air is extremely gas heavy. Once its identified zerg needs to find out how to be aggressive. Its a new feeling for zerg. Its pretty much opposite to what they are used to so its going to take some time for zerg to figure it out
bobsire
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada296 Posts
March 05 2013 03:28 GMT
#100
medivac boost is not OP. Blizz is right... learn to deal with it instead of complaining.
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 42 43 44 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 13h 59m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Hui .277
Nathanias 98
BRAT_OK 62
MindelVK 26
ForJumy 12
StarCraft: Brood War
Mini 861
Bale 7
TT1 7
JulyZerg 4
Dota 2
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
Fnx 802
Stewie2K386
flusha235
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu460
Other Games
Grubby3202
FrodaN1732
tarik_tv1478
C9.Mang0152
Sick25
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 21 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta159
• StrangeGG 39
• HeavenSC 17
• poizon28 13
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• 80smullet 23
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22445
League of Legends
• Nemesis2543
• TFBlade1043
Other Games
• imaqtpie1201
• WagamamaTV392
• Shiphtur339
Upcoming Events
Esports World Cup
13h 59m
Reynor vs Zoun
Solar vs SHIN
Classic vs ShoWTimE
Cure vs Rogue
Esports World Cup
1d 14h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
CSO Cup
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
5 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.