• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 00:35
CEST 06:35
KST 13:35
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash8[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy13ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20
Community News
Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple5Aligulac acquired by REPLAYMAN.com/Stego Research6Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises3Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool49Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win4
StarCraft 2
General
Aligulac acquired by REPLAYMAN.com/Stego Research Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2) herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Season 4 announced for March-April StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) WardiTV Mondays World University TeamLeague (500$+) | Signups Open
Strategy
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Frigid Storage Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
Mutation # 519 Inner Power The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone Mutation # 517 Distant Threat
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Build Order Practice Maps [ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Pros React To: SoulKey vs Ample
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro24 Group F [ASL21] Ro24 Group E 🌍 Weekly Foreign Showmatches [ASL21] Ro24 Group B
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Darkest Dungeon
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9262 users

Situation Report: HoTS Balance - Page 5

Forum Index > SC2 General
866 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 42 43 44 Next All
synd
Profile Joined July 2011
Bulgaria586 Posts
March 05 2013 02:30 GMT
#81
What Blizzard will never learn to appreciate is tournament money given away during imbalance.
So it was in WoL inb4 the needed terran nerfs, GomTvT, Warp gate ridiculously little research time.
Now in WoL, the patchzergs and Blizzard's 'I don't care at all' politic.
Seems like in HotS things will continue.
Blizzard will still be retards about their own game and won't make the needed changes soon or at all.
Pazuzu
Profile Joined July 2011
United States632 Posts
March 05 2013 02:34 GMT
#82
they have the right attitude, and I trust that they will make the changes as they see fit. Protoss was never nerfed after the laser ball was absurdly powerful a year or two ago, since people had yet to realize the utility of the infestor. Just becuase there hasn't been a counter strategy developed immediately within two weeks does not mean that something is overpowered. Especially since this is the beta now its best that they're being prudent before making changes
"It is because intuition is sometimes right, that we don't know what to do with it"
Iranon
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States983 Posts
March 05 2013 02:34 GMT
#83
On March 05 2013 11:05 Sadist wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2013 10:03 Iranon wrote:
On March 05 2013 09:36 Cyro wrote:
On March 05 2013 09:26 SoOJuuu wrote:
On March 05 2013 09:16 Lunareste wrote:
On March 05 2013 09:12 SoOJuuu wrote:
its not that speedvacs are OP,
the fact that it doesnt use energy does. It would be like stim without the damage....

no risk to not use it
once again blizzard doesnt understand. [insert idra past comment with the tire iron]


Why is this inherently bad?

Saying Medivacs shouldn't be able to use Afterburners without cost is like saying that Blinking your Stalkers should cost shields. Units having useful abilities isn't a bad thing for the game, especially when their uses will eventually lead to differences in player skill.


no using blink does have an effect, you have to remove one of your guys from battle for X second, you lose dps. There is a trade there.

There is no trade for boosting medivacs. They just go. 0 trade off.


They are stuck on the cooldown so that for 12 seconds after the boost ends, they cannot boost again. There's your trade-off.


Having medivacs that are faster than normal sometimes is strictly better than medivacs that are always normal speed. I don't think you understand what a trade-off is. Medivacs that are faster than normal some of the time are certainly worse than medivacs that can be faster than normal on-demand anytime you want, sure, but that's completely beside the point. It's an ability with no drawbacks. Whether or not you think it's too strong, you can't deny that fact.

To make it even clearer, suppose the afterburners was a passive ability that just triggered on its own, completely at random and out of your control every so often. Those erratic medivacs are clearly worse than the current ones, but are just as clearly better than Wings of Liberty medivacs, albeit better in awkward ways.



Where is the drawback to warpgate?




There isn't one. I didn't say abilities needed to have drawbacks to be balanced; I even clarified this in my second post. I just said that having a cooldown on an ability is not a drawback, it's a cost.
vthree
Profile Joined November 2011
Hong Kong8039 Posts
March 05 2013 02:34 GMT
#84
On March 05 2013 11:05 sitromit wrote:
In before they get egg on their faces after IEM results come in and do a 180.


lol, you think they actually look at results? Even if IEM has no zergs in the top 12. They will still claim win rate is 50/50 on ladder and everything is fine.
c0sm0naut
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1229 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-05 02:40:49
March 05 2013 02:40 GMT
#85
On March 05 2013 11:34 vthree wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2013 11:05 sitromit wrote:
In before they get egg on their faces after IEM results come in and do a 180.


lol, you think they actually look at results? Even if IEM has no zergs in the top 12. They will still claim win rate is 50/50 on ladder and everything is fine.



they always pay attention if zerg is losing

ie. IEM Cologne , and the "creep nerf" that never happened

edit: i'd say if zerg has a bad showing, they will consider it. but don't expect them to completely change the fundamentals of a game that is extremely close to launch because of a handful of touranment results
nomyx
Profile Joined June 2012
United States2205 Posts
March 05 2013 02:41 GMT
#86
At least blizzard has improved. I'm confident we will never have another reaper incident again. I'm glad that they listened to our feedback and by the time LotV comes out I think we'll have a damn good RTS
WhiteSatin
Profile Joined December 2012
United States308 Posts
March 05 2013 02:41 GMT
#87
I'm so glad they are not changing the meds, if they nerf it T lost pretty much the only cool ability they gained in HOTS.
Tuczniak
Profile Joined September 2010
1561 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-05 02:47:42
March 05 2013 02:46 GMT
#88
On March 05 2013 11:34 Pazuzu wrote:
they have the right attitude, and I trust that they will make the changes as they see fit. Protoss was never nerfed after the laser ball was absurdly powerful a year or two ago, since people had yet to realize the utility of the infestor. Just becuase there hasn't been a counter strategy developed immediately within two weeks does not mean that something is overpowered. Especially since this is the beta now its best that they're being prudent before making changes
You have to remember that in patch 1.3.0 fungal dps increased +100% (+160% vs armored). People suddenly didn't just realize it was good. That composition was broken before, it just took blizz time to realize that.
Meadowlark
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States349 Posts
March 05 2013 02:53 GMT
#89
Seems like a pretty reasonable statement. I'm not really a fan of insta-nerfs.
''Three bottles of Monster in a day; I'm pumped as fuck." -Stephano
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12702 Posts
March 05 2013 02:56 GMT
#90
I have said it several times already, problem with the medivac speed is not it is too fast, the problem is it is too fast coming too early in the game
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
suicideyear
Profile Joined December 2012
Ivory Coast3016 Posts
March 05 2013 02:56 GMT
#91
i don't think IEM is going to be on the most recent patch with changes to whateverwhatever.
)))____◎◎◎◎█████
Ry2D2
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States429 Posts
March 05 2013 03:00 GMT
#92
remove hellbat bio tag bc it makes no sense lorewise and seems unnecessary multiplayer wise. hellbats are enticing enough as is
Alryk
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States2718 Posts
March 05 2013 03:01 GMT
#93
On March 05 2013 09:24 baldgye wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2013 09:16 Lunareste wrote:
On March 05 2013 09:12 SoOJuuu wrote:
its not that speedvacs are OP,
the fact that it doesnt use energy does. It would be like stim without the damage....

no risk to not use it
once again blizzard doesnt understand. [insert idra past comment with the tire iron]


Why is this inherently bad?

Saying Medivacs shouldn't be able to use Afterburners without cost is like saying that Blinking your Stalkers should cost shields. Units having useful abilities isn't a bad thing for the game, especially when their uses will eventually lead to differences in player skill.


Clearly you don't understand the game, as those things are not even close to similar.


Clearly you don't understand the game, as those things are really quite similar.

Our statements definitely SEEM similar... at the very least, they both share a fantastic lack of evidence.

IMO: medivacs are strong, but so is P air. And zerg is.. not sure. I don't think people are using vipers enough. It's definitely too early to make any big changes, now that we're out of beta. I'm hoping to see what strats people come up with.
Team Liquid, IM, ViOlet!
MCXD
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Australia2738 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-05 03:05:36
March 05 2013 03:04 GMT
#94
I really don't think there is anything exciting about stupidly fast medivacs, as a spectator. Especially as a spectator myself; I haven't left bronze league in my life (so it's hardly a player's opinion). If that's seriously their only reason for keeping it exactly as it is now... ugh.
ke_ivan
Profile Joined February 2011
Singapore374 Posts
March 05 2013 03:06 GMT
#95
but but terran doesn't have viable air units yet trololol
c0sm0naut
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1229 Posts
March 05 2013 03:07 GMT
#96
On March 05 2013 12:01 Alryk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2013 09:24 baldgye wrote:
On March 05 2013 09:16 Lunareste wrote:
On March 05 2013 09:12 SoOJuuu wrote:
its not that speedvacs are OP,
the fact that it doesnt use energy does. It would be like stim without the damage....

no risk to not use it
once again blizzard doesnt understand. [insert idra past comment with the tire iron]


Why is this inherently bad?

Saying Medivacs shouldn't be able to use Afterburners without cost is like saying that Blinking your Stalkers should cost shields. Units having useful abilities isn't a bad thing for the game, especially when their uses will eventually lead to differences in player skill.


Clearly you don't understand the game, as those things are not even close to similar.


Clearly you don't understand the game, as those things are really quite similar.

Our statements definitely SEEM similar... at the very least, they both share a fantastic lack of evidence.

IMO: medivacs are strong, but so is P air. And zerg is.. not sure. I don't think people are using vipers enough. It's definitely too early to make any big changes, now that we're out of beta. I'm hoping to see what strats people come up with.


i have to agree with alryk on this one... you're trying to argue that blink (mobility increasing ability) with a cooldown is fundamentally different than ignite afterburners (mobility increasing ability) with a cooldown

you can argue, "well if you blink when your stalker isn't in danger, then you cant blink to get away"
we can argue, "well if you boost when your dropship isn't in danger, then you cant boost to get away"

it's the same exact thing,,,, how can you argue this?
Defacer
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada5052 Posts
March 05 2013 03:22 GMT
#97
I'm just a mere mortal, but when I watch pro zerg streams I never see them beat skytoss ... is it just a matter of being able to identify and punish the strategy early?
nomyx
Profile Joined June 2012
United States2205 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-05 03:26:27
March 05 2013 03:25 GMT
#98
On March 05 2013 12:06 ke_ivan wrote:
but but terran doesn't have viable air units yet trololol


Battle cruiser got some nice buffs in HotS

Yamato Cannon is now 100 energy, down from 125. So at max energy you can yamato twice per BC
Air to Ground attack has been buffed from 8 to 10. With an Attack Speed of .225 they deal 44.4 DPS with no upgrades

With +3 to air, they'll deal 13 damage with each attack, which gives them a DPS of 57.7 against ground units.

SuperYo1000
Profile Joined July 2008
United States880 Posts
March 05 2013 03:26 GMT
#99
On March 05 2013 12:22 Defacer wrote:
I'm just a mere mortal, but when I watch pro zerg streams I never see them beat skytoss ... is it just a matter of being able to identify and punish the strategy early?



pretty much for right now. Protoss air is extremely gas heavy. Once its identified zerg needs to find out how to be aggressive. Its a new feeling for zerg. Its pretty much opposite to what they are used to so its going to take some time for zerg to figure it out
bobsire
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada296 Posts
March 05 2013 03:28 GMT
#100
medivac boost is not OP. Blizz is right... learn to deal with it instead of complaining.
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 42 43 44 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PiGosaur Cup
00:00
#75
PiGStarcraft467
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft467
RuFF_SC2 219
Nina 151
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 6056
Horang2 2121
PianO 747
Noble 19
Icarus 7
Tasteless 1
Dota 2
monkeys_forever751
Counter-Strike
Coldzera 1529
m0e_tv408
Other Games
summit1g9450
WinterStarcraft344
C9.Mang0292
Maynarde105
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick852
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• practicex 48
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo944
• Rush528
Other Games
• Scarra918
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
4h 26m
Afreeca Starleague
5h 26m
BeSt vs Leta
Queen vs Jaedong
Kung Fu Cup
6h 26m
Replay Cast
19h 26m
The PondCast
1d 5h
OSC
1d 19h
RSL Revival
2 days
TriGGeR vs Cure
ByuN vs Rogue
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Maru vs MaxPax
BSL
3 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
BSL
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 20: Qualifier 1
WardiTV Winter 2026
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
CSL Elite League 2026
ASL Season 21
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 2
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W1
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.