|
On March 05 2013 12:25 nomyx wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 12:06 ke_ivan wrote:
but but terran doesn't have viable air units yet trololol Battle cruiser got some nice buffs in HotS Yamato Cannon is now 100 energy, down from 125. So at max energy you can yamato twice per BC Air to Ground attack has been buffed from 8 to 10. With an Attack Speed of .225 they deal 44.4 DPS with no upgradesWith +3 to air, they'll deal 13 damage with each attack, which gives them a DPS of 57.7 against ground units.
I don't think the attack buff ever came through:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=397551#4
I can't really check, though.
|
On March 05 2013 12:31 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 12:25 nomyx wrote:On March 05 2013 12:06 ke_ivan wrote:
but but terran doesn't have viable air units yet trololol Battle cruiser got some nice buffs in HotS Yamato Cannon is now 100 energy, down from 125. So at max energy you can yamato twice per BC Air to Ground attack has been buffed from 8 to 10. With an Attack Speed of .225 they deal 44.4 DPS with no upgradesWith +3 to air, they'll deal 13 damage with each attack, which gives them a DPS of 57.7 against ground units. I don't think the attack buff ever came through: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=397551#4I can't really check, though.
if it did go through you can bet your ass i'm gonna be doing that scrap station BC build that one WeRRa player did vs protoss long ago :D
|
On March 05 2013 12:31 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 12:25 nomyx wrote:On March 05 2013 12:06 ke_ivan wrote:
but but terran doesn't have viable air units yet trololol Battle cruiser got some nice buffs in HotS Yamato Cannon is now 100 energy, down from 125. So at max energy you can yamato twice per BC Air to Ground attack has been buffed from 8 to 10. With an Attack Speed of .225 they deal 44.4 DPS with no upgradesWith +3 to air, they'll deal 13 damage with each attack, which gives them a DPS of 57.7 against ground units. I don't think the attack buff ever came through: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=397551#4I can't really check, though.
Yeah It's definitely possible that they removed it. I know for a fact they removed the battlecruiser speed boost (same ability as the medivac but you had to use 50 energy to use it)
|
On March 05 2013 12:25 nomyx wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 12:06 ke_ivan wrote:
but but terran doesn't have viable air units yet trololol Battle cruiser got some nice buffs in HotS Yamato Cannon is now 100 energy, down from 125. So at max energy you can yamato twice per BC Air to Ground attack has been buffed from 8 to 10. With an Attack Speed of .225 they deal 44.4 DPS with no upgradesWith +3 to air, they'll deal 13 damage with each attack, which gives them a DPS of 57.7 against ground units.
Battlecruiser ground attack change was a mistake, they changed it back to 8 damage early on in the beta. I had no idea that yamato cannon energy cost was changed but according to Liquipedia you are right.
The biggest buff to the BC IMO was the raven seeker missile buffs. 75 energy spammable seeker missile is a million times better in air vs air battles, and it truly makes the BC/raven comp the ultimately terran lategame army. I think BCs will be a viable lategame addition in TvT and TvZ, but tempest + HT makes me doubt their usefulness in TvP. The shared armor upgrades with mech also help with air transitioning.
|
I like how Blizzard is still very patient with balance. Unlike Riot, who completely flash-nerfs things with patches every three weeks. This game is remarkably balanced, especially compared to how some of the newer people on the forums exaggerate the issue.
|
On March 05 2013 12:07 c0sm0naut wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 12:01 Alryk wrote:On March 05 2013 09:24 baldgye wrote:On March 05 2013 09:16 Lunareste wrote:On March 05 2013 09:12 SoOJuuu wrote:
its not that speedvacs are OP,
the fact that it doesnt use energy does. It would be like stim without the damage....
no risk to not use it
once again blizzard doesnt understand. [insert idra past comment with the tire iron] Why is this inherently bad? Saying Medivacs shouldn't be able to use Afterburners without cost is like saying that Blinking your Stalkers should cost shields. Units having useful abilities isn't a bad thing for the game, especially when their uses will eventually lead to differences in player skill. Clearly you don't understand the game, as those things are not even close to similar. Clearly you don't understand the game, as those things are really quite similar. Our statements definitely SEEM similar... at the very least, they both share a fantastic lack of evidence. IMO: medivacs are strong, but so is P air. And zerg is.. not sure. I don't think people are using vipers enough. It's definitely too early to make any big changes, now that we're out of beta. I'm hoping to see what strats people come up with. i have to agree with alryk on this one... you're trying to argue that blink (mobility increasing ability) with a cooldown is fundamentally different than ignite afterburners (mobility increasing ability) with a cooldown you can argue, "well if you blink when your stalker isn't in danger, then you cant blink to get away" we can argue, "well if you boost when your dropship isn't in danger, then you cant boost to get away" it's the same exact thing,,,, how can you argue this?
DUH. Medivacs can fly. 
/s
Edit: BC stuff I just wrote is irrelevant as I just read the posts above me 
|
On March 05 2013 12:34 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 12:25 nomyx wrote:On March 05 2013 12:06 ke_ivan wrote:
but but terran doesn't have viable air units yet trololol Battle cruiser got some nice buffs in HotS Yamato Cannon is now 100 energy, down from 125. So at max energy you can yamato twice per BC Air to Ground attack has been buffed from 8 to 10. With an Attack Speed of .225 they deal 44.4 DPS with no upgradesWith +3 to air, they'll deal 13 damage with each attack, which gives them a DPS of 57.7 against ground units. Battlecruiser ground attack change was a mistake, they changed it back to 8 damage early on in the beta. I had no idea that yamato cannon energy cost was changed but according to Liquipedia you are right. The biggest buff to the BC IMO was the raven seeker missile buffs. 75 energy spammable seeker missile is a million times better in air vs air battles, and it truly makes the BC/raven comp the ultimately terran lategame army. I think BCs will be a viable lategame addition in TvT and TvZ, but tempest + HT makes me doubt their usefulness in TvP. The shared armor upgrades with mech also help with air transitioning.
Yep, Raven is a really powerful unit now. I like it :D
Definitely deserved some of that "WoL infestor" love.
|
On March 05 2013 12:51 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
I like how Blizzard is still very patient with balance. Unlike Riot, who completely flash-nerfs things with patches every three weeks. This game is remarkably balanced, especially compared to how some of the newer people on the forums exaggerate the issue.
Blizzard has really came a long way from the WoL beta. Honestly I'm impressed with them now a days. I just look back to the reaper nerfs and how they completely made an SC2 unit onto the level of scout / queen in BW. Hardly ever used and the only time the reaper was used post nerf was for a weird TvT build.
|
On March 05 2013 09:33 forsooth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 09:26 SoOJuuu wrote:On March 05 2013 09:16 Lunareste wrote:On March 05 2013 09:12 SoOJuuu wrote:
its not that speedvacs are OP,
the fact that it doesnt use energy does. It would be like stim without the damage....
no risk to not use it
once again blizzard doesnt understand. [insert idra past comment with the tire iron] Why is this inherently bad? Saying Medivacs shouldn't be able to use Afterburners without cost is like saying that Blinking your Stalkers should cost shields. Units having useful abilities isn't a bad thing for the game, especially when their uses will eventually lead to differences in player skill. no using blink does have an effect, you have to remove one of your guys from battle for X second, you lose dps. There is a trade there. There is no trade for boosting medivacs. They just go. 0 trade off. Are we really pretending that the only thing blink is used for is pulling back a stalker mid-battle?
blinking a stalker back is an insane dps loss bro! it's at least 14 or even 15 damage
|
No rush 15 comment is a bit of a slap in the face. We will see how things play out soon enough though.
|
wonder why they would release this contentless report right before iem
|
On March 05 2013 13:18 Tsubbi wrote:
wonder why they would release this contentless report right before iem
It makes sense, the SC2 community is very pessimistic. Blizzard just wants to re-assure people that they are in fact still looking at the balance problems and will continue to work on the issues.
|
On March 05 2013 09:12 SoOJuuu wrote:
its not that speedvacs are OP,
the fact that it doesnt use energy does. It would be like stim without the damage....
no risk to not use it
once again blizzard doesnt understand. [insert idra past comment with the tire iron]
There is a solid precedence for it not costing energy. In SC2 spells/abilities generally cost either a resource (health/energy) or have a cool down but not both. So if speedboost costs energy, it shouldn't have a cooldown so which would u prefer? opportunity cost or energy cost?
|
On March 05 2013 13:06 TheRabidDeer wrote:
No rush 15 comment is a bit of a slap in the face. We will see how things play out soon enough though.
I thought the same thing, it seemed pretty tactless for an official response.
|
On March 05 2013 13:27 Moa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 13:06 TheRabidDeer wrote:
No rush 15 comment is a bit of a slap in the face. We will see how things play out soon enough though. I thought the same thing, it seemed pretty tactless for an official response.
It seemed on point to me and I am glad they are taking a more forceful tone the more insane balance claims. There were a lot of people complaining about skytoss, but it seemed like some fictional, gas based army that would never happen in a real game. Riot does the same thing when people complain about crazy things that happen in crazy, 1.5 hour games that rarely happen.
|
On March 05 2013 12:26 SuperYo1000 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 12:22 Defacer wrote:
I'm just a mere mortal, but when I watch pro zerg streams I never see them beat skytoss ... is it just a matter of being able to identify and punish the strategy early? pretty much for right now. Protoss air is extremely gas heavy. Once its identified zerg needs to find out how to be aggressive. Its a new feeling for zerg. Its pretty much opposite to what they are used to so its going to take some time for zerg to figure it out
I hope that they can figure it out. Unfortunately, we've still got building walls, ramps, and forcefields to deal with, and early Zerg hasn't really got many buffs. The "NR15" comment is pretty funny, but is that not a reflection of the lack of options zerg has?
Swarm host is the answer for pressure I guess? Shame that it's one of the most boring units in the game.
|
Would I prefer they don't make snap balance changes. Yes 100% agree.
Do I think the premises which they determine balance have been flawed from day 1. Yes I 100% do.
Let me put it this way...
Real balance logic would be: From minute 0 to minute 60 both players have a 100% equal opportunity to use superior play to win the game at all times. IE the only factor in a game that can sway strength in a players favor is the player themselves. While maybe not 100% this way BW was close enough that it allowed outstanding players to be in fact outstanding and entertaining as hell to watch to boot.
Blizzard balance logic: If every 10 minutes the player who can win the game changes, so long as the end result is they both have 30 minutes in which they can win, then the game is balanced. Oh that and during the 30 minutes they can win it has to at least be possible for the opponent to defend, but it's ok if it's harder to defend then to attack during those periods.
Blizzard would claim that sort of balance is 'interesting' I'd say that sort of balance is a restriction on creativity in games, and why every match up became extremely rigid in WoL.
TvP: Marine Marauder for T & dash of vikings later
TvZ: Hellions with banshee or bio into full mech or tank/marine (at least some variety there)
PvZ: All in or turtle to death ball.
PvT: All in or turtle to death ball.
ZvX: Turtle, defend (react to opponents builds), and poke until BL/Infestor
While I'm over simplifying a few examples any variation to the norms were typically a gimmick or extremely all in. I like the idea of not making snap judgments on balance, I just wish the balance goal from square 1 was a bit more aspiring.
|
On March 05 2013 09:16 neoghaleon55 wrote:
How boring. I've never seen such a long blog written over a non-change before.
Why not just be grateful they are communicating with us? No one is forcing you to read a long blog written over a non-change either.
|
I haven't even watched that much but it seemed blatantly obvious that protoss air is overpowered(holy shit protoss actually op for once) vs zerg. And it's going to get worse, not better. Pros will become better at perfecting their ability to build up this OP composition.
|
On March 05 2013 11:19 BlackPride wrote:
And the answer to a composition shouldn't simply be, don't let Protoss get there. That's retarded.
Why not?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
