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[Role] Support

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Lmui
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada6213 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-17 01:09:47
July 13 2012 06:43 GMT
#1
Hi guys, I'm a ~1600 player that plays everything and decided to try and start a topic for dedicated support discussion. I am not a dedicated support player, therefore, feel free to question or deviate from anything contained in here. This is intended to be a starting point. This is also a work in progress. The OP will continue to be updated over the course of the next few weeks until it reaches a point I'm satisfied with.

[image loading]

I have near 60% winrates with my top three supports, sona, soraka and janna.

What is a Support?

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In the current metagame, a support is a champion that goes bottom lane and helps protect an AD carry. The support generally does not take any lasthits and instead, relies on passive gold generation to get items. Support champions are champions that do not require large amounts of farm nor levels to be effective.


What does a Support do?

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Supports generally start the game by buying wards and a faerie charm. Their job is to ward around the bottom lane in order to keep safe from ganks and to help either defensive, offensively or both in the bottom lane. The degree to which you can do either depends on which support you happen to be playing. Later in the game, supports in conjunction with the jungler try to keep vision on map objectives and deny the enemy vision of the same. In a 2v2 situation bottom lane, the support is the playmaker in most lanes, either initiating with a stun/knockup and providing an opportunity for the AD carry to follow up on. The support is also the one responsible for getting the AD carry out of such messes via the same disables.


Which champions are Supports?

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The most common support champions that you will see are:

Alistar
Blitzcrank
Janna
Leona
Lulu
Nunu
Sona
Soraka
Taric

Other more unconventional supports that can be seen from time to time.

Lux
Karma
Morgana
Yorick
Ashe
Fiddlesticks
Nautilus
Zilean



Runes

+ Show Spoiler +


Quintessences:

Avarice - Gold as a support is difficult to come by and these help you get it
Swiftness - Used primarily on aggressive supports such as alistar in order to set up opportunities to get a kill

Marks:

Resilience - As a bottom laner, the primary form of incoming damage is physical and armor helps mitigate the damage
Magic Pen - Used on poke oriented supports such as sona. You are stronger offensively but weaker defensively

Seals:

Resilience - The most cost efficient slot to get armor on. Defensively speaking, the strongest rune you can get as a support.
Avarice - Additional gold per 10. If you use gp10 in this slot, you must have armor in the marks slot or else you will be too squishy

Glyphs:

Shielding - MR/level is very common on any champion that does not face magic damage early.
Warding - Flat MR is very good against champions that rely on magic damage in lane since it's stronger when the magic damage you take is strongest, in the early game. Champions such as corki, tristana and ezreal deal a hefty amount of magic damage in the early game.


Masteries:

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[image loading]

0/9/21 is the most commonly used set of masteries on a support champion. The masteries in the defensive tree are pretty standardized but the masteries within the utility can be varied depending on whether you want mana, movespeed, or a myriad of other combinations. The most contentious mastery point here is scout which grants 5% more vision range on wards. The other options you can stick the point into without changing much is improved recall, good hands or movespeed. Feel free to experiment.

Chexx has provided some images of common ward locations and the extra vision granted by scout.

On July 15 2012 12:34 Chexx wrote:
Ward Animation Drag: http://www.abload.de/img/dragyn6p0.gif

Ward Animation Baron: http://www.abload.de/img/barpj30f.gif

Ward Animation Random: http://www.abload.de/img/towerrywnk.gif



[image loading]

An alternative is the 1/15/14 mastery split on supports in order to get summoner's wrath in addition to being tankier than the other setups. It's very good on taric, leona and alistar in particular since having armor+MR shred means that your AD deals very close to true damage in the early game with autoattacks if you can all-in.

Other mastery setups are also viable, however, if you put fewer than 14 points into the utility tree, you begin to lose out on starting gold and passive gold gain, two things that get increasingly hard to make up as you get better at the game and your opponents make fewer mistakes.

A final mastery setup that will be touched on is 9/0/21. This is a more offensively oriented setup that relies on being able to 100-0 someone at level 2-3 or at level 6. Good combinations to do this with are alistar+tristana, leona+corki and taric+graves.

In general, when experimenting, do not put over 9 points into offense. It's a waste of points since you do not get the items to utilize those points effectively.


Summoner Spells

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Flash - Always get this. It's by far the most useful summoner spell, allowing you to initiate, escape and make plays. Even in lane, it's useful in extended trades because by flashing when at low health in a trade, you can bait the enemy AD out of position to secure a kill for your AD carry.

Exhaust - Currently the preferred spell to have on a support. If either side initiates, your first priority is to exhaust the enemy AD before they can blow their front loaded burst (buckshot, boomerang, phosbomb etc). Lowering their damage can save either yourself or your AD and allow your duo to trade back while the other duo is waiting on cooldowns

Clairvoyance - Not as useful as it once was. With the new jungle, many jungle routes opened up and casting clairvoyance is much more of a crapshoot. Good warding has largely replaced CV's in importance as to determination of the enemy jungler's location. It is however, one of the strongest lategame summoners for positioning around baron.

Promote - This is actually surprisingly good later on in the game. It's somewhat useless in laning but can be good if you HAVE to back but you're getting pushed in. After laning ends, this grows far stronger since if you promote a bottom lane creep, someone HAS to go to stop it from taking a tower. It can also stop large creepwaves by itself, meaning you can send a supercannoncreep from spawn to bottom lane and push a wave back without ever showing yourself bottomlane. It works best against champions not taking teleport and not named shen.

Ignite - Can be useful if your AD carry is not running it in order to secure kills but given that the support is generally the lowest level character in the game, it's not as good on a support as it is on top/mid/AD

Heal - Not particularly good compared to exhaust on a support since healing your AD is 1/2 as effective.



Items:



Opening items:

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Faerie charm + 4 wards+1pot
A safe opening with the maximum number of wards possible. This is the best option for passive lanes where neither side has a particularly high chance of killing the other without help from other lanes/jungle (example would be janna corki vs soraka graves)

Faerie charm + vision ward + 2 wards + pot
An alternative opening that allows you to deny one point of vision to the enemy team. The vision ward should be used to deny vision of tribush, the near lane bush or river. You want to deny vision along a gank path for your jungler

Faerie charm + 3 wards + 2 pots
Without the +40 gold from the mastery, this is a normal opening. The extra pot lends itself to trading in lane.

Regrowth pendant + ward or pot
This opening gets you the quickest possible philosopher's stone. You will have to use that one ward smartly or base the second you have enough for a philo + 2 wards.

boots + 1 ward 1 pot
Used only on aggressive supports, espcially supports that lead invades. Alistar, blitzcrank, leona and taric are the champions that use this the most. It is the second least safe opening but has the most kill potential due to being able to position for and follow up on opportunities to kill.

boots + 3 pots
The most dangerous (read: stupid) opening by far. You have to make something happen or base early or else. In any normal game, the jungler will make a point to go and kill your lane until such a time as you decide that buying wards would be a good idea.

Ruby Crystal + pot
Used if you know for sure that the enemy jungler isn't going to gank before level 4. You will base the moment you have enough for a HoG + 2 wards, which should be right around the 4.5-5 minute mark, the time around when the level 4 jungler is looking to gank. This is more danagerous in some aspects than the boots opening as you cannot run away quickly.


Other items

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Philosopher's stone: Gives mana and health regen in addition to gp10.
Heart of gold: Gives a large amount of health and makes you tankier in lane
Kage's Lucky Pick: Seen only by supports that get far ahead. Generally bought if buying a shurelya's at that point in the game will not benefit the team meaningfully
Boots of Speed: Essential item usually gotten immediately after getting a philosopher's stone. Allows you to chase or run away quicker.
Sight Ward: The single most important support item. Vision allows you to avoid any traps, take only favourable engagements and know where enemy champions are.
Vision Ward: Similar to a vision ward but can see invisible characters and more importantly, enemy wards. Used either for bush control, dragon control or for setting up ganks.

"big" support items - These items are possible end game goals for a support.
Shurelya's reverie - The active gives everyone around you a speedboost and is important for initiating an engagement or retreating.
Aegis of the Legion - Makes yourself tankier and grants nearby allies a good amount of armor and MR. If the top laner or jungler builds it, it's not quite as useful to buy early but is still very good on tanky supports such as alistar, leona and taric.
Locket of the Iron Solari - A good last item on a support, gives a small shield to everyone around you. The shield itself isn't very large, about the same as a level 1 soraka ulti but it's enough to keep everyone alive an extra second or so.
Soul Shroud - Gives a hefty amount of health for yourself and an aura that grants everyone near you 10% CDR and a minor bit of mana regen. CDR is good in every scenario but especially so if your carry is kogmaw since so much of his damage comes from having W up.
Zeke's Herald - This item gives any autoattacker on your team huge amounts of lifesteal in addition to extra attackspeed. It's best bought when three people benefit from autoattacks (AD carry+toplane+jungle). It is especially good when paired with champions such as olaf, irelia, nocturne etc. The lifesteal means every one of those is much tankier than they otherwise would be and the extra attack speed helps mitigate some of the loss from frozen hearts that are so common nowadays.
Oracles Elixir - Gives you the ability to see invisible units and wards. It's very useful when posturing around either baron or dragon. Without vision, it's difficult to determine when and if it's safe to go anywhere.

Tier 2 boots - These should be bought AFTER one big item has been completed. :
Mobility boots - Very good on supports that are passively helping their team just by being around or can initiate/catch people with the aid of these. alistar and soraka are good examples of supports that use mobility boots extremely well.
Ionian boots - CDR boots are good on any support. Shurelya's in addition to CDR boots puts most supports near the CDR cap of 40% (Usually between 35-39%). These allow you to cc more often, heal faster, etc and are generally a good pick on any support.
Ninja Tabi's. Less common but can be seen on alistar/taric/leona/blitzcrank from time to time. Their tendency to be in the middle of the fight also means they get focused a lot and anything that helps you live longer against focus is good.
Mercury treads: Same idea as above but it helps you with CC and magical instead of physical damage.



Playstyle:

+ Show Spoiler +
Playstyle changes depending on which support you play.

As much as I'd love to write about how to play each particular support, I feel linking their respective threads much more productive. Instead, I'll discuss general things for all supports.

Alistar
Blitzcrank
Janna
Nunu
Leona
Lulu
Sona
Soraka
Taric

In solo queue, it's rarely worth it to ward anything prior to 2 minutes. If you do intend to do so, good spots are the enemy wraiths and a defensive ward at the buff your jungler is not starting at.

At 2:00, watch mid lane and see where the enemy mid enters lane from. From that, you can determine which buff camp the enemy jungler started.

In lane, when you place your first ward depends first on your lane. Against an aggressive lane that pushes the lane towards you, be prepared to lose control of your near lane bush. Before you lose control of it, place a ward inside the bush. Once you've been pushed in, if your AD plays correctly, it will take three or more creep waves before the wave pushes out. If the bottom duo is forced to overextend for that long, they're vulnerable to ganks.

Placing a ward in the river depends on the enemy jungler that you're facing. Junglers such as maokai, amumu cannot gank before hitting level 4 without gimping their jungle. Hitting level 4 on those champions will take until 4 minutes into the game and they will finish at either wraiths or wolves. If you are on purple side, you aren't in danger of getting ganked until ~4:30 into the game and do not need to throw down a river ward until then. Similarly, if the jungler shows top, it'll take the jungler at least 90 seconds to make it from top to bottom if they don't skip any creep camps.

Avoid placing any wards if there's a 0% chance of seeing anything useful with that ward. If you know where the enemy jungler should be at any particular point in time, or if you've seen the enemy jungler, you have a good idea of how long it'd take for the jungler to get to your lane. Make use of that knowledge to be efficient with your wards.
GhandiEAGLE
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States20754 Posts
July 13 2012 06:47 GMT
#2
I would suggest adding Lux to common supports used, she is getting fairly popular lately. At least at my ELO
Oh, my achin' hands, from rakin' in grands, and breakin' in mic stands
Feartheguru
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada1334 Posts
July 13 2012 06:47 GMT
#3
Anyone else have the issue that their support skill is miles below their skill at other roles? I'm 1600 elo right now but my supporting skills are pretty much 1k elo level. No matter what I try to do as support I feed every game., both in lane and teamfights.
Don't sweat the petty stuff, don't pet the sweaty stuff.
schmutttt
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia3856 Posts
July 13 2012 07:04 GMT
#4
On July 13 2012 15:47 Feartheguru wrote:
Anyone else have the issue that their support skill is miles below their skill at other roles? I'm 1600 elo right now but my supporting skills are pretty much 1k elo level. No matter what I try to do as support I feed every game., both in lane and teamfights.


Support is the easiest role in the game, no offence but I always find it bizarre that people (Especially around 1600 and over) cant support well. My winrates are all really high (Except Taric) on support, maybe my point of view is wrong since I had to main support for about 40 games of premade 5s because no-one else would do it.

Seriously aside from Alistar and blitz I don't think support takes much real skill at all, and even for those champs you just have to hit pulls or combos and you are already a good support. People are just too selfish in solo q and refuse to support 99% of the time because they think they have to play a carry role to win, then they get last pick in a few games, are forced to support and are like WTF THIS IS HARD because they literally have less than 10 games as support ever.
Feartheguru
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada1334 Posts
July 13 2012 07:12 GMT
#5
Does having a good runepage for support make a big difference? I only have like 20 champs and 2 rune pages so I'm too cheap get one for support but i can definitely see the extra gold and armor from reds having an impact.
Don't sweat the petty stuff, don't pet the sweaty stuff.
Lmui
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada6213 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-13 07:55:47
July 13 2012 07:16 GMT
#6
On July 13 2012 15:47 Feartheguru wrote:
Anyone else have the issue that their support skill is miles below their skill at other roles? I'm 1600 elo right now but my supporting skills are pretty much 1k elo level. No matter what I try to do as support I feed every game., both in lane and teamfights.


Play more support. If you're at 1600 ELO, you have no excuse for playing support at anything under the 1500 level. There's is no reason that you should make it up there playing only one or two roles exclusively. If you have to force yourself to learn, play soraka, sit a little behind your ad and just heal them and give them mana. Just doing that puts you into 1400s. Easily. If you ward bottom lane and use exhaust at appropriate moments, you bump yourself up to 1600 with no issues. There's nothing inherently difficult about playing any support since most supports are point and click.

Edit::


On July 13 2012 15:47 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
I would suggest adding Lux to common supports used, she is getting fairly popular lately. At least at my ELO


I do not feel that Lux is a particularly good support. Her shield takes time to travel and is a skillshot, as are her CCs. It's the one support spell that is easy and possible for your teammates to dodge. In addition, snares and slows aren't as good as stuns. Sona fulfills much the same role with a stronger, lower cooldown and more reliable poke. Leona provides stronger CC and higher kill potential. Both are nearer to the ends of the spectrum than lux but overall I think their kits are better suited to the support role than lux's is.
Lmui
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada6213 Posts
July 13 2012 07:20 GMT
#7
On July 13 2012 16:12 Feartheguru wrote:
Does having a good runepage for support make a big difference? I only have like 20 champs and 2 rune pages so I'm too cheap get one for support but i can definitely see the extra gold and armor from reds having an impact.


It helps a huge amount as far as money goes but overall, it means you get a 9-10 minute philostone instead of an 8 minute philostone. It's a difference but not a gamechanger. You can either use your AP carry page which is good on any of the ranged supports (sona/janna/soraka/lulu) since their poke can do stupid amounts of damage early or you can use an AD page on supports like alistar, taric, etc and do much more damage when you initiate. You might be doing less overall for your team lategame since shurelya's/aegis make such a huge difference once the teamfight stage rolls around but your early game could potentially be stronger. I highly recommend that you get a total of at least 4 runepages if you want to be serious about playing ranked since a top bruiser+AD carry page, AP page, jungler page and a support page are the 4 basic pages that most other pages are built off of.
Deleted User 101379
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
4849 Posts
July 13 2012 07:30 GMT
#8
On July 13 2012 16:12 Feartheguru wrote:
Does having a good runepage for support make a big difference? I only have like 20 champs and 2 rune pages so I'm too cheap get one for support but i can definitely see the extra gold and armor from reds having an impact.


Extra gold is vital imho, otherwise you can't keep up with the needs for wards while also getting all the other stuff in an acceptable time.

Keeping 2 wards up all the time costs 8.3g/10 (150g/180s), your natural gold is 13g/10, so basically two thirds of your base income is used up for wards which delays your gp10 items for an eternity unless you ward less - which would make you a bad support. With runes it's 8.3 of 18.25, so less than half your income, making warding more affordable without cutting too much into your other budget.

I use a single armor marks, gp10 seals, mana regen glyphs and gp10 quints runepage for all supports.
Sponkz
Profile Joined May 2011
Denmark4564 Posts
July 13 2012 07:48 GMT
#9
On July 13 2012 16:04 schmutttt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 13 2012 15:47 Feartheguru wrote:
Anyone else have the issue that their support skill is miles below their skill at other roles? I'm 1600 elo right now but my supporting skills are pretty much 1k elo level. No matter what I try to do as support I feed every game., both in lane and teamfights.


Support is the easiest role in the game, no offence but I always find it bizarre that people (Especially around 1600 and over) cant support well. My winrates are all really high (Except Taric) on support, maybe my point of view is wrong since I had to main support for about 40 games of premade 5s because no-one else would do it.

Seriously aside from Alistar and blitz I don't think support takes much real skill at all, and even for those champs you just have to hit pulls or combos and you are already a good support. People are just too selfish in solo q and refuse to support 99% of the time because they think they have to play a carry role to win, then they get last pick in a few games, are forced to support and are like WTF THIS IS HARD because they literally have less than 10 games as support ever.



You're just strictly talking about the laning phase, and even there, you can get fucked by a support if he/she starts denying you map control around tri-brush/dragon area despite being able to do good with certain champions. I feel that most people don't wanna play support, because they're used to the "i buy items, i kill" kinda mindset and that just isn't happening as a support because you'll be playing champions in the sub-optimal manner with gp10, ward/oracle pressure and aura based items.


To OP:

I don't understand why you would get the mastery "Scout". It's 5% extra vision, and someone posted a before and after picture here on TL some time ago, and you can't really see any difference at all. Also i think you should add up the 1/15/14 mastery page. It has become extremely popular lately on bruiser supports.

http://thefwcentral.com/lol/#&trees=1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-3-2-4-0-2-1-0-0-0-3-0-0-0-0-1-0-3-1-0-3-0-4-0-0-2-0-0-0-0-0
hi
MCMilo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States365 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-13 08:02:11
July 13 2012 07:56 GMT
#10
I'll try to add in a lot of missing stuff...

Masteries:
21-9-0 (Leona, Taric, Blitzcrank for example), 1-21-8 (Everybody). Rarely I actually go a 9-0-21 set up with 10% cdr (SoS is also nice~) when you are the aggressor with passive spells (Soraka + Ezreal / Graves)
And get the Sage mastery please...

Runes: I think 15 AD is very nice on supports (with 21-9-0) that naturally deal damage with auto attacks together with your carry. Blitzcrank's powerfist in combination with your overdrive (a slow would also be good) can chase the enemy while dishing out the damages. Leona has an auto-reset with her Q so that would basically mean you deal 45 extra damage (of course more with the 21 offense set up) along with your AD carry burst damage.

Items: Zeke's Herald should be added in there. Will of the Ancients is super good at times. Boots is usually a choice among Merc Treads, Boots5, CDR Boots, or Tabi.

Openings: Faerie charm is of course a safer item start because of Philo stone. But the actual gain from that item is 100 mana every 3 minutes (mana potion every 3 minutes). I think with super aggressive laning set ups faerie charm should be disregarded for an all-consumable starting build. I'll only list the 475 startings (515 u can do the math...)

1pink 2 green 5 potions: Particularly against a lane that can fight back and with one less ward you can only stay for 6-7 minutes maximum. Need to make use of your consumables in a short time so look for fights and kills while making use of only 3 wards.

1pink 3 green 3 potions: a more bitchy set up to stay longer and you are against a lane that can't really fight back. Because the goal is to stay longer and pressure the enemy harder be more conservative with the pink so you can effectively use it for almost the full duration. This is good if you plan to stick around in the enemy's tower for a good 6 minutes because the enemy can't fight back (and you should harass them to make the jungler hesitant to gank for a 300hp ad carry).
Lmui
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada6213 Posts
July 13 2012 08:14 GMT
#11
On July 13 2012 16:48 Sponkz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 13 2012 16:04 schmutttt wrote:
On July 13 2012 15:47 Feartheguru wrote:
Anyone else have the issue that their support skill is miles below their skill at other roles? I'm 1600 elo right now but my supporting skills are pretty much 1k elo level. No matter what I try to do as support I feed every game., both in lane and teamfights.


Support is the easiest role in the game, no offence but I always find it bizarre that people (Especially around 1600 and over) cant support well. My winrates are all really high (Except Taric) on support, maybe my point of view is wrong since I had to main support for about 40 games of premade 5s because no-one else would do it.

Seriously aside from Alistar and blitz I don't think support takes much real skill at all, and even for those champs you just have to hit pulls or combos and you are already a good support. People are just too selfish in solo q and refuse to support 99% of the time because they think they have to play a carry role to win, then they get last pick in a few games, are forced to support and are like WTF THIS IS HARD because they literally have less than 10 games as support ever.



You're just strictly talking about the laning phase, and even there, you can get fucked by a support if he/she starts denying you map control around tri-brush/dragon area despite being able to do good with certain champions. I feel that most people don't wanna play support, because they're used to the "i buy items, i kill" kinda mindset and that just isn't happening as a support because you'll be playing champions in the sub-optimal manner with gp10, ward/oracle pressure and aura based items.


To OP:

I don't understand why you would get the mastery "Scout". It's 5% extra vision, and someone posted a before and after picture here on TL some time ago, and you can't really see any difference at all. Also i think you should add up the 1/15/14 mastery page. It has become extremely popular lately on bruiser supports.

http://thefwcentral.com/lol/#&trees=1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-3-2-4-0-2-1-0-0-0-3-0-0-0-0-1-0-3-1-0-3-0-4-0-0-2-0-0-0-0-0


On most of my characters, I either get 4 points into MS or none at all. Half a percentage point moves you nowhere faster. It's worth 1.5ms. Scout isn't much but I feel it's more useful than the other available place to put that point.

I'll add the 1/15/14 though, it gives every major support mastery in utility besides the 21st point, gets the 10 resist shred and is slightly tankier to boot, thanks for the insight.
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-13 08:40:41
July 13 2012 08:37 GMT
#12
On July 13 2012 17:14 Lmui wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 13 2012 16:48 Sponkz wrote:
On July 13 2012 16:04 schmutttt wrote:
On July 13 2012 15:47 Feartheguru wrote:
Anyone else have the issue that their support skill is miles below their skill at other roles? I'm 1600 elo right now but my supporting skills are pretty much 1k elo level. No matter what I try to do as support I feed every game., both in lane and teamfights.


Support is the easiest role in the game, no offence but I always find it bizarre that people (Especially around 1600 and over) cant support well. My winrates are all really high (Except Taric) on support, maybe my point of view is wrong since I had to main support for about 40 games of premade 5s because no-one else would do it.

Seriously aside from Alistar and blitz I don't think support takes much real skill at all, and even for those champs you just have to hit pulls or combos and you are already a good support. People are just too selfish in solo q and refuse to support 99% of the time because they think they have to play a carry role to win, then they get last pick in a few games, are forced to support and are like WTF THIS IS HARD because they literally have less than 10 games as support ever.



You're just strictly talking about the laning phase, and even there, you can get fucked by a support if he/she starts denying you map control around tri-brush/dragon area despite being able to do good with certain champions. I feel that most people don't wanna play support, because they're used to the "i buy items, i kill" kinda mindset and that just isn't happening as a support because you'll be playing champions in the sub-optimal manner with gp10, ward/oracle pressure and aura based items.


To OP:

I don't understand why you would get the mastery "Scout". It's 5% extra vision, and someone posted a before and after picture here on TL some time ago, and you can't really see any difference at all. Also i think you should add up the 1/15/14 mastery page. It has become extremely popular lately on bruiser supports.

http://thefwcentral.com/lol/#&trees=1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-3-2-4-0-2-1-0-0-0-3-0-0-0-0-1-0-3-1-0-3-0-4-0-0-2-0-0-0-0-0


On most of my characters, I either get 4 points into MS or none at all. Half a percentage point moves you nowhere faster. It's worth 1.5ms. Scout isn't much but I feel it's more useful than the other available place to put that point.

I'll add the 1/15/14 though, it gives every major support mastery in utility besides the 21st point, gets the 10 resist shred and is slightly tankier to boot, thanks for the insight.

Don't get scout. Get reduced time dead or more mana. Scout is LITERALLY useless.

I'm not going to dig up the picture right now, but a while back someone took screenshots of ward vision with scout and ward vision without scout. There is at most like 5 pixels of difference in vision between the two.

To be more specific. Wards have a sight range of 1100. Scout increases vision by 5%. That's an extra 55 range. For reference, melee champs have a range of 125. You increase your sight range by less than what is considered melee range. Scout is useless.
Sponkz
Profile Joined May 2011
Denmark4564 Posts
July 13 2012 08:52 GMT
#13
On July 13 2012 17:14 Lmui wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 13 2012 16:48 Sponkz wrote:
On July 13 2012 16:04 schmutttt wrote:
On July 13 2012 15:47 Feartheguru wrote:
Anyone else have the issue that their support skill is miles below their skill at other roles? I'm 1600 elo right now but my supporting skills are pretty much 1k elo level. No matter what I try to do as support I feed every game., both in lane and teamfights.


Support is the easiest role in the game, no offence but I always find it bizarre that people (Especially around 1600 and over) cant support well. My winrates are all really high (Except Taric) on support, maybe my point of view is wrong since I had to main support for about 40 games of premade 5s because no-one else would do it.

Seriously aside from Alistar and blitz I don't think support takes much real skill at all, and even for those champs you just have to hit pulls or combos and you are already a good support. People are just too selfish in solo q and refuse to support 99% of the time because they think they have to play a carry role to win, then they get last pick in a few games, are forced to support and are like WTF THIS IS HARD because they literally have less than 10 games as support ever.



You're just strictly talking about the laning phase, and even there, you can get fucked by a support if he/she starts denying you map control around tri-brush/dragon area despite being able to do good with certain champions. I feel that most people don't wanna play support, because they're used to the "i buy items, i kill" kinda mindset and that just isn't happening as a support because you'll be playing champions in the sub-optimal manner with gp10, ward/oracle pressure and aura based items.


To OP:

I don't understand why you would get the mastery "Scout". It's 5% extra vision, and someone posted a before and after picture here on TL some time ago, and you can't really see any difference at all. Also i think you should add up the 1/15/14 mastery page. It has become extremely popular lately on bruiser supports.

http://thefwcentral.com/lol/#&trees=1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-3-2-4-0-2-1-0-0-0-3-0-0-0-0-1-0-3-1-0-3-0-4-0-0-2-0-0-0-0-0


On most of my characters, I either get 4 points into MS or none at all. Half a percentage point moves you nowhere faster. It's worth 1.5ms. Scout isn't much but I feel it's more useful than the other available place to put that point.

I'll add the 1/15/14 though, it gives every major support mastery in utility besides the 21st point, gets the 10 resist shred and is slightly tankier to boot, thanks for the insight.


Try the improved recall. You'd be amazed at how many times that saves your life ^^
hi
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
July 13 2012 08:55 GMT
#14
I'd like to add some stuff in terms of opening items.

Fcharm + 4 wards
situation: When you know this is going to be a prolonged farm lane, with absolutely no kill potential from both sides, that means it'll be a while before you get a chance to go back.

Fcharm + vision + 2regular wards + pot.
situation: where denying vision for strong lvl 2, or lvl 4 ganks for your jungler. I like this opening when I have a jungle lee sin, that is going to give a good lvl 2 or lvl 3 gank.
-Also good as offensive support at lvl 2, it can deny bush vision in lane, thus making your presence much more deadly.

Boots + ward + pot
-I don't like running this. This is as close to balls to the walls, for lvl 2-lvl3 kill advantage. So for example, if you're running a taric+corki lane, or leona/graves, or some combo that is almost unbeatable due to sheer strength advantage due to lvl 2, this is a good opening for that. So if you see a combo of like ashe+sona lane, and you're running taric+corki, or taric+urgot, or leona+graves, leona+etc etc, Boots+ ward+pot isn't a bad opening. Just make sure when you do your actions you don't gank'd mid action.

regrowth+ pot
-not a bad start, if lane is a farm lane, with possible weak poke from enemy. So if the enemy lane is sona+ashe, you could probably get away with starting regrowth + pot, while playing passive.
liftlift > tsm
Lmui
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada6213 Posts
July 13 2012 08:56 GMT
#15
On July 13 2012 16:56 Milestone wrote:
I'll try to add in a lot of missing stuff...

Masteries:
21-9-0 (Leona, Taric, Blitzcrank for example), 1-21-8 (Everybody). Rarely I actually go a 9-0-21 set up with 10% cdr (SoS is also nice~) when you are the aggressor with passive spells (Soraka + Ezreal / Graves)
And get the Sage mastery please...

Runes: I think 15 AD is very nice on supports (with 21-9-0) that naturally deal damage with auto attacks together with your carry. Blitzcrank's powerfist in combination with your overdrive (a slow would also be good) can chase the enemy while dishing out the damages. Leona has an auto-reset with her Q so that would basically mean you deal 45 extra damage (of course more with the 21 offense set up) along with your AD carry burst damage.

Items: Zeke's Herald should be added in there. Will of the Ancients is super good at times. Boots is usually a choice among Merc Treads, Boots5, CDR Boots, or Tabi.

Openings: Faerie charm is of course a safer item start because of Philo stone. But the actual gain from that item is 100 mana every 3 minutes (mana potion every 3 minutes). I think with super aggressive laning set ups faerie charm should be disregarded for an all-consumable starting build. I'll only list the 475 startings (515 u can do the math...)

1pink 2 green 5 potions: Particularly against a lane that can fight back and with one less ward you can only stay for 6-7 minutes maximum. Need to make use of your consumables in a short time so look for fights and kills while making use of only 3 wards.

1pink 3 green 3 potions: a more bitchy set up to stay longer and you are against a lane that can't really fight back. Because the goal is to stay longer and pressure the enemy harder be more conservative with the pink so you can effectively use it for almost the full duration. This is good if you plan to stick around in the enemy's tower for a good 6 minutes because the enemy can't fight back (and you should harass them to make the jungler hesitant to gank for a 300hp ad carry).


21/0/9 isn't viable on a support. No support gets enough money to build enough damage that getting more than 9 points in offense would benefit them in a meaningful way later in the game. I forgot zeke's herald and I'll add that.
Will of the ancients isn't particularly good on a support since the price increase. Revolver doesn't help any support but sona and lux and 2300 for an item that benefits only your AP carry(s) is a waste compared to getting a aegis or even zekes. In team compositions with two AP carries, they generally involve having kennen or vladimir or rumble, all of which build WotA. 9 points is the maximum I'd recommend putting in offense

Losing out on the passive gold gain in the utility tree hurts a lot with any mastery setup that doesn't involve having the gold gain. If you cannot capitalize on the advantage that having more offensive masteries gives you, you're gimping yourself later in the game.

If you're planning on playing aggressively early, boots+3 is the most offensive a support should ever go

Openings where you get more than two potions are generally detrimental to your play. There is no normal lane that puts out enough harass in a normal game that you need to extra pots to stay in lane. Generally, when you want to seriously go for a kill, you're going to blow all your offensive summoners. namely exhaust and your AD carry's ignite. If that fails, you're going to have to wait four minutes before you can try again. If it succeeds, you get to push your lane and base. Either way, the potions aren't going to see serious use. The one or two potions that a support generally buys is for incidental damage taken from one or two autoattacks while they're either poking or trying to maintain bush control.
Lmui
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada6213 Posts
July 13 2012 08:57 GMT
#16
On July 13 2012 17:55 wei2coolman wrote:
I'd like to add some stuff in terms of opening items.

Fcharm + 4 wards
situation: When you know this is going to be a prolonged farm lane, with absolutely no kill potential from both sides, that means it'll be a while before you get a chance to go back.

Fcharm + vision + 2regular wards + pot.
situation: where denying vision for strong lvl 2, or lvl 4 ganks for your jungler. I like this opening when I have a jungle lee sin, that is going to give a good lvl 2 or lvl 3 gank.
-Also good as offensive support at lvl 2, it can deny bush vision in lane, thus making your presence much more deadly.

Boots + ward + pot
-I don't like running this. This is as close to balls to the walls, for lvl 2-lvl3 kill advantage. So for example, if you're running a taric+corki lane, or leona/graves, or some combo that is almost unbeatable due to sheer strength advantage due to lvl 2, this is a good opening for that. So if you see a combo of like ashe+sona lane, and you're running taric+corki, or taric+urgot, or leona+graves, leona+etc etc, Boots+ ward+pot isn't a bad opening. Just make sure when you do your actions you don't gank'd mid action.

regrowth+ pot
-not a bad start, if lane is a farm lane, with possible weak poke from enemy. So if the enemy lane is sona+ashe, you could probably get away with starting regrowth + pot, while playing passive.


Added regrowth + pot. I might want to reposition where I put the opening items section since I stuck it under playstyle >.>
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
July 13 2012 09:01 GMT
#17
As far as runes/masteries are concerned. It really depends on how you want to play out the lane.

I duo queue with my friend as support, pretty often. We run ridiculous lvl 2-3 kill lanes.
For example Taric/Graves as my lane.
As taric, I'll run mpen reds, armor yellows, armor blues (or mr blues, depending on enemies), and gp10 quints.
Masteries will be 9/0/21. Running exhaust+flash.

Essentially lvl 2-3 will be balls to the walls engage.

Or if it's a more defensive lane, just due to strong early game jungle presence or what not.
run 0/9/21, with armor reds, gp10 gold, armor blue, gp10 quints.


Some supports people should try out, Kennen, Anivia, Lee Sin, Morgana.
liftlift > tsm
Lmui
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada6213 Posts
July 13 2012 09:05 GMT
#18
On July 13 2012 17:37 Ryuu314 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 13 2012 17:14 Lmui wrote:
On July 13 2012 16:48 Sponkz wrote:
On July 13 2012 16:04 schmutttt wrote:
On July 13 2012 15:47 Feartheguru wrote:
Anyone else have the issue that their support skill is miles below their skill at other roles? I'm 1600 elo right now but my supporting skills are pretty much 1k elo level. No matter what I try to do as support I feed every game., both in lane and teamfights.


Support is the easiest role in the game, no offence but I always find it bizarre that people (Especially around 1600 and over) cant support well. My winrates are all really high (Except Taric) on support, maybe my point of view is wrong since I had to main support for about 40 games of premade 5s because no-one else would do it.

Seriously aside from Alistar and blitz I don't think support takes much real skill at all, and even for those champs you just have to hit pulls or combos and you are already a good support. People are just too selfish in solo q and refuse to support 99% of the time because they think they have to play a carry role to win, then they get last pick in a few games, are forced to support and are like WTF THIS IS HARD because they literally have less than 10 games as support ever.



You're just strictly talking about the laning phase, and even there, you can get fucked by a support if he/she starts denying you map control around tri-brush/dragon area despite being able to do good with certain champions. I feel that most people don't wanna play support, because they're used to the "i buy items, i kill" kinda mindset and that just isn't happening as a support because you'll be playing champions in the sub-optimal manner with gp10, ward/oracle pressure and aura based items.


To OP:

I don't understand why you would get the mastery "Scout". It's 5% extra vision, and someone posted a before and after picture here on TL some time ago, and you can't really see any difference at all. Also i think you should add up the 1/15/14 mastery page. It has become extremely popular lately on bruiser supports.

http://thefwcentral.com/lol/#&trees=1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-3-2-4-0-2-1-0-0-0-3-0-0-0-0-1-0-3-1-0-3-0-4-0-0-2-0-0-0-0-0


On most of my characters, I either get 4 points into MS or none at all. Half a percentage point moves you nowhere faster. It's worth 1.5ms. Scout isn't much but I feel it's more useful than the other available place to put that point.

I'll add the 1/15/14 though, it gives every major support mastery in utility besides the 21st point, gets the 10 resist shred and is slightly tankier to boot, thanks for the insight.

Don't get scout. Get reduced time dead or more mana. Scout is LITERALLY useless.

I'm not going to dig up the picture right now, but a while back someone took screenshots of ward vision with scout and ward vision without scout. There is at most like 5 pixels of difference in vision between the two.

To be more specific. Wards have a sight range of 1100. Scout increases vision by 5%. That's an extra 55 range. For reference, melee champs have a range of 125. You increase your sight range by less than what is considered melee range. Scout is useless.


I added a note to it. I'm not going to the effort of changing the picture associated with it though.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-13 09:14:54
July 13 2012 09:08 GMT
#19
Just some thoughts on vision wards. I find them being used on bot lane far too often in the current meta.

Unless your lane is in dire needs for a gank, which it shouldn't be, vision wards are pretty useless. Otherwise you're denying vision, for actions that won't happen. The main goal for the botlane (which should essentially be a farm island), is just to get farm for your AD carry. Adding a vision ward doesn't add any ability for your AD carry to farm, that a regular ward wouldn't.

I'm pretty conservative on vision ward usage, the only thing that should be pink'd during laning phase is dragon, and possibly blue buff., or if you're begging for a gank, then pink to deny vision. Or if you're running leona/blitz/taric, where denying bush vision is key to a strong burst offensive gank combo.


Also some thoughts on playstyle on botlane. I'm actually a huge fucking fan of pushing the shit of your lane, and just ward correctly and excessively. (unless enemy jungler is something like rammus/hecarim).
liftlift > tsm
Lmui
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada6213 Posts
July 13 2012 09:26 GMT
#20
On July 13 2012 18:08 wei2coolman wrote:
Just some thoughts on vision wards. I find them being used on bot lane far too often in the current meta.

Unless your lane is in dire needs for a gank, which it shouldn't be, vision wards are pretty useless. Otherwise you're denying vision, for actions that won't happen. The main goal for the botlane (which should essentially be a farm island), is just to get farm for your AD carry. Adding a vision ward doesn't add any ability for your AD carry to farm, that a regular ward wouldn't.

I'm pretty conservative on vision ward usage, the only thing that should be pink'd during laning phase is dragon, and possibly blue buff., or if you're begging for a gank, then pink to deny vision.


Also some thoughts on playstyle on botlane. I'm actually a huge fucking fan of pushing the shit of your lane, and just ward correctly and excessively. (unless enemy jungler is something like rammus/hecarim).


Playing aggressive supports such as leona/blitzcrank/alistar paired with similarly bursty ADs such as graves/trist/corki, you absolutely want to open with a vision ward + 2 greens. If you've ever laned against a good coordinated combo, they can 100-0 you through summoner heal before you have a chance to flash. They can take over your near lane bush (their far), pink it and zone you from creeps for 3 minutes or kill you and zone you for longer than that. If you have no vision of the champion, it's many times harder to react to a zenith blade/blitz hook or alistar hittting level 2 and seemingly randomly flash+exhaust+pulving you before headbutting you away from tower and you should abuse that.

It's also much better to have a vision ward on you if your jungler is maokai, nautilus or a similar jungler with heavy CC that can guarantee a kill if they can get onto someone since you can guarantee them a way in.

As far as pushing as aggressively as possible, that's actually the optimal way to play botlane since you are essentially immune to lane ganks, the other team has a difficult time trying to last hit and deal with the harass you can put out onto them. It's much easier to do on purple side than on blue since you don't have to worry about tribush. On blue, if you push that far and you see the jungler at tri, he will reach you when you're just past midlane and you will die if the jungler has serious CC. On purple side pushing hard, if you have a river ward, you're safe until you're almost midway along their lane bush. It's a pretty big difference in the safezone you have to stay safe while pushing in.
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