EPTLocket is also core against an AOE team and if you are Soraka.
[Role] Support - Page 4
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
Locket is also core against an AOE team and if you are Soraka. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
On July 20 2012 04:34 wei2coolman wrote: You're probably better off going for the early aegis, or at least buying the parts to aegis (but less supports are getting this, since more junglers/top are getting this item). The main problem with getting Shurelya's that early, is that a) you lose your gp10 on philo, b) the unique active is fairly insignificant in small skirmishes, and is much more essential mid/late game, than it is early game. As far going kindlegem for health, instead of hog, is fine, but if anything don't convert it to shurelya's so early. You're probably better off buying a zeke's with first kindlegem. As far as locket of iron solari goes, i personally really love the item, i think it's pretty unique, and pretty awesome, maybe if they could have the shield scale w/ something other than just lvel, it would maybe make it more accessible. I'll still be running philo+hog, just because aegis is usually built by jungle/top most of the time, and early shurelya's isn't that amazing, so hog is still an okay money dump if you plan on getting locket. As far as kage's goes, if you get early kills/assists in your botlane, you might as well pick up kages, it pays itself off in like 10minutes(if you sell it ), so if you get it within the first 10-12minutes of the game it's almost always a good idea to get it. You should consider skipping HoG entirely. Paying 350 gold for 25 health and gp10 is a bad trade-off for the majority of the game. Just get a kindlegem and get 10% cdr for the price of the gp10. It's a WAY better trade imo. | ||
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
On July 26 2012 19:25 Sponkz wrote: You should consider skipping HoG entirely. Paying 350 gold for 25 health and gp10 is a bad trade-off for the majority of the game. Just get a kindlegem and get 10% cdr for the price of the gp10. It's a WAY better trade imo. still feel so poor without hog, esp on support. getting 1gp5 then a kindlegem when you aren't gonna need shurelias real early anyway is dumb imo considering before you were paying 350 gold for 75 health and gp10, it wasn't exactly the most cost efficient buy in the first place(and imo it hasn't been since they removed cloth from the recipe) | ||
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Lmui
Canada6221 Posts
As far as kindlegem vs HoG, I feel that going HoG is still pretty mandatory on a support. I treat it as 825 gold for 200 HP + effect, similar to how I treat a kindlegem as 850 gold for 200HP + effect. The vast majority of the health you gain from both is from the ruby crystal. You're paying the balance for an additional bonus. It's also pretty rare that you wind up upgrading your HoG before it pays for the 350 gold cost (~12 minutes of sitting on a HoG). Yes it's not as good as before but it's still a very core item for a support to have. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
On July 26 2012 19:26 arb wrote: still feel so poor without hog, esp on support. getting 1gp5 then a kindlegem when you aren't gonna need shurelias real early anyway is dumb imo considering before you were paying 350 gold for 75 health and gp10, it wasn't exactly the most cost efficient buy in the first place(and imo it hasn't been since they removed cloth from the recipe) You could do a philo -> kindlegem -> zekes and then get the reverie later on in the game, but i dunno how much junglers tends to get reverie nowadays. I feel like aegis is a big waste of gold, since you shouldn't be the one getting it, randuins costs too much to make it a viable purchase for support (like, when are you ever gonna recall with 2250+ g?). Though i like the small components on aegis, it just feels like it synergizes so well with many wriggles junglers. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
On July 26 2012 20:36 zulu_nation8 wrote: locket is terrible Why and which other item would you suggest? | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
On July 26 2012 20:41 Morfildur wrote: Why and which other item would you suggest? For 1400 gold (not factoring the gold earned from HoG) it offers something that is close to completely useless. I've bought it myself a few times, and in 99% of all cases i was thinking "wtf, why didn't i buy zekes/aegis instead?". I like the idea of the item, but having it scale with levels (you shouldn't be counting on hitting more than 16 in a single game, and that's 40+ min games we're talking about) and not even then it's worth it. That 1% time when it's good, is when you have 3-4 shields on your team+soraka. | ||
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Lmui
Canada6221 Posts
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Eppa!
Sweden4641 Posts
Pick vs Leona, Janna, Nunu, Alistar. Bad poke, low sustain. You want a Shurelias jungler yours will be late. 0/21/9 masteries. 3 ward opening-> HoG (generally) -> Philo -> Pick (you need this) -> Ionian boots -> Zonyas. Generally get oracle around level 9 if you can and your flash is up. He is very defensive laner until fear hits a strong 2+ seconds. You will have no sustain because drain is useless for you mid game. You want a burst harass champ that peaks around level 7-9 in damage with decent->strong early game like Corki or Ashe. He is very fun to play and is incredible vs certain comps. Also don't be afraid to roam a little once you hit 7-9 | ||
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
On July 27 2012 08:43 Eppa! wrote: Ok, my short guide to Fiddlestix support. R>Q>E>>>W skiling order. Pick vs Leona, Janna, Nunu, Alistar. Bad poke, low sustain. You want a Shurelias jungler yours will be late. 0/21/9 masteries. 3 ward opening-> HoG (generally) -> Philo -> Pick (you need this) -> Ionian boots -> Zonyas. Generally get oracle around level 9 if you can and your flash is up. He is very defensive laner until fear hits a strong 2+ seconds. You will have no sustain because drain is useless for you mid game. You want a burst harass champ that peaks around level 7-9 in damage with decent->strong early game like Corki or Ashe. He is very fun to play and is incredible vs certain comps. Also don't be afraid to roam a little once you hit 7-9 Buying wards and oracles and all realistically, i dont see you getting Zhonyas for a long time unless youre doing really fuckign amazing. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On July 26 2012 21:34 Sponkz wrote: For 1400 gold (not factoring the gold earned from HoG) it offers something that is close to completely useless. I've bought it myself a few times, and in 99% of all cases i was thinking "wtf, why didn't i buy zekes/aegis instead?". I like the idea of the item, but having it scale with levels (you shouldn't be counting on hitting more than 16 in a single game, and that's 40+ min games we're talking about) and not even then it's worth it. That 1% time when it's good, is when you have 3-4 shields on your team+soraka. When your team got hit by, say, Vladimir's R, and you activate your Locket, you negative 230 damage for your team. This is basically half of Soraka's ultimate on a 60 seconds cooldown in a teamfight. If that's not good, I don't know what is. | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
I don't really see any reason to buy it anymore, what's the point? | ||
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Lmui
Canada6221 Posts
On July 27 2012 10:16 UniversalSnip wrote: I'm surprised people are taking buying hog seriously still with all the hate on it in GD. I don't really see any reason to buy it anymore, what's the point? You're paying 825 gold total for 200 hp and 5gp10. Before, you were paying 825 gold for 250 hp and 5gp10. You're losing out on 50 hp overall but there's literally nothing better you can get during the timespan which you'd buy a HoG. 175 hp you're getting regardless with the ruby crystal, it's just a question of whether you get +25 or +75 beyond that. AFAIK, most of the hate on HoG was regarding getting it on top laners/junglers. It's still a core item on supports. | ||
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
On July 27 2012 10:22 Lmui wrote: You're paying 825 gold total for 200 hp and 5gp10. Before, you were paying 825 gold for 250 hp and 5gp10. You're losing out on 50 hp overall but there's literally nothing better you can get during the timespan which you'd buy a HoG. 175 hp you're getting regardless with the ruby crystal, it's just a question of whether you get +25 or +75 beyond that. AFAIK, most of the hate on HoG was regarding getting it on top laners/junglers. It's still a core item on supports. it still isnt bad on junglers either, top laners i think it was always a buy gp5 if you wanna lose your lane kinda thing. considering unless things have changed every jungle i see is still buying it pretty much someone finally saying what ive been saying, you werent paying for that much health in the first place, and a 50 health difference isnt that big of a deal | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
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czylu
477 Posts
On July 27 2012 09:42 Sufficiency wrote: When your team got hit by, say, Vladimir's R, and you activate your Locket, you negative 230 damage for your team. This is basically half of Soraka's ultimate on a 60 seconds cooldown in a teamfight. If that's not good, I don't know what is. That's entirely way too situational to see in a real game and the comparison to soraka's is completely off base. First soraka's ultimate is global, and is not limited to nearby champs. Second it is a heal, not a temporary shield, so the Hp gains are permanently used, not temporary. Lastly in team fights, champs should be focused down 1 by 1. It is very rare that the full shield is used by every champ, and is more likely to pop on just one or two. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On July 27 2012 11:12 czylu wrote: That's entirely way too situational to see in a real game and the comparison to soraka's is completely off base. First soraka's ultimate is global, and is not limited to nearby champs. Second it is a heal, not a temporary shield, so the Hp gains are permanently used, not temporary. Lastly in team fights, champs should be focused down 1 by 1. It is very rare that the full shield is used by every champ, and is more likely to pop on just one or two. Not at all. Most APs have some sort of AOE abilities (unless you are facing, say, LeBlanc), so it's not just Vladimir. Although I do admit Vladimir's R is the easiest to deal with when it comes to the Locket. | ||
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Lmui
Canada6221 Posts
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
On July 27 2012 10:22 Lmui wrote: You're paying 825 gold total for 200 hp and 5gp10. Before, you were paying 825 gold for 250 hp and 5gp10. You're losing out on 50 hp overall but there's literally nothing better you can get during the timespan which you'd buy a HoG. 175 hp you're getting regardless with the ruby crystal, it's just a question of whether you get +25 or +75 beyond that. AFAIK, most of the hate on HoG was regarding getting it on top laners/junglers. It's still a core item on supports. I'd still take Kindlegem over HoG any day simply because of the fact that it actually builds into something good. Gp10 is a really overrated stat. Just by the natural gp10 flow in the game you gain 78 gold per minute (13 gp10) and everytime you add an item which grants gp10 you can add another 30 gold per minute. HoG by itself gives you a free ward every 2½ min, but then again you spent the gold of 11 wards in order to get that free ward, and you delayed your core by 825 gold aswell, which is roughly 10% of your total game income on average. Before when it gave 250 hp it was a decent choice especially if you could rush it quick, because it gave you a larger health pool to survive burst in lane and/or early team fights. Removing 130 gold worth of stats from an item that was purchased for better lane presence just made it worse and considering how much supports enjoy cdr i really can't justify how 5 gp10 is better than 10% cdr (and the opportunity to upgrade it even further) I've been trying to figure out how i'm gonna build my supports now and i've come to this conclusion: Either start with faerie+wards+pots or boots+wards+pots (amount depends on how many points into wealth). I like boots+1 ward+2 pots if i wanna play agressively and have confidence that i can get an early advantage. Then you go philo/boots -> kindlegem -> aegis -> reverie. This build is optimal for the junglers who has a need for frozen and reverie early. Having 2 reveries isn't bad, but you can delay yours untill after your aegis, because the aura is nice for you and your team. The other path is: Philo/boots -> kindlegem -> zekes -> reverie. This build is optimal when your jungler is AD. I've seen a trend (correct me if i'm wrong here) where the jungler gets an early aegis after his wriggles. It's not like reverie is bad, i just find it more suitable for late game with my type of play style. You can however get it at any point between your zekes/aegis if you feel the need for mini-ghost. | ||
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