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I had a discussion with my co-workers today, whether a sc2 pro could take on two average players, who do understand much bout the game but never aimed to become a pro at it.
My line of thought was that even tho I consider myself avg or even worse at sc2, I do not see anyone (no matter how good) win against two players like me. We would simply go mass marines for the first 5-7min(or even less) and walk into the base of our opponent. He might be able to get a slight advantage due to his micro/macro etc. but this would mean something like 1-2 more scv's etc. or even 1-2 tier (very unlikely however) 1 units. We would still have a army almost twice as big and simply walk in the base and wreck havoc. Since i know that theres no sense in playing a macro game with someone knows the game inside out, I'd simply rush from the begining.
Although they didn't think that the pro would win 100% of the time, they still argued and try to convince me that he'd have some chances. I on the other hand, think that he wouldn't have even 0.001% of them. Same applies to other semi-balanced games like wc3.
Am i right or am i right?
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Depends on what level - Diamond / masters, no way.
Platinum is shady, probably possible.
Gold and under is out of the question.
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Well, in the right forum you aren't
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I myself am an average masters player, and i reckon two masters players can 2v1 outplay any pro anyday.
There is ofcourse the skill difference between the masters players and a pro, but being with two is way better then having the advantage of being a pro.
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I mean, couldn't a pro Zerg player just 6 pool you and win? Odds are he (or she) can out-micro your workers and win...
Also he or she could go for a baneling all in and win too. It really depends on race combinations as well.
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I think it would depend on what kind of regular players we're talking about. Bronze, gold or masters?
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Above a certain level the pro will never win, basically if the non-pros have any idea how to play the game they will win easily.
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This should be an OTR challange "Fight 2 players at same time"
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Lets say 1 player does a stargate allin, Player 2 commits to a 6-7 gate allin I dont see how anyone could hold it off. If the players are like Plat/gold, then probably not. However higher then that then no the pro loses.
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There was this "bet" on a thread on TL 1.5 years ago when SC2 just released. This forum-member called CheAse, he was high diamond at the time (I don't think masters league was invented yet, w/e) and he was challenged by 2 of his classmates who were both in gold-league (in 2v2). There was a $100 bet on the line, the thread/hype amounted to 100+ pages and the games were even live-casted by several casters.
So 1 high-diamond (prob a high masters now) vs 2 gold-leaguers and it was a bo5 (or bo7 lol). And CheAse won by a score of 3-1 I think. He lost the first game b/c he tried to macro up but the 2 gold-leaguers just all-inned him. But afterwards, CheAse went for harass as well and that really threw the scrubs off their game and he managed to win the series.
But the 2 guys he faced were BAD, like, one of the dudes built-a-PF-at-their-main-BAD.
edit: found the thread of the "grudgematch"
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=157860
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On April 20 2012 04:02 KookyMonster wrote:
I mean, couldn't a pro Zerg player just 6 pool you and win? Odds are he (or she) can out-micro your workers and win...
Also he or she could go for a baneling all in and win too. It really depends on race combinations as well.
2 platinum players could both 6pool a pro-gamer (and bring drones too) and just win as well. lol.
At least, they'd auto win against a Zerg pro-gamer (no wall).
Against a Protoss or Terran pro-gamer, proxy 2rax from each platinum player would auto win (drowning the pro-gamer player in marines and a few scvs).
Quantity of units, not quality. No reason to push it past the 10 minute mark, because then actual divide and conquer or high-level mechanics can push the advantage towards the pro-gamer.
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A top pro(drg, mkp, etc) could beat 2 diamond players as long as they weren't doing any all in / cheese.
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On April 20 2012 04:06 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2012 04:02 KookyMonster wrote:
I mean, couldn't a pro Zerg player just 6 pool you and win? Odds are he (or she) can out-micro your workers and win...
Also he or she could go for a baneling all in and win too. It really depends on race combinations as well. 2 platinum players could both 6pool a pro-gamer (and bring drones too) and just win as well. lol. At least, they'd auto win against a Zerg pro-gamer (no wall). Against a Protoss or Terran pro-gamer, proxy 2rax from each platinum player would auto win (drowning the pro-gamer player in marines and a few scvs). Quantity of units, not quality. No reason to push it past the 10 minute mark, because then actual divide and conquer or high-level mechanics can push the advantage towards the pro-gamer.
i disagree, its possible to hold 2 6pools and 2 proxy hatch played by platinum players for top pros. keep in mind they fear the early game the most, they will play safe.
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On April 20 2012 04:03 monkh wrote:
This should be an OTR challange "Fight 2 players at same time"
That's a fantastic idea :D I'd love to see sick multitask by a pro terran to pick apart two players at the same time 
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2 timed 4-gate just work well
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I've seen HuK hold 2 players worker rush with only his probes.
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The pro would beat you at your own game. A zerg, for instance, would likely early pool and do a lot of damage to one of you by simple virtue of out-microing you. From there, they use their superior multitasking to simply beat the other guy. You'd be surprised at the level differences even among masters players, and then pros.
Think about this:
Low masters players are almost consistently beaten 1v1 by high masters players.
High masters are are almost always beat by grandmasters.
Grandmasters are almost always beaten by the tip-top in grandmasters.
And then there's another level entirely of the "super-pros" that would just demolish. They're almost super human. Think about it. Most of us could never hope to beat even a pro like incontrol. Incontrol would probably beat any one of us almost every single time. But there are players in EG, like idra, who beat incontrol every time (almost). But there's players who beat idra almost everytime too.
The point I'm making is that SC2 has more levels than most people realize. If we're talking about one of these super-pros, yes, I think he could beat two players up to mid-masters. Though I would agree he would have difficulty with specific timings, he would likely aim to cripple one of you early.
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Any metagame 2:2 strat (that even lots of silver players manage to do) should take a pro down since it hits hard early. But the cut off is around there I'd say. My guess is that a pro should be able to take 2 low gold players in a best of 7 if he manages to secure a quick 2base without dying to early pushes. But it would be close.
I have myself 1v2:ed quite a few times when playing custom 2:2 on shattered temple but thats was vs quite worthless players. And by 1v2 I mean that my ally sat in his base playing sim city while I attacked and killed the other guys. This is however quite different from a real 1v2 scenario since while my ally didnt do anything he still exists in the game and cripples the mentality of the opponents.
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Violet vs 2 Diamond ( TP ) he lost.
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On April 20 2012 04:14 Felnarion wrote:
The pro would beat you at your own game. A zerg, for instance, would likely early pool and do a lot of damage to one of you by simple virtue of out-microing you. From there, they use their superior multitasking to simply beat the other guy. You'd be surprised at the level differences even among masters players, and then pros.
Think about this:
Low masters players are almost consistently beaten 1v1 by high masters players.
High masters are are almost always beat by grandmasters.
Grandmasters are almost always beaten by the tip-top in grandmasters.
And then there's another level entirely of the "super-pros" that would just demolish. They're almost super human. Think about it. Most of us could never hope to beat even a pro like incontrol. Incontrol would probably beat any one of us almost every single time. But there are players in EG, like idra, who beat incontrol every time (almost). But there's players who beat idra almost everytime too.
The point I'm making is that SC2 has more levels than most people realize. If we're talking about one of these super-pros, yes, I think he could beat two players up to mid-masters. Though I would agree he would have difficulty with specific timings, he would likely aim to cripple one of you early.
I'm not arguing whether gm's are waaay better than the non-grandmasters when it comes to 1v1. Im talking strictly 1v2 here. If the "pro" would chose zerg for that matter, i and my ally would do the same and go early zergs. It's quite simple that he'd pwn one of our bases but at the same time he'd lose his entirely! And the second player with the base still untouched would finish him off if needed. If he would go for terran/toss both me and the ally would chose terran and rush straight from the beginig. I don't see how he would win even one game. If someone feels on the proper level to proove me worng, be my guest. Bah! I'm even willing to bet $25 that such a team would win 3 out of 3
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EPT
