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Starcraft 2 1v2 chances - Page 12

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Fuchsteufelswild
Profile Joined October 2009
Australia2028 Posts
April 22 2012 04:51 GMT
#221
Most likely, however whoever (likely the pair) won, 'twould not be fun.
ZerO - FantaSy - Calm - Nal_rA - Jaedong - NaDa - EffOrt - Bisu - by.hero - StarDust - Welmu - Nerchio - Supernova - Solar - Squirtle - LosirA - Grubby - IntoTheRainbow - Golden... ~~~ Incredible Miracle and Woongjin Stars 화이팅!
JitnikoVi
Profile Joined May 2010
Russian Federation396 Posts
April 22 2012 04:59 GMT
#222
slightly off topic,

but sc2 is significantly easier than sc:bw (multi building select, multi unit select), im almost positive that a top pro in sc1 would destroy two very good sc1 players... say B to B+ level (on iccup standards).
In theory yes, but theoretically, no.
CakeSauc3
Profile Joined February 2011
United States1437 Posts
April 22 2012 05:04 GMT
#223
On April 22 2012 13:59 JitnikoVi wrote:
slightly off topic,

but sc2 is significantly easier than sc:bw (multi building select, multi unit select), im almost positive that a top pro in sc1 would destroy two very good sc1 players... say B to B+ level (on iccup standards).


Yeah, several people have mentioned this already, and I think it can't be disputed. In bw, micro and multitasking were much bigger factors, I think a pro could absolutely destroy two of me in that game, whereas in sc2 I think 2 of me could absolutely destroy MKP or DRG (and I'm only diamond)
Contractor
Profile Joined May 2011
United States41 Posts
April 22 2012 05:31 GMT
#224
On April 20 2012 04:07 Siffer wrote:
A top pro(drg, mkp, etc) could beat 2 diamond players as long as they weren't doing any all in / cheese.



No way. Thats too much.

I think low platinum is the cut off.
NA Master Protoss Fighting
Stanlot
Profile Joined December 2010
United States5742 Posts
April 22 2012 05:32 GMT
#225
Why wouldn't a double worker rush by any two players regardless of league be auto win?
MC: "Sentry Forcefield Forcefield Marauder... cage Marauder die die"
tdt
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3179 Posts
April 22 2012 06:51 GMT
#226
No chance. Both 4 gate pro every time. It's impossible to stop a 8 gate at 5 min.
MC for president
tdt
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3179 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-22 06:53:24
April 22 2012 06:53 GMT
#227
On April 22 2012 14:32 Stanlot wrote:
Why wouldn't a double worker rush by any two players regardless of league be auto win?

Or this. Or any all in.
MC for president
Trealador
Profile Joined August 2011
United States207 Posts
April 22 2012 06:57 GMT
#228
I beat my two silver-gold friends and it wasn't even close. You will win if you get people who are gold or under, above that they understand that you can marine scv rush and win. If you are talking an actual game though, involving more than 1 base all in or cheese, the pro probably has a good chance of winning.

Like a man.
Pwere
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada1557 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-22 07:23:26
April 22 2012 07:23 GMT
#229
Start by having a pro beat two players in 2v2 when his ally quits right away. This could easily be an OTR challenge.

A pro could very likely take two gold or lower players on a map like TDA or Atlantis Spaceship, but they could likely be fed a build that would win everytime.
teamamerica
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States958 Posts
April 22 2012 07:35 GMT
#230
I'd say if you just took 2 dia or lower players and threw them into a game vs a pro, they'd lose the first few games before they figured out a good rush timing and how to work well together. The first few times they might either try to macro or hit different rush timings. Probably masters too tbh, I'm pretty bad and I'm masters. I've 1v2 my roommates before (plat and gold) and won when I was diamond.

And just as a side note, I know games I've played aren't indicative of everything but I was playing around on my friends account and matching plats on NA ladder (I was randoming) and beat a toss by going 2 base ultralisk, and a toss by rushing one base mothership. The account started in bronze but I went 20-0 so these were the final few games (matching plats). And I don't even main either of those two races, or am I good at my main (I'm low masters T). So I'd say plat is still pretty terrible (I'm also terrible, just on average plat is worse). Sure plat might be a little better then earlier, but so is every other league.
RIP GOMTV. RIP PROLEAGUE.
althaz
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia1001 Posts
April 22 2012 08:04 GMT
#231
On April 22 2012 16:23 Pwere wrote:
Start by having a pro beat two players in 2v2 when his ally quits right away. This could easily be an OTR challenge.

A pro could very likely take two gold or lower players on a map like TDA or Atlantis Spaceship, but they could likely be fed a build that would win everytime.

This is actually really easy. I've beaten dual diamonds on NA in this way. You still start with 2 bases per team and the right amount of workers. Sure, you need better macro, but you're teamwork is going to be a lot better.
The first rule we don't talk about race conditions. of race conditions is
Zoesan
Profile Joined March 2012
Switzerland141 Posts
April 23 2012 10:24 GMT
#232
Ok, so I tried to upload my replay to sc2replayed.com, but nothing is happening. Does anyone know a good site to upload replays? never done this before <.<

Once I get a site, I'll show off some sick platinum macro skills!
Suffer the pain of discipline or suffer the pain of regret
Lunden
Profile Joined June 2011
Denmark79 Posts
April 23 2012 11:06 GMT
#233
On April 23 2012 19:24 Zoesan wrote:
Ok, so I tried to upload my replay to sc2replayed.com, but nothing is happening. Does anyone know a good site to upload replays? never done this before <.<

Once I get a site, I'll show off some sick platinum macro skills!



drop sc is amazing
You always pass failure on the way to success
-Celestial-
Profile Joined September 2011
United Kingdom3867 Posts
April 23 2012 12:20 GMT
#234
Assuming its one base per player? Simply put, if it goes to a macro game I reckon the pro would have it unless he just lets them mass up a 400/400 army. At least that'd be the case if he's playing Terran due to the defensive advantages offered by bunkers, complete wall-offs and siege tanks; I dunno about other races, its a bit more iffy there.

However against two people who have some idea of the game, are cooperating and are looking to make the most of their advantage with a quick win I just can't see it happening. I don't care how good you are, its not hard for someone to get a solid all-in strategy down to a decent timing. And holding a double-4gate by yourself isn't going to happen, likewise a double 6 or 7-pool, again for a double marine/SCV all-in (actually I think I've just given my subconscious fuel for future nightmares with that one).

Pros are better, much better, but translating that skill advantage to a win against two opponents who have some idea of what they're doing is an entirely different matter.
"Protoss simultaneously feels unbeatably strong and unwinnably weak." - kcdc
Trevoc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States145 Posts
April 23 2012 12:21 GMT
#235
I have 2v1'd my suitemates and won everytime until they figured out to double worker rush
There is no limit.
ButtCraft
Profile Joined March 2011
United States114 Posts
April 23 2012 12:35 GMT
#236
On April 20 2012 04:14 Felnarion wrote:
The pro would beat you at your own game. A zerg, for instance, would likely early pool and do a lot of damage to one of you by simple virtue of out-microing you. From there, they use their superior multitasking to simply beat the other guy. You'd be surprised at the level differences even among masters players, and then pros.

Think about this:

Low masters players are almost consistently beaten 1v1 by high masters players.
High masters are are almost always beat by grandmasters.
Grandmasters are almost always beaten by the tip-top in grandmasters.

And then there's another level entirely of the "super-pros" that would just demolish. They're almost super human. Think about it. Most of us could never hope to beat even a pro like incontrol. Incontrol would probably beat any one of us almost every single time. But there are players in EG, like idra, who beat incontrol every time (almost). But there's players who beat idra almost everytime too.

The point I'm making is that SC2 has more levels than most people realize. If we're talking about one of these super-pros, yes, I think he could beat two players up to mid-masters. Though I would agree he would have difficulty with specific timings, he would likely aim to cripple one of you early.



I don't know, I'm high masters and I think I could most certainly take at least 2-3 games off of incontrol if we played 10.
Sometimes you just gotta say fuck it, and swing for the fuckin fences
Proseat
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Germany5113 Posts
April 27 2012 05:47 GMT
#237
On April 20 2012 04:03 monkh wrote:
This should be an OTR challange "Fight 2 players at same time"


What have you done...

Poor HerO.
The Rise and Fall of SlayerS -- a timeline: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=378097
Premasiri
Profile Joined May 2012
United Kingdom30 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-16 17:29:59
May 16 2012 17:06 GMT
#238
Sorry if anyone else has already mentioned this, but a while ago I saw a 1v2 showmatch between Whitera and two mid-masters (to the best of my recollection) players - I think all three players were protoss, certainly at least one of his opponents was. It all came down to the thinnest of margins, and I think it's plausible to extrapolate this further - particularly with protoss.

Say you have perfect (or near perfect control) and you're against two players who got into master's with a good grasp of the game, some solid mechanics, but you have that one edge over them. Lanchester combat mechanics dictates something along the lines of "the difference in relative power of two armies is not the difference in absolute numbers, but that difference squared." - For example, if you have 10 marines and the other guy has 5, you don't both lose 5, you'd lose probably 3 (rough example)

Now - to relate this back to the thread in question, if the pro (and I realise this is a big if) gets the smallest of advantages in the early game, through a perfectly placed forcefield or two, some flawless blink micro if that's what they rushed, some excellent positioning or good kiting (there are a myriad of possibilities, this is to name but a few) that edge can translate into a much bigger knock-on "lead" later in the game.

As I remember it (though do correct me - I have in fact been looking for the replays/vods of this showmatch to no avail - it was a while ago) Whitera won through a combination of these factors - winning just one crucial early game engagement with small numbers of units on either side, maximising his unit potential and composition in order to pull ahead by just enough to turn the tide.

So, to answer the ORIGINAL question - yes I think it's possible, but I also concede that 90% of the time you would be able to swamp the opponent. I think a lot of the plausibility for a 1v2 victory against any kind of decent (low masters+) opponents rests on the 1 person being protoss - a few sentries or a zealot in a perfect position can simply negate the vast majority of early game damage from say, zealots or zerglings, or segment the enemy's army into vastly smaller chunks where (as detailed above) the smallest empirical edge can give you a far larger effective lead. Protoss has always been about micro-managing engagements to minimise enemy surface area and engagement strength, and maximise your own damage output - extend those features to a 1v2 engagement where the other two perhaps slip on their mechanics while focussing on micro, and the pro player does not make that mistake and is able to not fall behind, and I think it's entirely plausible

Sorry for the wall of text, more gg more skill!
Beastyqt
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Serbia516 Posts
May 16 2012 17:14 GMT
#239
You cant defeat 2 mid-high masters, but you can win 2 diamonds, I won 1v2 vs 2 high diamonds TZ and me T.
Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/Beastyqt YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/beastyqtsc2
ZenithM
Profile Joined February 2011
France15952 Posts
May 16 2012 17:14 GMT
#240
On April 22 2012 16:23 Pwere wrote:
Start by having a pro beat two players in 2v2 when his ally quits right away. This could easily be an OTR challenge.

A pro could very likely take two gold or lower players on a map like TDA or Atlantis Spaceship, but they could likely be fed a build that would win everytime.

This is way too easy man. It's actually a legit (and even overpowered) strat in 2v2.
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