|
On September 19 2025 09:06 RogueTheGOAT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2025 08:27 Balnazza wrote:On September 19 2025 07:47 RogueTheGOAT wrote:On September 19 2025 06:43 monitor wrote:
There’s balance and there’s game design. Two distinct aspects of the patch.
I like increasing the zoning tools of each race. I don’t like the balance implications.
Game design wise, any attempt to improve SC2 that does not include adding highground advantage and removing warp gates is misguided. Any game design change that does not delete queens is misguided. The unit violates both basic RTS principles and the fundamental Zerg design principle. It should have been removed in the same patch that removed the Mothership Core. Removing the Mothership Core was somewhat easy. Removing the Queen would literally mean to entirely re-design the Zerg-race. You might not know this, but Zerg players don't use Queens because they are "lul OP", they use them because there is literally no chance in hell to survive the first 5-7 minutes without them... That literally described Protoss with the Mothership Core. After they removed it, they had to add Shield Batteries, but those weren't enough, so they added the overcharge ability, but then people complained, so that was removed and Energy Recharge was added, but then people complained, so that is being nerfed and storm gutted. Larva production could be increased and Zerg players could invest further into macro hatcheries like they do in Brood War.
Queens also currently provide the only form of anti-air from a unit available before Lair, they are able to heal units and structures and Creep Tumors are currently one of the most powerful tools that any race has.
Even if you think that Creep should be nerfed, these are all simply MUCH bigger facets of the race than just what the Mothership Core used to provide. The fact that Protoss is still a work in progress for replacing that unit should give you an idea of how difficult it would be to remove Queens.
Like I said, the goal is a worthwhile one, but we couldn't even begin to try without serious consideration for everything involved in doing it.
|
On September 19 2025 09:08 WombaT wrote:
Protoss will get absolutely fucking butchered if those storm changes go through, what the fuck is that?
Terrans and Zergs will just run through it and kill you.
Luckily Toss can count on the Colossus to fill the AoE role. Wait, Vikings are also cheaper now?
The whole point of surveillance mode is just to stick observers in place, it always was. If that’s an issue, I’d argue nerf its vision range in that mode slightly, be less F2 friendly. Not the opposite. What’s the point in having observers with a bit more vision range that can be killed by anything that can shoot up?
Siege tanks can’t be abducted I also don’t like. Why siege tanks specifically? From my understanding a lot of non-pro players already struggle playing versus mech, so let’s make it harder?
Why not Collosus and Disruptors? Unless you hit a really sharp timing, Vipers render Robo-centric play borderline useless. Indeed, it’s why Toss players go Airtoss in the first place.
Other stuff, I think there’s some interesting tweaks, and other stuff I’m not sure on, but interested to see how it plays out.
The Templar change will completely make Toss unviable at the top level at least, there’s nothing to compensate properly. Templars now suck, so you have to look at another AoE option. Well, if it’s Colossus Terran can squeeze more Vikings out, and Disruptors are already suffering from their last nerf.
In PvZ if Temps now suck, you will just die. Either you play the current meta, and Zergs will just run through your storms and kill you, or you adapt and go Robo, and Zergs will make a few vipers and laugh at you
Apparently the Storm change specifically we can directly blame on Harstem.
I seriously don't understand what the thought process is on it at all.
|
On September 19 2025 09:11 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2025 09:06 RogueTheGOAT wrote:On September 19 2025 08:27 Balnazza wrote:On September 19 2025 07:47 RogueTheGOAT wrote:On September 19 2025 06:43 monitor wrote:
There’s balance and there’s game design. Two distinct aspects of the patch.
I like increasing the zoning tools of each race. I don’t like the balance implications.
Game design wise, any attempt to improve SC2 that does not include adding highground advantage and removing warp gates is misguided. Any game design change that does not delete queens is misguided. The unit violates both basic RTS principles and the fundamental Zerg design principle. It should have been removed in the same patch that removed the Mothership Core. Removing the Mothership Core was somewhat easy. Removing the Queen would literally mean to entirely re-design the Zerg-race. You might not know this, but Zerg players don't use Queens because they are "lul OP", they use them because there is literally no chance in hell to survive the first 5-7 minutes without them... That literally described Protoss with the Mothership Core. After they removed it, they had to add Shield Batteries, but those weren't enough, so they added the overcharge ability, but then people complained, so that was removed and Energy Recharge was added, but then people complained, so that is being nerfed and storm gutted. Larva production could be increased and Zerg players could invest further into macro hatcheries like they do in Brood War. Queens also currently provide the only form of anti-air from a unit available before Lair, they are able to heal units and structures and Creep Tumors are currently one of the most powerful tools that any race has. Even if you think that Creep should be nerfed, these are all simply MUCH bigger facets of the race than just what the Mothership Core used to provide. The fact that Protoss is still a work in progress for replacing that unit should give you an idea of how difficult it would be to remove Queens. Like I said, the goal is a worthwhile one, but we couldn't even begin to try without serious consideration for everything involved in doing it.
You do know that Zerg used to have a hatchery tech anti-air unit, right?
|
On September 19 2025 09:35 RogueTheGOAT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2025 09:11 Vindicare605 wrote:On September 19 2025 09:06 RogueTheGOAT wrote:On September 19 2025 08:27 Balnazza wrote:On September 19 2025 07:47 RogueTheGOAT wrote:On September 19 2025 06:43 monitor wrote:
There’s balance and there’s game design. Two distinct aspects of the patch.
I like increasing the zoning tools of each race. I don’t like the balance implications.
Game design wise, any attempt to improve SC2 that does not include adding highground advantage and removing warp gates is misguided. Any game design change that does not delete queens is misguided. The unit violates both basic RTS principles and the fundamental Zerg design principle. It should have been removed in the same patch that removed the Mothership Core. Removing the Mothership Core was somewhat easy. Removing the Queen would literally mean to entirely re-design the Zerg-race. You might not know this, but Zerg players don't use Queens because they are "lul OP", they use them because there is literally no chance in hell to survive the first 5-7 minutes without them... That literally described Protoss with the Mothership Core. After they removed it, they had to add Shield Batteries, but those weren't enough, so they added the overcharge ability, but then people complained, so that was removed and Energy Recharge was added, but then people complained, so that is being nerfed and storm gutted. Larva production could be increased and Zerg players could invest further into macro hatcheries like they do in Brood War. Queens also currently provide the only form of anti-air from a unit available before Lair, they are able to heal units and structures and Creep Tumors are currently one of the most powerful tools that any race has. Even if you think that Creep should be nerfed, these are all simply MUCH bigger facets of the race than just what the Mothership Core used to provide. The fact that Protoss is still a work in progress for replacing that unit should give you an idea of how difficult it would be to remove Queens. Like I said, the goal is a worthwhile one, but we couldn't even begin to try without serious consideration for everything involved in doing it. You do know that Zerg used to have a hatchery tech anti-air unit, right?
Oh I'm aware, but say we move Hydralisks to Tier 1. Would they be balanced at Tier 1? I don't think so, especially vs Protoss, Hydralisk busts are already meta in ZvP in Brood War, and if Hydralisks got moved to Hatch Tech I certainly think they would become an issue in the match up.
That's only one issue I can think of happening if we just swap Hydralisks to tier 1 without any other changes.
This also still wouldn't change anything about Queens' other roles.
|
Northern Ireland25694 Posts
On September 19 2025 09:13 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2025 09:08 WombaT wrote:
Protoss will get absolutely fucking butchered if those storm changes go through, what the fuck is that?
Terrans and Zergs will just run through it and kill you.
Luckily Toss can count on the Colossus to fill the AoE role. Wait, Vikings are also cheaper now?
The whole point of surveillance mode is just to stick observers in place, it always was. If that’s an issue, I’d argue nerf its vision range in that mode slightly, be less F2 friendly. Not the opposite. What’s the point in having observers with a bit more vision range that can be killed by anything that can shoot up?
Siege tanks can’t be abducted I also don’t like. Why siege tanks specifically? From my understanding a lot of non-pro players already struggle playing versus mech, so let’s make it harder?
Why not Collosus and Disruptors? Unless you hit a really sharp timing, Vipers render Robo-centric play borderline useless. Indeed, it’s why Toss players go Airtoss in the first place.
Other stuff, I think there’s some interesting tweaks, and other stuff I’m not sure on, but interested to see how it plays out.
The Templar change will completely make Toss unviable at the top level at least, there’s nothing to compensate properly. Templars now suck, so you have to look at another AoE option. Well, if it’s Colossus Terran can squeeze more Vikings out, and Disruptors are already suffering from their last nerf.
In PvZ if Temps now suck, you will just die. Either you play the current meta, and Zergs will just run through your storms and kill you, or you adapt and go Robo, and Zergs will make a few vipers and laugh at you Apparently the Storm change specifically we can directly blame on Harstem. I seriously don't understand what the thought process is on it at all.
I don’t doubt Harstem had the idea. Of pro players he’s quite reasonable in identifying potential issues with his own race, better than most.
But I would assume Harstem had a minor tweak in mind.
He probably said storm is brutally punishing, especially at lower levels and people maybe should get a little more time to mitigate the damage.
I doubt he advocated for a storm nerf that will basically enable you to just walk through it.
|
Dominican Republic626 Posts
Queens do not need to be removed, they need to get a cost increase or a supply cost increase, the unit fills so many roles for the price/supply it cost.
|
On September 19 2025 09:08 WombaT wrote:
Protoss will get absolutely fucking butchered if those storm changes go through, what the fuck is that?
Terrans and Zergs will just run through it and kill you.
Luckily Toss can count on the Colossus to fill the AoE role. Wait, Vikings are also cheaper now?
The whole point of surveillance mode is just to stick observers in place, it always was. If that’s an issue, I’d argue nerf its vision range in that mode slightly, be less F2 friendly. Not the opposite. What’s the point in having observers with a bit more vision range that can be killed by anything that can shoot up?
Siege tanks can’t be abducted I also don’t like. Why siege tanks specifically? From my understanding a lot of non-pro players already struggle playing versus mech, so let’s make it harder?
Why not Collosus and Disruptors? Unless you hit a really sharp timing, Vipers render Robo-centric play borderline useless. Indeed, it’s why Toss players go Airtoss in the first place.
Other stuff, I think there’s some interesting tweaks, and other stuff I’m not sure on, but interested to see how it plays out.
The Templar change will completely make Toss unviable at the top level at least, there’s nothing to compensate properly. Templars now suck, so you have to look at another AoE option. Well, if it’s Colossus Terran can squeeze more Vikings out, and Disruptors are already suffering from their last nerf.
In PvZ if Temps now suck, you will just die. Either you play the current meta, and Zergs will just run through your storms and kill you, or you adapt and go Robo, and Zergs will make a few vipers and laugh at you
Bio ball will literally Stim a move and crush the toss army
Lings and banes literally laugh at it. Now banes will definitely connect no matter what
Basically Terran and Zergs no longer need to bait out storms. They just need to be decisive on the attack and run though it
|
Northern Ireland25694 Posts
On September 19 2025 10:09 TeamMamba wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2025 09:08 WombaT wrote:
Protoss will get absolutely fucking butchered if those storm changes go through, what the fuck is that?
Terrans and Zergs will just run through it and kill you.
Luckily Toss can count on the Colossus to fill the AoE role. Wait, Vikings are also cheaper now?
The whole point of surveillance mode is just to stick observers in place, it always was. If that’s an issue, I’d argue nerf its vision range in that mode slightly, be less F2 friendly. Not the opposite. What’s the point in having observers with a bit more vision range that can be killed by anything that can shoot up?
Siege tanks can’t be abducted I also don’t like. Why siege tanks specifically? From my understanding a lot of non-pro players already struggle playing versus mech, so let’s make it harder?
Why not Collosus and Disruptors? Unless you hit a really sharp timing, Vipers render Robo-centric play borderline useless. Indeed, it’s why Toss players go Airtoss in the first place.
Other stuff, I think there’s some interesting tweaks, and other stuff I’m not sure on, but interested to see how it plays out.
The Templar change will completely make Toss unviable at the top level at least, there’s nothing to compensate properly. Templars now suck, so you have to look at another AoE option. Well, if it’s Colossus Terran can squeeze more Vikings out, and Disruptors are already suffering from their last nerf.
In PvZ if Temps now suck, you will just die. Either you play the current meta, and Zergs will just run through your storms and kill you, or you adapt and go Robo, and Zergs will make a few vipers and laugh at you Bio ball will literally Stim a move and crush the toss army Lings and banes literally laugh at it. Now banes will definitely connect no matter what Basically Terran and Zergs no longer need to bait out storms. They just need to be decisive on the attack and run though it
Yep.
I’m not very good at the game, and even I think I could just engage through the new Storm, what the fuck is a Clem going to do?
I mean I know we’re in the phase of a bunch of ideas, not all will make it into an actual patch. But this, it just can’t make it in, it’s crazy
|
Love the idea of the patch a lot. After we get some pro games on it numbers may need to be tweaked. Storm may need to be stronger etc, (or leave some sort of status effect like a DoT?) but after number tweaks where need be I think these ideas look solid. I love Zerg is getting dark swarm and really you won't need to abduct siege tanks when you can microbial shroud or blinding cloud engage. Sure ghost snipes can be good, but let's not forget baneling under cloud will help them to get onto ghost. I think it will just make engagements more committed. Can go wrong for Zerg just as much as it can go well. Where as abducts you are sort of playing a positional grindy game as a way of picking them apart. I like this change as it moves closer to Broodwar.
|
United Kingdom20304 Posts
Had to check it's not April 1'st. These changes, especially the larger ones, are awful IMO. Revert all please. In future a paragraph arguing for each change and a poll requiring large majority approval would be appropriate
|
On September 19 2025 09:35 RogueTheGOAT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2025 09:11 Vindicare605 wrote:On September 19 2025 09:06 RogueTheGOAT wrote:On September 19 2025 08:27 Balnazza wrote:On September 19 2025 07:47 RogueTheGOAT wrote:On September 19 2025 06:43 monitor wrote:
There’s balance and there’s game design. Two distinct aspects of the patch.
I like increasing the zoning tools of each race. I don’t like the balance implications.
Game design wise, any attempt to improve SC2 that does not include adding highground advantage and removing warp gates is misguided. Any game design change that does not delete queens is misguided. The unit violates both basic RTS principles and the fundamental Zerg design principle. It should have been removed in the same patch that removed the Mothership Core. Removing the Mothership Core was somewhat easy. Removing the Queen would literally mean to entirely re-design the Zerg-race. You might not know this, but Zerg players don't use Queens because they are "lul OP", they use them because there is literally no chance in hell to survive the first 5-7 minutes without them... That literally described Protoss with the Mothership Core. After they removed it, they had to add Shield Batteries, but those weren't enough, so they added the overcharge ability, but then people complained, so that was removed and Energy Recharge was added, but then people complained, so that is being nerfed and storm gutted. Larva production could be increased and Zerg players could invest further into macro hatcheries like they do in Brood War. Queens also currently provide the only form of anti-air from a unit available before Lair, they are able to heal units and structures and Creep Tumors are currently one of the most powerful tools that any race has. Even if you think that Creep should be nerfed, these are all simply MUCH bigger facets of the race than just what the Mothership Core used to provide. The fact that Protoss is still a work in progress for replacing that unit should give you an idea of how difficult it would be to remove Queens. Like I said, the goal is a worthwhile one, but we couldn't even begin to try without serious consideration for everything involved in doing it. You do know that Zerg used to have a hatchery tech anti-air unit, right?
I like how you try to re-design an entire race with one-liners.
While this has nothing to do with the patch, just a quick rundown (piggybacking a bit of Vindicare here):
1)Early Anti-Air:
Queens are the only early-antiair Zerg has next to investing heavily into spores - which Zergs already do most of the times anyway against Protoss for example. But more importantly, Queens are also the only current Anti-Air that isn't shit. You can't build Corruptors against two Banshees or to chase away the (much faster) 2-3 Oracles. Even if they do, you now have Corruptors (and a very expensive Spire) you can't really do anything with.
And Hydralisk could be T1, but then they would obviously need to be nerfed in some way, meaning Zerg loses another T2 option. Compared to Marines or Stalkers these are all not great options.
2)Early defense
In general, Queens are the most important defensive tool Zerg has. With the need to rapidely expand to 3-4 bases, you can't wall your stuff. And while Zerglings are fast, they are also outgunned in the early game, which is obviously a good thing. Hellions would have a field-day, Reapers aswell, Adepts probably too.
3)Creep-spread
Creep-spread is essential for Zerg. So how would you spread it? Creep tumors need to be spawned from Hatcheries? That slows the creep-spread down so massively, it's unbelievable. Especially considering how fast e.g. Terran can remove Tumors.
4)Injects
You could Auto-Inject for sure, but why would you remove needed APM from Zerg when your goal is to nerf Zerg?
And if the Hatcheries can inject themselves...for one it would be cheaper than with Queens, but it also just feels...lame? Like a lamer version of Chrono-Boost?
And yeah, Macro-Hatcheries clearly solve the problem...just invest 300 Minerals more into a base you don't really need, that should help, especially in the early game.
5)Heal
Probably the one thing you could give another/new unit, but I always thought the fact that in some cases Queen Energy becomes more valuable than Minerals was quite a cool mechanic.
You cannot throw all of this out. You also can't just give each aspect to a new unit, because Zerg actually kind of needs all of that in the beginning and paying for five units instead of one is way too expensive in all regards (Minerals, Larva, APM).
You probably *can* remove the Queen, but the amount of rebalancing you would have to do is insane. Not just for Zerg, but for alle races. Because either you take a lot of early-pressure off of Zerg (aka. nerf the other two) or you give Zerg something to defend, but that something can't be too good at offensive either...
I get the impulse, really. I hate the Medievac with a burning passion, especially the instant-pickup. I think it is lame, a "free-out-of-jail"-card and is way too easy. But I know that just removing the Medievac and giving Terran a Dropship and the Medics back will fix anything. Because these two units together are vastly worse than just a Medievac.
|
On September 19 2025 10:59 Cyro wrote:
Had to check it's not April 1'st. These changes, especially the larger ones, are awful IMO. Revert all please. In future a paragraph arguing for each change and a poll requiring large majority approval would be appropriate
Larger changes are the only thing that will get me to come back to the game in any serious matter. Balanced or not, and for the sake of the argument let's just assume the game is perfectly balanced, it's still stale. If not these I would advocate for some other big sweeping changes.
|
with the microbial shroud change might as well bring back defilers into sc2 then
|
On September 19 2025 11:08 Balnazza wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2025 09:35 RogueTheGOAT wrote:On September 19 2025 09:11 Vindicare605 wrote:On September 19 2025 09:06 RogueTheGOAT wrote:On September 19 2025 08:27 Balnazza wrote:On September 19 2025 07:47 RogueTheGOAT wrote:On September 19 2025 06:43 monitor wrote:
There’s balance and there’s game design. Two distinct aspects of the patch.
I like increasing the zoning tools of each race. I don’t like the balance implications.
Game design wise, any attempt to improve SC2 that does not include adding highground advantage and removing warp gates is misguided. Any game design change that does not delete queens is misguided. The unit violates both basic RTS principles and the fundamental Zerg design principle. It should have been removed in the same patch that removed the Mothership Core. Removing the Mothership Core was somewhat easy. Removing the Queen would literally mean to entirely re-design the Zerg-race. You might not know this, but Zerg players don't use Queens because they are "lul OP", they use them because there is literally no chance in hell to survive the first 5-7 minutes without them... That literally described Protoss with the Mothership Core. After they removed it, they had to add Shield Batteries, but those weren't enough, so they added the overcharge ability, but then people complained, so that was removed and Energy Recharge was added, but then people complained, so that is being nerfed and storm gutted. Larva production could be increased and Zerg players could invest further into macro hatcheries like they do in Brood War. Queens also currently provide the only form of anti-air from a unit available before Lair, they are able to heal units and structures and Creep Tumors are currently one of the most powerful tools that any race has. Even if you think that Creep should be nerfed, these are all simply MUCH bigger facets of the race than just what the Mothership Core used to provide. The fact that Protoss is still a work in progress for replacing that unit should give you an idea of how difficult it would be to remove Queens. Like I said, the goal is a worthwhile one, but we couldn't even begin to try without serious consideration for everything involved in doing it. You do know that Zerg used to have a hatchery tech anti-air unit, right? I like how you try to re-design an entire race with one-liners. While this has nothing to do with the patch, just a quick rundown (piggybacking a bit of Vindicare here): 1)Early Anti-Air: Queens are the only early-antiair Zerg has next to investing heavily into spores - which Zergs already do most of the times anyway against Protoss for example. But more importantly, Queens are also the only current Anti-Air that isn't shit. You can't build Corruptors against two Banshees or to chase away the (much faster) 2-3 Oracles. Even if they do, you now have Corruptors (and a very expensive Spire) you can't really do anything with. And Hydralisk could be T1, but then they would obviously need to be nerfed in some way, meaning Zerg loses another T2 option. Compared to Marines or Stalkers these are all not great options. 2)Early defense In general, Queens are the most important defensive tool Zerg has. With the need to rapidely expand to 3-4 bases, you can't wall your stuff. And while Zerglings are fast, they are also outgunned in the early game, which is obviously a good thing. Hellions would have a field-day, Reapers aswell, Adepts probably too. 3)Creep-spread Creep-spread is essential for Zerg. So how would you spread it? Creep tumors need to be spawned from Hatcheries? That slows the creep-spread down so massively, it's unbelievable. Especially considering how fast e.g. Terran can remove Tumors. 4)Injects You could Auto-Inject for sure, but why would you remove needed APM from Zerg when your goal is to nerf Zerg? And if the Hatcheries can inject themselves...for one it would be cheaper than with Queens, but it also just feels...lame? Like a lamer version of Chrono-Boost? And yeah, Macro-Hatcheries clearly solve the problem...just invest 300 Minerals more into a base you don't really need, that should help, especially in the early game. 5)Heal Probably the one thing you could give another/new unit, but I always thought the fact that in some cases Queen Energy becomes more valuable than Minerals was quite a cool mechanic. You cannot throw all of this out. You also can't just give each aspect to a new unit, because Zerg actually kind of needs all of that in the beginning and paying for five units instead of one is way too expensive in all regards (Minerals, Larva, APM). You probably *can* remove the Queen, but the amount of rebalancing you would have to do is insane. Not just for Zerg, but for alle races. Because either you take a lot of early-pressure off of Zerg (aka. nerf the other two) or you give Zerg something to defend, but that something can't be too good at offensive either... I get the impulse, really. I hate the Medievac with a burning passion, especially the instant-pickup. I think it is lame, a "free-out-of-jail"-card and is way too easy. But I know that just removing the Medievac and giving Terran a Dropship and the Medics back will fix anything. Because these two units together are vastly worse than just a Medievac.
If I had my way the removal (or at least the scaling back) of the Queen would come hand in hand with a rework to Warp Gate as a late game tool.
With both tools removed from the early game arsenal for Protoss and Zerg, you could adjust Terran's early game accordingly. Lock Marauders behind an additional tech structure where Stim would also be researched (Academy anyone?) and adjust tech up speeds in other ways also.
There's still my concern that having both Roaches and Hydralisks at Tier 1 would allow Zergs to hit some gnarly ass upgrade timings at Lair tech but those could be adjusted as they emerge.
|
This patch actually makes StarCraft 2 feel like StarCraft 2! 
|
On September 19 2025 10:11 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2025 10:09 TeamMamba wrote:On September 19 2025 09:08 WombaT wrote:
Protoss will get absolutely fucking butchered if those storm changes go through, what the fuck is that?
Terrans and Zergs will just run through it and kill you.
Luckily Toss can count on the Colossus to fill the AoE role. Wait, Vikings are also cheaper now?
The whole point of surveillance mode is just to stick observers in place, it always was. If that’s an issue, I’d argue nerf its vision range in that mode slightly, be less F2 friendly. Not the opposite. What’s the point in having observers with a bit more vision range that can be killed by anything that can shoot up?
Siege tanks can’t be abducted I also don’t like. Why siege tanks specifically? From my understanding a lot of non-pro players already struggle playing versus mech, so let’s make it harder?
Why not Collosus and Disruptors? Unless you hit a really sharp timing, Vipers render Robo-centric play borderline useless. Indeed, it’s why Toss players go Airtoss in the first place.
Other stuff, I think there’s some interesting tweaks, and other stuff I’m not sure on, but interested to see how it plays out.
The Templar change will completely make Toss unviable at the top level at least, there’s nothing to compensate properly. Templars now suck, so you have to look at another AoE option. Well, if it’s Colossus Terran can squeeze more Vikings out, and Disruptors are already suffering from their last nerf.
In PvZ if Temps now suck, you will just die. Either you play the current meta, and Zergs will just run through your storms and kill you, or you adapt and go Robo, and Zergs will make a few vipers and laugh at you Bio ball will literally Stim a move and crush the toss army Lings and banes literally laugh at it. Now banes will definitely connect no matter what Basically Terran and Zergs no longer need to bait out storms. They just need to be decisive on the attack and run though it Yep. I’m not very good at the game, and even I think I could just engage through the new Storm, what the fuck is a Clem going to do? I mean I know we’re in the phase of a bunch of ideas, not all will make it into an actual patch. But this, it just can’t make it in, it’s crazy
It’s a dumb idea and it’s even dumber that it actually went through. Feels like the balance council has low IQ.
I can somehow “acknowledge” this storm change IF and only if the casting range is similar to the attack range is siege tank or upgraded lurkers. Cause that’s how “zoning” suppose to work
|
I really wish there were comments for the justification and reasoning. The one from the original zealot shield change might actually be overtaken.
Approach is just flawed. If you think something needs adjustment then isolate one thing at a time and try to create as much of a vacuum as possible. Fundamentally changing storm and altering energy overcharge at the same time is asinine.
We've had 3T/2P/2Z racial split for the top prize money tournaments this year, with RSL S2 and the Memestro tournament wrapping up soon.
I'm all for experimental changes but going for ones like these instead of say something like limiting Queens to one per Hatchery and increasing energy and health regeneration, Movespeed, and attack speed doesn't seem fruitful. It's just a process of layering bandaids and patching problems instead of going for the foundation.
Then there are things that people just accept as part of the game but have been absurd for the longest time, like Medivac tankiness - and on that note I think the Warp Prism could use 20-30 shields converted into hit points as well.
Viking change serves no purpose. It just makes TvT into a greater fiesta than it already is, and is largely unnecessary TvP.
The Viper/tank proposition is just absolutely wild, if anything I would have thought it would disable siege mode just for consistency purposes.
Aside from the bugfixes and baneling HP everything proposed is dogwater.
|
Northern Ireland25694 Posts
On September 19 2025 13:38 Agh wrote:
I really wish there were comments for the justification and reasoning. The one from the original zealot shield change might actually be overtaken.
Approach is just flawed. If you think something needs adjustment then isolate one thing at a time and try to create as much of a vacuum as possible. Fundamentally changing storm and altering energy overcharge at the same time is asinine.
We've had 3T/2P/2Z racial split for the top prize money tournaments this year, with RSL S2 and the Memestro tournament wrapping up soon.
I'm all for experimental changes but going for ones like these instead of say something like limiting Queens to one per Hatchery and increasing energy and health regeneration, Movespeed, and attack speed doesn't seem fruitful. It's just a process of layering bandaids and patching problems instead of going for the foundation.
Then there are things that people just accept as part of the game but have been absurd for the longest time, like Medivac tankiness - and on that note I think the Warp Prism could use 20-30 shields converted into hit points as well.
Viking change serves no purpose. It just makes TvT into a greater fiesta than it already is, and is largely unnecessary TvP.
The Viper/tank proposition is just absolutely wild, if anything I would have thought it would disable siege mode just for consistency purposes.
Aside from the bugfixes and baneling HP everything proposed is dogwater.
Agreed 100%
|
Northern Ireland25694 Posts
On September 19 2025 11:13 CicadaSC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2025 10:59 Cyro wrote:
Had to check it's not April 1'st. These changes, especially the larger ones, are awful IMO. Revert all please. In future a paragraph arguing for each change and a poll requiring large majority approval would be appropriate Larger changes are the only thing that will get me to come back to the game in any serious matter. Balanced or not, and for the sake of the argument let's just assume the game is perfectly balanced, it's still stale. If not these I would advocate for some other big sweeping changes.
Right so if they’re radical enough, you’ll come back to the game if changes are made. Even if they’re not balanced
Whereas people who’ve played the game non-stop for 15 years in some cases, have to put up with daft changes that make laddering a fucking torture?
|
Russian Federation395 Posts
If you want to keep the game alive, you may want to bring the changes that make it fun to play, that create new strategies, moments of exploration.
I love the smaller tweaks, but not storm/plague changes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
