EPTOn April 21 2012 21:27 ruiyang wrote:
Another dutch on the same page. What league are you. Lets play this 1v2
Another dutch on the same page. What league are you. Lets play this 1v2
mid masters
Starcraft 2 1v2 chances - Page 10
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Jakkerr
Netherlands2549 Posts
mid masters | ||
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HopLight
Sweden999 Posts
On April 21 2012 21:26 ruiyang wrote: This is why ur platinum (?) u dont see urself that ur timings are off. Im not sayin this to bash platinim or lower players but because all my friends share the same problem. They are unwilling to see what they are really doing wrong. The reason why im high master is not because of my micro, but because i have proper timings and can multitask. Also you are dutch, what league are u? This theorycrafting is anoyying me, lets play 1v2 and ill break this thread or affirm ir Could someone platinum please upload a replay showing that they can keep within 5 minutes of a pro 6 gate timing / managing to send their probes in the first 5 seconds (?!) so these extreme exaggerations can stop. | ||
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OmegaKnetus
Germany431 Posts
On April 21 2012 21:26 ruiyang wrote: This is why ur platinum (?) u dont see urself that ur timings are off. Im not sayin this to bash platinim or lower players but because all my friends share the same problem. They are unwilling to see what they are really doing wrong. The reason why im high master is not because of my micro, but because i have proper timings and can multitask. Also you are dutch, what league are u? This theorycrafting is anoyying me, lets play 1v2 and ill break this thread or affirm ir Maybe platinum players were that bad when season 1 was running, but the skill level of the leagues has increased significantly in the last year. Platinum is not that terribad anymore. Maybe in low gold you get to see such horribly butchered timings, but a 4 gate in platinum will come maybe 10 seconds late if at all. The real problem is not floating tons of money while attacking in multiple places or when trying to place emps in a maxed battle, etc. That atleast is my impression on the eu server. EDIT: And on topic: I think that two players that are atleast high plat (like playing regularly and having real builds) can beat 1 pro easily. Double one base timings would be almost impossible to stop. A macro game would be just as bad, as you can force different responses (e.g. high temps and collosus by a pp team), to which the other player can't react at the same time. The only way to win a 1v2 is if the two players are either horrible in macro or multitasking | ||
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Kyrillion
Russian Federation748 Posts
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
vs 2 diamonds its really hard vs 2 masters impossible vs 2 platins and below its doable while 2 platins can still win games On April 21 2012 21:41 Kyrillion wrote: It's completely impossible if the two players are at least gold. no me (as mid master) beat 2 players 1 platin 2 gold in 3 games 3 times, gold players cant really compare vs masters who play clever 1vs2 style so for all who say its impossible, it is until they are platin or higher (vs 2 mid platins i did 2-4 lose) | ||
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ruiyang
252 Posts
On April 21 2012 21:37 HopLight wrote: Could someone platinum please upload a replay showing that they can keep within 5 minutes of a pro 6 gate timing / managing to send their probes in the first 5 seconds (?!) so these extreme exaggerations can stop. Im not exaggerating. Few simple tests: If a platinum makes his first worker and sent his workers to mine on pro level and get 4gate on proper timing ill shut up about this. For estimation: - making first worker and sending all 5 workers to mine takes a pro 1-2seconds starcraft seconds to do. - at 0:01-0:02replay time u made ur worker and all five workers are moving to mine - at proper timing ur 4 gate is done and first units are warped (can someone link an optimum 4gate timing of a pro?) This only takes 5min to do. And dont go doig this 100x and post ur 1/100 attempt at succeeding, because any top master/pro can pull this off consistently. And no, it isnt easy to even follow the first 5min of a BO perfectly, even for a mid master player. Prove me wrong platinums! | ||
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Lorch
Germany3711 Posts
On April 20 2012 04:13 AC3 wrote: I've seen HuK hold 2 players worker rush with only his probes. Yeah didn't they do this on the tl attack (btw what the fuck happened to that show?) with huk and he raped two guys. Any decent masters player could probably destroy anything from low plat to below no problem. So I guess a pro should be able to 1v2 anything up to atleast mid-high platinum. | ||
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ruiyang
252 Posts
On April 21 2012 21:39 OmegaKnetus wrote: Maybe platinum players were that bad when season 1 was running, but the skill level of the leagues has increased significantly in the last year. Platinum is not that terribad anymore. Maybe in low gold you get to see such horribly butchered timings, but a 4 gate in platinum will come maybe 10 seconds late if at all. The real problem is not floating tons of money while attacking in multiple places or when trying to place emps in a maxed battle, etc. That atleast is my impression on the eu server. Im not talking about season 1. Back in season 1 i was in top200 ranking worldwide (ladder) now im probably like one of the many many high masters/mid master. I have lots of accounts and even last season when i started anew i could easily get 30-0 before promoted to masters. Never seen a platinum or many of my platinum friends seen do a timing properly. Im not bragging, im saying i suck at sc2 now | ||
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OmegaKnetus
Germany431 Posts
On April 21 2012 21:44 ruiyang wrote: Im not exaggerating. Few simple tests: If a platinum makes his first worker and sent his workers to mine on pro level and get 4gate on proper timing ill shut up about this. For estimation: - making first worker and sending all 5 workers to mine takes a pro 1-2seconds starcraft seconds to do. - at 0:01-0:02replay time u made ur worker and all five workers are moving to mine - at proper timing ur 4 gate is done and first units are warped (can someone link an optimum 4gate timing of a pro?) This only takes 5min to do. And dont go doig this 100x and post ur 1/100 attempt at succeeding, because any top master/pro can pull this off consistently. And no, it isnt easy to even follow the first 5min of a BO perfectly, even for a mid master player. Prove me wrong platinums! Why should we provide evidence for your exaggerated claims. Why don't you present your evidence. I could care less what some random dude thinks. | ||
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Psychobabas
2531 Posts
Platinum and above: pro losses I just cant see any pro holding 2 protoss allining him, even if they just amove. Not to mention one can just feed the other. | ||
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ruiyang
252 Posts
On April 21 2012 21:51 OmegaKnetus wrote: Why should we provide evidence for your exaggerated claims. Why don't you present your evidence. I could care less what some random dude thinks. Well just check a replay of a random pro and a random platinum. First 5 seconds my point is made. Pro makes first worker and sends workers between 00:00-00:02seconds and platinum at 00:05-00:15 seconds. Point proven. Or am i wrong and all my platinum friends dont deserve to be there? I trained many of my friends to masters, and it all starts wih acknowledging ur timings suck. Im even sure nestea has his moments that he thinks his timing shouldv been 30sec earlier. (e.g. Shit this game i shouldve had broodlords 30sec earlier, i was too slow). Because by thinking this way u get better. And because most bad ppl dont think this way they never e out of plat/diamond | ||
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Opec
42 Posts
On April 21 2012 21:19 ruiyang wrote: To those platinum players that say otherwise. Fast reality check. Check your last replay. Check at what timing you start your first drone/scv. I personally have never seen a plat make a worker and sent them within first 5 ingame seconds. Ive been a platinum aswell, as everyone and trust me, there is a HUGE difference in timings. Only by followIng a pro build first 10min u can become a diamond/low master. Even at high master level my builds are never as optimum as pros even in first 10min of game. Ok so I'm a mid plat terran. Worker built 0-1 second, 3/3 split done at 3 seconds. 15.30 minutes in I'm at 200/200. 69 workers, 6 medivacs, 7 vikings, 22 marauders, 60 marines, 2/2 upgrades one third done. Granted, this is not great. It's not even good. But I don't think plat is quite as mind numbingly bad as you seem to think. | ||
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ruiyang
252 Posts
On April 21 2012 22:04 Opec wrote: Ok so I'm a mid plat terran. Worker built 0-1 second, 3/3 split done at 3 seconds. 15.30 minutes in I'm at 200/200. 69 workers, 6 medivacs, 7 vikings, 22 marauders, 60 marines, 2/2 upgrades one third done. Granted, this is not great. It's not even good. But I don't think plat is quite as mind numbingly bad as you seem to think. Thanks for replying. I have to say, im quite suprised you did that so fast. You pull that off every game? Because so far Ive seen and coached my friends, it always started with a /sigh at the first 5 seconds of a game. Building worker between 0-1sec and splitting within 3 is imo already quite impressive for a plat, even if most ppl think its a small feat or dont see the difference at all. But the 2nd part, 15.30 is exactly the reason your probably in plat. You can max out MUCH faster. But still, if what you say is true, and thats average for a plat. then mayb I am exaggerating a bit. But tell me honestly, if you look at your replays, do you always start your worker <2seconds or are there times u are taking ~10sec+. Because I still think on average a platinum does buildorders MUCH slower, even if u give them a piece of paper with exact timings (which they will never have/use in plat, otherwise they wouldnt be there) | ||
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AdrianHealey
Belgium480 Posts
One part of my 6 pools and drone all in. That should do sufficient amount of damage so the other can just speedling all in with macro hatch. No? | ||
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Opec
42 Posts
On April 21 2012 22:08 ruiyang wrote: Thanks for replying. I have to say, im quite suprised you did that so fast. You pull that off every game? Because so far Ive seen and coached my friends, it always started with a /sigh at the first 5 seconds of a game. Building worker between 0-1sec and splitting within 3 is imo already quite impressive for a plat, even if most ppl think its a small feat or dont see the difference at all. But the 2nd part, 15.30 is exactly the reason your probably in plat. You can max out MUCH faster. But still, if what you say is true, and thats average for a plat. then mayb I am exaggerating a bit. But tell me honestly, if you look at your replays, do you always start your worker <2seconds or are there times u are taking ~10sec+. Because I still think on average a platinum does buildorders MUCH slower, even if u give them a piece of paper with exact timings (which they will never have/use in plat, otherwise they wouldnt be there) Every TvP, unless there's a lot of early agression going on. My record for maxing out with this comp is probably 15 mins or so. I'm in plat because my TvZ is horrible  90% wr in tvp and like 30% tvz.Edit: I definetly think a top player could beat two of me though. Either through heavy turtle play or with agressive harassing. Maybe not a zerg though. | ||
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Earll
Norway847 Posts
On April 21 2012 22:00 ruiyang wrote: Well just check a replay of a random pro and a random platinum. First 5 seconds my point is made. Pro makes first worker and sends workers between 00:00-00:02seconds and platinum at 00:05-00:15 seconds. Point proven. Or am i wrong and all my platinum friends dont deserve to be there? I trained many of my friends to masters, and it all starts wih acknowledging ur timings suck. Im even sure nestea has his moments that he thinks his timing shouldv been 30sec earlier. (e.g. Shit this game i shouldve had broodlords 30sec earlier, i was too slow). Because by thinking this way u get better. And because most bad ppl dont think this way they never e out of plat/diamond Really? Platinum players make and send first worker between 5 and 15 seconds into the game? Decided to look up 2 replays of my girlfriend who is mid silver, at 5 seconds into the game, all workers were at the mineral patches, and the worker had been in production 3 and 4 'seconds' respectivly. This was even in a team game where she is less likely to 'tryhard'. She has also done different things like maxing to 200/200 of 2 bases (with upgrades) which she for example did within like 15~minutes? Would a pro be able to do it faster than her, sure. But would a pro be more than 1-2 minutes? I doubt it. This being a silver player, not a platinum player. An extremely simple tactic like a proxy 2 rax or something any silver and up player would be able to pull off reasonably decent if they have tried it out a few times before. Obviously a few games might happen where they make mistakes (e.g forget a depot or something) But the norm will not as far behind a pro player as some people seem to think. Edit: tried the 'macro challenge' again for the heck of it, me maxing at like 13:30 and my girlfriend at like 15:00, me off marine\marrauder and she off marine marrauder medivac with a few upgrades. (This being done with only being allowed to take 1 expansion.) I am probably at around gold level myself though have not played 1v1\ladder in a long long time. And terran is not my main race. I am sure a platinum player would be able to do this a decent chunk better again, and after that,a pro will be able to maybe shave of a few seconds\half a minute, but not much more more. And this is to max 200/200, not to make 6 gates. | ||
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ruiyang
252 Posts
On April 21 2012 22:12 AdrianHealey wrote: I want to say that as a mid plat european times two myself I could beat someone like Idra or whatever. One part of my 6 pools and drone all in. That should do sufficient amount of damage so the other can just speedling all in with macro hatch. No? Sounds sufficient. Want to try out some games? Ur belgium, theres another dutch "nicknamed geen" that posted 1 page before that is platinum. I can play every evening between 22:30-02:00 CET (Im dutch) | ||
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AdrianHealey
Belgium480 Posts
On April 21 2012 22:25 ruiyang wrote: Sounds sufficient. Want to try out some games? Ur belgium, theres another dutch "nicknamed geen" that posted 1 page before that is platinum. I can play every evening between 22:30-02:00 CET (Im dutch) I can play tomorrow evening between 22:30 and 02:00 (I have to work tonight.) What's your league? | ||
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ruiyang
252 Posts
On April 21 2012 22:30 AdrianHealey wrote: I can play tomorrow evening between 22:30 and 02:00 (I have to work tonight.) What's your league? Placement match. Havent played actively around 3?? or more months. But I play a game now and then, or sometimes a few days with friends. My old ACTIVE league (season 4 i think?) was topmaster/low grand master. Used to play for Team Antwerp Aces (belgium team) under nickname Shinigami. Was just a noob trying to be good ^^, but like I said before, in the past I was able to win vs 2 platinum friends most of the time. Ill warm up tonight and play u 2mrw then! | ||
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AdrianHealey
Belgium480 Posts
On April 21 2012 22:38 ruiyang wrote: Placement match. Havent played actively around 3?? or more months. But I play a game now and then, or sometimes a few days with friends. My old ACTIVE league (season 4 i think?) was topmaster/low grand master. Used to play for Team Antwerp Aces (belgium team) under nickname Shinigami. Was just a noob trying to be good ^^, but like I said before, in the past I was able to win vs 2 platinum friends most of the time. Ill warm up tonight and play u 2mrw then! Sounds cool. So you'll be a terran? Does the other platinum person need to be zerg as well? Or can we mix races? | ||
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