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On April 21 2012 00:56 Inquisitor1323 wrote:
Husky and Spanishiwa in the Master vs Caster series. Husky was a mid-diamond player and he teamed up with a very hard CPU... still lost in a macro game.
The problem with that is that Husky and his teammate didn't work together (I remember the hilarious "SCAN PURPLE SCAN!!!")
If Husky was playing with a real person and decided to perhaps do some kind of super aggressive build, he might've had a chance to win.
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On April 20 2012 04:14 Felnarion wrote:
The pro would beat you at your own game. A zerg, for instance, would likely early pool and do a lot of damage to one of you by simple virtue of out-microing you. From there, they use their superior multitasking to simply beat the other guy. You'd be surprised at the level differences even among masters players, and then pros.
Think about this:
Low masters players are almost consistently beaten 1v1 by high masters players.
High masters are are almost always beat by grandmasters.
Grandmasters are almost always beaten by the tip-top in grandmasters.
And then there's another level entirely of the "super-pros" that would just demolish. They're almost super human. Think about it. Most of us could never hope to beat even a pro like incontrol. Incontrol would probably beat any one of us almost every single time. But there are players in EG, like idra, who beat incontrol every time (almost). But there's players who beat idra almost everytime too.
The point I'm making is that SC2 has more levels than most people realize. If we're talking about one of these super-pros, yes, I think he could beat two players up to mid-masters. Though I would agree he would have difficulty with specific timings, he would likely aim to cripple one of you early.
I dont think you realize how much of a skill difference there is between the gm and the master... Do you know the skill is almost the same for low gm and high master ? Or high diamond and low master ?
You are overestimating them a lot.
A super pro like Drg ? He would get his ass raped badly by even 2 High diamond European players. You can bet on it.
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2 six pools with A move will beat any player if the two people doing the 6 pool get the timings right and have an A on their keyboard.
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I dont know why a lot of people discuss scenarios where both allies make the same build. Why would you do such a thing? To get easily countered?
2x4-6rax instead of 1/1/1 with tanks and 1/1/1 hellion/cloaked banshee? Damn shame.
2x4 gate instead of immortal/zealot+voidrays?
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If the players know enough to go for a super early all in, they will win, since there is no way 1 player can hold of for example 2x proxy rax from 2 players no matter what he builds early game or how he micros.
If the players are not smart enough to realize that the earlier they attack the stronger they will be, the 'pro gamer' will have a chance depending on how bad the other players are.
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Share the unit controll to 1 player, double worker rush, profit.
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Theres a reason why people are in platinum. Many ppl dont understand that the reaso. They are platinum is simply because they dont posses the basics. Other words, a platinum 2gate is like 30sec
slower than a grandmast 2gate. A platinum 4gate is like 1min slower then a gm 4gate. A platinum 6gate is like 5min slower. Probably even more! Meaning that when they cheese or play straight the timings are so off that once a pro knows whats coming he can easily stop it and abuse the platinum players unknowings of the game.
As me, darkforce and beastyqt and many more are saying. Its possinle to beat 2 platinums. Doenst matter what strat they use, it is possible. People that say it isnt simply do not see the difference between these leaguers or are one of these themselves. I played like 100 1v2s and im certain i won more vs 2plat or lower then i lost. And im not even sub-pro. I can imagine a pro can win vs 2 diamonds now and then (not always ofc) but is def possible. THAT is how much the difference is between pro and diamond. Stop underestimating the gap.
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Why not just do a double cannon rush? Resoure sharing if necessary. (as a team)
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On April 21 2012 20:00 ruiyang wrote:
Other words, a platinum 2gate is like 30sec slower than a grandmast 2gate. A platinum 4gate is like 1min slower then a gm 4gate. A platinum 6gate is like 5min slower. Probably even more!
No, just no. I don't think you understand how much time in game 5 minutes really is. Sure they are slower but nowhere near the times you are saying. Even platinum players are capable of constant probe/scv/drone production and hitting decent timings.
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There was a video on college humor from agess ago with TorcH beating 3 other guys, but they had never played before so ya haha
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I once had the chance to play 2v1 against Vibe, with some random ally from the streamchat. With me being masters and my ally being masters as well, i must say that i was suprised to see how long he managed to hold on (that being 8-9 minutes), but even though he managed to pull of some surprising stuff, the victory was never in his reach.
I guess against masters it is not possible, but against diamond i see a big chance of him winning. With that said, Vibe is pro, but he is not of an DRG, MKP or MC calibre, so i think they would always win vs 2 diamonds.
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On April 21 2012 20:51 HopLight wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 20:00 ruiyang wrote:
Other words, a platinum 2gate is like 30sec slower than a grandmast 2gate. A platinum 4gate is like 1min slower then a gm 4gate. A platinum 6gate is like 5min slower. Probably even more! No, just no. I don't think you understand how much time in game 5 minutes really is. Sure they are slower but nowhere near the times you are saying. Even platinum players are capable of constant probe/scv/drone production and hitting decent timings.
This. Being a platinum player myself, I wouldn't be too worried about my warpgate timing and probe production, I'd be more worried about my micro and warping in stuff while in combat and not starting to float/get supplycapped while fighting.
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I doubt it to be honest. I know the way I play (decent-ish macro, really bad decision making) in high platinum and I well and truly doubt anyone could hold off 2 even halfway decent all ins. Just 2x proxy rax or a sixpool into some other shit would be almost impossible to hold.
Of course it's also really important what map and what race the pro is playing.
On a map with a ramp and pro protoss could hold on for quite a while, because of ff alone, but take somthing like tal'darim and the chances go close to zero. Also if the pro is a zerg any early all-in would be really hard to beat. Just take a terran going proxy rax and a toss 2gating and it'll be almost impossible to hold, because it hits so early you can more or less jsut a-move the zealots and marines to win.
If you didn't all-in, that's something else. I think in the midgame and early lategame a pro could win, but even a plat player can get decent army size and upgrades at 14 minutes, even with harass. Basically you either have to all-in early or just expand over the entire map and the pro will be hard pressed to do anything.
@ruiyang: That's bs, it's never 30 seconds. I timed myself against a lot of replays and even at the 8+ minute mark I'm rarely more than 10 seconds behind (without harrassment). And if you harass before a 2gate hits... well props to you, but you still wont' hold anything the second player. Your timing assessments are so off, it's hard to believe anything you say. The difference between plat and pro isn't (largely) the timing of builds; their easy to get down. The big difference is multitasking, but if you have twice as much shit, you can a-move and concentrate on not fucking your macro up.
Oh yeah, I giggled at the 5 min slower 6gate.
And jsut to be clear: I'm high platinum myself, but I only have like 200ish 1v1 wins and around 300ish team league wins.
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24 drone rush against 11 scvs? Depending on if the 2 players had played before or kind of knew about the game (also the map) but they should win.
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Nestea lost a 2v1 at MLG vs a couple of office employees.
Take that for whatever it's worth.
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There is absolutely no chance at all that a pro can win a 2v1 unless it's bronze players that don't know what they are doing.
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To those platinum players that say otherwise. Fast reality check. Check your last replay. Check at what timing you start your first drone/scv. I personally have never seen a plat make a worker and sent them within first 5 ingame seconds. Ive been a platinum aswell, as everyone and trust me, there is a HUGE difference in timings. Only by followIng a pro build first 10min u can become a diamond/low master. Even at high master level my builds are never as optimum as pros even in first 10min of game.
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This should be a challenge on GSL OTR.
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On April 21 2012 21:00 Geen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 20:51 HopLight wrote:On April 21 2012 20:00 ruiyang wrote:
Other words, a platinum 2gate is like 30sec slower than a grandmast 2gate. A platinum 4gate is like 1min slower then a gm 4gate. A platinum 6gate is like 5min slower. Probably even more! No, just no. I don't think you understand how much time in game 5 minutes really is. Sure they are slower but nowhere near the times you are saying. Even platinum players are capable of constant probe/scv/drone production and hitting decent timings. This. Being a platinum player myself, I wouldn't be too worried about my warpgate timing and probe production, I'd be more worried about my micro and warping in stuff while in combat and not starting to float/get supplycapped while fighting.
This is why ur platinum (?) u dont see urself that ur timings are off. Im not sayin this to bash platinim or lower players but because all my friends share the same problem. They are unwilling to see what they are really doing wrong. The reason why im high master is not because of my micro, but because i have proper timings and can multitask. Also you are dutch, what league are u? This theorycrafting is anoyying me, lets play 1v2 and ill break this thread or affirm ir
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On April 21 2012 21:16 Jakkerr wrote:
There is absolutely no chance at all that a pro can win a 2v1 unless it's bronze players that don't know what they are doing.
Another dutch on the same page. What league are you. Lets play this 1v2
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EPT
