EPTI know GSL isnt to blame for this. Its hard to create a perfect system. Im just coming up with some ideas.... I think adding more of a "new blood, its anyones game, any dog can have his day" element to the GSL could do it some good.
MLG for example has a open tournament anyone can compete in, and it is possible for someone from the open tournament to win the entire thing. I think that creates a element of mystique for the entire tournament that code S may benefit from trying to copy.
I think the best way to solve the code S/A "no new blood" problem some people have with it is something like the following.
Gomtv can create a 10 dollar entry online KR-server double-elimination open-tournament every season to prevent scrubs from signing up. Next, the top 16 from this tournament are not code S however they get to be seeded into the code s tournament to create a interesting "new blood" element.
What happens is code S will have its NORMAL ro32 action take place, with 16 players advancing to the ro16.
Next, those 16 players will each face off in a bo3 against one of the 16 "new blood" players". this will cause the tournament to in a sense have two "round of 32" 's. in this sense, it will make each gsl code s tournament have a chance where its completely possible for a "new face" to beat mvp in the second round of the tournament and knock him out and make it interesting.
Or you could make it so instead of top16, the top8 players from the open are seeded, and the top8 play an extra bo5 with the top8 placers.
How you determine if/how any of these new faces get code S could be difficult. In my opinion id say make it so they cant get code S in order to keep Code S feeling special. If a "new face" wins the gsl he gets to become code S, however make it so code A/MLG are still the only other ways to obtain code S (in order to make code a still be important)
This means if someone who isnt code S wants to compete in gsl code S tournaments, he has to get code s through code a, or he can pay 10 dollars and compete in the open tournament every season and try his best to get top16.
This is just one idea i had im sure there are plenty possible ideas out there.
Do you think Code S platform could stand to create some improvements so GSL can be more entertaining to the average viewer?
On September 08 2011 06:04 aisight wrote:
How would a qualifier bracket that puts people into Code S be fair in any way to the people who have to go through the massive qualifier bracket for Code A? The lack of entertainment in GSL is the system itself, which allows players to determine their own seeding, causing the most entertaining matches to happen far before the finals as well as incidentally creating very one-sided finals.
How would a qualifier bracket that puts people into Code S be fair in any way to the people who have to go through the massive qualifier bracket for Code A? The lack of entertainment in GSL is the system itself, which allows players to determine their own seeding, causing the most entertaining matches to happen far before the finals as well as incidentally creating very one-sided finals.
Im thinking to make it fair, allow ANYONE from code A to compete in this open tournament.
Make it so this open tournament lasts a few days and finishes before code A qualifiers start.
If you make top16, you know you are in the code S tournament so you drop out of attempting Code A.
If you dont make top16, you can tryout for code A of that season to try to get code s that way.
However, this could create a situation where players view the open tournament as the easier way into the code S tournament.... but i dont think so, it would simply mean if your good enough to place top16 in the open your good enough to be seeded into code s, however if your not good enough to make top16 then you gotta go through code a like everyone else.
On September 08 2011 06:17 MK4512 wrote:
EVENTUALLY, Code S will weed out every weak player, and it will become the true pinacle of competition... Just wait for a bit.
EVENTUALLY, Code S will weed out every weak player, and it will become the true pinacle of competition... Just wait for a bit.
I agree that the current code S system will work perfectly.... over time... possibly a long time.... Actually i believe code S is already clearly the pinnacle of competition.
But i also think the game and peoples skill and whats possible today is a highly volatile aspect of starcraft 2 as an esport.
Any tournament that has more of a "its any mans game, any dog can have his day" element such as seeding players from an open bracket, will allow more of this volatility to flow through into its tournament.
And i guess at the end of the day its just my opinion as to how good it is to be letting this volatility flow. Some people may think its less entertaining to let the volatility into the tournament. I feel it is more entertaining.
On September 08 2011 08:08 spicyredcurry wrote:
SO you want a qualifier to insert new blood into code S?
I believe they have something like that called code A... and that has a qualifier aswell. Making Code A double elimination would be cool but that would not be feasible.
SO you want a qualifier to insert new blood into code S?
I believe they have something like that called code A... and that has a qualifier aswell. Making Code A double elimination would be cool but that would not be feasible.
You are right in a way. with the current system, code a could be seen as a season-long qualifier to get into the next code S tournament...
I think the main possible area of improvement i see in all of this is, lets say some dude out there is extremely skilled after a few months of practice and has a few weeks of incredible genius in sc2 for some unknowable reason.
I this this is EXTREMELY hypothetical, but hear me out.
If this dude wanted to get into code S he would need to spend 1 entire season doing code A, then he would have to get far enough into code A in that season to get into up/down. Then he would have to win the up/down and he could be in code S.
So he would have to do the season-long code a which is like a qualifiers to get into the next code S
(( And winning the up/down seems kind of like a silly format given that its BO1's between top players... but thats another discussion. ))
I guess im trying to say, if this dude somehow has a flash of genius right now id wanna see that dude in the code S tournament right now, not next season. With a type of open seeding element added to the tournament, the same dude could theoretically win code S in a single season without having to wait.
however, i agree my scenario is very hypothetical... but i believe sc2 has a high level of volatility that increasing the "new blood" level of a code s tournament could give Code S even more of a highly competitive mystique because the code S players would have to be superior to eachother and be superior to any bright stars that are materializing at that very moment.
And lets say one of these bright stars does good in code A, gets into code S, then during that season loses and goes to up/down and goes back into code A. Such a person would be doing a entire codeA season to qualify for one codeS season, then after dropping out he has to do ANOTHER codeA SEASON AGAIN to qualify for 1 more code S season. And if such a bright star has a flash of genius yet again he no longer has the "chance" to win code s for that season because his only option now is to spend another season trying to qualify again.
Im not saying the dude doesnt deserve to drop out for losing his games, im just saying such a system is not too forgiving in the time-department for many pro players out there.
Also heres another way of looking at it. if a pro wants to qualify into code S he has to spend a entire long season doing code A, and then its not even a garuntee. So a pro spends like a 50 day Code A season of playing and doesnt even know after that whether or not his chance is 100% of being in the next code S tournament.
With my idea, a pro would ONLY need to spend a few days playing that open tournament, and if he places high enough in the open tournament he knows after only a few days whether or not he 100% has a spot in the code s tournament or not. Giving pro players such a quick way (however a highly competitive way) to spend a few days playing to give them a 100% yes/no answer of "you are seeded in the next code s tournament" is a great way of increasing the chances of pros from around the world trying it out.
On September 08 2011 11:32 slothpants wrote:
I might also add that if you are more interested in MLG because GSL is full of "no name" players, that's because you don't know them. I would hazard a guess that Korea, the primary viewing audience, knows them quite well.
Or, instead of complaining about that fact, be proactive and submit some articles to TL ABOUT the new Code A/Code S players so that viewers become more invested in the players. If you haven't noticed, that is a large part of the GSL/MLG exchange - getting known internationally. Before the last MLG, I doubt many people would have said Coca could compete against the people he beat. Now you know him. Same goes for Puma at NASL (or whichever he won first), etc.
Just because you are exposed to specific players more often, doesn't mean that the people you don't know aren't interesting or exciting.
I might also add that if you are more interested in MLG because GSL is full of "no name" players, that's because you don't know them. I would hazard a guess that Korea, the primary viewing audience, knows them quite well.
Or, instead of complaining about that fact, be proactive and submit some articles to TL ABOUT the new Code A/Code S players so that viewers become more invested in the players. If you haven't noticed, that is a large part of the GSL/MLG exchange - getting known internationally. Before the last MLG, I doubt many people would have said Coca could compete against the people he beat. Now you know him. Same goes for Puma at NASL (or whichever he won first), etc.
Just because you are exposed to specific players more often, doesn't mean that the people you don't know aren't interesting or exciting.
The "lack of interest" problem that i perceive might be hurting a little bit of GSL's entertainment value is not really stemming from what you describe....
However dont get me wrong, i do not think this is a gigantic problem for the GSL. I just feel that GSL's code s system could probably be more entertaining to the average viewer if it allowed for more volatility.
If i had to get to the root of it, i'd say the perceived problem that could use some fixing is not that gsl full of "no names", its the fact that gsl is all super well known players. every player in code s is among "the best" players.
Every game is "the best" vs "the best", and i know this is just my opinion but i think that allowing some "new blood" into the equation will make it more entertaining for the average viewer....
Code A requires new bloods to play a whole season before getting into a code s tournament. My idea would allow some new bloods to be placed directly into each code s tournament with only a few days of playing required to achieve a seed.
Sometimes i enjoy watching a code s player completely crush a random guy in a "game that matters", my idea would let "new bloods" face off against code s players and the code s player would give his perfect game and completely crush because he knows if he loses to this guy he is out of the tournament.
However, what if the new guy wins? holy hell. wouldnt that create some suspense, some drama, a big element of the unknown and the mysterious. such mystique and "possibility for the impossible to happen" in my opinion would make the tournament alot more entertaining to the average viewer
