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On the topic of NA-KR lag...

Forum Index > PokerStrategy.com TSL3 Forum
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 17 18 19 Next All
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-26 23:25:38
March 26 2011 23:23 GMT
#1
I wanted to re-post this here, as I think theres a lot of people talking about this that either understate its effects, or greatly exaggerate it. I posted a lot of this, but its on page 400 so......

KR playing on KR: Lan latency in SC1
EU playing on US: Low latency in SC1
KR playing on US: High latency in SC1
KR playing on EU: Extra high latency in SC1

And you know what, Id even say its a little bit smaller of a difference than that (and its actually not as bad as high latency was in SC1 at all, Im just using it for scale really).

On March 27 2011 07:58 Dingo22 wrote:
All this rage on today's victors is silly. To blame lag for MVP's loss is dumb (Adel is in France, MVP in Korea... both played on NA servers... equal lag). The same holds true in Nestea v. Goody.

Its not equal lag, the connection between EU and US is better... But its not like the lag is as bad as a lot of people are trying to make it out to be -_-;

Its gonna play a role sometimes, but if you actually practice enough on the server to get used to how the timings differ (because the timings at which you have to do certain things ARE going to differ), it can most likely become very minimal.

When people talk about latency, it always brings to mind an article or quote I read somewhere, about how what matters the most is really not absolute latency, but rather stability. As long as you can get used to it, its not gonna be too bad for your game I think.

If your first game on NA is your TSL games, then I would say its a pretty big disadvantage but its your own fault.

On March 27 2011 08:04 Logo2010 wrote:
Does anyone believe Mvp, Nestea, Genius played well today? And therefore lost straight up? Whatever about other issues. In a gaming sense, how do you account for Mvp losing a reaper and marine to probes after 15 nexus. Is that good play or bad play? Genius fighting sieged tanks and marines vs sentries. Is that good play or bad play?

Nestea banelings vs mech. Moving spinecrawlers into sieged tanks and marines? Is that good play or bad play?

Yeah to imply Goody would tear up the GSL when players like SlayersMin, Seed and Bomber aren't even in the GSL, well is that a smart statement or a stupid statement?

Grats to the winning players today but lets not go overboard. Also realise there's the GSL World Championship beginning in two days and some of the players playing today have their mind on that competition.

Didnt see MVPs games, but he does seem to have a tough time v Ps lately (1-2 alica, 0-2 genius to drop down to Code A)....

Only saw the last game for Genius vs QXC, but it seemed to me like Genius hadnt really adapted to the new patch very well (I think upgrades are a lot more important than they ever were, having a shit-ton of gas saved up for templars isnt really as good now for obvious reasons).

Missed most of game 2 of nestea vs goody, but well... He did seem to waste an awful lot of stuff, but I dont think he played so bad that you need to take anything away from Goody - Nestea doesnt play flawlessly in other games either.

As for dominating GSL, no I dont think Goody would do that - if he wins this TSL, yes we can start thinking about it but he has a lot of rounds left to go.

I mean, these are all good players that are losing, really big ones actually but... Come on, last GSL results for players in TSL:
Me: Ro16
Boxer: Out in groups, down to code A
Nestea: Out in groups, retained code S
MVP: Out in groups, down to code A
Fruitdealer: Out in groups, retained code S
Genius: Out in groups, retained code S
NaDa: RO8
MC: Won last GSL
HuK: Made code S

I think all we can take from this is that
1) SC2 is currently really volatile in terms of players form changing really quickly from day to day, and the game is perhaps not as well figured out as we sometimes like to think.
2) The guys that won played good.


Another thing I want to mention here is that when you lose in slightly laggy settings, and to make it worse, slightly laggy settings that you usually never play in... You are going to blame it on this. You are not going to go "Oh, I was off my game because IIm not used to these conditions and it got in my head".

No, you go "FUck this MOTHER FUCKING LAG, and FUCK this stupid server". And its natural, but keep this in mind when someone complains about lag. It probably did lag, and it probably did affect him a little, but as someone who at first felt that playing on the US was a complete joke, and now think its "a little annoying but mostly not game deciding"... Well, its just going to feel a lot worse than it actually was.
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
jazzbassmatt
Profile Joined August 2010
United States566 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-26 23:28:51
March 26 2011 23:28 GMT
#2
Yeah...this is a really good post.

And everybody loves Jinro so +1
Proko
Profile Joined February 2011
United States1022 Posts
March 26 2011 23:30 GMT
#3
Thanks for the info Jinro! I was glad to read about this from someone in the know. It was an exciting day of TSL and I don't want all the rage about it to take away from that!

P.S. I am a big fan!
Caster duos should compliment each others' strengths. "You look very handsome today, Tasteless."
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-26 23:32:06
March 26 2011 23:30 GMT
#4
I mean, I dont want to downplay the effects too much because when you are used to the game behaving one way and then having it behave another, everything is going to get thrown off, you will start missing depots etc... But my point is more that its possible to practice for this - I think - by playing more on the US server.

If events like this become the standard, we will probably see some better performances out of the Koreans if they take to practicing that way. How much better, its hard to say.
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
ZerGuy
Profile Joined June 2008
Poland204 Posts
March 26 2011 23:31 GMT
#5
This post was needed. Thank you Jinro, for explaining it and for being such an awesome person.
Someday ill be pro
r33k
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Italy3402 Posts
March 26 2011 23:32 GMT
#6
Please lock and stick this thread. Jinro's reputation coupled with the fact that he is in fact playing from KR is enough for his statement to be considered final.
jazzbassmatt
Profile Joined August 2010
United States566 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-26 23:34:09
March 26 2011 23:33 GMT
#7
I agree that the effect of lag is more something mentally frustrating rather than something that inherently breaks the game. It could be comparable to having just slightly different mouse settings than normal (probably even less because mouse settings are really crucial)
crazeman
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
664 Posts
March 26 2011 23:37 GMT
#8
Great post that clarifies a lot of things. Some people were randomly claiming that the earthquake in japan destroyed some internet lines so the lag for korea -> US is even higher than normal and were saying that the lag was up to 1.5 second (which is pretty impossible imo).
MrMotionPicture
Profile Joined May 2010
United States4327 Posts
March 26 2011 23:38 GMT
#9
Great point with the results of the last GSL. So true.
"Elvis Presley" | Ret was looking at my post in the GSL video by Artosis. | MMA told me I look like Juanfran while we shared an elevator with Scarlett
vdale
Profile Joined June 2010
Germany1173 Posts
March 26 2011 23:38 GMT
#10
Thank you for this post Jinro!
Darthozzan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Sweden136 Posts
March 26 2011 23:40 GMT
#11
Thank you for clearing that up Jinro, I was thinking that it could maybe explain form but looks like they had themselves to blame. A properly good and informative post as always, you are my hero, Jinro
http://complexitygaming.com ° @Darthozzan on twitter
chesshaha
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1117 Posts
March 26 2011 23:42 GMT
#12
Very nice write up. Im 100% agreeing with your points, the facts speaks itself. We need blizzard to work on supporting the competitive scene. A little tiny improvement on connection will make a huge difference in game.
"Hopefully you're not the real TLO so it's not casted" - SpecialK
Stamper
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany148 Posts
March 26 2011 23:44 GMT
#13
Nailed it!
Drake
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany6146 Posts
March 26 2011 23:45 GMT
#14
plz lock and stick

thank you jinro to make this clear sure there is lag sure it matters but it doenst make the gap from 200 vs 120 supply 5vs3 base adel vs mvp ...
Nb.Drake / CoL_Drake / Original Joined TL.net Tuesday, 15th of March 2005
schimmetje
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands1104 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-26 23:47:46
March 26 2011 23:46 GMT
#15
Thanks Jinro, excellent post. I guess any good tournament needs a little drama, but people are running with it a bit too much.

You can probably not go into this specifically, but is it safe to assume TL is in contact with Blizzard about the latency as well (this really being the first big tournament of this kind so far)? Just to cover that bit of rage over so we can go back to focussing on the games?

Which were great btw, ffwd to tomorrow plz.
Change to MY nostalgia? UNACCEPTABLE! Monkey paaaw!
seanisgrand
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1039 Posts
March 26 2011 23:46 GMT
#16
Thanks for the great insight. This should really squash this discussion. Yes lag sucks, but there was plenty of opportunity for the players to prepare and adapt for the situation.

This is well below quality expected of a post in any forum. -Empyrean
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States13957 Posts
March 26 2011 23:47 GMT
#17
Jinro has spoken I feel unworthy to say other
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
Absolutionn
Profile Joined October 2010
United States512 Posts
March 26 2011 23:47 GMT
#18
Very good post, people are too often inclined to jump to conclusions about the lag when they havent really experienced it themselves. This provides some good firsthand info.
Jinro | Idra | Qxc | Select
Ryusei-R1
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States2106 Posts
March 26 2011 23:48 GMT
#19
The amount of profanity used makes me laugh so much.

But it's a really good insight from a pro player, not some random people, that makes the analysis actually worth something.
Jaedong plz
ZeraToss
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany1094 Posts
March 26 2011 23:48 GMT
#20
like i said before in the TSL thread, he is right
"Personality should be irrelevant. This is a computer game tournament, not a dating show." EGIdrA on "introduce yourself and say something about your personality" Idra <3
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