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On the topic of NA-KR lag... - Page 5

Forum Index > PokerStrategy.com TSL3 Forum
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 17 18 19 Next All
mufin
Profile Joined May 2010
United States616 Posts
March 27 2011 01:17 GMT
#81
but... but.. that means Koreans aren't better than foreigners...

+ Show Spoiler +
DOES NOT COMPUTE
I only make 5 actions per minute. But since I use all my time deliberating and planning, my 5 actions are so brutally devastating that children cry out and grown men weep.
vx70GTOJudgexv
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States3161 Posts
March 27 2011 01:19 GMT
#82
On March 27 2011 09:48 CoFran wrote:
If lag was such an issue for KR->US, I think korean teams could invest some of their income to get a business prioritized ISP with a good routing to US west and EU.

KT has MPLS for example, its probly not cheap but with 10ish Code A/Code S crushing thru foreigners tournaments 24/7, its peanuts to pay.


It's an issue with the B.net servers, not their ISPs....
(-_-) BW for ever. #1 Iris fan.
BluemoonSC
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
SoCal8910 Posts
March 27 2011 01:20 GMT
#83
plus, lets face it..nestea's game 3..he was attacking thors and letting siege tanks in the red have a field day with his roaches. im no master's leaguer, but even i know that was sloppy play and had nothing to do with lag. plus, his roach speed was finishing as the big push was commencing..waaaay too late considering the amount of roaches he had on the field. and dont even get me started on the creep spread..

note that i am a HUGE nestea fan and this disappointed me greatly, but as a fan i recognize that this had everything to do with a few mistakes adding up to cause him to lose. such is life and starcraft. better luck next time. nestea fighting!
LiquidDota Staff@BluemoonGG_
The_Piper42
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States426 Posts
March 27 2011 01:21 GMT
#84
Thanks Jinro you're definitely the right one to make this post having played all of these connections. If only someone could get this thread onto PlayXP and GOM...
Boxer, White-Ra, Grubby, Flash fighting!
Kahuna.
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada196 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-27 01:25:33
March 27 2011 01:25 GMT
#85
On March 27 2011 09:15 TheBJ wrote:
qxc played amazing , and so did adel ( altough mvp wasnt at his best for sure ). Stop taking credit away from the players.

Agreed. I would add Goody to that list as well though. Phenomenal play by the foreigners.
"Sorry, I'm allergic to bullshit."
JayConn
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States408 Posts
March 27 2011 01:29 GMT
#86
Thank you Jinro. Good to hear something from someone with actual credibility.
CoFran
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada342 Posts
March 27 2011 01:30 GMT
#87
On March 27 2011 10:19 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2011 09:48 CoFran wrote:
If lag was such an issue for KR->US, I think korean teams could invest some of their income to get a business prioritized ISP with a good routing to US west and EU.

KT has MPLS for example, its probly not cheap but with 10ish Code A/Code S crushing thru foreigners tournaments 24/7, its peanuts to pay.


It's an issue with the B.net servers, not their ISPs....


what? how is it an issue with bnet servers?
Jakkerr
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands2549 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-27 01:32:25
March 27 2011 01:32 GMT
#88
On March 27 2011 08:30 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
I mean, I dont want to downplay the effects too much because when you are used to the game behaving one way and then having it behave another, everything is going to get thrown off, you will start missing depots etc... But my point is more that its possible to practice for this - I think - by playing more on the US server.

If events like this become the standard, we will probably see some better performances out of the Koreans if they take to practicing that way. How much better, its hard to say.


I guess you pretty much stated one of the problems there.
I dunno if you have any real info about this but I don't think the koreans practiced on the NA server or EU server for this tourney?
archlol
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden12 Posts
March 27 2011 01:32 GMT
#89
Blizzard should implement an option that allows players to choose if they want to have as close to the same ping at all times so that both have the same delay, this does bring with it a whole load of problems though but would probably make it "more fair", at least in some aspects. No idea if it's possible to implement such a thing though.
kheldorin
Profile Joined April 2010
Singapore539 Posts
March 27 2011 01:32 GMT
#90
On March 27 2011 09:42 Jibba wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2011 09:33 kheldorin wrote:
Then I don't understand how Ace was so consistent in IEM. He was undefeated in group stages and went on to win. If the game and the players are as volatile as you seem to think it is, shouldn't he have lost more games?

If Koreans are consistently better in a LAN setting while the rest are better when playing the in these higher-lagged conditions, then the only conclusion one can derive is that lag does play a huge factor.

.
By this logic, Ace should have gone undefeated in GSL too and would've had no problem qualifying in the past.

He hit a good stretch of play during that weekend, likewise oGs TOP hit a bad stretch when he went to Dreamhack and fizzled out with his teammate.


Ace loss twice in a row in GSL. It's consistent and not volatile. It just furthers proves my point.

You're saying everyone has equal skill. What matters is their form? And it's just a coincidence their form sucks when playing in an online tournament but not in a LAN tournament? The thing is audiences aren't interested in knowing about a players' form but how good they actually are. As they say "Form is temporary but class is permanent".

IMO, oGs Top didn't hit a bad stretch, he was outplayed.
cujo2k
Profile Joined October 2007
Canada1044 Posts
March 27 2011 01:44 GMT
#91
On March 27 2011 10:19 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2011 09:48 CoFran wrote:
If lag was such an issue for KR->US, I think korean teams could invest some of their income to get a business prioritized ISP with a good routing to US west and EU.

KT has MPLS for example, its probly not cheap but with 10ish Code A/Code S crushing thru foreigners tournaments 24/7, its peanuts to pay.


It's an issue with the B.net servers, not their ISPs....

O_O pretty sure it's an ISP related problem. A korean posted that most korean ISPs are routed through Japan in order to get to US, but some are routed through China instead, so they'd probably have a better connection.
THE ANSWER IS 288
Catch]22
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Sweden2683 Posts
March 27 2011 01:45 GMT
#92
Jinro, such a well spoken and cheerful guy, lycka till!
Tula
Profile Joined December 2010
Austria1544 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-27 01:49:51
March 27 2011 01:47 GMT
#93
kheldorin: are you honestly arguing that your daily form doesn't have an influence on how you play?

Ace had a killer streak going during IEM. He played in top form, and won convincingly. But during his GSL matches he didn't play nearly as good and as a result he lost.
Frankly a single tournament is never enough to really judge how good a player is. We've had a ton of players who won a single event while they were in top form and then fizzled out, the true masters are those who can achieve similar results consistently. So far we haven't had a single player achieve that, the only one who comes close has been MC, but frankly even he has only played at his best for 4 months now and in that period he also dropped some key games.

Regarding your point about audiences being interested only in true skills compared to daily performance, i'd really like to know what you are thinking of. Do you ever watch any sport at all? Pretty much all you can see as an audience is how good they are playing at that specific day, nothing more nothing less. The decision how good someone really is (as you phrased it) is always done over a longish period of time instead of a single event.

Remember the worldcup where zidane made a really stupid mistake in the final and got thrown out of the game. If you go by "class" he'd still be a top player, but if you go by "form" then his form cost his team the game (debatable), so for almost any sport audience the form while they are playing is far more interesting than some theories about who is better on paper.

(edit) regarding the bnet servers being an issue, the server is exactly the same for both players, the only difference is their routing to the server. Honestly that is not a problem you can blame on Blizzard.
CaptainFwiffo
Profile Joined August 2010
United States576 Posts
March 27 2011 01:48 GMT
#94
On March 26 2011 16:08 oGsMC wrote via twitter:
today TSL My gaming MInd Shock! i think Korean progamer better than forienger progamers but today i played FX Open & seeing TSL
forienger progamers rank upgrade.. i need practice ^^

I don't see MC blaming things on lag, for what it's worth.
"Even though they don't drink milk, milk comes out of their nose, disturbingly." - Tasteless
tuestresfat
Profile Joined December 2010
2555 Posts
March 27 2011 01:51 GMT
#95
so... foreigners ARE better than koreans???

thanks for the post jinro :D:D
Skyze
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada2324 Posts
March 27 2011 01:53 GMT
#96
Its kinda stupid the community REQUIRES such an obvious post from Jinro before anyone can start thinking clearly again..

the game lagged, sure.. but did it change the outcome of the game? No. They just played bad. The koreans who won, played good. End of story really.
Canada Gaming ~~ The-Feared
cuppatea
Profile Joined April 2010
United Kingdom1401 Posts
March 27 2011 01:57 GMT
#97
Is it possible that the lag from the oGs house is less severe than from other team houses, perhaps using other ISP's?

I mean, I'm watching oGsZenio and oGsSuperNova play pretty well in the FXOpen, whereas MVP and MKP are microing their units on the NA server like they're playing SC2 for the first time.

Would the latency you (Jinro) experienced playing against Morrow in the TSL explain MVP's inability to kite slow zealots with marauders or probes with reapers? Or Genius throwing down forcefields seconds after the army he's trying to trap has already retreated?

MVP's micro against Adelscott was SO bad (as in legitimately not even diamond level) that it looked more like "it's impossible to control my units" than "I'm playing with a slightly higher latency than usual."
Golgotha
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Korea (South)8418 Posts
March 27 2011 01:59 GMT
#98
JINRO I salute thee
BlueNox
Profile Joined March 2011
6 Posts
March 27 2011 02:01 GMT
#99
It seems that Blizzard should be able to equalize lag btw EU and NA as compared to btw KR and NA. If they use a server in California to host the game, it is about equidistant from Seoul and mainland Europe (Seoul to LA is 5956 miles and Paris to LA is 5661 miles, so there is minimal distance difference to affect signal travel time). If they used a server on the East Coast of the US the signal travel time would be drastically different- perhaps that is part of the problem? (I realize there are a million other variables, router delays, etc).
Maurader
Profile Joined March 2011
2 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-27 05:13:02
March 27 2011 02:03 GMT
#100
I'm going to get banned again, but this post is worth it. I love jinro and am a huge fan, but jinro knows what effect lag has on the game as evidenced when he played vs select in the gcpl. These are the jinro quotes after that game, when lag wasn't as bad as it was pre earthquake. Jinro doesn't know how bad the lag was for these players, since he wasn't actually sitting with them when they played, but does know the frustration it causes to himself to deal with lag.

Also tyler knows how lag effects the game as well cause shortly after the earth quake he was playing on korean server. He was in a base trade with a zerg and lost and then even he acknowledged that the lag was terrible and the reason he lost.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=189994&currentpage=28#548

On February 04 2011 16:03 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Microing vikings in lag is a fucking joke --


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=189994&currentpage=29#564

On February 04 2011 16:19 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 04 2011 16:10 gaston116 wrote:
On February 04 2011 16:03 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Microing vikings in lag is a fucking joke --

What did you think of SjoWs play?

Uhm, he played fine of course? Its not like I went into either game expecting anything else. Select played great, but its fucking annoying to play vs the way he plays when it lags this much. Its like, in perfect situations his playstyle is annoying to deal with, then you add lag and it makes you want to kill yourself.



http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=189994&currentpage=29#574

On February 04 2011 16:30 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 04 2011 16:27 Ezze wrote:
On February 04 2011 16:10 gaston116 wrote:
On February 04 2011 16:03 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Microing vikings in lag is a fucking joke --

What did you think of SjoWs play?


Ouch man. But yea I kind of agree. I didn't see any lag issues in the first game. I would probably give some credit to SeleCT there Jinro instead of blaming the loss on lag.

Lol, why do you think it took THREE scans to kill 1 banshee in the first game?

That doesnt mean I think they are bad, but theres just no way Im going to beat a player who is as good as me in this lag --

Im not gonna lie and say "oh the lag was fine", that doesnt mean they didnt play good and might very well have won anyways.

I can also mention that a big reason I won game 1 was because my hellions luckboxed and saw his dropship going out.

Making excuses sucks, it makes you look terrible but I m too frustrated to not bring it up. Yes, I knew it was gonna lag when I agreed to play but that doesnt change anything about how you feel after games like these.


User was banned for this post.

Mod note: he wasn't banned for the criticism, he's banned for stating he will be banned. Anytime a user "martyrs" he is automatically banned.
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