EPT<3 Jinro
On the topic of NA-KR lag... - Page 4
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Snickersnee
United States241 Posts
<3 Jinro | ||
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SovietHammer
United States166 Posts
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Bleb
Croatia278 Posts
I don't think I've ever seen so many missed forcefield. Had he used them better I'm sure xelnaga game would be totally different. (please notice how he lost his first exp... wtf) Pheonix micro was off, storms were late, unit control was poor... yes, his gameplan was horrible, upgrades nonexistant and exps awfully late but still lag issues were noticeable. Clearly he didn't spend much time practicing on NA ladder (if any) but at the end I feel like lag is tainting awesomeness of this tournament. Not by much but with TL we're used to perfection ; ) ! | ||
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Torpedo.Vegas
United States1890 Posts
As an aside, it is nice to see how active you have remained on the forums with all this considered practice/GSL wise. Kudos to you good sir. | ||
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kheldorin
Singapore539 Posts
If Koreans are consistently better in a LAN setting while the rest are better when playing the in these higher-lagged conditions, then the only conclusion one can derive is that lag does play a huge factor. . | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
Interesting to see that out of all the Koreans and Korean-trained foreigners, only MC and Boxer have gone past the first round thus far. Perhaps foreigners have a chance after all! However, MC is still looking quite formidable... It really looked like Nestea, MVP, and Genius were very unprepared for their matches, both in latency-tolerance and play-style. From the interviews and the games themselves, it seemed like they weren't taking TSL as seriously as the non-Koreans. Heck, comparing QXC's essay-length responses to Genius's one-liners gave me some worry that the Koreans may have been lacking in motivation and time. Then again, IM is fresh off of a week of GSTL, so it's understandable that Nesta and MVP may not have had time recently to prepare for the TSL latency. | ||
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adRo.
Australia243 Posts
Quoted for truth. Every tournament is different. Thus requiring different practice, and if part of practicing for the TSL requires you to play on a different server, then you do it. And yes, this can sometimes be an unfair advantage, but things like this are unavoidable on an international level with todays technology. | ||
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archdevilz
91 Posts
taking turns to lag ( switching servers ) isn't really the best solution as well when players have to adapt strategies due to the inability to micro, (think i remember MC mentioning about doing specific stuff so he doesn't need to micro as much as he couldn't) then the game isn't played at it's finest hope there's some day where technology allows near 0 lag | ||
NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
I know the skillgab between Koreans - even TOP Koreans and TOP foreigners might not be huge, but there certainly is a skillgap. I'm not saying a Korean can't lose to a foreigner but as you stated in your opening post playing from KR to US is like high latency in Starcraft 1. Now I do remember my Starcraft Broodwar days and if I remember playing on iCCup and then switching back to normal battle.net even with low latency .. it was terrible. Now you are saying it feels like high latency which would be ridiculous. Thats just my 2 cents as I'm not taking away credit from really good performance of the foreigners but I can certainly understand a bit of frustration when players can't perform to their best because they can't play under best circumstances. Same on LAN when players would need to use different equipment than they would usually do, different chairs, etc pp! Hopefully no one takes this as offence. | ||
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MHT
Sweden1026 Posts
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On March 27 2011 09:33 kheldorin wrote: By this logic, Ace should have gone undefeated in GSL too and would've had no problem qualifying in the past.Then I don't understand how Ace was so consistent in IEM. He was undefeated in group stages and went on to win. If the game and the players are as volatile as you seem to think it is, shouldn't he have lost more games? If Koreans are consistently better in a LAN setting while the rest are better when playing the in these higher-lagged conditions, then the only conclusion one can derive is that lag does play a huge factor. . He hit a good stretch of play during that weekend, likewise oGs TOP hit a bad stretch when he went to Dreamhack and fizzled out with his teammate. | ||
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Yurie
12098 Posts
On March 27 2011 08:23 Liquid`Jinro wrote: When people talk about latency, it always brings to mind an article or quote I read somewhere, about how what matters the most is really not absolute latency, but rather stability. As long as you can get used to it, its not gonna be too bad for your game I think. This is so true. Spikes kill gaming much more than high latency ever does. My experience about this is mostly from DotA where it isn't as sensitive in most cases. 250 ms b-net is fully playable, takes ~2 games to get used to it from the sub 100 ms of host bots or garena. You can feel the difference and alternating between them isn't that easy, but it does work. Then you get a game with spikes or varying latency and you guess timings and guess wrong mostly. Mostly those games are from my connection having issues and the ping jitter being as high as the ping. | ||
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CoFran
Canada342 Posts
KT has MPLS for example, its probly not cheap but with 10ish Code A/Code S crushing thru foreigners tournaments 24/7, its peanuts to pay. | ||
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CodECleaR
United States395 Posts
<3 | ||
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Seiyu
Brazil2 Posts
Here in Brazil the delay is like 150ms, because the servers are actually in USA, you'll know what's is lag when you press a key to update your building but it's1.5 sec to it actually happen's, then you'll move your camera to another place but when you back to your building you'll see that nothing happened to your build, because there where another action in the queue and then the instability of the internet, because of the delay, makes a conflict of actions. I don't want to flame non-korean players, but you guys must know that LAG actually does a lot of difference in an PRO match as the gap between players aren't that mutch as JINRO stated. | ||
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Resilient
United Kingdom1431 Posts
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drgonzhere
United States447 Posts
Come on guys lets not take anything away from the players who won today. Just because we might be mad about liquibets and the like doesn't mean we have to be jerks to the players who won. Rally behind Jinro and approach this rationally! | ||
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butter
United States785 Posts
On March 27 2011 08:23 Liquid`Jinro wrote: Its not equal lag, the connection between EU and US is better... I wonder about this. I can think of two different effects that might be happening. I haven't made any measurements, so this is mostly speculation. 1) A steady connection is possible, but the achievable latency is lower in one direction than the other. Let's say that the path Player #1 → Server → Player #2 takes 500ms, but Player #2 → Server → Player #1 takes only 300ms. Since the gamestate proceeds synchronously, we might expect, and it would seem fair, that both players would experience identical latency. Also, since both players usually play with low latency, in a cross-region match they will both feel that there is high latency. But suppose the game takes advantage of the asymmetry to try to give each player the best possible latency. Then Player #2's commands will take effect 300ms after they are issued, while Player #1's commands remain in the pipeline for 500ms. Even though both players perceive events happening at the same time, Player #2 will be able to react faster. There are several reasons why such a situation might arise. Perhaps packets simply take asymmetric routes of different lengths. Alternatively, perhaps the minimum latency is the same in both directions, but for one direction there is greater variance. Then the game chooses a higher latency which is more reliably achievable for that direction. If this were true, it might be exploited by a player who intentionally delays incoming packets from the server so that their opponent will experience higher latency. 2) The latency varies during the game. In BW, "lagging" was quite noticeable as the game stuttered when packets didn't arrive on time. Selecting a higher latency would often smooth things out. In SC2, this control has been taken away from the players and put into a black box. While the automatic system does take care of this scenario, it seems that there is another mechanism for smoothing over intermittent bumps. Occasionally the game will freeze for one player while the other is apparently unaffected. When it resumes, the game must catch up to the present gamestate, like fast-forwarding through a replay. The game remains synchronized; it's just that one player was unable to properly control their forces for a moment. If the duration of the interruption is short enough, they may not even notice. | ||
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EdSlyB
Portugal1621 Posts
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Char711
United States862 Posts
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