EPTOn the topic of NA-KR lag... - Page 2
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nekuodah
England2409 Posts
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ConsummateK
United States98 Posts
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Kazeyonoma
United States2912 Posts
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Barbiero
Brazil5259 Posts
Thank you mr Jinro. | ||
NonY
8751 Posts
The only raw disadvantage imposed on the Koreans is a reaction time that simply cannot be overcome. If they need to react to something by 1000ms, and they are able to react in 900ms, and their latency is 150ms, then they fail and it's not their fault. It's the latency's fault. If their latency is 60ms, then they succeed and everyone is happy. These situations were extremely rare today. For the most part, we saw players who were very unfamiliar with the latency and obviously experiencing a general feeling of discomfort and perhaps frustration that starts affecting all aspects of their play. Better preparation would have prevented this. Also I know for a fact that TSL staff recommended to the Korean players that they practice a bit on NA to accustom themselves to the latency. They even offered guest accounts so that neither the Koreans nor their teams would have to purchase NA accounts (though I think it's clear that NA accounts would be a good investment for KR players). | ||
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rixaN
United States12 Posts
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imjorman
United States580 Posts
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NonY
8751 Posts
(editing this in to my other post) | ||
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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
deL: What are your views on foreign/non-Korean players in general? What are the major differences, where do foreigners lack, and where are they strong? ZephyrPrime: I think they are very good at macro things but little bit bad at micro control than Koreans. While they have good strategies, they lack of multi-control. But Koreans are very good ad micro, multi-control, so I think that is the major difference between them. I think the Prime coach's explanation of the difference between Koreans and foreigners explains what happened quite nicely. Both sides had some lag (Koreans slightly more as Jinro explained) so the game came down to strategies over micro and the foreigners delivered. | ||
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Hellspawnl
Sweden103 Posts
A huge factor also I think is that the Koreans have a hard time to get replays and info of the players. I assume they are not used to find intel on foreigners. I actually think most of them haven't even made any special preparation like changing their training pattern specifically for TSL. I know for sure that the Swedish players have invested quite a lot for this and players like Tyler who really puts a lot of effort into this benefit tons. I do think that after this first round that the Koreans do realize that they have to prepare more in the same way as they do for a GSL-match. This is based on assumptions but the combination with not being used to the ping difference is affecting the outcome slightly. Still I'm extremely impressed by the performance especially against the Koreans and no it wasn't a big upset to me that some of them got defeated considering the situation. | ||
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RiGun
Argentina155 Posts
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Phaint
Canada211 Posts
On March 27 2011 08:51 Liquid`Tyler wrote: Better preparation would have prevented this. I think this is the point we need to hit home. I get the feeling that most of the Koreans came to play the TSL thinking it was a "walkover" at least in the first round (read: MC's TSL interview). Very few of these players probably prepared for the names they were playing, and seemingly not on the North American server. Who's fault is that? Its theirs. They lost because of this. But its a loss, and nothing should be taken from the winners. They did indeed beat the GSL Champions that played. Those GSL champions agreed to the terms of the tournament and played as hard as they could. When IdrA or whatever have a big tournament, they go practice on the server that they need to practice on to prepare. Preparation is key. If you look at the FXOpen, many koreans toppled European and North American players. What does everyone expect? TeamLiquid is supposed to fly all these players to a studio? If they were to do that then most of these players wouldn't even be able to take part in the tournament. I'm severely enjoying the tournament, the games, the match ups, the upsets and thats all that matters. | ||
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emperorchampion
Canada9496 Posts
On March 27 2011 08:51 Liquid`Tyler wrote: I 100% agree that if they played a bunch of games on NA leading up to their matches, they would have performed much much better. Becoming familiar with the latency is very important. Expecting one reaction time from the game and getting a different one will mess up micro more than having a slow reaction time. When expectations are in sync with what's actually happening, the player can be comfortable and play pretty damn well. The only raw disadvantage imposed on the Koreans is a reaction time that simply cannot be overcome. If they need to react to something by 1000ms, and they are able to react in 900ms, and their latency is 150ms, then they fail and it's not their fault. It's the latency's fault. If their latency is 60ms, then they succeed and everyone is happy. These situations were extremely rare today. For the most part, we saw players who were very unfamiliar with the latency and obviously experiencing a general feeling of discomfort and perhaps frustration that starts affecting all aspects of their play. Better preparation would have prevented this. Also I know for a fact that TSL staff recommended to the Korean players that they practice a bit on NA to accustom themselves to the latency. They even offered guest accounts so that neither the Koreans nor their teams would have to purchase NA accounts (though I think it's clear that NA accounts would be a good investment for KR players). Do you know if they took advantage of this? As an aside, it may be difficult to get the proper training off of a guest account (unless they were a borrowed account at Masters League, and not just a guest pass). In any manner, I wouldn't be surprised at a general lack of preparation from the Koreans heading into TSL3. I doubt they put the same stake into a "foreign" tournament as they would into a Korean one. Hopefully once they realize that we are actually at their level in a lot of cases this will change  | ||
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Aerox
Malaysia1213 Posts
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SoBeDragon
United States192 Posts
A: The Koreans are better players and the best Koreans have the higher seed and latency advantage on the best international players so the top Koreans will probably dominate the tournament. heh, couldn't help but re-read Idra's interview after seeing this. Thanks Jinro & Tyler for your insight. =D | ||
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
we'll seeif he wont ra will clean the floor with him (sry to say but ciara was no real enemy) i would like see taylors post in jinros 1st post cause its so damn well too !! look fxopen mc lose 0-2 vs cloud, marineking 0-2 vs socke, and inca 0-2 vs cruncher and 1-2 vs naugrim that shows you .. theres no skill gap ! at least they should train more also look what jinro said ... expect MC nearly all of the invites was 1. round out or even went down to code A (expect jinro and mc i think?) for me it also seems that Boxer seemed to be a bit more prepared, and nightend totaly missunderstand the lag issue while playing no attack whole game style and lost in 1 big fight while others try to make nonstop action | ||
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sc2olorin
292 Posts
Because if they had ample warning ahead of time that lag would be involved, then they could have done what most of the foreigners have been doing for the past few weeks and practiced on foreign servers to familiarize themselves with the latency. But just from reading the comments Koreans have been leaving regarding the TSL, it just seems that Koreans in general are very ignorant of the way lag and latency work, so I believe the top Koreans in the TSL may not have had the knowledge necessary to know that practicing on the US server would have been so crucial to their success. All that said, though, I want to take nothing away from the foreigners who beat these Korean giants, as they did it primarily with strategy and tactics from what I watched, so placing too much importance on the latency is being unfair to these guys. EDIT: Just read Tyler's post above mine, which he made while I was typing this up. So that definitely shows that Koreans HAD the forewarning and just didn't take advantage of it. Though I do think perhaps a general lack in understanding of the effects of latency could be to blame for why they didn't heed the warning. | ||
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Baltor
United States171 Posts
It's also very nice to get the insight of a player who's obviously had experience with these issues before. Thanks for clarifying things, Jinro. | ||
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strength
United States493 Posts
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underdawg
United States399 Posts
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