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On March 27 2011 09:20 NickLee808 wrote:
When I play on a router shared between two other people streaming Korean dramas at the same time, my lag gets HORRENDOUS. That, and my computer can barely run the lowest settings to begin with. These two factors make it absolutely impossible to micro my Sentry force fields because my computer freezes up the second before a big engagement and doesn't unfreeze itself until after my entire army disappears.
I'm not trying to go against what you said though, because as long as I have the router all to myself and as long as I can win the early game (when our armies are still small), everything flows smoothly. My force fields still come out on time, even when I get the "waiting for sever" screen.
This should probably be discussed in greater detail in another thread, but I needed to comment on this.
As we know, upload/download bandwidth coming in your house is capped. You have two others in your house who are streaming Korean drama. As you've experienced, when these are streamed, your bandwidth goes bye-bye, because there's nothing in place(in your house) to govern how much should be allocated towards the streams. Hence the streams will just go as fast as they possibly can - choking your gaming bandwidth.
Here's what you need to do.
First, calculate your determine your maximum bandwidth. I use speedtest(speedtest.net), and run the bandwidth test. In my case speedtest has determined that I have 16Mbps download, and 0.75Mbps upload.
For my example, I decided that I would allocate 1.5Mb download and 0.20 upload for my user, leaving me with the lion's share of the bandwidth, ensuring that my gaming needs would not be interfered with, over streaming.
Next, head over to http://www.dd-wrt.com/site/index and immediately check to see if your router is covered under the firmware here. If so, you can update the firmware on your device and immediately start configuring the upload/download limits. And for those of you who say "duh, configure QoS, it's on every router known to man, duh" actually - have YOU done it successfully?
The upload/download limiter seems to apply to the entire device. You cannot seem to set the limits per port - but I'm told if you pay for a different release of the firmware, you can set per-port limiters. I did this instead:
Internet <-> Router1(for my use) <-> Router2(DD-WRT firmware for the users)
As you can see above, the two routers are daisy chained. I'm hooked up to Router1, and the people who I enforced bandwidth limits on, are connected to Router2.
This guarantees that, no matter what they may be doing, whether it be streaming, gaming, torrenting, they only ever go so fast, and by your limits.
You don't want to configure port-based QoS. It doesn't work very well. Let's say you prioritize Battle.net ports and de-proritize say, web surfing - sounds logical, right? I've found that in practice, it doesn't work very well.
Any questions I would love to elaborate and also provide some screenshots for anyone who wants more details.
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France12911 Posts
Veir you don't really know what you are talking about, the mag was visible
I said it, NASL proves it it lags a lot so koreans should stop playing online tournaments but there is so much money (and not enough tournaments in korea) that I'm sure they'll continue to participate  . Too bad we can't play cross-servers with a good latency.
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On April 14 2011 21:06 Velr wrote:
I agree that the Top Koreans in general are a little better. But i doubt they have put in the same efforts a some/all of their opponents have... TSL is just not the same for them as it is for "us".
Where did you see lag?
Fruitdealer got trashed on all levels.
Nestea fell to a nice attack in Game 2 and lost due to bad decision making/overcomitting in Game 3. That can happen to everyone at anytime anywhere.
Nada vs TLO? That Banshee disagreed with it being laggy.
Nada vs Kas? Kas was just way better.
Genius? At least the second game was lost due to his build and the phoneix play did not indicate any sort of lag? Why would he even bother with such a Micro heavy build if he felt lag in the first game?
MC? MC doesn't care, MC does win. But he can drop games to foreigners, if he can drop games, everyone can drop games and everyone can lose a series..... Sooner or later :p.
All these games did not look as if they were influenced by lag...
The biggest diffrence probably is:
TSL for most foreigners = Valhalla.
TSL for Koreans = Online-Tournament with a nice pricepool.
Meh im of the opinion where small moments in a game where it seems like their isnt lag isnt indicative of lag for the whole game and vice versa with lag. I always bring this up but people still try and treat lag like it is a stable entity wich it is not. For instance against qxc sometimes genius's forcefields were spot on, indicatings very little lag or alot of foresight into where the army was going to be positioned. Other times you could see the forcefields were easily almost a second late. People seem so 1 minded about either there is lag or there isnt, why cant we treat lag like the unstable creature that it is.
Edit: also id like to say during that nada game, that was one of the worst instances ive seen of a pro gamer playing poorly in a tournament of any kind offline or online. Nada did so many things that were very uncharacteristic for him, he got around 40 supply behind with no engagements, they got their second bases at the same time yet nada was 11 scv's behind within 6 minutes after they got their expansions, He was queuing up units 4 deep at his barracks and making 4 supply depots at a time fairly early on in the game. There is no way nada was just playing like this, there was obviously some external circumstance factoring in to the way he was playing, my best guess is lag when it is played from replays you wouldnt beable to notice if their was any lag but im sure if it was casted live it would be easy to tell that he was lagging pretty badly. I think thats the thing alot of people forget , TSL is cast from replays therefore if there is any lag you wont notice it during the casted games.
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On April 15 2011 08:11 Poopi wrote:Veir you don't really know what you are talking about, the mag was visible I said it, NASL proves it it lags a lot so koreans should stop playing online tournaments but there is so much money (and not enough tournaments in korea) that I'm sure they'll continue to participate . Too bad we can't play cross-servers with a good latency.
Yea the lag in NASL has been pretty bad so far, even playing from the OGS house it seemed to be lagging at times for OGSensnare and sometimes it seemed okay, i didnt really see him do any stutter step kiting though it seemed like he was trying to avoid it , i really noticed it when ogsensnare was movecommanding his army into incontrols army, not saying that incontrol for sure would have lost (he probably stilll would have won) but its really hard to tell exactly how much the lag is affecting the koreans in these tournaments, all we know is that it is defenetly present at some points during the games and sometimes it is negligible other times is quite severe.
Also like someone said earlier, Jinro was on his stream and the korean server went down and people were telling him to play on NA server and he refused to play as , the lag was too bad and he didnt feel like playing in those conditions.
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Lag isn't that big of an issue in my eyes anyway. People will get used to it, and even if it keeps happening it's not like it just disconnects mid battle or freezes for minutes at a time. or even goes a frame a second.
And above all. There really isn't much people can do about it.
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Really awesome, I was so hoping one of the TL players actually living in Korea and playing on Bnet in international tournaments would make a no-conjecture post about the actual conditions. I think the most important thing you pointed out was that as long as the lag/delay/whatever you want to call it is consistent, you can learn to expect it and work around it.
On a more opinionated point, I kind of get the feeling many of the top Korean stars didn't really take the international competitors seriously going into the TSL. Obviously I couldn't possibly no for sure, but I do wonder if some of them kind of assumed they would win regardless of what the lag would be like and so didn't make a point to get used to playing cross-continents. However, with the TSL results, the ongoing NASL results, and most importantly the internationals vs Korean tournament results, my hope is that that opinion will be changing!
Oh and one last thing: GO JINRO! Man I was so hoping you were going to take the GSL last season especially after seeing Mvp and MKP get knocked out so early (I say that because it seems like their TvT is pretty beastly). Keep owning man... and I actually didn't know your English was this good 
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One other thing I kind of wanted to say (not sure if anyone even reads replies this far into the thread, tbh), but I think this could be considered a much bigger issue if the Koreans vs International tournament had gone differently. I mean, if the Koreans just dominated the International team, there could definitely be arguments for lag being a huge issue in their play in other tournaments. However, I think the international players proved that they are on par with the Korean pros. Also, no disrespect intended, but that really wasn't even the very best international players. Some of them were, of course, but there were a handful of guys that didn't REALLY deserve to be there. Again, obviously there's lots of circumstances to consider, I'm just saying...
I guess the final point I'm trying to make with all of this is that we shouldn't be just EXPECTING Korean pros to dominate foreign pros any longer.
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I think boils down to some basic things. Lag in any multiplayer game is undesirable period, and forces you as the player, to do things in advance, in order to compensate for the lag.
The lag won't affect you if the actions that are demanded of you aren't as micro-intensive as Player B who is required to micro in order to even the score. Did you see marine stutter-step in Nada's game? It wasn't there, because it simply wasn't possible, or the difficulty skyrocketed in trying to do the same thing on a sub-100ms connection versus a 500ms or greater one.
In a laggy game it's to your benefit to play in such a way where you know that your opponent's micro is going to be lacking. Where you might not have gone void rays, go right ahead, because you know that his vikings are not going to be able to kite them. The gameplay swings in such a direction where, all these fancy micro tricks aren't going to be there. I daresay that the balance also shifts because of that as well. If a marauder can never kite a zealot due to lag - well - things sure change now, don't they.
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It's a little sad to say this but lag in the big SC2 online tournaments is actually good for esports outside of Korea. Most people who watch the stream don't really understand how lag can impact the result of the game so when they see their hometown players beat top Korean players, they get more interested and the scene grows at the result. Bigger interest from outside of Korea is good for everyone including the Korean players. I think many of the top players and commentators realize this and that's why they are reluctant to address the issue. There is a reason why all the big video game tournaments (not just Starcraft) are played live, not online.
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Germany148 Posts
Wow, BoxeR really showed great micro this round. Running into storms where ever he could, EMPing 3 colossi instead of the whole zealot ball. And letting half of his army run into the protoss ball without sending them back.
Lag never seemed more obvious in the TSL3 than in this series.
Don't want to take anything away from Hasu, but you could practically feel the lag.
User was warned for this post
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On April 25 2011 06:03 Stamper wrote:
Wow, BoxeR really showed great micro this round. Running into storms where ever he could, EMPing 3 colossi instead of the whole zealot ball. And letting half of his army run into the protoss ball without sending them back.
Lag never seemed more obvious in the TSL3 than in this series.
Don't want to take anything away from Hasu, but you could practically feel the lag.
Im honestly amazed someone felt the need to bump this even though its been discussed to death just because they want to make excuses for their favorite players. Dont you have anything better to do?
If you'r wrong, its just a terrible trollbait. And even if you're absolutely right in everything you say.... so what?
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Germany148 Posts
It just makes me sad for TSL, cause it makes so many supposedly awesome series onesided, boring and hurtful to watch.
It just bothers me how much potential is wasted this way. I don't care so much for the results, as long as i can see good games.
Edit: But i guess you're right, it was discussed enough. I'll keep it for myself next time.
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You can definitely see the presence of lag through the TSL. It's pretty sad too, because these amazing Korean pros are falling and these "rising stars" are somehow succeeding. Blizzard needs to fix their servers(along with other things...).
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EPT
