|
This replay pack has 9 replays from custom and ladder games using the ling/bane style of play against Protoss. The build I use in them is not very refined as I've only been using this style for about a week now, but they are a good indication of how you can utilize high mobility units to abuse the Protoss' immobility.
If you would like some more analysis of this style you can check our MrBitter's 12 Weeks With the Pros cast with me filling in for a very busy iNcontroL here: Week 7: A New ZvP Style with Aquanda
The premise of this build is using low cost units in order to maximize your larva production by having more hatcheries than you would going roach, and therefor a potentially higher drone count earlier into the mid game. As displayed in several replays, early pressure is no harder to defend using ling/bane that it is using roach, and gives you the option of a potent counterattack due to the fast speed of Zerglings.
Since some Protoss players have asked me how to deal with this I'll simply suggest DT into Archon which will take back map control temporarily from the Zerg, as 2 base Templar is a risky move and will get rolled with a simple Roach switch. Proper scouting and adjusting your unit composition to the Zerg is essential in order to apply pressure successfully.
Aquanda ZvP Replay Pack
I also stream and cast games with my friend tGPrax occasionally, you can follow me at http://www.justin.tv/aquanda
|
<3<3<3
You're the man, Aquanda. :D
|
going to look through this, thanks aquanda
|
absolutely killer ling/baneling build. i havent found a protoss on ladder that can stop it short of really really fast stargates (if scouted in time, queen at every hatch is nice :3] thanks for posting the replay pack, i pm'ed you eariler and i knew you would deliver!
also, wanted to edit a cool protips i found in when using this build.
bait forcefields if he tries to early pressure off a sentry expand. he only has so many forcefields that early.
backstab, if wants to attack your third, use lings to attack his natural.
macro hatches, i usually get one after my second is saturated because lings are cheap as hell.
upgrades, lots of them. +1 is important.
don't skimp on banelings.
(most of this can be learned via mrbitters 12 weeks video, but not all of us have 1/2 hours to watch it)
gg gl hf all!
|
Thank you so much for the reps. Cheers~!
|
United States2095 Posts
Thanks for posting some replays man. Keep up the hard work!
|
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL. i just watched the one vs taylorswiftfan. i love the offensive gg. that ruled dude.
|
Thanks so much for releasing this Aquanda!
I've been looking forward to it since I watched the show on 12 weeks and started playing with it. Just had a few questions from watching the replays except those against kcdc. Save those until after tonights 12 weeks episode is complete.
1. Any thoughts on pulling drones off gas earlier? Say 14 pool, 14 gas, pull 2 drones off gas at about 80 since you seem to get ling speed later? I was thinking any excess minerals from a hatchery block can go into the second queen/drones.
2. Are there any triggers for when you get your baneling nest? In some games, it wasn't until after the 4th hatch (seemed to be mainly against stalker heavy compositions) and sometimes it is before the 3rd hatch (zealot heavy games it seems).
3. Have you had any experience trying this in ZvT? I've seen posts here and there about it being effective against T as well but I'm not sure how it seems quite susceptible to hellions.
Thanks again Aquanda!
|
Awesome Aquanda !! Thanks for this man !!
|
Ideally I'd like to get the 100 gas early just in case it's close position and I'm scared of early pressure, in which case I'd delay my second queen and get speed faster. Lately I've just been getting used to using a build I'm not familiar with so my tendency is to just go through the motions to acclimate myself. I think to streamline the build I would get my gas after I start my hatchery, but there are many ways Protoss can abuse a late gas build by Z if they scout it.
You would have to reference specific games for me to answer this correctly, but some things which make me build the baneling nest later would be: I know the player is passive and I won't need early banelings for defense; he is going for a super fast nexus with few units, so I can either make a baneling nest and try to win early (not my style) or use that money for something else and delay my baneling nest. Generally if I see him making a healthy army size while he's expanding I will get the baneling nest at the normal time (before 3rd hatch).
I haven't tried this much in ZvT simply because it's much harder to predict what the Terran is doing, and most Terrans are opening with Rax/Gas builds which tells me just about nothing. I think against 2 Rax play it can be very effective, but I just feel like the presence of Muta on the map gives you both the information and pressure you need to choose your tech path.
|
nooooooo ><
As grateful as I am for you to release these reps, I'm sad that this will allow more P to dissect and eventually find a way to play against it.
Haha at least i'll be able to look at the different ways you adjust to other openings now ^__^
ty ty heaps
|
First off, I LOVE this build and its idea of actually swarming something with lings (its about time  ). But I have a couple of questions:
1) How does this build deal with blink stalkers, won't the stalkers be able to kite the lings until they reduce them to insignificant numbers?
2) How does this build deal with the current popular VR-Collosus deathball off 2 or 3 base? Is it possible for you to get a replay of this?
|
Mmm thanks for sharing ill have to take a look especially after seeing it on bitters stream. Im critical of it currently, but maybe i can be won over 
|
On March 01 2011 15:02 darkrage14 wrote:First off, I LOVE this build and its idea of actually swarming something with lings (its about time ). But I have a couple of questions: 1) How does this build deal with blink stalkers, won't the stalkers be able to kite the lings until they reduce them to insignificant numbers? 2) How does this build deal with the current popular VR-Collosus deathball off 2 or 3 base? Is it possible for you to get a replay of this?
One base or two? One base is retardedly hard to stop no matter what build you choose, and two base comes late enough where you can simply overwhelm the stalkers with +1/1 lings.
It depends on the opener from Protoss and how the mid game plays out. Once you scout that he's going for VR/Collosus ball expand like crazy and build up a large Corruptor ball while getting tons of ling/bling and eventually ultra. This ball is also very vulnerable to base trades, since he can't simply split half his army in order to save his base - it's all or nothing. You can overdrone in this situation because the goal is to engage with ling/bling/corruptor and because ling/bling is much cheaper than roach/hydra you will have more gas to spend on corruptors, which is what you really need to deal with the ball.
|
On March 01 2011 15:02 darkrage14 wrote:First off, I LOVE this build and its idea of actually swarming something with lings (its about time ). But I have a couple of questions: 1) How does this build deal with blink stalkers, won't the stalkers be able to kite the lings until they reduce them to insignificant numbers?
I played against a 4 gate blink stalker build just a little while ago on Xel Naga which this build crushed.
I went for the standard third hatch at around 7min into +1 mass speedling once I scouted the blink stalker and cut drones around 28. The third hatch really helped with production.
|
This build seems to have a big window of vulnerability to pressure that hits around the 8 minute mark or sooner.
Have you tested this against a protoss who fakes a 3-gate expand into a zealot heavy 4-gate?
|
On March 01 2011 16:35 kedinik wrote:
This build seems to have a big window of vulnerability to pressure that hits around the 8 minute mark or sooner.
Have you tested this against a protoss who fakes a 3-gate expand into a zealot heavy 4-gate?
If the Protoss hasn't expanded (as in built the Nexus) by ~6:00 you need to sac an overlord, build defenses, and stop drone production. I have a lot of experience playing with standard Roach play and that fake FE into 4/5 Gate rush is deadly no matter what build you use.
|
Good to know, thanks man. I'll try this out
|
On March 01 2011 16:35 kedinik wrote:
This build seems to have a big window of vulnerability to early zealot pressure, when you're spending lots of money on drones and hatches, and you don't have roach tech or very many larva yet.
Have you tested this against a protoss who fakes a 3-gate expand into a zealot-centric 4-gate? That seems like it would pose the biggest problem.
Every build has a weakness, which is why I am constantly aware of what's going on below the Protoss ramp. If he isn't building a nexus what units does he have that I can see? How many? Is he chronoboosting his Cyber nonstop? I only build my 3rd hatchery at another base once I've seen the Protoss expand, and even then I'm keeping an eye on how many units he's producing. The 'Huk' style 3 gate FE into pressure is pretty common so as long as you notice he's delaying tech in order to produce more units you can adjust your army size accordingly (or just pool some larva since you have enough hatches to do so).
On a map as big as Xel'Naga if you see him coming at you with a 4 gate sized force you morph as many banelings as possible and make some spines. You can delay with lings long enough for the spines to finish and after that it's a matter of time before his force will die to ling/bling.
|
Sorry about the confusing edits; I figured that your first response answered both versions of my post pretty well, so I changed it back to what I originally posted.
It's definitely a general problem, the fake expand into 4/5 gate.
I have the most trouble, regardless of build, when they seem to gear up for an all-in but instead expand 1-2 minutes late. And then I have some defenses, a low drone count and a big army that can't really attack into their army. Ah well.
I'll keep your advice in mind and try it out.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
