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Active: 1173 users

Renewal of Zerg Style

Forum Index > BW General
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Muhweli
Profile Joined September 2002
Finland5328 Posts
June 01 2004 19:20 GMT
#1
I have a lot of time at my hand now that I'm working so I decided to spend my worktime in a good way. I hope someone has the effort to read what I'm about to write here... blabla. Ookay, so here goes.

New generation of spellzergs
Well I was playing other day and I started wondering about the uses second most (or most) underused unit of the game. Queen. For some time now I've been wondering how they could be meld into the modern zergstyles to make it most efficient. Ensnare is probably the best queen spell on general level while broodlings are good for zvt and zvp. Parasite of course is everyone's friend and in zvp it rocks even more because there's no real way to heal it from archons or such. So anyways, I did a bit of a research and tried out an ums map & stuff and here's what I got.

Queens in Zerg versus Terran
I made not so reliable tests with hydra&queen vs m&m. I tried with micro and without micro and the result was surpricingly nice. When fighting against m&m, ensnare seemed to give an advantage to the zerg around 40%! Which lead to fact that queens are useful when their cost is less than the 40% (maybe 30% if we don't want to be too optimistic) of the troops at use. Getting two queens with ensnaretech costs 50 (drone) + 150m100g (queens nest) + 100m100g (ensnare upgrade) + 200m200g (2 queens). So this totals 500minerals and 400gas. Let's say that's the 40% of the troop cost, you only need to have roughly 750 mineral and 1000gas troops (which you'll probably have as a zerg, somewhere around midgame) to make it efficient.

The research is of course not accurate and the % aren't guaranteed, but if this could increase efficiency by 30% or more, wouldn't it be worth trying?

Queens also gather the total of 100 energy in the time it takes to update both ensnare and broodling. Using ensnare on the bunch of marines would make their stimpack useless (someone tell how much more efficient are marines exactly [how big addition to rate of fire and speed?]).

Sooo basically teching to queen when you have around 10 mutas or around the same amount of hydralurk resourcevice, it might be worth it to tech to queens. Queens are also a long term investment and killing down tanks with broodlings is priceless and sweet though it takes quite some time to load. But just with two queens you can ensnare whole bunch of m&m.

Teching to queen also allows many possibilities to continue from. You can go fast hive or you can play macro zerg and expand more. The queen cost is also pretty much the same which the cost would be to tech to drops, so it might be used as an alternative too.

Queens in Zerg versus Protoss
Another matchup which is just crying out for queens! Rarely seen used in the progamer circles (besides used by Sinji_NT) queens would be a VALUABLE asset in zvp. Ensnare on speedlots, goons and archons renders them helpless vs masshydra. Defending protoss' templars will get broodlinged and even though there are many ways of having querillawar vs a protoss, this might just be one of the most efficient. Snatching of templars, parasiting archons and ensnaring everything else would give zerg a clear edge over his opponents.

Also as Tsunami has stated when he still was around, defilers are so underused in zvp. Using plague on protoss units and building takes away something like 70% of their effectiveness (excluding archons).

Queens in Zerg versus Zerg
Also a matchup which could use some renewing. The uses of queens could be many in this matchup. Ensnaring opponent mutas so that you could attack his expo or ensnaring a part of them so the other part would get raped. Parasites might also be a good idea but wouldn't probably be good enough reason alone to tech to queen. And muta count again should be high enough before even trying.

It would also allow a smooth pass to hivetech and devourers which are the best comeback unit if you're losing and airwar. Also a good guarantee that you won't if you're winning.

Some more thoughts, and bad sides
Using queens makes the requirements for multitasking higher and harden the micro you must use. Often when playing pimp and using queens, the normal part of the game is forgotten and the queens get too much attention. This is because people are not used to them. In ZvT, use of defilers is becoming more and more popular and people are feeling comfortable with it and can continue on playing normally with them. Getting queens into the game would really spice it up a lot and make zergplay more efficient and funnier to watch.

ps. I was originally going to detail a strategy I planned with the queens but I'll probably post it later. Afterall I'll be working the whole summer :D I hope at least someone finished reading this...

pps. And OH I know this should go to strategy forum but I hope it's not moved there just yet. -.-v
River me timbers.
IndexFing
Profile Joined May 2004
100 Posts
June 01 2004 19:24 GMT
#2
excellent read.


now how about ghosts + lockdown? :D
emerton
Profile Joined April 2004
Norway167 Posts
June 01 2004 19:25 GMT
#3
i think that this game is so old and has become so streamlined that if something isnt used there is a reasen to it.
Muhweli
Profile Joined September 2002
Finland5328 Posts
June 01 2004 19:26 GMT
#4
This old post is unavailable due to an encoding issue. Please contact an admin if you would like this post restored for historical reasons.
River me timbers.
Muhweli
Profile Joined September 2002
Finland5328 Posts
June 01 2004 19:28 GMT
#5
Actually it did not turn out to be as good as i would've hoped but it's probably because i'm too tired or something. =]
River me timbers.
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
June 01 2004 19:28 GMT
#6
:D
Queens and guardians=sexy ^_^
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28792 Posts
June 01 2004 19:31 GMT
#7
this thread has my approval

also I love finnish, what does that mean?
Moderator
Taguchi
Profile Joined February 2003
Greece1575 Posts
June 01 2004 19:32 GMT
#8
but so many strats nowadays are timing based strats, getting queens or spellcasters faster will get u killed by a timing attack

so imo this is all late game ways to better ur chance at winning good ways to say the least, of course, might work early to mid game but ud need special circumstances there, a bit of an advantage from early game perhaps..
Great minds might think alike, but fastest hands rule the day~
Muhweli
Profile Joined September 2002
Finland5328 Posts
June 01 2004 19:32 GMT
#9
Drone, thx =] I'll have sex with you in the WCG then.

It means hmmn "Nose to the butt!" or sumthin' like that.
River me timbers.
Muhweli
Profile Joined September 2002
Finland5328 Posts
June 01 2004 19:34 GMT
#10
On June 02 2004 04:32 Taguchi wrote:
but so many strats nowadays are timing based strats, getting queens or spellcasters faster will get u killed by a timing attack

so imo this is all late game ways to better ur chance at winning good ways to say the least, of course, might work early to mid game but ud need special circumstances there, a bit of an advantage from early game perhaps..


You have a point with the timing there, but who says you can't have good timing with the queens. It just needs some practice and many failed attempts. Also, I don't think most people even knew how to react to such originality.
River me timbers.
Emlary
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
China3334 Posts
June 01 2004 19:36 GMT
#11
On June 02 2004 04:20 Muhweli wrote:
Queen. For some time now I've been wondering how they could be meld into the modern zergstyles to make it most efficient.


once muhweli label himself as sacrificing zerg, but now i prefer the nick "modern zerg"
No more SKT1, it's SKP2.
distant_voice
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
Germany2521 Posts
June 01 2004 19:36 GMT
#12
good ideas, although they're not really new.
There's already an Art Terran and an Art Protoss (Boxer + Nal_Ra), it's time for an Art Zerg. Yellow, read this and pull something cute out of your ass! Once the koreans do it, everybody'll be doing it.

One shouldn't put too much emphasis on Parasite. That's just a bonus imo. Especially Ensnare in ZvsZ is something worth trying. The other stuff is probably gonna work as well but ZvsZ is sooo boring right now. Time for Drone to unveil his secret new strat.
This is my truth, tell me yours!
Taguchi
Profile Joined February 2003
Greece1575 Posts
June 01 2004 19:36 GMT
#13
aye maybe it'll work, dunno since ive not really seen it NOT work gogo tryout~
Great minds might think alike, but fastest hands rule the day~
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28792 Posts
June 01 2004 19:36 GMT
#14
sorry muh but you can't compete with one of your fellow finns
Moderator
Muhweli
Profile Joined September 2002
Finland5328 Posts
Last Edited: 2004-06-01 19:42:26
June 01 2004 19:38 GMT
#15
On June 02 2004 04:36 Liquid`Drone wrote:
sorry muh but you can't compete with one of your fellow finns


[edit] Oh my dear lord! I totally read you wrong there. Missed that "one of" ;D Aqrash will be the only one to bring be trouble and he's going down baby, he's going down! FOR DEATH AND GLORY!
River me timbers.
emerton
Profile Joined April 2004
Norway167 Posts
June 01 2004 19:41 GMT
#16
This old post is unavailable due to an encoding issue. Please contact an admin if you would like this post restored for historical reasons.
Muhweli
Profile Joined September 2002
Finland5328 Posts
June 01 2004 19:43 GMT
#17
This old post is unavailable due to an encoding issue. Please contact an admin if you would like this post restored for historical reasons.
River me timbers.
emerton
Profile Joined April 2004
Norway167 Posts
June 01 2004 19:48 GMT
#18
:D
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28792 Posts
June 01 2004 19:54 GMT
#19
oh now I was more talking about the sex at wcg part

but anyway lets not go offtopic and stop with the non english flaming
Moderator
Muhweli
Profile Joined September 2002
Finland5328 Posts
June 01 2004 19:56 GMT
#20
On June 02 2004 04:54 Liquid`Drone wrote:
oh now I was more talking about the sex at wcg part

but anyway lets not go offtopic and stop with the non english flaming


I bet u mean clawson... ooooooooooookay let's get back to the topic of the day
River me timbers.
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