On April 30 2013 18:40 zatic wrote:On April 24 2013 00:25 zatic wrote:
There are hardly any reliable troop numbers to go by. My estimate :
North: 18k - 2k (ruse) + Freys - losses + Riverrun
We don't know how many troops Riverrun contributed
We don't know what happened to the Frey troops after Robb crossed Walder Frey over the wedding
We don't know anything about their losses after the initial 2k sacrifice other than that the Lannisters take more
Easiest would be to say Riverrun contributed enough to compensate for the losses, so still around 18k left
Lannisters - significantly more, but never really specified, and confusing troop mentions
Initially, they have 60k troops, of which Tywin and Jamie command 30k each.
Tywins host never does any considerable battling until the blackwater other than massacring the 2k Robb sends to their death.
Jamies host lays siege to Riverrun and is then taken by surprise by Robb. We only hear that this was a spectacular success for Robb, so we can assume huge losses to he Lannisters (+Jamie gets captured). Also those 30k are never mentioned again, so they are dead / prisoners / scattered.
They have reinforcements in the West that Tywin assumes can not hold against Robb, so probably significantly less than 20k
They are constantly mentioned to take way more losses than the Starks, and Robb wins every battle against them ("5 dead for every 1 of ours")
Also being harassed by the brotherhood, although that probably doesn't impact the numbers much
I would give them an initial 60k total (-20k dead / scattered at Riverrun) - unsure number of losses = between 30k - 40k left
Iron Islands - about 6k
Said to have 300 ships. Going by Theons ship 20 men per ship = 6k men. We can assume that all their sailors are fighters too.
Tyrell - virtually no numbers, or confusing ones
Littlefinger mentions them having "the largest army after Lannister and Stark". This makes little sense since Renly's initial host is supposed to be 100k, which is Tyrells and Stormlands combined (- Stannis).
Stannis - initially has the bigger part of the Royal fleet, which is supposed to be smaller than the Iron fleet (and not all fighters) + the hired pirates.
He probably has some Stormland troops loyal to him over his brother as well
Let's say he has about 8k initially. He takes over Renlys troops after Renlys death.
The real question is how the 100k in Renlys army are divided into Stormland and Tyrell loyalists. We can only say that Tyrell has at least half or more, since the Tyrell part + the Lannisters beat the Renly part + Stannis at the blackwater.
If we say they split 50/50 and then meet again at the blackwater:
We know "thousands" would die on the assault on the city alone.
We have little information on the losses after the Tyrell + Lannister army arrives. We can assume from Stannis fanatacism that he wouldn't retreat before another couple of thousands fall. Let's give Stannis 15k losses and the Tyrell army 10k. Stannis can also only retreat with the ships he has left. We don't know what happens to his men who surrendered, let's just assume they are sent home (may be drafted into Tyrell / Lannister, but that would have been mentioned). If we say he loses half his fleet he can take 4k back to Dragonstone.
Totaled that would leave:
Lannister: 35k
North: 18k
Tyrell: 40k
Stannis: 4k
Greyjoys: 6k
Dany - we have numbers!
8000 Unsullied
Unspecified number of untrained Unsullied, let's say 1000
About 40 Dothraki, mostly useless
1 hot interpreter
1 badass Joah Mormont
1 certified super badass Barristan Selmy
3 child dragons
However, of course Danys army is HUGELY better than the thousands of drafted peasants the rest has, even without considering the dragons. The unsullied would most likely cut through Westeros armies twice their numbers. Also: Barristan Selmy.
Also worth considering:
Wildlings: "hundreds and thousands"
There is little we know about them other than they count about 100k or more. It is unclear if that includes women, children, elderly. We know the women fight too though.
The Watch: About 700 left
Maester Aemon says there is "less than a thousand of us now". Mormont takes 300 beyond the wall, most of which get killed.
The ones killed are also mostly rangers, so the most able fighters of the Watch are gone.
Updated troop numbers from S03E05: North: 18k - 2k (ruse) + Freys - losses - Freys + Riverrun - Karstarks
We don't know how many troops Riverrun contributed
We can assume the initial Frey troops went home after the Robb wed Talisa
We don't know anything about their losses after the initial 2k sacrifice other than that the Lannisters take more
Easiest would be to say Riverrun contributed enough to compensate for the losses, so still around 18k left
Karstarks march home with "half their forces". This is really confusing as it doesn't make sense that one lesser lord controls half their troops. Maybe he meant half their forces currently
at Riverrun, so he would still have the Bolton garrison at Harrenhall. If we say he split up, half his forces at Harrenhall and other places, half at Riverrun, and of those Riverrun troops half march home with Karstark: He took a significant hit, about 5k gone.
Lannisters - significantly more, but never really specified, and confusing troop mentions
Initially, they have 60k troops, of which Tywin and Jamie command 30k each.
Tywins host never does any considerable battling until the blackwater other than massacring the 2k Robb sends to their death.
Jamies host lays siege to Riverrun and is then taken by surprise by Robb. We only hear that this was a spectacular success for Robb, so we can assume huge losses to he Lannisters (+Jamie gets captured). Also those 30k are never mentioned again, so they are dead / prisoners / scattered.
They have reinforcements in the West that Tywin assumes can not hold against Robb, so probably significantly less than 20k
They are constantly mentioned to take way more losses than the Starks, and Robb wins every battle against them ("5 dead for every 1 of ours")
Also being harassed by the brotherhood, although that probably doesn't impact the numbers much
I would give them an initial 60k total (-20k dead / scattered at Riverrun) - unsure number of losses = between 30k - 40k left
Iron Islands- about 6k
Said to have 300 ships. Going by Theons ship 20 men per ship = 6k men. We can assume that all their sailors are fighters too.
It is possible that Theon was given one of the smaller ships so maybe they have more, but very unlikely more than 8-9k.
Tyrell - new numbers, but confusing ones!
Littlefinger mentions them having "the largest army
after Lannister and Stark". This makes little sense since Renly's initial host is supposed to be 100k, which is Tyrells and Stormlands combined (- Stannis).
Lady Olenna: "12k infantry + 1800 cavalry + 2000 support". This seems really, really low. Maybe she was just talking about the troops currently guarding the capital? Some 16k total would be ridiculously low considering what we know about the Renly / Lannister troops.
Exact Tyrell numbers remain a mystery and we can only assume the number given in the show are incomplete.
Stannis - initially has the bigger part of the Royal fleet, which is supposed to be smaller than the Iron fleet (and not all fighters) + the hired pirates.
He probably has some Stormland troops loyal to him over his brother as well
Let's say he has about 8k initially. He takes over Renlys troops after Renlys death.
The real question is how the 100k in Renlys army are divided into Stormland and Tyrell loyalists. We can only say that Tyrell has at least half or more, since the Tyrell part + the Lannisters beat the Renly part + Stannis at the blackwater.
If we say they split 50/50 and then meet again at the blackwater:
We know "thousands" would die on the assault on the city alone.
We have little information on the losses after the Tyrell + Lannister army arrives. We can assume from Stannis fanatacism that he wouldn't retreat before another couple of thousands fall. Let's give Stannis 15k losses and the Tyrell army 10k. Stannis can also only retreat with the ships he has left. We don't know what happens to his men who surrendered, let's just assume they are sent home (may be drafted into Tyrell / Lannister, but that would have been mentioned). If we say he loses half his fleet he can take 4k back to Dragonstone.
Totaled that would leave:
Lannister: 35k
North: 13k
Tyrell: 40k
Stannis: 4k
Greyjoys: 6k
Dany - we have numbers!
8000 Unsullied
Unspecified number of untrained Unsullied, let's say 1000
About 40 Dothraki, mostly useless
1 hot interpreter
1 badass Joah Mormont
1 certified super badass Barristan Selmy
3 child dragons
However, of course Danys army is HUGELY better than the thousands of drafted peasants the rest has, even without considering the dragons. The unsullied would most likely cut through Westeros armies twice their numbers. Also: Barristan Selmy.
Wildlings - "hundreds and thousands"
There is little we know about them other than they count about 100k or more. It is unclear if that includes women, children, elderly. We know the women fight too though.
The Watch - about 700 left
Maester Aemon says in S1 there is "less than a thousand of us now". Mormont takes 300 beyond the wall, most of which get killed. The ones killed are also mostly rangers, so the most able fighters of the Watch are gone.
Jon claims there are 1000 guarding Castle Black alone. Given the troops numbers we learned about before we can only assume he is lying at this point.
The show continues to give us nonsensical, confusing, and contradictory troops numbers. This is a best effort to give a total of all parties.
EPT
