On June 04 2013 22:28 TSORG wrote: riverrun numbers seem low to me.
It is basically a random number in the low thousands, as the show doesn't give us any idea how strong Riverrun was at the beginning or how much they lose / where their troops are allocated to.
I might as well have put 5k there but at this point we just have to wait for further figures as the show progresses.
Arent the Umber forces (Stark bannermen) still in the Riverlands to free them from Lannister occupation? Or did they return to the main army before the red wedding? I guess it doesnt really matter but its still a few thousand (1-4k maybe?) men loyal to the North.
Mormont is a Northern House too, they are there when Robb is declared king. As is House Reed (Jojen/Meera's house).
On June 04 2013 22:28 TSORG wrote: riverrun numbers seem low to me.
It is basically a random number in the low thousands, as the show doesn't give us any idea how strong Riverrun was at the beginning or how much they lose / where their troops are allocated to.
I might as well have put 5k there but at this point we just have to wait for further figures as the show progresses.
Arent the Umber forces (Stark bannermen) still in the Riverlands to free them from Lannister occupation? Or did they return to the main army before the red wedding? I guess it doesnt really matter but its still a few thousand (1-4k maybe?) men loyal to the North.
Mormont is a Northern House too, they are there when Robb is declared king. As is House Reed (Jojen/Meera's house).
Yeah but those forces (and their leaders?) were most likely with Robb at the wedding, werent they? It was only shown that Greatjon Umber (the guy who got his finger bitten off by Robb's direwolf) was sent away to free the Riverlands. So it's likely he took his men and did what Robb wanted, meaning he wouldnt be at the wedding but somewhere in the riverlands.
On June 04 2013 23:30 aseq wrote: Anyone else who thought the fight with the 3 in Yunkai was actually pretty bad? It looked like a beginner's martial arts dance. Especially the guy with the spear, he'd wait for 2 seconds before actually thrusting it near the enemy's body. Here at 1:25
I actually thought it was pretty cool and unique, especially Daario's stance and posture in battle.
It gave Grey Worm a bit of an identity while fighting. I felt it emphasized that his style (and presumably the rest of the unsullied) went for slow, precise and hard shots rather than quickness. He also used his shield quite a bit in battle, which probably helps him guard during his slow attacks. (I mean it's not practical, but that's the way I rationalize it. Styles>efficiency/practicality for me in artistic performances)
Daario was really cool the whole battle though. It was like he didnt even give a fuck.
Man as soon as that cello/violin started playing after the doors shut I knew they were all going to die.
Arya has way too much potential and cool lines now to be killed off. Bran is still a newb and still needs to come into his own with his power so he won't die soon either. Jon Snow just narrowly missed death but now he's got a crazy ex hunting him down, but I suspect he has more stuff to do before he dies. I think that the little kid brother is going to die, and so is the wildling woman, though I've come to like her more and more.
On June 05 2013 00:21 pyrogenetix wrote: Man as soon as that cello/violin started playing after the doors shut I knew they were all going to die.
Arya has way too much potential and cool lines now to be killed off. Bran is still a newb and still needs to come into his own with his power so he won't die soon either. Jon Snow just narrowly missed death but now he's got a crazy ex hunting him down, but I suspect he has more stuff to do before he dies. I think that the little kid brother is going to die, and so is the wildling woman, though I've come to like her more and more.
On June 04 2013 18:04 Emix_Squall wrote: Womb stabbing was really disturbing IMO. Quick questions to all you americans out there:
What's HBO's position as a TV Channel and how much can they be influenced? What's the general feeling in the US about strong violence (I think we can call this scene strong violence right?) in television?
Don't get me wrong I totally love the show and really enjoyed this episode but I must say, even being used to seeing violent stuff, the womb stabbing moment was particularly horrible. I'm just affraid HBO might have gone a bit too far with this episode, and I sincerely hope they don't get censored or pressured to make more consensual content for the rest of the show. What makes GoT great, probably as a book (haven't read it), but here, mainly as a show, is that' they're not affraid to tackle our preconceived ideas of a good storyline. Hope it stays that way :D
EDIT: and wonderfull directing work deciding not to put any music during the credits, this his so crucial in digesting this WTF moment ...
It's HBO, which means it's no holds barred as far as what they choose to show. Their position as a premium channel is that they charge extra for special content, which can include very sexual or violent content, which isn't found on basic TV channels. The government can't force them to make the scenes less violent or more pleasant. They might be influenced in that direction if, say, a large number of viewers inform them of their displeasure and threaten to stop viewing. But they definitely won't be censored just for violent scenes. So I wouldn't worry about the show being censored or forced to change, so long as the viewers are still watching. The only thing that could influence them is viewer numbers I think.
In the US we have quite a lot of exposure to strong violence in movies and television, so it does not bother us on the whole. Certain individuals may be repulsed by various violent movies/shows/scenes, but overall, we have a lot of violence exposure. Paying for the premium content of HBO implies even more violence than is normally shown on public TV and basic cable, so the expectation for violence/sex/language is already higher with a mature HBO show.
Finally, to comment on the actual violent scene this week, my thoughts are basically that while it was unpleasant, reality is worse. Yes, the womb stabbing was brutal, but it's the type of action that happens everyday in the more tumultuous areas of the world. If the creator wants to generate shear hatred in the audience toward the Freys, let him paint the Freys as evil slaughterers of babies in wombs, and killers of families. We shouldn't be shocked by that as gratuitous and something out of place in reality, because in reality in the truly twisted situations we do see this sort of depravity, which makes us want to see it end even more. I think the scene gives us strong reason to crave revenge against the betrayers, and it doesn't do so in a half-assed, fairy-tale way.
On June 04 2013 23:30 aseq wrote: Anyone else who thought the fight with the 3 in Yunkai was actually pretty bad? It looked like a beginner's martial arts dance. Especially the guy with the spear, he'd wait for 2 seconds before actually thrusting it near the enemy's body. Here at 1:25
I actually thought it was pretty cool and unique, especially Daario's stance and posture in battle.
It gave Grey Worm a bit of an identity while fighting. I felt it emphasized that his style (and presumably the rest of the unsullied) went for slow, precise and hard shots rather than quickness. He also used his shield quite a bit in battle, which probably helps him guard during his slow attacks. (I mean it's not practical, but that's the way I rationalize it. Styles>efficiency/practicality for me in artistic performances)
Daario was really cool the whole battle though. It was like he didnt even give a fuck.
The thing that I felt was the weirdest thing about Grey Worm's style was how much he spun the spear. Now, I'm not a spear master or whatever, but I'm pretty sure you don't need to spin your spear after every action you do...
That scene was really cool otherwise though, 3 different styles fighting together.
The reason this show may well become one of the best shows ever made, is because of its willingness to sacrifice characters for a compelling plot. like Satire outlined here:
Debatable whether it's a shit series. While I can understand that some people get joy out of fiction in different ways, it's not as if this is out of the realm of possibilities. First examine the timeline:
1) Robb was named King of the North 2) Robb needed the bridge - in exchange he agreed to marry Frey's daughter 3) Robb captures Jamie 4) Robb meets nurse lady (future "wife") 5) Robb's Mom frees Jamie (who at this point has murdered one of his bannerman's sons - the future head of his house - ie: future) 6) Robb marries nurse lady
Now think at this point, you've basically seen the head family pursue their own selfish goals over the good of the very people fighting for them. Their men start to naturally lose faith...
7) In an act of revenge and selfishness, the Kastark bannerman kills some Lannister boys out of frustration. 8) Said bannerman gets executed by Robb for being selfish - thus Robb protecting Justice 9) Robb goes back to Frey, agrees to marry another one of his bannerman to Frey in exchange for an army (this is MORE than he asked the first time)
Up to these events, Robb has really not made great decisions. His sense of duty for his country men is actually quite poor. Both him and his mother have put their own desires and family first and foremost, and this is reflected in the consequences of their actions. Robb holds true to his word and marries that girl, he may have gotten an army. Cat doesn't free Jamie, and Robb doesn't lose half his army.
Frey has no reason to trust Robb at this point. Not to mention Frey wants power. The reason why he wants Robb to marry his daughter is so she can be Queen and thus he has power. Robb underestimated Frey greatly, and essentially spit into his face by asking for an army. It's not a surprise that this happened in hindsight.
I'm not saying this is an ideal ending, and the Stark's as a whole are my favourite house. Looking at the world the characters live in and the actions they have taken to this point though, and it's completely justifiable what happened to them. You may not like that kind of story, and that's fair, but to call it a "shit series" is an entirely different beast.
the plot is perfectly believable. other posters have noted that roose and the other betrayers were acting quite rationally given the stark's record. it is essential that this plot makes this sort of sense, as it is what will make people keep tuning in. from what i can gather from all the nattering bookreaders, george martin has done a good job, so now that i am over my shock and sadness from seeing the murder of the great warrior of the north, the man who never lost a battle, i look forward to more compelling plotlines.
another thing to add is that the other houses have become a lot more likeable. tyrion as always delivers, and jaime as we've gotten to know him has turned out to have another side (assuming you didn't like the honesty of his warrior/killer mentality in the first place, much like the hound). i've even admired tywin for his ability to bring some order to king's landing, although he is unrelentingly cruel.
all in all the show does a good job at painting a dreadful picture of feudal power structures. clearly psychopathy is the norm as the dominant force for the lead characters, which would mirror most large scale power structures and so we see humanity portrayed very dimly.
On June 04 2013 23:30 aseq wrote: Anyone else who thought the fight with the 3 in Yunkai was actually pretty bad? It looked like a beginner's martial arts dance. Especially the guy with the spear, he'd wait for 2 seconds before actually thrusting it near the enemy's body. Here at 1:25
I actually thought it was pretty cool and unique, especially Daario's stance and posture in battle.
It gave Grey Worm a bit of an identity while fighting. I felt it emphasized that his style (and presumably the rest of the unsullied) went for slow, precise and hard shots rather than quickness. He also used his shield quite a bit in battle, which probably helps him guard during his slow attacks. (I mean it's not practical, but that's the way I rationalize it. Styles>efficiency/practicality for me in artistic performances)
Daario was really cool the whole battle though. It was like he didnt even give a fuck.
The thing that I felt was the weirdest thing about Grey Worm's style was how much he spun the spear. Now, I'm not a spear master or whatever, but I'm pretty sure you don't need to spin your spear after every action you do...
That scene was really cool otherwise though, 3 different styles fighting together.
Grey Worm is a baller legend and I imagine he spins his spear for the same reason that pro SC2 players spam their APM to all hell, or how basketball players flare their dunks differently, or how I sit at my desk at work for 8 hours doing spinny tricks with my pen.
On June 04 2013 22:20 dehdar wrote: Robb Stark, Eddard Stark, Catelyn Stark, Talisa Stark and Eddard Stark Junior (Robb & Talisa's unborn child) have all been killed in devastating manner. Which Stark do you think is next? Clearly George R.R Martin has something against them, so it won't be the last dead Stark we'll see.
Bran, Rickon. Sansa, Arya or Jon? I think it will be Rickon. His role so far has been insignificant and as an orphan running around with a former wildling, whose never been south to the wall, I think his chances of survival are slim. Sansa is also at fatal risk. Now that the house of Stark is no more her life will become of little value to the Lannisters... What will become of her? I fear that George R.R Martin is cruel enough to put her through even more hell before terminating her life in devastating manner with Jeoffry to blame.
Thinking of it though Jammie Lannister swore to honour his promise to not let any harm come to the Stark girls, and I believe he will honour that promise no matter the price. Yes Rickon will have to go next...
Jaime might honor that, Tywin won't. Tywin assumes Bran and Rickon are dead, Sansa is family now, so she's safe from him, Jon is in the watch and didn't join Robb (proving he's out of the game)... That leaves Arya as Tywin's #1 most wanted, a position that is pretty risky. It seems like GoT is all about harvesting the delicious tears of the fans, and Danny's dragons aren't scary-badass-kill-everything yet.
On June 05 2013 01:03 dreamseller wrote: i've even admired tywin for his ability to bring some order to king's landing, although he is unrelentingly cruel.
Tywin and Bronn are the best. They are both ruthless, yes, but that's exactly why they're so successful. They represent two faces of the same coin, royalty and commoner. They are the only ones who actually seem to know what it is exactly they want and how to get it. They're also the ones who make the most reasonable decisions given the circumstances (even if those decisions are often cold-hearted).
On June 05 2013 01:03 dreamseller wrote: i've even admired tywin for his ability to bring some order to king's landing, although he is unrelentingly cruel.
Tywin and Bronn are the best. They are both ruthless, yes, but that's exactly why they're so successful. They represent two faces of the same coin, royalty and commoner. They are the only ones who actually seem to know what it is exactly they want and how to get it. They're also the ones who make the most reasonable decisions given the circumstances (even if those decisions are often cold-hearted).
Tywin does this because his father was a shame to the house Lannister (according to this video, go head no spoilers, I just started AGOT as well) so in my opinion is understandable how ruthless he is. And yeah, I agree with you but as a Stark guy myself, it's a shame that the only way Tywin could win Robb was this way. It's funny tho because if you read or search about Robert's rebellion, the Lannisters pulled the "same" or similar trick on Aerys. They stayed the hell out of the war until they saw Robert's and Ned's army going to King's Landing after Rhaegar died to then proceed to tell Aerys "We Lannisters are with ya!" to betray him and sack the city...
Well this is obviously just a set up for the most badass comeback story ever spanning across several seasons.
Jon Snow will run back to the crows but they will now think he's a spy from the wildlings because he's already banged the red haired girl. He gets killed by them out of suspicion. Bran goes into the forest and finds the 3 eyed raven, gains some super warg power like controlling multiple humans and comes back with his own army by tricking people to fight for him. He also gets leg prosthetics so he can walk. Arya finds the shapechanging assassin again and learns how to fight and how to shapeshift. She comes back with the rest of the north, merges with Bran's army and comes back and kills everyone. She also does the whole through your eye back of skull thing.
Stannis tries to bang the red haired woman but gets killed by her in some freaky way, however she dies as well. The bastard boy kills himself because he's now traumatized a leech sucked blood out of his boner. Flame sword man has a son that is called Robin Hood and takes over the brotherHooD.
And Joffrey dies by being blinded, fingers broken and thrown into a wine barrel filled with broken glass, salt and vinegar.
On June 05 2013 01:42 pyrogenetix wrote: Well this is obviously just a set up for the most badass comeback story ever spanning across several seasons.
Jon Snow will run back to the crows but they will now think he's a spy from the wildlings because he's already banged the red haired girl. He gets killed by them out of suspicion. Bran goes into the forest and finds the 3 eyed raven, gains some super warg power like controlling multiple humans and comes back with his own army by tricking people to fight for him. He also gets leg prosthetics so he can walk. Arya finds the shapechanging assassin again and learns how to fight and how to shapeshift. She comes back with the rest of the north, merges with Bran's army and comes back and kills everyone. She also does the whole through your eye back of skull thing.
Stannis tries to bang the red haired woman but gets killed by her in some freaky way, however she dies as well. The bastard boy kills himself because he's now traumatized a leech sucked blood out of his boner. Flame sword man has a son that is called Robin Hood and takes over the brotherHooD.
And Joffrey dies by being blinded, fingers broken and thrown into a wine barrel filled with broken glass, salt and vinegar.
Bran doesn't need leg prosthetics. Tyrion already told Bran that he could still ride with a special saddle and gave him the designs for it, something that's never been developed. Meanwhile Dany is bringing dragons back to Westeros and Bran is building up the ability to control animals. Dragon rider, npnp.
On June 05 2013 01:42 pyrogenetix wrote: Well this is obviously just a set up for the most badass comeback story ever spanning across several seasons.
Jon Snow will run back to the crows but they will now think he's a spy from the wildlings because he's already banged the red haired girl. He gets killed by them out of suspicion. Bran goes into the forest and finds the 3 eyed raven, gains some super warg power like controlling multiple humans and comes back with his own army by tricking people to fight for him. He also gets leg prosthetics so he can walk. Arya finds the shapechanging assassin again and learns how to fight and how to shapeshift. She comes back with the rest of the north, merges with Bran's army and comes back and kills everyone. She also does the whole through your eye back of skull thing.
Stannis tries to bang the red haired woman but gets killed by her in some freaky way, however she dies as well. The bastard boy kills himself because he's now traumatized a leech sucked blood out of his boner. Flame sword man has a son that is called Robin Hood and takes over the brotherHooD.
And Joffrey dies by being blinded, fingers broken and thrown into a wine barrel filled with broken glass, salt and vinegar.
Bran doesn't need leg prosthetics. Tyrion already told Bran that he could still ride with a special saddle and gave him the designs for it, something that's never been developed. Meanwhile Dany is bringing dragons back to Westeros and Bran is building up the ability to control animals. Dragon rider, npnp.
Pfft, everyone knows the dragon riders/powerpuff girls will be Danny/Blossom, Arya/Buttercup, and Sansa/Bubbles. Together they will defend the seven kingdoms/townsville from evil.
The people that are revealing who the guy that tortures Theon is + Show Spoiler +
Bolton's bastard
should be banned (since it's turned into an accepted fact in this thread I'm assuming it's true). It hasn't been revealed in the tv-series yet, don't know why the mods let those spoilers remain.
There was an unspoilered discussion of the show hints that led people to believe that it might be in the topic. It's difficult to moderate when people talk about what they see in the show and the correct extrapolations from that.
EPT
