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Imagine how bad everyone in Korea would react if Blizzard pulls the plug on OGN/MBC/Proleague. It would be almost like suicide. Even I would hate Blizzard if they did something like that.
Would they do it? Would they create ultra bad publicity for themselves? It's like negative advertising.
Somehow I don't think so.
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These terms are ridiculous. Blizzard and Gretech demand an absurd amount of money from a scene that they did jack shit to help create. Yes they created the game. But so what? People PAID MONEY to get it! Why then should blizzard have the rights to demand additional money to broadcast the game? I could understand if they released a perfectly balanced game with professional maps and constant support and kespa just ripped it off to "make money". However this is completely not the case. Blizzard has done virtually nothing for BW esports. Not to mention the korean BW scene has given blizzard so much free advertising over the years. How else do you think starcraft has sold so many copies in korea? Both parties were benefiting until Blizzard decided to get greedy.
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Estonia4504 Posts
On November 14 2010 11:17 toadstool wrote:
Imagine how bad everyone in Korea would react if Blizzard pulls the plug on OGN/MBC/Proleague. It would be almost like suicide. Even I would hate Blizzard if they did something like that.
Would they do it? Would they create ultra bad publicity for themselves? It's like negative advertising.
Somehow I don't think so.
But they didn't do it, did they? It was the broadcasting studios/KeSPA themselves who did it. That's what is being argued now, that's what is being argued later by the supporters. Everything but the actual thing has already been done, and you don't see mass demonstrations in front of the Ministry of Culture, I suppose.
And after it's dead, I really think no-one other than the ones already complaining will care enough to make a difference. It's not enough to prevent Blizzard supporters from buying their games or playing on B.net 2. And Blizzard know it.
EDIT: Please do note, that I did not argue anyone's intentions, just the ability of Blizzard to distance itself if this would happen.
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United States4053 Posts
Milkis, you might want to link this excellent post you made at the top of your OP, just to make sure this doesn't devolve into another polarized and/or uninformed flame war.
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if MBC/OGN agree to the terms, all they are doing is establishing the broadcasting license fees and that MBC/OGN will recognize Blizzard's IP.
MBC/OGN will still have to go through Blizzard/Gretech to gain approval for when they want to use Blizzard's IP which is a huge issue in my opinion. while I doubt Blizzard has much issue with whatever content OGN/MBC creates for Proleague, Starleague, and whatever else they broadcast, I believe Blizzard/Gretech will attempt to control BW broadcast times so that they do not clash with SC2 GSL times.
this has huge implications because Blizzard/Gretech will want to run SC2 GSL during prime hours, thus putting BW broadcast times at less than ideal times affecting revenue streams and profits generated by BW. perhaps they'll find a way to all schedule it out so that every league gets their desired times/dates, but I seriously doubt it.
one year contract length also sucks
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On November 14 2010 11:25 mustaju wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2010 11:17 toadstool wrote:
Imagine how bad everyone in Korea would react if Blizzard pulls the plug on OGN/MBC/Proleague. It would be almost like suicide. Even I would hate Blizzard if they did something like that.
Would they do it? Would they create ultra bad publicity for themselves? It's like negative advertising.
Somehow I don't think so. But they didn't do it, did they? It was the broadcasting studios/KeSPA themselves who did it. That's what is being argued now, that's what is being argued later by the supporters. Everything but the actual thing has already been done, and you don't see mass demonstrations in front of the Ministry of Culture, I suppose. And after it's dead, I really think no-one other than the ones already complaining will care enough to make a difference. It's not enough to prevent Blizzard supporters from buying their games or playing on B.net 2. And Blizzard know it. EDIT: Please do note, that I did not argue anyone's intentions, just the ability of Blizzard to distance itself if this would happen.
What about the negative reactions from the Korean fans? Korea is a huge target market for Blizzard games.
Although judging from what little I've gathered from reading these threads, the Korean fans have more trust in Blizzard than KESPA?
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United States4053 Posts
On November 14 2010 11:45 toadstool wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2010 11:25 mustaju wrote:On November 14 2010 11:17 toadstool wrote:
Imagine how bad everyone in Korea would react if Blizzard pulls the plug on OGN/MBC/Proleague. It would be almost like suicide. Even I would hate Blizzard if they did something like that.
Would they do it? Would they create ultra bad publicity for themselves? It's like negative advertising.
Somehow I don't think so. But they didn't do it, did they? It was the broadcasting studios/KeSPA themselves who did it. That's what is being argued now, that's what is being argued later by the supporters. Everything but the actual thing has already been done, and you don't see mass demonstrations in front of the Ministry of Culture, I suppose. And after it's dead, I really think no-one other than the ones already complaining will care enough to make a difference. It's not enough to prevent Blizzard supporters from buying their games or playing on B.net 2. And Blizzard know it. EDIT: Please do note, that I did not argue anyone's intentions, just the ability of Blizzard to distance itself if this would happen. What about the negative reactions from the Korean fans? Korea is a huge target market for Blizzard games. Although judging from what little I've gathered from reading these threads, the Korean fans have more trust in Blizzard than KESPA?
I've seen a lot of polarization similar to what's happening in these threads, but since I don't actually read Korean, I don't have the full picture. I won't hesitate to say that there are many in Korea who despise kespa though.
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Estonia4504 Posts
On November 14 2010 11:45 toadstool wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2010 11:25 mustaju wrote:On November 14 2010 11:17 toadstool wrote:
Imagine how bad everyone in Korea would react if Blizzard pulls the plug on OGN/MBC/Proleague. It would be almost like suicide. Even I would hate Blizzard if they did something like that.
Would they do it? Would they create ultra bad publicity for themselves? It's like negative advertising.
Somehow I don't think so. But they didn't do it, did they? It was the broadcasting studios/KeSPA themselves who did it. That's what is being argued now, that's what is being argued later by the supporters. Everything but the actual thing has already been done, and you don't see mass demonstrations in front of the Ministry of Culture, I suppose. And after it's dead, I really think no-one other than the ones already complaining will care enough to make a difference. It's not enough to prevent Blizzard supporters from buying their games or playing on B.net 2. And Blizzard know it. EDIT: Please do note, that I did not argue anyone's intentions, just the ability of Blizzard to distance itself if this would happen. What about the negative reactions from the Korean fans? Korea is a huge target market for Blizzard games. Although judging from what little I've gathered from reading these threads, the Korean fans have more trust in Blizzard than KESPA?
Exactly my point. Everyone knows of the possibility, yet are possibly way too stunned from the success of the new big thing to care about the old leagues that gave them so much entertainment. They have not seen Blizzard fuck up yet, and I'm wondering what will happen if they do.
I'm also wondering if sayings like "in a few years, SC2 will be as deep as BW" will be enough if they do see BW die in a few months. Taking something for granted and losing it for years must be horrible.
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I think if we see BW as just a video game, the terms are more than reasonable. 100m won is a token sum for Blizzard although it might not be the case for MBC/OGN. However, It makes perfect sense that a game creator will have the IP right to a game and the prerogative to control what to do with it. As others have pointed out, if KESPA suddenly claims that Super Mario is public property and does not recognize Nintendo as its owner, then Nintendo will probably go apeshit and sue.
Problem is, BW is more than just a video game but a national sport. If we see it from that pov then there are some points that are probably contentious as it means Blizzard might have too much a say in something that has grown in Korean culture despite Blizzard not really doing anything to promote it.
•Ownership Rights: The ownership of the broadcasting material created under this contract will be split 50:50 between the Broadcasting station and Gretech/Blizzard.
•Approval: Whenever you use the Intellectual Property rights, you need approval from Blizzard and Gretech
The success of Esports in Korea cannot be attributed to Blizzard and thus if we see BW as a culture and Esports, i can understand those who find Blizzard's final offer very limiting and damaging to BW especially the 2 clauses quoted above.
But to be honest, i think if this is anywhere but Korea , Blizzard has this easily. Bureaucracy in Korea is different though and i think foreign bias might work against Blizzard here if the court can be convinced that GRETECH is acting as a Blizzard puppet.
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On November 14 2010 10:07 ptz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2010 10:00 renzy wrote:On November 14 2010 09:24 Legace wrote:On November 14 2010 04:49 ]343[ wrote:On November 14 2010 04:25 Chibalicious wrote:
Yes it's just an e-sports but you have to ackknowledge how big SC:BW is in Korea. Compared to other e-sports like SC2 in the rest of the world, compared to counterstrike and other great e-sport, SC:BW in Korea is HUGE. What SC2 players and others often dont realise is how great BW is in Korea. With hundreds, maybe even thousands of paid employees, 2 TV-stations and the sponsors involved 90k is a drop in the water.
SC:BW is a great game and an industry that foreigners often cant even comprehend. Blizzard terms wont kill or hurt any of that. Hmm, have you seen this? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=162136MBC actually doesn't make any profits from broadcasting BW... 100 million won is definitely not a small sum. I guess broadcasters should have the Blizzard logo more prominently though. Let's reverse. Is a 100 million won per year a lot of money to Blizzard ? No, anyway you look at it - a 100 million won is, to say the least, pocket money for Blizzard. They probably spend more money on champagne everytime they launch a new game. To Blizzard, there are probably ten more important reason as to why they're doing this rather then just earning a buck or killing off BW. They could have, just as easily, demanded ten times as much money if they effectively wanted to kill off the BW scene. Yes, but to MBC, 100 million won x 3 seasons is asking for 30,000 dollars from a hobo. They've stated they only break even from broadcasting BW. There is no doubt why MBC didn't accept the offer. At worst, if MBC gets sued, they can't broadcast proleague. Okay, well atleast they don't lose money this way. However, if MBC does decide to pay the 300 million won per year, along with everything else, they lose pretty much, 300 million won per year. Who in the right mind would pay 300 million won to broadcast something that's only 50% theirs? Honestly, the broadcasted material isn't even all their property. they stated ? What costs does mbc have of running their starleague ? Because 300 million would be for 3 seasons of starleague, proleague would be 50k since ogn would pay half i suppose. So they have sponsors that give out the actual cash prizes. What are the operational costs of MBC ? Getting casters, booths, having a place where matches happen, and getting some k pop pussy to sing at the start of the show. They have like a shitload of commercials during those , because surely their proleague and starleague broadcasts are the ones that get the highest ratings, so selling air time should be easiest here. Howcome they dont break even ? They run a bad management if they dont make money off this free stuff, they should move on to something that can work for them if they hardly break even with sc. /sarcasm
Yes, they stated. I'll link you a thread that is 3 posts above. MBCgame makes no money off of broadcasting BW, unless you think MBC's CEO is bsing.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=162136
Edit: Oops, posted in the quote.
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On November 14 2010 12:26 renzy wrote:unless you think MBC's CEO is bsing.
Just wanted to note that it wasn't the CEO, it was the Business Director for MBC Plus Media
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5003 Posts
On November 14 2010 11:45 toadstool wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2010 11:25 mustaju wrote:On November 14 2010 11:17 toadstool wrote:
Imagine how bad everyone in Korea would react if Blizzard pulls the plug on OGN/MBC/Proleague. It would be almost like suicide. Even I would hate Blizzard if they did something like that.
Would they do it? Would they create ultra bad publicity for themselves? It's like negative advertising.
Somehow I don't think so. But they didn't do it, did they? It was the broadcasting studios/KeSPA themselves who did it. That's what is being argued now, that's what is being argued later by the supporters. Everything but the actual thing has already been done, and you don't see mass demonstrations in front of the Ministry of Culture, I suppose. And after it's dead, I really think no-one other than the ones already complaining will care enough to make a difference. It's not enough to prevent Blizzard supporters from buying their games or playing on B.net 2. And Blizzard know it. EDIT: Please do note, that I did not argue anyone's intentions, just the ability of Blizzard to distance itself if this would happen. What about the negative reactions from the Korean fans? Korea is a huge target market for Blizzard games. Although judging from what little I've gathered from reading these threads, the Korean fans have more trust in Blizzard than KESPA?
Korean netizens hardly reflect actual Korean fans.
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Estonia4504 Posts
On November 14 2010 12:57 Milkis wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2010 11:45 toadstool wrote:On November 14 2010 11:25 mustaju wrote:On November 14 2010 11:17 toadstool wrote:
Imagine how bad everyone in Korea would react if Blizzard pulls the plug on OGN/MBC/Proleague. It would be almost like suicide. Even I would hate Blizzard if they did something like that.
Would they do it? Would they create ultra bad publicity for themselves? It's like negative advertising.
Somehow I don't think so. But they didn't do it, did they? It was the broadcasting studios/KeSPA themselves who did it. That's what is being argued now, that's what is being argued later by the supporters. Everything but the actual thing has already been done, and you don't see mass demonstrations in front of the Ministry of Culture, I suppose. And after it's dead, I really think no-one other than the ones already complaining will care enough to make a difference. It's not enough to prevent Blizzard supporters from buying their games or playing on B.net 2. And Blizzard know it. EDIT: Please do note, that I did not argue anyone's intentions, just the ability of Blizzard to distance itself if this would happen. What about the negative reactions from the Korean fans? Korea is a huge target market for Blizzard games. Although judging from what little I've gathered from reading these threads, the Korean fans have more trust in Blizzard than KESPA? Korean netizens hardly reflect actual Korean fans.
Could you elaborate? It comes up often enough to be important.
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5003 Posts
On November 14 2010 13:00 mustaju wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2010 12:57 Milkis wrote:On November 14 2010 11:45 toadstool wrote:On November 14 2010 11:25 mustaju wrote:On November 14 2010 11:17 toadstool wrote:
Imagine how bad everyone in Korea would react if Blizzard pulls the plug on OGN/MBC/Proleague. It would be almost like suicide. Even I would hate Blizzard if they did something like that.
Would they do it? Would they create ultra bad publicity for themselves? It's like negative advertising.
Somehow I don't think so. But they didn't do it, did they? It was the broadcasting studios/KeSPA themselves who did it. That's what is being argued now, that's what is being argued later by the supporters. Everything but the actual thing has already been done, and you don't see mass demonstrations in front of the Ministry of Culture, I suppose. And after it's dead, I really think no-one other than the ones already complaining will care enough to make a difference. It's not enough to prevent Blizzard supporters from buying their games or playing on B.net 2. And Blizzard know it. EDIT: Please do note, that I did not argue anyone's intentions, just the ability of Blizzard to distance itself if this would happen. What about the negative reactions from the Korean fans? Korea is a huge target market for Blizzard games. Although judging from what little I've gathered from reading these threads, the Korean fans have more trust in Blizzard than KESPA? Korean netizens hardly reflect actual Korean fans. Could you elaborate? It comes up often enough to be important.
Most Korean fans are the people who just simply watch the game and enjoy the game whenever they can.
The negative reactions in Korea is heavily exaggerated. I think a lot of these netizens view these events as another reason to trash kespa and honestly that's probably the only reason why there's negative comments -- it has nothing to do with blizzard but rather koreans finding another reason to dislike kespa
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I dont think that OGN and MBC will agree with these kinda terms honnestly...
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The fee is nothing, anyone saying it's unreasonable pretty much doesn't know what they're talking about lol
The only thing that is a bit unreasonable is the 1 year term, but that's obviously to test the waters so it's understandable.
Will OGN and MBC agree to this though? Doubt it.
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On November 14 2010 14:34 Vista wrote:
The fee is nothing, anyone saying it's unreasonable pretty much doesn't know what they're talking about lol
The only thing that is a bit unreasonable is the 1 year term, but that's obviously to test the waters so it's understandable.
Will OGN and MBC agree to this though? Doubt it.
the NFL and all americans companies negotiate for rights to the superbowl and other events on a yearly basis for the most part. No difference here.
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5003 Posts
On November 14 2010 14:41 darmousseh wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2010 14:34 Vista wrote:
The fee is nothing, anyone saying it's unreasonable pretty much doesn't know what they're talking about lol
The only thing that is a bit unreasonable is the 1 year term, but that's obviously to test the waters so it's understandable.
Will OGN and MBC agree to this though? Doubt it. the NFL and all americans companies negotiate for rights to the superbowl and other events on a yearly basis for the most part. No difference here.
Except the broadcasting stations didn't create the leagues in this case. OGN and MBC are directly responsible for creating the e-sports scene. In fact, they created it and ran it themselves before KeSPA took control of the scene.
Also NFL and "all other american companies" actually are directly involved in making the scene happen.
Don't make comparisons that attempt to trivialize the situation at hand, much like how much you guys rage whenever someone makes an IP rights comparison.
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On November 14 2010 11:08 T.O.P. wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2010 02:12 Iplaythings wrote:On November 14 2010 01:57 exeprime wrote:
The anti-blizzard bias here is palpable. The terms are quite normal and reasonable, I fail to see why everyone is so outraged. They demand that for one year. They arent some company which makes $ but a nonprofit organization, how can you ask that much of someone who doesnt even have the money, the only solution is cutting the prize pool or something, which will affect the players They dont even purchase the rights to be alone, they dont even keep their content or anything I fail to see how the demands ARENT unreasonable If OGN and MBCgame agrees to these demands, then they have effectively acknowledged that Blizzard owns the ip rights to starcraft broadcasts and they must get Blizzard's approval every time they want to broadcast something starcraft. That's a big problem because Gretech is only offering a 1 year contract. There's no stopping Gretech from demanding (like someone earlier said) OGN and MBCGame's CEO's daughter and 1,000,000,000 won next year. If OGN and MBCgame signs this, bw will die in one year.
That's just ignorant. Unless South Korea is a third world country, there are plenty of protections against changing contracts unreasonably. Anybody who raises prices like crazy from one contract to the next is going to be scrutinized like you wouldn't believe.
We don't have to be lawyers but the level of legal ignorance in TL is just crazy. Too many people don't even know the basics of copyright and contract law to make informed comments.
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On November 14 2010 12:26 renzy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2010 10:07 ptz wrote:On November 14 2010 10:00 renzy wrote:On November 14 2010 09:24 Legace wrote:On November 14 2010 04:49 ]343[ wrote:On November 14 2010 04:25 Chibalicious wrote:
Yes it's just an e-sports but you have to ackknowledge how big SC:BW is in Korea. Compared to other e-sports like SC2 in the rest of the world, compared to counterstrike and other great e-sport, SC:BW in Korea is HUGE. What SC2 players and others often dont realise is how great BW is in Korea. With hundreds, maybe even thousands of paid employees, 2 TV-stations and the sponsors involved 90k is a drop in the water.
SC:BW is a great game and an industry that foreigners often cant even comprehend. Blizzard terms wont kill or hurt any of that. Hmm, have you seen this? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=162136MBC actually doesn't make any profits from broadcasting BW... 100 million won is definitely not a small sum. I guess broadcasters should have the Blizzard logo more prominently though. Let's reverse. Is a 100 million won per year a lot of money to Blizzard ? No, anyway you look at it - a 100 million won is, to say the least, pocket money for Blizzard. They probably spend more money on champagne everytime they launch a new game. To Blizzard, there are probably ten more important reason as to why they're doing this rather then just earning a buck or killing off BW. They could have, just as easily, demanded ten times as much money if they effectively wanted to kill off the BW scene. Yes, but to MBC, 100 million won x 3 seasons is asking for 30,000 dollars from a hobo. They've stated they only break even from broadcasting BW. There is no doubt why MBC didn't accept the offer. At worst, if MBC gets sued, they can't broadcast proleague. Okay, well atleast they don't lose money this way. However, if MBC does decide to pay the 300 million won per year, along with everything else, they lose pretty much, 300 million won per year. Who in the right mind would pay 300 million won to broadcast something that's only 50% theirs? Honestly, the broadcasted material isn't even all their property. they stated ? What costs does mbc have of running their starleague ? Because 300 million would be for 3 seasons of starleague, proleague would be 50k since ogn would pay half i suppose. So they have sponsors that give out the actual cash prizes. What are the operational costs of MBC ? Getting casters, booths, having a place where matches happen, and getting some k pop pussy to sing at the start of the show. They have like a shitload of commercials during those , because surely their proleague and starleague broadcasts are the ones that get the highest ratings, so selling air time should be easiest here. Howcome they dont break even ? They run a bad management if they dont make money off this free stuff, they should move on to something that can work for them if they hardly break even with sc. /sarcasm Yes, they stated. I'll link you a thread that is 3 posts above. MBCgame makes no money off of broadcasting BW, unless you think MBC's CEO is bsing. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=162136Edit: Oops, posted in the quote.
Yeah, that's just BS. If they really are not making any money broadcasting BW, they should just broadcast "I Love Lucy" reruns and infomercials like local stations here in the US do if they have nothing else to broadcast.
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