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The Minerva Invictus Tournament - Page 52

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Profile Joined October 2009
United States1864 Posts
August 21 2010 14:25 GMT
#1021
When is this round starting up for today? Eastern time?
tofucake
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Hyrule19144 Posts
August 21 2010 14:31 GMT
#1022
On August 21 2010 21:50 Grimjim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 21 2010 19:01 SiguR wrote:
I hate to beat a dead horse, because I love horses, and I hate being negative, but...

If you were around on the stream for an hour leading up to the tournament and an hour after the scheduled start time for the tournament, I think it's hard not to be a little disgruntled. They organized a 512 person tournament and then showed up completely nonchalant and were oblivious to the majority of the problems occurring for the first hour. They told us to wait until 25 after the hour for no-shows, and then spent the majority of the time squabbling over which pro gamer to cast for round one. 80% of the players were left completely in the dark, and random players from the community did a lot more question answering than the admins.

It's not just that they bit off more than they could chew and need a few tournaments under their belt to learn to do things better. They had (what appeared to be) a total disregard for the time commitment of the people in the tournament. That isn't something you need experience to avoid. They spent the majority of the first hour bickering over which game to cast when anyone who wasnt qxc or kawaiirice had no idea what was going on. Casting a game in the first round of a pro stomping on a gold level player should have been very last on the list of things to do, but it seemed to be all they were concerned with. The stream and the thread were full of unanswered questions.

I was mildly offended because I felt like my time was not valued whatsoever. I showed up and had my time wasted. I am perfectly fine with taking one for the team and understanding the bigger picture if the problem that is leading to my time being wasted was unavoidable, but a majority of the problems tonight were completely avoidable.


No offense to the players that are unhappy with this tournament, but last I looked, there is no cost to signing up for this tournament, meaning this tournament is FREE for you to play.

If this tournament is FREE for you to play and you don't even have to travel to play it, then you should be grateful to Caterina and Tesla for taking their time to organize this, finding sponsors, and having a prize pool for the community.

Taking your frustration out on the organizers just discourages them (and other organizers) from organizing SC2 tournaments in the future. I'm sure Caterina and Tesla will smoothen things out by tomorrow, but to all the ******* who are griping on the organizers, this may be the last time they organize a FREE event for your benefit.

Less organizers of SC2 tournaments is a LOSS for the SC2 community. Just be patient and let them learn from tonight so we as a community can benefit from organizers like them for future tourneys.


The players invest time. They say time is money for a reason. Monetary investments are not the only kinds of investments one can make.

Less organizers for sc2 tournaments isn't a loss for the sc2 community in every regard. I'd rather have five refined and efficient tournament organizers than 20 mediocre ones. If the tournament organizers have a habit of putting together tournaments that fall apart or that the community is displeased with, i think it is completely proper to have them feel some heat so they either step up their game or move aside from more capable organizers.

I don't mean to imply that these tournament organizers are ones that should be pushed aside, but competition breeds better competitors. Reasonable criticism is very necessary. I don't think its a stretch to say that this tournament fell apart pretty quickly. If you don't make displeasure known, you're not going to get as much growth in tournament quality.


This x 100. Well said.

1. 512 people monitored by 2 (or 4, whatever) is insane. Get more volunteers.
2. That many games cannot be physically played and updated in one day, let alone at the latest hours of night. This should have been done with one round being a few days, that way you could play a game, send in replay, get your next opponent. You said you did so to avoid conflict with any other tournaments, but I don't see any going on this weekend.
3. Having check-ins for a 512 person tournament is just silly. Just tell people to play their games. They knew weeks in advance where to be, and if they don't show, their opponent gets a by. Simple as that.

Of course, this post might be claimed to be too harsh and white knights will simply flame me.



1. Quite a few 512 man tournaments are run by a single person (ie, GosuCoaching weekly by Xeris).
2. Yes they can. The problem was BinaryBeast kept crashing, and we couldn't actually update anything.
3. More than 200 people were no shows. There are people in Round 6 already simply because entire groups failed to show up. Do you know how much of a headache that is?
Liquipediaasante sana squash banana
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Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-21 14:42:54
August 21 2010 14:38 GMT
#1023
I don't think you guys were that far off from a well run tournament. I really didn't mind the checkins. They took a bit, and you probably could have worked out a better system, but it wasn't all that bad.

I get why it took so long to fill out the brackets, but even so it was just torture. I don't blame you guys so much (though you probably should have thought through the features of your bracket software a little bit more), it's just one of those things that happen. I tried to stick it out for the tournament, but it just didn't work out. I played my first game right at 11:00-11:20 EDT and it wasn't until 2:00am EDT when my 2nd round was updated because I was one of the last sets of people updated for round 1.

By then my opponent had literally fallen asleep or given up (I had talked to him earlier, but we decided to wait to make sure the brackets were done correctly).

At about 3:00 EDT or so when there was talk about postponing the tournament I just had to give up. I would have liked to stay on, but staying on for more hours just to see a tournament delayed would have been really hard for me. Unfortunately it looks like the tournament wasn't postponed and now I'm DQed =/ oh well.

Anyways for the future I'd recommend....

a) no one trying to cast games should be updating brackets or recording wins/losses.
b) don't use binary beast (obviously)
c) split the bracket up into 4 128 man brackets. This way you can divide up the work easier and it'll be easier for people to find names or keep track of the tournament. I suppose if the bracket system is better it wouldn't really matter, but I can see how it could help in a case like this.
d) Stay positive, I know it's hard when things are going well, but if you stay upbeat so will more of the tournament crowd.
e) Offer a 'break' for people with an estimated time. One of the hard parts was that you weren't sure when the brackets would be updated and you didn't want to go afk or do something else for risk of getting DQed. If you had maybe just said, "Ok look, come back at 1:30 EDT and play your 2nd round games and 1:45 EDT noshow is a DQ" then it would have been more bearable for people.
f) Don't publicly discuss postponement. I wouldn't be surprised if you lost a lot of people right then and there. I'm not saying it would have been a bad idea, but once you bring it up you're going to lose a lot of people who are willing to hedge their bets on the postponement happening.


Even so, thanks for running the tournament! It's obviously not easy, so I still appreciate the effort. It's also not the worst run SC2 tournament I've participated in.
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Bio
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada185 Posts
August 21 2010 14:40 GMT
#1024
Can I give prior notice that I may be 20 minutes late this Saturday evening due to me getting further than I expected in the tournament.

Please send me a PM saying if I may show up at around 11:15- 11:20


Thanks,

Bio
"Oh no, he has run out of..... base!"
StormWeapon
Profile Joined July 2010
United States159 Posts
August 21 2010 15:02 GMT
#1025
gonna to go ahead and say the tourney ran like shit (I bounced after I was knocked out 2 rounds in). I'm not salty about it (patient guy) and I think another turnout of similar size could be managed with the experience you guys gained.

It was a bit inconvenient to hang around for 2+ hours to play a couple games. with more people you'd have a smoother run imo
Since I have no knowledge of the bracket systems available I'll take Tesla's word on how shitty binarybeast was.

I'm of the opinion that it can be done in 2 or maybe 3 days like planned.

1 thing I thought was a bad idea:
Commentate a first round match since organizing the first round and doing results will be the most busy with many hiccups. Unless you have the woman/man power to run everything behind the scenes it's just slowing things down.

I am very optimistic you have learned som things and will Improvise, Adapt, Overcome and the next tournament will run much smoother (and less of a headache for you).

Sorry if the grammar sucks or Im rambling, I'm hammered and the screen is getting hazy.
Tyrant Potato
Floophead_III
Profile Joined September 2009
United States1832 Posts
August 21 2010 17:28 GMT
#1026
I'm not going to lie... in the massive amount of planning time you should've tried a 512 man in binary beast and noticed that it's a piece of shit service.

Just 10 minutes of testing would've saved hours of suffering later. -_-
Half man, half bear, half pig.
ICCup.Tesla
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States841 Posts
August 21 2010 17:45 GMT
#1027
I will read and take into consideration all the feedback you have all given. Floop - I would have loved to do that but as what was said last night, Cat handled the brackets and said we should do the binary beast. So again, my apologies.
@DjTesla ~ CEO of GoSc, GoLoL, GoD3 & GoSmite ~ @The_GoSc ~ @TheGoLoL ~ The greatest glory of man, is not in never falling, but in rising after each time he has fallen.
Deleted User 47542
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
1484 Posts
August 21 2010 19:19 GMT
#1028
Wern't we suppose to finish round 4 before 11 a.m today? Opponent never logged on and I have to go to work from 3-10 T_T
jackknight
Profile Joined March 2010
United States51 Posts
August 21 2010 19:20 GMT
#1029
On August 22 2010 02:45 ICCup.Tesla wrote:
I will read and take into consideration all the feedback you have all given. Floop - I would have loved to do that but as what was said last night, Cat handled the brackets and said we should do the binary beast. So again, my apologies.


IMO you should reword this statement... it could lead to future conflict but that my opinion.
Corinthos *
Profile Blog Joined February 2006
Canada1842 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-21 21:47:11
August 21 2010 21:35 GMT
#1030
I just finished round 3 (sent in the replay and results), but I am unsure who I will be playing for round 4. Thanks.

edit: for my round 4 it says noshow so do i get an advance to r5?

edit: if i play attero and you are reading this, i will be back tonight
KamuL
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States154 Posts
August 21 2010 23:50 GMT
#1031
how come the bracketts aren't fully updated to what its currently at D
IsAi.199 =) Roar
vx70GTOJudgexv
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States3161 Posts
August 22 2010 01:00 GMT
#1032
On August 21 2010 23:31 tofucake wrote:

1. Quite a few 512 man tournaments are run by a single person (ie, GosuCoaching weekly by Xeris).


Xeris is a freak of nature, expecting anyone to live up to the same level of organizing as him is insane.
(-_-) BW for ever. #1 Iris fan.
Nightmarjoo
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
United States3360 Posts
August 22 2010 01:21 GMT
#1033
You removed the time zone specific schedule? When is each round today?
aka Lyra; My favourites: July, Stork, Draco, MistrZZZ, TheStc, LastShadow - www.broodwarmaps.net - for all your mapping needs; check my stream: high masters mech terran: twitch.tv/lyrathegreat
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
August 22 2010 01:43 GMT
#1034
Do we still have to check in on the stream I am guessing?
When I think of something else, something will go here
Catreina
Profile Joined April 2010
United States304 Posts
August 22 2010 02:12 GMT
#1035
I want to chime in here and say that yes, day 1 was torturous for everyone, players, organizers, volunteers, viewers, et al.

I need to apologize to everyone who went through the hell that was day one of the first Minerva tournament, and alleviate your concerns that this is "how it was meant to be" or how it will be in the future. There were mistakes made, and there is no better teacher than experience. With that in mind, day 2 is upon us, things are more streamlined for the final day of the tournament, and future tournaments will bring this experience with them so that we can try to make sure the day 1 hell does not repeat.

I would find it very odd if people were not unhappy with how day 1 went. Brackets updated excruciatingly slowly, people were stuck with round 1 matches for 4+ hours, and the stream turned into a live feed of the brackets being updated. I would have been more than upset if I was a player. Believe me, we understand the issues here.

All I can say is that tonight, and in the future, our main goal is to make sure the tournament is run more efficiently and provides more entertainment and fun for all involved.
Doriboi
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States181 Posts
August 22 2010 03:54 GMT
#1036
On August 22 2010 11:12 Catreina wrote:
I want to chime in here and say that yes, day 1 was torturous for everyone, players, organizers, volunteers, viewers, et al.

I need to apologize to everyone who went through the hell that was day one of the first Minerva tournament, and alleviate your concerns that this is "how it was meant to be" or how it will be in the future. There were mistakes made, and there is no better teacher than experience. With that in mind, day 2 is upon us, things are more streamlined for the final day of the tournament, and future tournaments will bring this experience with them so that we can try to make sure the day 1 hell does not repeat.

I would find it very odd if people were not unhappy with how day 1 went. Brackets updated excruciatingly slowly, people were stuck with round 1 matches for 4+ hours, and the stream turned into a live feed of the brackets being updated. I would have been more than upset if I was a player. Believe me, we understand the issues here.

All I can say is that tonight, and in the future, our main goal is to make sure the tournament is run more efficiently and provides more entertainment and fun for all involved.



Perhaps start smaller? 32 players as a test run then continue to expand as the logistics become more efficient? The prize pool will still recruit great players, but like you mentioned, the logistics have to be better.
Pew Pew! www.fusionesports.com www.facebook.com/fusionsc2
Deleted User 47542
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
1484 Posts
August 22 2010 04:00 GMT
#1037
On August 22 2010 04:19 superbabosheki wrote:
Wern't we suppose to finish round 4 before 11 a.m today? Opponent never logged on and I have to go to work from 3-10 T_T


And I got dq'ed even though I got back by 8 p.m T_T
thesighter
Profile Joined July 2010
United States347 Posts
August 22 2010 05:16 GMT
#1038
Do a smaller tourney next time.
MoonMaster
Profile Joined August 2010
United States6 Posts
August 22 2010 07:20 GMT
#1039
A smaller tourney would have been much better. I hope next time they will be better prepared.
CheAse
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada919 Posts
August 22 2010 07:42 GMT
#1040
They probably would have liked to do a smaller one, but they decided to make it open for anyone to join instead of invite only.

I feel like there is too much negativity
SCV good to go sir
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