EPTrepairing worker priority balance - Page 5
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
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blacktoss
United States121 Posts
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Bags
United States69 Posts
Seriously, this is only a problem when you cannot physically click on the workers because they're behind the thor (which is 1 - 2 max), and those should have higher priority. | ||
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Ineluctable
Canada68 Posts
On September 20 2010 00:32 Bags wrote: I hope they change the priority system so my troops will shoot the units they counter when I a move! Seriously, this is only a problem when you cannot physically click on the workers because they're behind the thor (which is 1 - 2 max), and those should have higher priority. It's ok for terran to completely A move with his auto repairing SCVs (okay, he needs to toggle auto repair) but zerg and protoss need to do 10x the effort to shift click each SCV with an appropriate amount of units while making sure their melee units don't bug out and try to hit the thor when it is surrounded by scvs? Seriously? Did you even read the thread? | ||
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Purpose2
England187 Posts
 Planning on talking to my Queen about opening a school. | ||
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ocdscale
United States61 Posts
On September 20 2010 00:32 Bags wrote: I hope they change the priority system so my troops will shoot the units they counter when I a move! Seriously, this is only a problem when you cannot physically click on the workers because they're behind the thor (which is 1 - 2 max), and those should have higher priority. You can not be serious. The problem isn't that zealots/zerglings are attacking less desirable targets. The problem is that zealots/zerglings aren't attacking anything at all because they AI wants them to attack the Thor, the Thor is surrounded, so they run around like chickens with their heads cut off. Again, the best solution is remove AI targeting priority completely. Units attack whatever is closest. What's your complaint about that? Edit: Going over your posts on this topic, you either: a) don't understand the issue at all, b) are trolling, c) are sociopathic. | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On September 20 2010 00:32 Bags wrote: I hope they change the priority system so my troops will shoot the units they counter when I a move! Seriously, this is only a problem when you cannot physically click on the workers because they're behind the thor (which is 1 - 2 max), and those should have higher priority. Dude, individually focus firing each scv isn't a realistic option. First, with melee units, focus firing only compounds the problem. The two units who can reach the scv fire and the rest run in circles. Secondly, even with ranged units, it takes forever to click each scv, and when you've got 10+ stalkers in a control group, it's awful to tell them to focus fire a 45 hp scv. The ones that aren't in range will run around uselessly, and the ones that are in range will waste their shots overkilling the workers. It's not impossible to win, but the AI shouldn't bug out and cause your units to run in circles instead of being useful. | ||
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KhaosKreator
Canada145 Posts
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On September 20 2010 06:46 KhaosKreator wrote: So, what happens if you just press hold position? Don't your zealots automatically start attacking the SCV's? Yeah, the ones that are next to something. The ones that aren't stand still. | ||
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Sprouter
United States1724 Posts
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TedJustice
Canada1324 Posts
That's how they did it back in the day. | ||
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Voyager I
United States260 Posts
1. Make a Thor as fast as possible (comes out at around 7 mins) 2. Grab like 10 SCVs and tell them to auto repair it. 3. A-click the Thor on the enemy base. Usually, that one Thor and his cadre of healslaves is enough to win the game. I could make it even scarier by bringing Marines along (you can and should make them), but it's funnier to watch a Hero Thor reenact that one mission from the campaign. The only micro that's usually necessary is making sure the SCVs keep repairing (auto-repair actually makes them fairly retarded) and getting the Thor to continue on with the rampage when it wants to spend 5 minutes popping an Overlord. The only reason this kind of thing works is because auto-repair SCVs turn melee units retarded. The only practical way a Zerg player can get rid of the healtrain is to roll a bunch of Banelings into them, which requires them to already have a Baneling Nest to deal with a nigh-unscoutable push (the best info a Zerg might be able to get is that I'm making an early Factory, which isn't normally an indicator to make Banelings). Otherwise, you need like 13 Roaches to kill a repaired Thor, Zerglings do a useless dance around the base, and trying to target-fire individual SCVs with either of them will cause your army to be monstrously inefficient, to say nothing of the ridiculous APM demands placed on the Zerg (target fire every individual unit while they run around healing each other and hiding behind the Thor's model) compared to the Terran (make sure the Thor is Attack-Moving and the SCVs are on Auto-Repair before you start eating your popcorn). I think Protoss is a little better off dealing with this because they have early units like the Immortal that actually do fantastic amounts of damage to the Thor and Zealots will do a better job vs the SCVs than Zerglings, but it still relies on an obnoxious abuse of shoddy AI programming to make an otherwise ridiculous push extremely dangerous. In my opinion, the easiest solution would be to make the AI treat repairing SCVs as combat units, so units attack-moving near them would recognize them as viable targets instead of politely trying to find a way through to attack the Thor. I don't have as much of a problem with people using workers on Hold Position as blockers, since that's less abusive and can work in favor of every race rather than specifically allowing Terrans to win games with retarded pushes. Anyone out there trying to defend this as a legitimate gameplay mechanic should feel ashamed of themselves. | ||
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Hypatio
549 Posts
Again, the best solution is remove AI targeting priority completely. Units attack whatever is closest. This is EXACTLY what the AI should be, if not the default and only AI, IMO. | ||
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Chaosquo
Germany154 Posts
On September 20 2010 15:33 Voyager I wrote: I'm a Terran player who periodically abuses this sort of push because they're entertaining. Here's a build that's actually pretty successful against Diamond-level Zergs (and basically never loses against anyone lower). 1. Make a Thor as fast as possible (comes out at around 7 mins) 2. Grab like 10 SCVs and tell them to auto repair it. 3. A-click the Thor on the enemy base. Usually, that one Thor and his cadre of healslaves is enough to win the game. I could make it even scarier by bringing Marines along (you can and should make them), but it's funnier to watch a Hero Thor reenact that one mission from the campaign. The only micro that's usually necessary is making sure the SCVs keep repairing (auto-repair actually makes them fairly retarded) and getting the Thor to continue on with the rampage when it wants to spend 5 minutes popping an Overlord. The only reason this kind of thing works is because auto-repair SCVs turn melee units retarded. The only practical way a Zerg player can get rid of the healtrain is to roll a bunch of Banelings into them, which requires them to already have a Baneling Nest to deal with a nigh-unscoutable push (the best info a Zerg might be able to get is that I'm making an early Factory, which isn't normally an indicator to make Banelings). Otherwise, you need like 13 Roaches to kill a repaired Thor, Zerglings do a useless dance around the base, and trying to target-fire individual SCVs with either of them will cause your army to be monstrously inefficient, to say nothing of the ridiculous APM demands placed on the Zerg (target fire every individual unit while they run around healing each other and hiding behind the Thor's model) compared to the Terran (make sure the Thor is Attack-Moving and the SCVs are on Auto-Repair before you start eating your popcorn). I think Protoss is a little better off dealing with this because they have early units like the Immortal that actually do fantastic amounts of damage to the Thor and Zealots will do a better job vs the SCVs than Zerglings, but it still relies on an obnoxious abuse of shoddy AI programming to make an otherwise ridiculous push extremely dangerous. In my opinion, the easiest solution would be to make the AI treat repairing SCVs as combat units, so units attack-moving near them would recognize them as viable targets instead of politely trying to find a way through to attack the Thor. I don't have as much of a problem with people using workers on Hold Position as blockers, since that's less abusive and can work in favor of every race rather than specifically allowing Terrans to win games with retarded pushes. Anyone out there trying to defend this as a legitimate gameplay mechanic should feel ashamed of themselves. I laughed all the time while reading your post  On topic: What happens when you like someone said just ignore the thor, run all you units close to the marines and use a-move? Are marines and thors the same attacking priority? If so, your units should attack the closest one, in that case the marines? Do you lose too many units while running arround? | ||
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Fraidnot
United States824 Posts
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Grond
599 Posts
On September 19 2010 03:15 Juste wrote: Totally agree. A massive amount of SCVs repairing Thor(s) or a Planetary Fortress can be extremely problematic and in some scenarios near impossible to kill with a much bigger army. Trying to micro your army to kill each SCVs one at a time is extremely inefficient and during that time your army is getting owned by the Mech unit(s) being repaired. This needs to be adressed by Blizzard. The best AI fix I can think of for this would be to - flag SCVs that are repairing a Unit that is attacking you, the same as if those SCVs were (A command) Attacking you. So your army would Damage both the repairing SCVs and the mech unit at once. Best fix I can think of is only 1 SCV can repair a unit. Even disregarding breaking the AI the speed at which multiple SCVs repair will always be a problem. | ||
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EriktheGuy
Canada132 Posts
On September 20 2010 16:06 Hypatio wrote: This is EXACTLY what the AI should be, if not the default and only AI, IMO. You mean attack whichever units are closest, and then buildings? Or just whatever is closest? | ||
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Thereisnosaurus
Australia1822 Posts
Even in a more realistic situation, getting early temps against mech is a good idea. A couple of storms on a tank clump can be very effective, and it makes the marine/tank combo a lot less effective. For zerg, the same thing goes, really. Infestors are a good trick to have up your sleeve, as are banelings- you might not do a lot to the thor, but you'll push the rines off and kill all the SCVs, leaving speedlings free to finish it off. | ||
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Wolf
Korea (South)3290 Posts
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link0
United States1071 Posts
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