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[QUOTE]On September 19 2010 01:21 Tomtaietot wrote:
[QUOTE]On September 19 2010 01:07 universalwill wrote:
just so we are all clear. battlecruisers, thors, ultralisks, brood lords, carriers, colossi, and motherships are all massive units. corruptors only hit air. /QUOTE]
Brood lords don t seem like a MASIVE unit ... after all they're made from a corruptor - so kinda same size ... he s not getting MASSIVE amounts of proteins and vitamins to get as big as a floating city (mothership) ... or like a flying super-mega elephant ...... or as big a ship traveeling between stars .... [/QUOTE]
It makes broodlings...
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As you'll see in the replay, I had a much larger army by the time the push hit
This is false, your armies were about even in minerals and gas. If we count the scvs he brought then he was ahead on minerals by 150 and you were ahead by 200 in gas, so, again very even. If he didn't have thors and brought all those scvs and had marauders instead, you'd still have lost with that FE in close positions (cept instead of your zealots running around a thor they'd be getting kited) with no obs checking his tech and nothing to counter his large marine numbers.
Yeah, it makes it easy on the terran, especially with auto-repair, but I don't think that replay is a great example of the issue.
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I don't usually reply to these things, but I think I can provide some insight;
When I VS Terran, my midgame plan is having two bases and high templars+chargelots, virtually regardless of his build. I'm not sure on the timing of the thor, but if you can get storm in time you can easily crush his push. (Feedback on thor, storm scvs) However, if it doesnt come out in time there are a few things you can do:
1- FF in an arc behind the Thor(So he doesn't walk and crush them) To seperate SCVs, and FocusFire it down.
2- Just delay him until storm comes out, if it's close. He won't be able to march up the ramp because you can FF behind it, and the thor would be isolated. That, or he'd be forced to back up and crush the FF you put behind him. Either way, you're buying yourself time and free hits.
3-Go down the robo path. Collosis have nice splash damage, and you can manually target the scvs. You won't have to do every single one because it will kill 2-3 every time with its pewpew lazers.
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On September 19 2010 00:43 tacrats wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 00:42 kcdc wrote:On September 19 2010 00:39 Count9 wrote:
since you mention ff, have you tried ff the thor in a circle so there's no surface area to repair? Massive units destroy forcefields. i dont think thors are massive (corruptors dont hit them)
They are defiantly massive. Do corruptors hit ultras?
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On September 19 2010 01:38 Sanguinarius wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 00:43 tacrats wrote:On September 19 2010 00:42 kcdc wrote:On September 19 2010 00:39 Count9 wrote:
since you mention ff, have you tried ff the thor in a circle so there's no surface area to repair? Massive units destroy forcefields. i dont think thors are massive (corruptors dont hit them) They are defiantly massive. Do corruptors hit ultras?
Defiantly massive, they're massive and that's how they stick it to the man.
I love how derailed this thread got already. The dude who posted that was like "my bad" after 2-3 more posts. He gets it. 
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On September 19 2010 01:25 Count9 wrote:Show nested quote +As you'll see in the replay, I had a much larger army by the time the push hit This is false, your armies were about even in minerals and gas. If we count the scvs he brought then he was ahead on minerals by 150 and you were ahead by 200 in gas, so, again very even. If he didn't have thors and brought all those scvs and had marauders instead, you'd still have lost with that FE in close positions (cept instead of your zealots running around a thor they'd be getting kited) with no obs checking his tech and nothing to counter his large marine numbers. Yeah, it makes it easy on the terran, especially with auto-repair, but I don't think that replay is a great example of the issue.
I didn't count the units and add up the costs. I just looked at the graph in the game summary, and my line was way above his. I can try to sum up everything later.
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Wouldn't a nice storm just blow those scvs to pieces? I mean, thors are pretty high up on tech chain aren't they compared to HTs?
Just sayin a thought. If not possible, what about immortals. You can have one out before I get to your base with 3 maurders and a marine. They do 50 a pop to thors. 3 of him doing 150 every what, 1.5seconds sure is a bit faster than repair rate, or isnt it? I dont know the rate
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On September 19 2010 00:43 tacrats wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 00:42 kcdc wrote:On September 19 2010 00:39 Count9 wrote:
since you mention ff, have you tried ff the thor in a circle so there's no surface area to repair? Massive units destroy forcefields. i dont think thors are massive (corruptors dont hit them)
I wish I wouldn't get warn on these forums for posting facepalm.jpg
User was warned for this post
edit: goddamit
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If you know this coming, you can go 1gate into robo and get 3-4 immortal. Should be able to get it, before terran has Thor, since you have Chrono Boost, and he has to build Armory. 1-2-3 zealot for marines and rest all stalkers to snipe off the scvs, sentry is really useless in that battle. Force fields dosen't help much, since Thor can destroy it.
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On September 19 2010 01:50 iAmJeffReY wrote:
Wouldn't a nice storm just blow those scvs to pieces? I mean, thors are pretty high up on tech chain aren't they compared to HTs?
Just sayin a thought. If not possible, what about immortals. You can have one out before I get to your base with 3 maurders and a marine. They do 50 a pop to thors. 3 of him doing 150 every what, 1.5seconds sure is a bit faster than repair rate, or isnt it? I dont know the rate
Storm tech takes longer than Thors. You need more buildings, and of course need storm to finish researching. Another problem is that rushing to storm puts you in a very vulnerable position to a number of timing pushes because of low army count.
A Terran who plans a Thor push can spend his 2nd or 3rd 50 energy to scan instead of mule and decide whether to switch over to bio+tank. The only 'wasted' building in the short term is the armory.
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Agree 100%, change priority, or don't allow Thors to have so many SCVs fit around them .
Cap it at 5 maximum units can be repairing!!!
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For those suggesting storm/immortals, you can't get storm in time. If you go 1-gate into robo, you can probably get enough immortals to kill the thor. But you shouldn't have to go 1-gate into robo to stop this push. If this were any other push that hits at the same time (bio, bio + medivacs, marine-tank, marine-banshee), my army would have crushed it easily. If my units would have just attacked the marines or the scvs, my army would have crushed the push easily.
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On September 19 2010 00:43 tacrats wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 00:42 kcdc wrote:On September 19 2010 00:39 Count9 wrote:
since you mention ff, have you tried ff the thor in a circle so there's no surface area to repair? Massive units destroy forcefields. i dont think thors are massive (corruptors dont hit them)
Yes thors are massive, Your right corruptors don't hit them.
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On September 19 2010 01:50 iAmJeffReY wrote:
Wouldn't a nice storm just blow those scvs to pieces? I mean, thors are pretty high up on tech chain aren't they compared to HTs?
Just sayin a thought. If not possible, what about immortals. You can have one out before I get to your base with 3 maurders and a marine. They do 50 a pop to thors. 3 of him doing 150 every what, 1.5seconds sure is a bit faster than repair rate, or isnt it? I dont know the rate
you can compare storm to thors "250mm ability". the difference is p needs 110secs for researching, t does not. during that windows t is in a huge advantage!
immortals get shred by marines
also ff arent useless. if the thor has to move around to destroy them you buy some seconds to kill the scvs or the real damagedealer in that clash - the marines
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Can't watch the rep, but wouldn't Colossi + skirmishing wreck thor-repair builds? Plus, if he's getting MMM to supplement it (he probably is) you'll want the colossi anyways.
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Honestly, easiest way to fix this "problem" would be to just give SCVs that are REPAIRING really high priority, in the same vein that Medivacs have higher priority. I believe we had a topic about that a short while ago.
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Totally agree. A massive amount of SCVs repairing Thor(s) or a Planetary Fortress can be extremely problematic and in some scenarios near impossible to kill with a much bigger army. Trying to micro your army to kill each SCVs one at a time is extremely inefficient and during that time your army is getting owned by the Mech unit(s) being repaired.
This needs to be adressed by Blizzard.
The best AI fix I can think of for this would be to - flag SCVs that are repairing a Unit that is attacking you, the same as if those SCVs were (A command) Attacking you. So your army would Damage both the repairing SCVs and the mech unit at once.
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i keep saying this, but a way to change attack priorities on the fly would make sc2 so much easier. Just have your whole army either give priority to workers, army, or buildings, depending on the situation
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On September 19 2010 01:21 Tomtaietot wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 01:07 universalwill wrote:
just so we are all clear. battlecruisers, thors, ultralisks, brood lords, carriers, colossi, and motherships are all massive units. corruptors only hit air. Brood lords don t seem like a MASIVE unit ... after all they're made from a corruptor - so kinda same size ... he s not getting MASSIVE amounts of proteins and vitamins to get as big as a floating city (mothership) ... or like a flying super-mega elephant ...... or as big a ship traveeling between stars ....
Then a hatchery must be very small, since it is morphed from a drone.
Also, all zerg units must roughly be the size of a larva, according to this theory hehe 
On subject, this is a tricky rush. Ideally, you would have some more immortals to deal with the thors, or some area of effect units, like colossi or storm to kill surrounding targets while hitting thor.
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I wish the game would build troops for me too, but unfortunately there's only so much the game should automate.
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EPT
