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On September 19 2010 03:35 ocdscale wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 03:28 Bags wrote:
I wish the game would build troops for me too, but unfortunately there's only so much the game should automate. I think you grossly misunderstand the issue. If the game didn't automate attack priorities, this wouldn't be a problem. Zealots would attack whatever is closest (the repairing scvs), and you could target fire whatever you wanted. The problem is that the game does automate attack priorities. In most cases this is fine because the player can manually override. However, in some cases the burden the game puts one one player is so much greater than the other that it causes problems. This is most evident when you're fighting next to a planetary fortress.
Hold a and shift click all of the workers.
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On September 19 2010 04:35 Bags wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 03:35 ocdscale wrote:On September 19 2010 03:28 Bags wrote:
I wish the game would build troops for me too, but unfortunately there's only so much the game should automate. I think you grossly misunderstand the issue. If the game didn't automate attack priorities, this wouldn't be a problem. Zealots would attack whatever is closest (the repairing scvs), and you could target fire whatever you wanted. The problem is that the game does automate attack priorities. In most cases this is fine because the player can manually override. However, in some cases the burden the game puts one one player is so much greater than the other that it causes problems. This is most evident when you're fighting next to a planetary fortress. Hold a and shift click all of the workers.
This sometimes works. However, when it's something like a Thor, it's quite often that a lot of SCVs will be in the shadow of the Thor, making it near impossible to click those during those do or die battles. Worse when it's a battlecruiser or two with a bunch of SCVs lurking under it, since you're going to have to suicide lots of zealots to chew through the ground forces + scvs, or whatever ground only unit you've got.
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If he is quick teching to thors, would a quick timing attack wipe him out from a 3 gate? (assuming you knew he was going for a tech).
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On September 19 2010 04:35 Bags wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 03:35 ocdscale wrote:On September 19 2010 03:28 Bags wrote:
I wish the game would build troops for me too, but unfortunately there's only so much the game should automate. I think you grossly misunderstand the issue. If the game didn't automate attack priorities, this wouldn't be a problem. Zealots would attack whatever is closest (the repairing scvs), and you could target fire whatever you wanted. The problem is that the game does automate attack priorities. In most cases this is fine because the player can manually override. However, in some cases the burden the game puts one one player is so much greater than the other that it causes problems. This is most evident when you're fighting next to a planetary fortress. Hold a and shift click all of the workers.
Shift targets with zerglings?
Only 2-3 will ever be attacking at a time. I hate terrans who say this line.
If you tried to kill workers 1 by 1 by manual shift click on a p-fortress, your entire army would be gone by the time the scvs dies.
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On September 19 2010 04:35 Bags wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 03:35 ocdscale wrote:On September 19 2010 03:28 Bags wrote:
I wish the game would build troops for me too, but unfortunately there's only so much the game should automate. I think you grossly misunderstand the issue. If the game didn't automate attack priorities, this wouldn't be a problem. Zealots would attack whatever is closest (the repairing scvs), and you could target fire whatever you wanted. The problem is that the game does automate attack priorities. In most cases this is fine because the player can manually override. However, in some cases the burden the game puts one one player is so much greater than the other that it causes problems. This is most evident when you're fighting next to a planetary fortress. Hold a and shift click all of the workers.
This doenst solve anything, they all still try to focus on one SCV.
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On September 19 2010 01:13 SharkSpider wrote:
Worker priority is already high if the workers are attacking (try it some time), but the key is that despite the fact that Blizz was able to make repairing workers top priority on brutal mode in the campaign, they don't get this treatment online. I think it's pretty reasonable to set a repairing SCV to the same priority, or higher, of an attacking one.
If they set it at the same priority of an attacking unit they would attack the closer unit, this being the scv.
I think that might be the best solution.
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Repair is just broken. If you have high priority on repairng scvs, then your army will just die trying to kill workers. If repairing scv is not high priority, your army ends up attacking 1 thor for 5 seconds. I think one of the possible ways to deal with it might be to set the unit being repaired at lowest priorty along with the scvs so that your army just kills everything first then the repaired unit, but the flaw is that people will jus put like 2 thors in the front with 20 scvs covering them and your army will have to run around it if you don't focus fire. such a mess... Just take our priority AI and put in "attack whatever unit is closest - ignore none defensive buildings"
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On September 19 2010 04:35 Bags wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 03:35 ocdscale wrote:On September 19 2010 03:28 Bags wrote:
I wish the game would build troops for me too, but unfortunately there's only so much the game should automate. I think you grossly misunderstand the issue. If the game didn't automate attack priorities, this wouldn't be a problem. Zealots would attack whatever is closest (the repairing scvs), and you could target fire whatever you wanted. The problem is that the game does automate attack priorities. In most cases this is fine because the player can manually override. However, in some cases the burden the game puts one one player is so much greater than the other that it causes problems. This is most evident when you're fighting next to a planetary fortress. Hold a and shift click all of the workers.
With zealots? Yes, if the protoss player clones the zealots onto the repairing scvs adequately, they can overcome this issue. The problem isn't that it's insurmountable, it's that one player has to manually fight the wonky priority system (zealots/zerglings prioritizing units they can't reach over units they can reach, wtf?) while the other player doesn't.
Imagine if Terran could build a psi-disrupter, which causes all zerg units in the game to lose the ability to attack-move or autoattack. You need to manually target fire everything. Bullshit or no?
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On September 19 2010 04:35 Bags wrote:
Hold a and shift click all of the workers.
You need to actually try your suggestions before offering them. Doing this with marines (or any terran unit) works great, but not with zealots or zergling.
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On September 19 2010 05:02 dybydx wrote:
how about banelings?
Who builds a baneling nest when they go factory..?
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On September 19 2010 05:36 artanis2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 04:35 Bags wrote:
Hold a and shift click all of the workers. You need to actually try your suggestions before offering them. Doing this with marines (or any terran unit) works great, but not with zealots or zergling.
Yep, clearly someone has no idea how zerg or protoss works in this situation.
EDIT: To all of you guys posting your great solutions...the point is, the player not on the receiving end of 10+ SCVs repairing their Thor/BC has to do literally 5 times the work of the other player no matter the circumstance. It's not fair.
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On September 19 2010 05:40 mierin wrote:
Yep, clearly someone has no idea how zerg works.
EDIT: To all of you guys posting your great solutions...the point is, the player not on the receiving end of 10+ SCVs repairing their Thor/BC has to do literally 5 times the work of the other player no matter the circumstance. It's not fair.
I've ran into an even worse version that used a medivac without a complete surround. Even when I target-fired the SCVs, the medivac healed too fast for my zerglings to kill the worker.
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On September 19 2010 05:40 mierin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 05:36 artanis2 wrote:On September 19 2010 04:35 Bags wrote:
Hold a and shift click all of the workers. You need to actually try your suggestions before offering them. Doing this with marines (or any terran unit) works great, but not with zealots or zergling. Yep, clearly someone has no idea how zerg or protoss works in this situation. EDIT: To all of you guys posting your great solutions...the point is, the player not on the receiving end of 10+ SCVs repairing their Thor/BC has to do literally 5 times the work of the other player no matter the circumstance. It's not fair.
I'm actually fine with needing a larger army or having to micro really well in order to survive a good timing push. If scvs repairing a unit were just given the target priority of the unit they're repairing, the problem would be solved. Just make the AI smart enough that zealots/zerglings don't bug out and run around instead of attacking, and players can work out the rest.
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I went up against this today on the ladder and beat it pretty handedly. But it was more due to the fact that i 1 gate expanded and his attack came late. I had 1 immortal about 6 stalkers 2 sentries and maybe 8 zealotswhen he came with 1 thor 15 scvs and 15 marines. What I did was first try to focus down a couple of his scvs with my ranged units while the zealots were tanking and hammering some on his marines, then I took all my units and focused the thor. The thor dropped almost instantly (alot because of the immortal) because his scvs on auto repair was repairing other scvs instead of the thor. Had he focus repaired his thor there it might have been another deal.
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They should make it so that only one worker can repair one unit or building at a time. It'll be something like the medics, where only one medic can heal one unit at a time.
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On September 19 2010 06:07 StarBrift wrote:
I went up against this today on the ladder and beat it pretty handedly. But it was more due to the fact that i 1 gate expanded and his attack came late. I had 1 immortal about 6 stalkers 2 sentries and maybe 8 zealotswhen he came with 1 thor 15 scvs and 15 marines. What I did was first try to focus down a couple of his scvs with my ranged units while the zealots were tanking and hammering some on his marines, then I took all my units and focused the thor. The thor dropped almost instantly (alot because of the immortal) because his scvs on auto repair was repairing other scvs instead of the thor. Had he focus repaired his thor there it might have been another deal.
Watch the replay. I 1-gate expanded and had almost the exact same army. My opponent just had 10 more marines than yours did, so I'm guessing your opponent wasn't playing optimally. And yes, if he didn't repair his thor, well, that game probably isn't a great data point on the balance issue....
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Maybe it's like fighting ravens and PDD, you have to hit and run him. Thors are so slow, marines faster and scvs about the same... try and force them to make a pathing mistake and pick off a worker or two with your retreating stalkers. Maybe you could set up a flank of some sort?
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This is something I think will be fixed for sure. I can't possibly see anyone arguing that the game should work this way, or is better off working this way. It's not like these attacks won't still be strong if SCV priority is fixed either, they just won't work so stupidly.
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United Kingdom12071 Posts
I think the trouble with having too high a priority, is yes it would fix the thor surround problem, but also it'd make repairing any form of bunkers or walls against any collosus so hard as the SCVs would just melt trying to repair while holding off for a viking or so.
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EPT
