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On December 17 2013 00:48 hypercube wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2013 22:49 TT1 wrote:On December 16 2013 22:41 Waxangel wrote:On December 16 2013 22:36 TT1 wrote:On December 16 2013 22:35 Waxangel wrote:
where's the GOD NO option? fuckin traditionalist, get with the times grandpa i'd rather not pros waste their time playing 2v2's solely for PL when there's way more opportunities outside PL in SC2 compared to BW how so? only a small % of koreans play in foreign tourneys and theres only a few leagues in korea. also, i doubt it would have an effect on the higher tier kors seeing as teamplay matches usually involve 2nd tier pros. if anything it just gives lesser known players more exposure Yes, but as long as you play and practice 1v1 there's a hope of eventually becoming that top tier player. Getting assigned to 2v2 is a fucking death sentence career-wise (except for ZergBong, I guess).
well it wasnt as if only scrubs played 2v2 back in the day, i remember reach and yellow used to 2v2 for KT and they were pretty good. both were accomplished 1v1 players at the time aswell
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I only like 2v2 if the teams share their bases, I really dislike the matches where 1 player gets attacks by 2 at the same time and the other one can´t help him because he is too far away 
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On December 17 2013 00:53 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2013 00:48 hypercube wrote:On December 16 2013 22:49 TT1 wrote:On December 16 2013 22:41 Waxangel wrote:On December 16 2013 22:36 TT1 wrote:On December 16 2013 22:35 Waxangel wrote:
where's the GOD NO option? fuckin traditionalist, get with the times grandpa i'd rather not pros waste their time playing 2v2's solely for PL when there's way more opportunities outside PL in SC2 compared to BW how so? only a small % of koreans play in foreign tourneys and theres only a few leagues in korea. also, i doubt it would have an effect on the higher tier kors seeing as teamplay matches usually involve 2nd tier pros. if anything it just gives lesser known players more exposure Yes, but as long as you play and practice 1v1 there's a hope of eventually becoming that top tier player. Getting assigned to 2v2 is a fucking death sentence career-wise (except for ZergBong, I guess). well it wasnt as if only scrubs played 2v2 back in the day, i remember reach and yellow used to 2v2 for KT and they were pretty good. both were accomplished 1v1 players at the time aswell
Different games though. We can't really compare the current state of SC2 with their state of BW.
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On December 17 2013 00:53 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2013 00:48 hypercube wrote:On December 16 2013 22:49 TT1 wrote:On December 16 2013 22:41 Waxangel wrote:On December 16 2013 22:36 TT1 wrote:On December 16 2013 22:35 Waxangel wrote:
where's the GOD NO option? fuckin traditionalist, get with the times grandpa i'd rather not pros waste their time playing 2v2's solely for PL when there's way more opportunities outside PL in SC2 compared to BW how so? only a small % of koreans play in foreign tourneys and theres only a few leagues in korea. also, i doubt it would have an effect on the higher tier kors seeing as teamplay matches usually involve 2nd tier pros. if anything it just gives lesser known players more exposure Yes, but as long as you play and practice 1v1 there's a hope of eventually becoming that top tier player. Getting assigned to 2v2 is a fucking death sentence career-wise (except for ZergBong, I guess). well it wasnt as if only scrubs played 2v2 back in the day, i remember reach and yellow used to 2v2 for KT and they were pretty good. both were accomplished 1v1 players at the time aswell
Yet I don't see Flash or Stats getting into 2v2, except as a means to extend their career before retirement. It would be a few 2nd tier players or practice partners who would be made to practice 2v2 almost exclusively.
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In WC3 leagues, it was common to have 2v2 included. The format varied but usually it was 4 1v1s, and 1 2v2.
The great thing about 2v2 is obviously that it requires teamwork, but that's what gives Dota and LoL some of their appeal - it gives another layer of depth of strategy. Teamwork requires them to communicate effectively - and this allows them employ/execute their game plan well, as well as adapting on the fly if their plan goes down the tubes.
Some examples of added layers of strategy for 2v2 in WC3: Since you can send money to your teammate, it allowed for variety of roles to be played. If your Orc or NE, you usually were the harasser since Blademaster and DH with hunts were fast and great at harrassing. Since your mainly harassing, you can give your money to your teammate. If you were UD, your teammate would pool you money and you would try to creep and get an unstoppable UD force due to the high dps and synergy of the UD heroes and units. If you were HU, you could most likely fast expand and give that money to teammate when needed. Like Dota, these different roles require a slightly different skillset that has to be practiced.
Another obvious example is the synergy of units from different races allowing for crazy strategies. Ex: HU and NE can do a tower rush since HU can quick build their towers, and NE have towers that can move. Or Orc units supporting UD units since Orc have great caster support units to make UD units last longer to deal out their DPS.
Another example that 2v2 allows is sharing units. This allows the micro ceiling potential to be higher. Ex: When Moon and Grubby played together on MYM, their beginning was harassing all over the place to tax the multi microing of their opponents. It was a great more chaotic then if 1v1. Another Ex: when you are chasing a unit or hero that is red health, your teammate (or you can use their unit) can use a nearby unit to block, as seen in Dota.
Also, surrounds are more dangerous since you can use your teammates' units to surround a hero.
Of course, 2v2 never took precedent over 1v1. 1v1 will always be the main attraction as such in tennis, but still it adds a layer of depth that requires teamwork and communication.
The problem I see with SC2 for 2v2 is that since all-ins are so very powerful in 1v1, it could be impossible to stop all-ins in 2v2. In WC3, each race had a defense in their base to prevent quick rushes/all-in - orc had burrows (supply depot +bunkers), HU had militia, NE had buildings that attacked and moon wells that can heal, UD had supply depots that also act as towers when need. And all races can mass repair.
I missed this preseason event, so I don't know what strategies were employed, but I think this is the main challenge to 2v2 in Sc2 - quick all-ins.
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United Kingdom1381 Posts
I voted yes but the 2v2 scene needs improvement: - Better maps, Alterzim Stronghold is a terrible map as it just encourages cheese to kill off one player. Imagine if they were playing on TPW Mystic instead, where the map is split with destructible rocks and an air blocker, so that it starts out as two 1v1 matches that opens up into a 2v2.
- When Patch 2.1 is released, they could implement a 2v2 mod that bans resource sharing until the 15 minute mark to prevent some extremely imbalanced feeder builds. It could also ban Random race selection to make it easier for teams to defend against specific cheese timings.
- Use GameHeart with stronger colours enabled and use allied colours to make the game easier to observe for spectators (2v2 generally has more action on screen).
- Create a custom 2v2 observing interface to show all the important information on screen (while minimising the various tabs to free up screen space).
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/k4jQvN3.png)
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Of course , diversity is always a good thing . Who cares about balance and shit let the progamers sort that out . If it's good for the fans it's good for them . I wouldn't mind a 3vs3 or 4vs4 implemented from time to time it can't hurt the viewership only promote it . There should be more flexibility in preference in what to watch in SC2 for it to grow . Make the progamers work for their money as an entertainers . I wouldn't mind alternating 1 week with 2vs2 1 week without .
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If any of you watched the MLG 2v2 invites this spring/summer you'd see that pro level 2v2's are actually insanely fun and the strategies arent always rush rush rush
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i really like it , i wish they will add it to the season
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TLADT24920 Posts
yes, with more maps and maybe have it more for fun than actual rankings and such. Maybe like a breather at the end of a day's PL.
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Yes!! I miss the BW 2v2 from the proleague! But something has to be done with the maps, and I do not like ressource sharing to be honest...
But that would be a nice change!
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On December 16 2013 22:41 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2013 22:36 TT1 wrote:On December 16 2013 22:35 Waxangel wrote:
where's the GOD NO option? fuckin traditionalist, get with the times grandpa i'd rather not pros waste their time playing 2v2's solely for PL when there's way more opportunities outside PL in SC2 compared to BW
Really? Way more opportunities? I think it would give many unknown Korean players a chance to contribute in a meaningful way.
I'd really like to hear what opportunities you think these unknown players would have outside PL....
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On December 17 2013 02:26 LongShot27 wrote:
If any of you watched the MLG 2v2 invites this spring/summer you'd see that pro level 2v2's are actually insanely fun and the strategies arent always rush rush rush
Those were super fun!
I personally love playing 2v2, just because there's something so lonely about winning and losing by yourself on ladder. No one to celebrate your victory with, no one to analyze defeat with and bounce ideas off of.
A few simple tweaks could really make competitive 2v2 an easier pill to swallow; use the correct maps, no resource sharing, etc.
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would really like to see 2v2 games in PL.
I had the must fun watching 2v2 during the BW PL then the 1v1 :<
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2v2s were totally fun in CSL, I'm looking forward to this!
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On December 17 2013 03:42 FaCE_1 wrote:
would really like to see 2v2 games in PL.
I had the must fun watching 2v2 during the BW PL then the 1v1 :<
blasphemy --a but ill let it slide this time
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United States33559 Posts
2v2 in BW Proleague became the unofficial division for b-teamers and washouts, devaluing the competition and killing interest by its very nature
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2v2 would be great for Prime they could dedicate to winning that match each week.
I am not sure if it would be that good for teams or players and after the one round of it I don't know if it would be that fun to watch.
But I could be wrong which is why I voted yes
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On December 17 2013 03:43 Waxangel wrote:
2v2 in BW Proleague became the unofficial division for b-teamers and washouts, devaluing the competition and killing interest by its very nature
How so? You can't just say something is devalued and killing interest without some sort of proof.
EDIT: Well, I guess you can say whatever you want, doesn't make it very believable though.
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United States33559 Posts
On December 17 2013 03:46 Ctone23 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2013 03:43 Waxangel wrote:
2v2 in BW Proleague became the unofficial division for b-teamers and washouts, devaluing the competition and killing interest by its very nature How so? You can't just say something is devalued and killing interest without some sort of proof. EDIT: Well, I guess you can say whatever you want, doesn't make it very believable though.
I don't have to cite a fucking academic paper to tell you what happened 10 years ago
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EPT
