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On September 10 2010 17:06 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2010 15:26 Nilaus wrote:
This discussion has nothing to do with the stream quality, capacity or price.
GomTV asked everyone (probably mostly directed at TL) to stop restreaming.
TL should comply without hesitation. TL complied with MLG and ESL, so why are they not respecting the wishes of GSL. MLG and ESL contacted us directly and requested the streams removed, we obliged. I haven't watched any of the GOM casts, so I don't know what has been said or what has not been said on stream, but I do know that GOM have not made any effort to contact us about the restreams despite the fact the have ample means to do so. We are happy to cooperate with them, but they need to open the dialogue first.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=150594¤tpage=88#1749
On September 07 2010 11:19 JunkkaGom wrote:Hello, It has been quite a while since I posted here. It is understandable that many people are looking for an alternative source to watch the games, as our service is still facing many technical difficulties and thus not able to meet your demands. We are putting lot of effort to fix the problems, and although this will take lot of time and resource, we are determined to meet the demands of oversea fans. However, I sincerely advise you to restrain from providing or viewing unathorized restreams. Such act violates our copyright and it will make our job more difficult. The more people watch GSL at http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens1/ the easier it is for us to gain and provide the support we need.
Is that not direct enough?
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On September 10 2010 18:15 cyprin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 11:19 JunkkaGom wrote:
our service is still facing many technical difficulties and thus not able to meet your demands.
Is that not direct enough?
I think you missed a part.
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On September 10 2010 18:55 Grond wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2010 18:15 cyprin wrote:On September 07 2010 11:19 JunkkaGom wrote:
our service is still facing many technical difficulties and thus not able to meet your demands.
Is that not direct enough? I think you missed a part.
I think that doesn't change the fact that streaming copyrighted material is illegal.
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I believe I read the average person breaks 1000 laws per year. I'll break a few less this year to make up for the streamers.
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there are over 6000 people watching restreams of teamliquid so worldwide i bet 10.000-15.000 people at least are watching restreams, thats probably 10-20% of the total GSL viewers outside korea.
gomtv is missing those people on their statistics and they won't improve their server accordingly because of that, and of course its worse for being sponsored . . .
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did one restreamer break 7500?? the servers were overloaded though
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I understand the complaints—I'm glad to have managed to secure a direct stream, despite nothing working the way it should. I couldn't sign onto GomTV.net to pay for the premium stream, or watch the SQ stream. I'm still not watching the stream because I've paid for it—although I would, and gladly; I managed to watch with someone else's key, on VLC.
The difference between GomTV's stream count if a group of people restreams, and the count if those people can't watch, though, is nil. If someone has exhausted all of the options available to them to stream it directly, it doesn't hurt their view count any more to watch a restream.
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Yes. According to the graphs monitoring stream uptime, they were down/maxed for 90% of the total time up through about the 3rd set. I guess people went to bed after TLO because slots opened up for GSL and the restream viewers died down to about 6k.
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TeamLiquid.net is not responsible for the content of individual users streams. If GomTV makes a request to us to remove the user stream links from our calendar, we will oblige, however I think this would hurt them in the long run. As this site shows, the official stream is inaccessible for a large amount of each broadcast, meaning re-streams are the only way people have of watching. The official stream is inaccessible because according to the GomTV site, it is full. I don't see how having re-streams makes any difference to the numbers they report to their sponsor, "our stream was full today" vs "our stream was full today".
Would GomTV for example prefer 5,000 people watching the official stream and 10,000 disappointed fans who can't watch at all, or 5,000 people watching the official stream and 10,000 watching a re-stream? Exposing more people to the content helps promote further viewers and allows fans a way to watch. Preventing anyone from watching anything but the official stream will not generate any new fans and disappoint current fans who are unable to get on the official stream.
We're not trying to defy GomTV by keeping stream links on the calendar; we feel that it is in the best interests of both GomTV and the fans to provide a way to watch the content. The demand for re-streams exists only because the official stream is so unreliable, I would strongly recommend GomTV let re-streams continue until such a point that they are comfortable with their own streaming setup. Killing off re-streams when their own stream is clearly inadequate will only serve to disappoint thousands of fans and generate a lot of negative feelings.
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i think its pretty obvious gom doesnt want the streams linked. its hard to watch tasteless and artosis plead with the viewers and know tl isnt listening : /
the logic here is that the free stream is unreliable, but the free stream was a GIFT, and they lowered the paid price for GSL 60%. I would REALLY like to see TL close the restreams and suggest people pay the $20 if they want to watch GSL. I did, and I havent had a problem with it yet, plus its a great value for the amount of content, and I have the peace of mind knowing I am supporting SC2, and not just leeching and complaining when the companies who make it possible dont bend over backwards and spend alot of money just to fit my non-supportive needs.
this post exempts mac users, but tough love i guess.
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Your post doesn't really except Mac users, since I'm using VLC to good effect.
It should, however, exempt any user who would be willing to pay the $20, but unable; or unable to get GomTV's stream to work. GomTV's accessibility is failing at all levels. Some people can't get the GomTV Player to work, and even if they could, maybe they can't download it. Or maybe they could download it if they could even sign onto GomTV.net. And if they can't sign onto the site, they certainly can't leave feedback on the forums, which seems to be GomTV's preferred method of getting feedback.
One might assume that, although GomTV has said they're aware of the problems with the stream, they're getting all of their negative feedback from people who at least are able to utilize their website.
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I have 20$ ticket but vod quality is discusting, so i watch recorded streams, and untill they change that i will not pay a dime more to them. I am not about to wake up at 5am evey day i got work to go to. And if they cant provide HD vods they can go to HELL.
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The only excuse I find acceptable for watching restreams is if you paid for the HQ stream but for some reason get better/more stable performance out of watching a restream. For those that did not pay, i'm sorry to say it but you are not magically entitled to watch the free stream. It is a goodwill service put in place by gom for the community. This whole 'oh if I could leech the games for free off GOM without reinbursing them in any way at all then I wouldn't watch restreams' arguement is a load of crap.
Slots are full for the free service? tough, better luck the next night tbh. I have seen a marked improvement in the HQ stream over the past couple of nights and I can only assume it's because they have reduced the maximum number of concurrent connections from non paying users. Sorry if it sounds harsh but paying viewers should always have priority over those that don't.
The arguement from TL staff about promoting the restreams until being told not to is also equally rediculous. It's a sponsered tournament where the ability to watch the HQ comes with a price tag. Even if you hadn't noticed the multitude of places where it's been asked not to restream common sense alone would say that Gom would be put out by having said content restreamed.
Off to go download some movies from torrents, after all none of the movie companies have contacted me personally to ask me not to.
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Let's stretch a metaphor, then.
If, at the local movie theater/video-rental, they have you first register to use their rooms, then disavow ever having seen you before, when you present yourself to pay, I think it's reasonable to seek the film elsewhere. The theater owners demand that no one else show their movie, because they need to know if they should open up more screens to the public, but turn several people away at the door, whether they want to pay or not.
It makes no difference that once you get into the theater, the projectors only work half the time; nor is it important that their freebee projector rooms are the size of a broom closet. While the proprietors have a right to show the film exclusively, their system of selling tickets is turning away paying customers, who perforce feel the need to find a bootleg.
Ta-da.
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Problems if you're on a mac? Tough luck. Problems with paying for the premium stream? Tough luck. Free alternative is full? Tough luck. That's supposed to be "supporting E-sports?"
I want to watch these games, and if GOM is too incompetent to make that possible, I'll be forced to seek alternatives. Ultimately, I hope this re-stream issue will open GOM's eyes to the huge market available here, instead of having to resort to impotent posts on their forums that almost certainly won't get read.
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It's funny how you have to do your best to word your argument in a convoluted way to try to make it sound reasonable when all I had to do to explain why it's wrong to to type out the situation plainly. Trying to combine together the situations and experiences of those that paid vs those that didn't in your response is where it starts to become weak.
Arguing about their infrastructure not being up to the task is a perfectly acceptable argument for those that have paid, it is not so acceptable when it is being used to encapsulate the arguement regarding the experience of those that have not.
If you did not pay for a service that was provided out of good will and then ended up recieving the service at a level below your own expectations you are still not entitled to anything.
No paying user has been turned away from goms door, the quality certainly has not matched what has been promised but as a paying user I have yet to be unable to log onto either the HQ or the LQ stream at any time. If you have not paid for the service then you can hardly argue about turning up to a free open to all screening at a movie theatre but found all the seating filled, you just have to wait till the next day/screening to watch the show.
See if you had just written plainly 'I did not pay to watch the stream but think I should be able to watch it at all times whenever I want using whatever means I need to anyway' I would not have had to ramble like that :/ Just be honest, it's cool, personal choice and all that.
All above arguements do not apply to those that have actually paid for the stream, all the people that fall into that catagory are certainly currently being ripped off with the service Gom has provided.
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On September 11 2010 00:20 Brenbenn wrote:
It's funny how you have to do your best to word your argument in a convoluted way to try to make it sound reasonable when all I had to do to explain why it's wrong to to type out the situation plainly. Trying to combine together the situations and experiences of those that paid vs those that didn't in your response is where it starts to become weak.
Arguing about their infrastructure not being up to the task is a perfectly acceptable argument for those that have paid, it is not so acceptable when it is being used to encapsulate the arguement regarding the experience of those that have not.
If you did not pay for a service that was provided out of good will and then ended up recieving the service at a level below your own expectations you are still not entitled to anything.
No paying user has been turned away from goms door, the quality certainly has not matched what has been promised but as a paying user I have yet to be unable to log onto either the HQ or the LQ stream at any time. If you have not paid for the service then you can hardly argue about turning up to a free open to all screening at a movie theatre but found all the seating filled, you just have to wait till the next day/screening to watch the show.
See if you had just written plainly 'I did not pay to watch the stream but think I should be able to watch it at all times whenever I want using whatever means I need to anyway' I would not have had to ramble like that :/ Just be honest, it's cool, personal choice and all that.
All above arguements do not apply to those that have actually paid for the stream, all the people that fall into that catagory are certainly currently being ripped off with the service Gom has provided.
No paying user has been turned away from goms door
I'm sorry but you seem to be arguing with a fundamental misunderstanding of the issues here. Plenty of people have been "turned away" while trying to pay for the high quality streams, myself included. If you had read comprehensively, you wouldn't have had to ramble like that either.
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If you say thats the case then sure that sucks.
But I just quickly scanned the last 10 pages on the gom forum and saw a total of 1 thread commenting on the lack of ability to purchase a one day pass and that user posted soon after saying it was fixed. If plenty of people were suffering this issue I'd expect a lot more noise regarding it to be honest.
Then again maybe I missed a thread somewhere /shrug.
That a few of you have been unable to pay for the HQ stream for this whole time it has been available is down right disgusting I agree. I can understand the servers having issues when under load or having issues with the servers that relay the purchase transaction to paypal but to be down this whole time for you? sheesh.
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I'll speak plainly: The design of GomTV.net is such that many cannot pay for the season ticket. You're certainly right that if one doesn't pay for a service, it is unreasonable to feel entitled to it. Demanding that viewers pay for the service instead of getting it elsewhere, and then disallowing them from paying is likewise unreasonable.
If you are to demand compensation for a service, and admonish those who fail to give compensation, you must be in a position to receive it.
Your argument is not incorrect, but it is incomplete. GomTV is not only offering this service out of goodwill and charity; they stand to benefit from more viewers. They're right to do so, but unreasonable to ask us to support them at the same time as they make it impossible.
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EPT
