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On December 20 2012 23:16 threesr wrote:
So Orangeremi has contributed absolutely nothing for the entire game. Now he may not even make a vote today and hes had a ridiculous amount of time in this game to make a decision. wtf
I believe I tried to address his no-lynch attitude earlier but I got no response and then subsequently gunned down for it. Maybe I should have followed that up?
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Okay I'm off to bed for reals. I look forward to further discourse in the morning 
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On December 20 2012 23:16 threesr wrote:
So Orangeremi has contributed absolutely nothing for the entire game. Now he may not even make a vote today and hes had a ridiculous amount of time in this game to make a decision. wtf
Actually.. I think this is a very clever play. The dust needs to settle and votes need to be given the consideration they deserve.
@Threesr: I also think that this is an extremely ironic statement given your pedigree this game.
Now that I have read the thread.
+ Show Spoiler +I want to congratulate Mafia today. They have really stepped it up a notch in the second 24hr period.
I have read the thread sporadically today, but topics and votes have changed significantly between p24 and p27 etc.
This is exactly the type of confusion mafia need from us to survive. (i.e. have 2 or 3 ppl on the block, so they can spread their votes to hide identity).
I am also surprised strong contributors from the 1st 24hrs have subsided in the second period.
The last thing is: I re-read the OP for roles.
+ Show Spoiler +Out of the 13 roles, the default types of roles is 8 good guys, and (4+1) bad guys (1 = SK).
I have not played this game before, but I am guessing the ratio may be balanced... i.e. 8 townies to 5 mafia.
if we allow variance, it may be 9 townies and 4 mafia. (10/3 sounds way too skewed for town)
My point is: I think there is 4 mafia this game. (Chance of 4 + 1 SK, still equates to 4 mafia)
I am off to building a case.
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Mmm.
Corazon's defense was okay. His reads felt manufactured to me, but I no longer think that he's the scummiest player above FC or Spag.
Aqua, your points against Spag are really good. His refusal to pressure anyone at any point, while still "contributing", is something that scum would do. Add this to his total 180 on Corazon for bad reasons and I think there's a good chance that he'll flip scum. Also, it's super scummy how he starts pressuring someone right when the pressure is turned up on him. Why start contributing just now. I'm going to examine him more closely when I get home.
Right now, I think I want to lynch FatChunk. He has:
- posted tons of fluff about "environments for scum to thrive"
- not posted unless he's under pressure
- responded extremely sarcastically and defensively to some normal questions
If y'all won't go for FatChunk, though, I'm willing to go for Spag.
@Spag
Would you lynch FatChunk?
##Unvote
##Vote: FatChunk
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@Mocsta
Please do build a case, your comments so far have been mostly useless.
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Actually, after looking at Corazon's defense again, I don't like it. His reads are terrible. He puts Aqua as probable scum and says that Spag is the best player this game? He puts half the people as possible scum to make sure that he can keep his options open. He says that FatChunk is probably town?
I'll keep my vote on FC right now, but any of these three (Corazon/FC/Spag) has a good chance of flipping scum.
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Alright. This will be my first time doing anything with multiple posts in it let alone have it be this big... if I mess up and hide anything in spoilers I apologize in advance lol 
+ Show Spoiler +On December 20 2012 23:20 Spaghetticus wrote:Bugger tomorrow IDGAF Show nested quote +To play devils advocate for Theesr on his stance on lurkers. I could see scum using LAL to their advantage and making us waste most of D1 while they play it safe and then bandwagon a lurker, we lynch said lurker he turns up to be town and if things have really gone poorly we learn nothing and scum comes out ahead of us on D1.
I agree with Kickstart entirely when he says we should push scum reads over policy lynches. Truthfully I'm more worried about anybody who thinks we should lynch lurkers without second thought. While I actually liked the last part and even took a note in the satisfactory column, Omni does little here but say a bunch of safe stuff. He came across as a little bold when he proclaimed his disapproval of thoughtless lynching, but in retrospect this is actually a very safe move.
ty, ofc. I'm going to play safe in my first game as VT in mafia.
+ Show Spoiler +(points finger at Threesr and Corazon)
Another safe play. These guys were destined to get it. I predicted the shitstorm (though admittedly I named Shz as well), if the info was available to me it was available to Omni. Targeting the weaker town is a move that a scum naturally does whether they are new or not. What would you do if you were scum?
I'd play the same way I am right now but wouldn't have switched my vote from Corazon. Draws unneeded attention. As well as advise my team mates not to make any large plays until day 2 and if possible and there are 3 scum discuss throwing one under the bus themselves N2/D3 to establish one or both of the other scum as good townies. imo pretty basic stuff.
+ Show Spoiler +If he latched onto Corazon because he realized he would be extremely easy to put him under suspicion. (followed by Corazon actually stating he's Mafia) I can't really see Corazon being town but if he is and has just made every mistake he could then my reason behind Theesr being shitty town would disappear and he would become my #1 scum read instead of #1 shitty town
See how if Corazon comes up innocent (which I think he will) then Omni has set the stage to move onto the next easiest player. Even if these players were scum they would pose very little threat. This is positioning for an incredibly strong day three for the mafia, leaving 2-3 strong players, a bunch of lurkers, and zero leads.
I've already thought about what happens if Corazon comes up innocent and shz and myself had a nice talk about that earlier. The information we get if he is innocent would still help town. I also like how you take a post from early on in the game and apply its rationale to a point after we have more information.
+ Show Spoiler +Also Chunk is the only one who has tried to defend Corazon but hasn't come completely out and said he thinks he's innocent, just that with ALL the evidence he still can't vote for him? I'm going to stick with Corazon as my #1 scum read but Chunk seems suspicious just based on that to me.
More bagging on the lowest players. The big three are common knowledge and a safe sell at the point of writing the above quote. Omni continues to say absolutely nothing at all risky. He is waiting for things to be safe and then stating the obvious. He openly displays all the signs of posing bluster I resent to demonstrate myself.
Why be risky when I am town. scumhunt and give my input is all I've been doing so far in D1. You caught me. doing my role as I intended.
+ Show Spoiler +If anybody can clearly give us a way to gain more information while at the same time getting rid of suspicion of Corazon I am all for it. I don't want to lynch somebody who could be town just because we all tunnel him. Let's try and get some information from other lurkers. What do they think of the current situation ect.
See this? This is someone that has the gall to ask for someone to do the very thing I have been doing, then nails me for it (but only after someone else does... can't be too safe).
Clear difference in somebody who scumhunts and somebody who has posted fluff all game, gets voted on for it, and for his defense posts more pointless fluff that doesn't answer anything. What information have you given us exactly? have you seen the results of all of your posts? Any information come out of them? nope.
+ Show Spoiler +This defense of his vote almost seems like he's committing to a lynch, until you realise he was just waiting for a better lynch for scum to present itself. Yes I believe I'm a bigger prize than Corazon's entirely compromised town play, because I have a better position, and because I play more like a blue role would (less aggression).
I still believe he's scum. There is no better lynch than scum. Other scum =/= better.
+ Show Spoiler +
I was ready to tunnel Corazon until your horrid defense to Aqua's case. 100% believe he is scum. Doesn't mean I'm not going to look for other scum though.
My defense was not horrid. I take offense.
You repeat everything that he is attacking you for. it's horrible. If it wasn't I wouldn't need to be typing right now.
+ Show Spoiler +and if by bandwagon you mean make the case and stick with it for 30~ hours while continuing to bring up new material that hasn't been said. Yup total bandwagon. I ignore the original vote on him as a way to gauge how he reacts and gets conversation started. He slips - argues with Threesr and then I make the 3rd vote on him (2nd with evidence) and push for others to also vote and put pressure on him.
On a person which the zeitgeist favours as a bandwagon. I don't care how long you spent blustering at the obvious pickups of non-town behaviour. The guy's level of play was inadequate and the case made itself. Do you really think his door would not have been knocked down without you? He was in for pressure, from you or otherwise. You wasted your time while pretending to contribute. Scummy.
pretending to contribute - putting out information nobody has stated yet and clearly YOU missed his slip.
.+ Show Spoiler +I don't think I have to play this game at a higher level than simple. It establishes me as town, helps in scum hunts and I give my input about how people are acting and how I feel about them. Why would I try to be more complex than that in my first game? I'd just confuse people and myself.
"I don't know if I'm doing the right thing, so I will assume that I am and not try to improve my play, as playing dumb will convince people I'm town."
I know I'm playing D1 1st mafia game ever, I also know I have absolutely no feedback on my play so far. I also know I've built a case based on Corazon both being scum and flipping VT for information (again you are more than welcome to see shz's post for that) I said it myself but it wasn't very clear. He made it make a lot more sense.
+ Show Spoiler +am actually genuinely impressed with your expression here, regardless of your alignment. The problem I have is that you are pushing to lynch me and my two best town reads because of your failure to look deeper. Try harder.
When you address me or speak of me in any way, please refrain from throwing emotional garbage about. It makes me like you more if you don't. Tell me what's wrong with what I said, not how wrong it is. Words without reason are meaningless fluff, or peripheral associative priming depending on who the listener is. A townie should have logic behind his claims.
Or just not give any input at all and pretend to be helping I guess. Then get called out for it and still post the fluff you hate. I didn't get emotional stop getting so defensive because I called your defense trash. which it was. Horrid really.
+ Show Spoiler +Rebuke of Mocsta's Early Town Tells:
He was potentially misleading town, and setting himself up to take control. I stopped him the same way I did SS, though I did not make a case out of it because there wasn't one.
Theory of Town and Scum:
I have not stated my thoughts but that does not mean I haven't devoted a lot of time developing them. I'm confirming with a large degree of confidence that neither Threesr nor Corazon are scum. This degree of confidence is a big deal for a meticulous SOAB like me. I've determined that Chromatiacally, Aquinim, Cakepie, and Mocsta will need to be dealt with later rather than now if they happen to be scum. That's narrowed the list of lynchable candidates down to six for me, this is no small analysis! Your assertion that I have not developed any theory is BS. Rather than flaunt every thought that tickles my ol' brain I know my understanding will only get better with time, and voting now is pretentious or whimsical.
Asking Kickstart for meta reads:
You say this wasn’t useful. Surely you could see the potential of such a move? I am lighting a fire under a lurker, and attempting to mine a new vein of data. As far as post efficiency goes you can’t fault me on this.
“So Spag thinks that the best way to get town back to scumhunting is to defend someone under pressure, not make a case himself? Words fail me.”
In this particular instance this is exactly what I thought. I don’t have any really solid cases, I am still narrowing down suspects. Any case I would post at that point would likely fall on deaf ears and I really believed I could benefit town by taking pressure off of the obvious targets and spreading the suspicion around.
"Spag's whole "I'm defending Corazon but still happy to vote for him" BS is a classic scum move too - keeping his options open for new developments so he doesn't have to contradict himself later. I'm not saying that town would never do this, but it's pretty damn scummy."
I am no longer happy to vote for Corazon which I believe I expressed in the same post. Through writing the post I came to the conclusion that he is the towniest person here, and I will stand by that statement. I am sorry I did not go back through and edit for consistency, I was tired after doing a LOT of legwork for this game. You’re welcome.
Where in that is anything not just smoke and mirrors? You don't answer a single thing. You still don't take a firm stance on anything other than ignoring other reads, that you have stayed consistent with, and you still don't offer any scum hunting but instead you say you still don't have enough information to even post on who you think might be scum.
You were called out, I didn't think much of it, you returned with nothing, I voted. Aqua's case against you was much stronger than your defense of yourself.
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On December 20 2012 17:51 Spaghetticus wrote:
I want responses particularly from those people voting for him. I also want activity that is centered around someone other than Corazon and Threesr. It is that are avoiding the dispute that you need to look for.
I feel like this is the best course of action right now. Why don't you guys search for someone who is good at hiding their true and pick out their post instead of trying to lynch the noobs Day 1. You guys should vote us off when the time is better, and get rid of the true threats before they have a chance to be a true part of the game (because remember, it is only Day 1). For now, I would still like to go the pacifist route.
##Unvote
##Vote: No-Lynch
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On December 20 2012 19:36 Aquanim wrote:A real case: SpaghetticusSpaghetticus is posting reasonably and being nice. In fact, he's being too nice. He hasn't accused anyone at all of anything. He hasn't expressed any suspicions of any other player, or posted any analysis. In fact, he hasn't done anything useful for the town at all, while still looking active, and that is textbook scum. - Spaghetticus has been posting rationally... on defending other players, instructing other players, policy, and Mafia theory. THIS IS NOT A TOWNTELL.
- Spaghetticus has not made any cases on scum.
- Spaghetticus keeps telling everyone else to make cases on scum.
- Spaghetticus has not searched for scum. He has applied no pressure and asked almost no questions.
So using your brain automatically makes you mafia? You have been posting rationally with your last couple of posts, does that make you Mafia.
If you think he hasn't suspected anyone, read his long post in my defense. He said that I was still probably Mafia, but that you guys should not pursue me Day 1, as there were better Mafia players hidden in the shadows that you should have tried to confront to prevent them from having a bigger influence on the game.
Lecturing other players isn't all that useful. Nobody has said anything useful at this point though.
So no one has said anything useful at all? Then why am I on the chopping block? Are you guys admitting that there is no good reason that I'm up here? (Disregard this if that post was in the quoted one, I wasn't sure).
More fluff, and inviting other players to clog the thread. An unsubtle buddy to Cakepie for good measure.
So you are proposing that cakepie is another scum? I would like to see you investigate that further. In the beginning the thread was all fluff, and if I don't recall, I got 2-3 votes because I did not answer the "fluff" question to a satisfactory degree.
Some serious hypocrisy here:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 12:51 Spaghetticus wrote:
Cheers Omni and Chroma.
Things seem to have died down, I might head to the gym.
We still have three people with no posts, if you are one of them I suggest you make a big and informative post after reading through everything that has been posted this game. Try and have questions for the players that have been posting, and develop a theory of who is town and scum. You are late to the part y but you can still be valuable and productive town. So he wants people to "develop a theory of town and scum" without doing anything of the sort himself? This is what first set off my alarm bells.
He has developed a theory of town and scum. It is day 1, you're not going to catch all of the scum in Day 1. He doesn't want to be the only one making reads, which since then most of us have made reads.
Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 20:34 Spaghetticus wrote:
I just looked though everyone's filters and took some notes. I have a terrible memory and find it gives some context to the names I try so hard to remember. If you find it difficult to associate a person's name with their actions so far, I suggest you look through their filter in order to put a face to the name, and prevent them lurking past you.
I will now try and compile a synopsis before bed. Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 21:02 Spaghetticus wrote:
Lurkers:
Threesr: He seems to want to defend lurking, which is really weird. Only contribution to date is disputing LAL.
Cakepie: One very solid post. Would like to see more, though I think you have contributed more than a few other people here.
Orange: Very little substance so far.
Fatchunk: One post.
Kickstart: Two posts.
Sylencia: Seems to want to contribute, but is struggling.
Corazon: One post.
Shz: low contribution, attempts to stimulate discussion have been weak.
So we have a bit of a lurker problem. Some of you I think will have no problem increasing production, but some others seem reluctant. If all you have done is discuss LAL policy up to this point, you need to contribute more. Give us your scummy reads if you have any. I would put money on the day1 lynch being one of the names I just mentioned, please try and make sure it’s not you. At this moment in time my prediction is that either Corazon, Shz, or Threesr will get bandwagoned.
Anyone can compose a list of lurkers. Still no town motivation here.
Why are you analyzing his first posts. This was before you started head hunting and turned this into the French Revolution, so I believe noting who has not posted is not a useless thing to do, and could definitely be a town action in my eyes.
I would analyze more, but I need to get to school.
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To any townies: no lynch is a terrible idea. If we have a no lynch, we are just at d2 in the same position that we are now, minus one nk. Put your vote on a scum read instead of a no lynch.
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On December 21 2012 00:09 Chromatically wrote:
Actually, after looking at Corazon's defense again, I don't like it. His reads are terrible. He puts half the people as possible scum to make sure that he can keep his options open.
Why is keeping my options open bad? If I dismiss everyone as town or scum, that just gives the chance of someone flying under the radar later and going unscathed while we kill each other off.
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On December 21 2012 00:37 Chromatically wrote:
To any townies: no lynch is a terrible idea. If we have a no lynch, we are just at d2 in the same position that we are now, minus one nk. Put your vote on a scum read instead of a no lynch.
Well you know who my scum read is then.
##unvote
##Vote: Threesr
Let's get rid of him now before you let him fly under the radar. I'm going to stay on the radar, I guarantee that, he won't.
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Can you make a case for why threesr is mafia? With actual analysis of his posts?
If threesr isn't getting enough votes, would you lynch FC or Spag?
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I was about to re-read the thread. And when refreshed caught this pearler from Spag.
##Unvote
PART1: Spag's -> Town Read Associations
+ Show Spoiler +On December 20 2012 23:20 Spaghetticus wrote:Omni -> SpagShow nested quote +I don't think I have to play this game at a higher level than simple. It establishes me as town, helps in scum hunts and I give my input about how people are acting and how I feel about them. .... ... [Spag] .... The problem I have is that you are pushing to lynch me and my two best town reads because of your failure to look deeper. Try harder. ... A townie should have logic behind his claims. @SpaghettiI am going to associate your two best town reads as "Threesr and Corozon" You may say I implied the relationship to Threesr and Corozon. I refer you to the prior post. + Show Spoiler +On December 20 2012 21:20 Spaghetticus wrote:
Theory of Town and Scum:
I'm confirming with a large degree of confidence that neither Threesr nor Corazon are scum. This degree of confidence is a big deal for a meticulous SOAB like me.
I think it is safe to conclude... your two *BEST* town reads are Threesr and Corozon.
[Fluff comment] Interesting... lets investigate this deeper.
Part 2: History behind Spags Town Reads
+ Show Spoiler +I am now going to quote from your filter chronologically. I look forward to your retort. (1) + Show Spoiler +On December 20 2012 13:34 Spaghetticus wrote:
@Corazon
The information is there for the reading.
... Despite your play being scummy, I would prefer someone else get the lynch... (2) + Show Spoiler +On December 20 2012 17:51 Spaghetticus wrote:
In defence of Corazon:
I conduct this defence with the caveat that I don’t actually think Corazon is innocent. I have a scum read on him, though I lack the confidence some of you display. (3) To ensure I am quoting fairly and to reason, here is one now claiming bad townie. + Show Spoiler +On December 20 2012 19:27 Spaghetticus wrote:
..Threesr and Conazon ..
While I am not saying that there is absolutely zero chance of these players being scum, I think that the information available points to them just being bad town. (4)This one is nice... + Show Spoiler +On December 20 2012 21:20 Spaghetticus wrote:
A scum Spag would do everything in his power to appear useful while hindering town. I have gone out of my way to help town in ways that are not directly measurable. Have I even tried to sway the vote of anyone other than away from Threesr and Corazon? I have only tried to optimise town as a whole at the expense of personal survivability.
(5) & lastly to re-enforce the message + Show Spoiler +On December 20 2012 23:20 Spaghetticus wrote:
The problem I have is that you are pushing to lynch me and my two best town reads because of your failure to look deeper. Try harder.
Part3: Logic behind his claims
Spaghetticus wrote:A townie should have logic behind his claims.
I agree. Let us examine each of the 5 quotes.
(1)
+ Show Spoiler +
Fact:
- Acknowledgement of Corozon being scummy
- Recommends to lynch someone else, with no rationale?
Motive:
- Realises Corozon slipped as Mafia, and is attempting to distance himself.
- Is trying to take focus off Corozon simultaneously. Why would a townie want to lynch someone else, if the scum is confirmed? Our goal is to lynch scum. Full stop.
(2)
+ Show Spoiler +
Fact:
- Again acknowledges Corozon is NOT innocent.
Motive:
- Realises Corozon is set for the lynch. Is attempting to bus his brethren.
(3)
+ Show Spoiler +Fact: - Now considers Threesr and Corozon as bad townie. Motive: Spag is setting up for his long wall of text defense, and is planting the seed that Corozon is townie. As Spag says later On December 20 2012 19:27 Spaghetticus wrote:
how long until lynching? I need to plan logistics.
(4)
+ Show Spoiler +
Fact:
- Scum Spag would do everything to hinder town [Guess what, you are by defending Corozon who not been able to mount a solid defense]
-Has gone out way to help town in ways not measureable [Exactly, because the help is "negatively" off the charts..]
- Admits, sole focus has been on protecting Threesr and Corozon
- Admits attempts to manipulate town for his survival.
Motives:
- Agreed and you are. You are playing a very good passive-aggressive role and are hindering town by defending Corozon and then FOS Omni in a OMGUS response.
- Agreed. Your help to town is not measureable, because its "negatively" off the charts...
- Realises we are onto the full mafia crew of at least (Threesr, Corozon and Spag) and is trying to repair a sinking ship
Alternatively, Corozon is a mafia with a role, and will be valuable for the night phase.
- Fantastic choice of words. I agree he is trying to optimise town. But for whose benefit...I think this is the final take away that Spag (& co.) is mafia.
Town are not interested in their own survival. We win if town wins.
Town needs the scum hunt. Town needs to lynch scum.
(5)
+ Show Spoiler +
Fact:
- Spag acknowledges Threesr/Corozon now as best town reads
Motives:
- Now that big wall of text is posted, and some may follow his band wagon. He is trying to influence others that Threesr/Corozon are town.
[Fluff] The last rope for the Spag noose is:
+ Show Spoiler +On December 19 2012 11:00 Spaghetticus wrote:
. Do not be under the impression that (wordcount) = (town behaviour) Ironic, considering the wordcount used for his defense on Corozon...
Overall: I agree with the excellent case Aquanim put forward.
Non of Spags work as evidenced by Aqua or myself go towards aiding town.
I implore us townies to band together and share our vote with Aquanim.
##Vote: Spaghetticus
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On December 20 2012 18:37 Aquanim wrote:
EBWOP to emphasise this:
Mocsta, what is your current read on Shz?
Personally I dont want to comment on this issue now. As I don't want to detract from the case against Spaghetticus.
If you insist on my comments to Shz, I will comply when I wake up ~= 1hr before the deadline (I think..)
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On December 20 2012 13:03 Chromatically wrote:
@Mocsta
Comments on Corazon/FC after my cases?
Same as with Aqua. I would rather comment when the dust has settled on Spaghetticus
I learnt from Day 1 0-24hr, that posts can get lost in a sea of other posts.
I think it is critical that people read and digest what Aquanim proposed, and then others (including myself) re-enforced.
Again, if you must have my commentary prior to lynch deadline, I will do my best to output this.
In case this creates a new page
Aquanim case against Spag
Mocsta Case against Spag
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Germany2686 Posts
Before I'm on the road for most of the day before the lynch:
1. We should not assume someone is playing bad or good because of information from sources outside this game. I don't think this is very worthy of discussion. For all we know everybody could be a smurf, played with a smurf before, or just played somewhere else. Don't assume anything, look at their actions in this game.
2. It is too early to discuss possible SK. We don't know if this role is even in this game. We should stick to looking for scum for now.
3. New development!
- So, Carazon is on the verge of getting lynched today and Spaghetticus comes out of nowhere to help. What does that mean?
Either Carazon is Scum, Spaghetti is not, both are or neither is. If Spaghetti is scum, Carazon is too. Otherwise it does not make sense to help him/her out. But this does not help us very much. So the question is if we should change from Carazon to someone else?
What are the argument for not voting Corazon Spaghetti provided:
- Statistics: This does not matter at all. If there is a 75% propability for the wrong lynch in day it stays the same whether we Lynch Cora or anyonw else.
- Votes arent locked, wie can always change Thema before the deadline.
- There is still discussion going on. Cora defended, people analyized. We are not just stopping to post just because Cora is the target at the moment.
I'm not convinced by Spaghettis arguments. Art the Moment I can see him as scum too. I'm not ruling out voting him out.
- Aquanim changes his vote from Corazon to make a case against Spaghetti.
While I agree that Spaghetti is possible scum, the argument that rational posts = scum is dumb.
If anything overly emotional argumemts are Moore scum.
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On December 21 2012 01:57 shz wrote:
...
I'm not convinced by Spaghettis arguments. Art the Moment I can see him as scum too. I'm not ruling out voting him out.
- Aquanim changes his vote from Corazon to make a case against Spaghetti.
While I agree that Spaghetti is possible scum, the argument that rational posts = scum is dumb.
If anything overly emotional argumemts are Moore scum.
Great to hear your input Shz!
I think it is of benefit to find holes in the logic of Aqua or myself. If we left a stone unturned, I will learn something to make my next cases even stronger.
Considering Spaghetticus does not appear online... May i ask you to fulfill the role Spaghetticus played for Corazon? i.e. Take my case, and mount a defense for Spaghetticus?
Mocsta Case against Spag
If you need a refresher on Aquas case.. try here..Aquanim case against Spag
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Why shoud shz defend Spag? Let Spag defend himself.
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Upfront disclosure: Had an unexpectedly long day today due to complications with consular/visa stuff that needs to be done ahead of my return trip across the pond. Will be occupied early tomorrow dealing with this as well, followed by social obligations -- but will definitely aim to get some solid content in around 5 hours before end of N1.
It has taken a large chunk of the evening for me to catch up with all the posts since I was last in here, taking notes, etc. It is 0100 KST as I start drafting this post (excludes newer posts from consideration), and I have now pretty much made up my mind for D1.
It is late and I need to get an early start to tomorrow as well, so forgive me for not addressing the status of every player (compared to my previous posts). But the important bits are definitely here.
-----
As I did my catch-up reading I grew increasingly suspicious at the lack of pressure being applied from Spaghetticus. His response to my questioning is that he wanted to wait until he had a >30% scummy read on someone, but that is followed by some 15 or so posts in which little real pressure is applied on anyone.
He tries to coax threesr and corazon to not OMGUS and to pick and stick to a read. Then presses OmniEulogy to diversify his suspects list, and asks OrangeRemi and Sylencia to step things up without any questioning of substance.
I refuse to believe that Spaghetticus can have nothing of worth to bring to the table in that 8-hour duration.
Of course, following that is the defence of Corazon as the votes got stacked up to a dangerous number of 6+fos.
Aquanim builds a thorough and well-considered case, and that I agree with all of it.
One thing I can add is that I am watching how others react to my choice of playstyle, and compared to everyone else who generally addresses my (early) play only in passing, or only addresses me directly in response to my questions, Spaghetticus comes across as conspicuously eager to seem chummy with me (but also deliberately cautiously so, under the caveat that I am leaving a trail if he later deems a need to consider if I am scummy or not.) This is anomalous and I do not like the vibe that it gives me, considering the various possible motives for such behavior.
The only thing he has going for him is the lack of OMGUS, but he jolly well can't do that if he preached against it earlier! Consequently, he still has not voted yet, and it is now getting late in D1.
##Unvote
##Vote: Spaghetticus
On December 20 2012 23:54 Chromatically wrote:
If y'all won't go for FatChunk, though, I'm willing to go for Spag.
Let's do this thing for reals.
The only votes left on Corazon are threesr, shz, Sylencia. Two of those I will not take too seriously, and shz voted there as an overnight placeholder pending later consideration.
@Spaghetticus out with your reads, if you are town and we are all terribly mistaken. It may not save you, but it will help the common town wincon when you get mislynched. There is no time to wait for >30% scummy or whatever now.
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Reminder: these still stand from my earlier post.
##FOS: threesr
##FOS: cDgCorazon
threesr has posted more, albeit abrasive, lazy, and chaotic. but it is marginally better than before. I can understand his play from a lazy angle, but I still do not approve of it. willing to see if there is a further effort at improvement.
My FoS on cDgCorazon has strengthened at the attack on Aquanim's case in lieu of defending Spaghetticus. (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17302166) He has also failed to address my questions adequately. Q1 was ignored, and his answer to Q2 (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17295870) is hardly informative as by the time he posted that response, threesr had posted quite a bit as well as voted several times.
Furthermore it is notable that the only votes left on threesr as I write this are corazon and fatchunk, both of whom picked him for being an easy target early on. (Don't forget that fatchunk is also under suspicion as well. I don't FoS him yet, but he has stayed firmly in the scummier half of my semi-ordered players list.)
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Additionally,
##FOS: OrangeRemi although I unvoted. I can understand some reasons/motivation why you might be cautious, and am willing to wait to see what you can bring to the table N1/D2. But do not test my patience too much. Also, as chromatically already explained, no lynch leaves us with no info and down at least one from N1 scum kp -- please do not no lynch.
##FOS: Kickstart the lack of activity from him has gotten to the point of really uncharacteristic compared to his earlier games. Other than spaghetticus, only he has yet to vote. Give us something to work with soon, otherwise be prepared for further scrutiny. And please do not get modkilled -- if you are town, we'd like to see you put your past experience to work.
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It is late now and I need to be out and about early tomorrow. Depending on whether I manage to drag myself out of bed, I may or may not be able to pop in around 2h before lynch (before I need to head out). Regardless, with the information at hand now, we should be on track for a lynch of Spaghetticus or cDgCorazon, with FatChunk earmarked for scrutiny next. I am satisfied with how things stand, at 6 hours to go. If this is headed for a mislynch, I trust spaghetticus will keep his head on, do the right thing and give us as much to work with as possible.
(side note: good to see a less frenetic mocsta. keep it up.)
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EPT
