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A basic run down of this game and why you always need to look at day one again.
+ Show Spoiler [full role list] +Scum
FatChuck is a Goon
cDgCorazon is a Roleblocker
Kickstart is a Framer
Town
Chromatically - RB
Mocsta - JK
Orangeremi - DT
shz - VT
OmniEulogy - VT
cakepie - VT
Spaghetticus - VT
threesr - VT
Aquanim - VT
Sylencia - VT
This game had one of the most itneresting day ones I have seen in a newbie game, usually when a scum comes under heavy fire you see them lynched as oats was the game before this. cDgCorazon managed to escape the lynch and become a town read to everyone simply for not being lynched. Of the many thing town should take away from this allow me to suggest re-read day one that will give you a lot of hints. The bit where Cora claimed scum especially should not go unnoticed.
On December 20 2012 13:27 cDgCorazon wrote:
Sigh, I thought this was newbie Mafia, and all of you seem to be using strategies that newbie Mafia players shouldn't know. TL Mafia surfs, maybe?
as well as these posts in his day one
On December 20 2012 06:20 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 06:18 threesr wrote:
Oh look hes going to vote me, what a surprise. Why shouldn't I vote for you if all I get is sarcastic replies?
On December 20 2012 06:16 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 06:12 Aquanim wrote:My first OMGUS vote. What joy. @Corazon: You can't deny that our discussion has become a lot more worthwhile in terms of looking for scum (as opposed to discussing policy) since I voted you, which was my intention. As for why I voted you as opposed to a "lurker", I don't believe there are any lurkers until 24 hours have passed (to give everyone in every time zone an opportunity). You had had a significant amount of time to post (and had made a fair few posts, too), and none of them were constructive at all. In my eyes, that's just as bad as a lurker, if not worse. My vote will stick for the moment, but if you continue to post constructively I imagine I'll take it off after work. Town benefits from day one discussion, and the only way to generate that really is with a day one lynch. Besides, scum is catchable day one. especially @ Aquanim, Chromatically, Kickstart, Spaghetticus, shz
Q: what do you think of mocsta’s flurry of posts and vote switch? Is he merely overly excited, or could there be merit in the accusation that his incessant questions were noise without substance? I am distinctly unimpressed with mocsta's posting so far, but not certain it makes him scum. I'll reread him again when I get home.
I respect that, my offer to unvote you if you unvote me is still on the table. I feel like we should pursue threesr more. His posts have been uninformational and useless, and now he's making sarcastic remarks about suspicion on him instead of having posts with substance. Have you given up already threesr?
the first of these posts is actually a scumclaim. I'm not really sure how it got overlooked totally in this game but it got Cora yelled at a lot. the second two are very good examples of scum looking to park their vote somewhere but not thinking the person they are voting for is scum since scum on a mislynch know they are attacking a townie their knowledge will often shine through, it is that knowledge which they shouldn't have which you should pressure them on; if you ever see a vote like the ones above consider why the player is voting for who they are voting and try voting them. Cora also talked about his credibility and image, this is generally a scum tell as townies don't really care what they look like.
This is a great segue into mentality, townies and scummers have different goals. A townie wants to lynch scum while scum want to survive. That difference in mindset allows you, the townie, to find sccuma nd it allows you, the scummer, to hide. Both sides need to work on this, town should try to find those whose mindset is wrong while scum need to appear to have a townie mindset.
This town had some clear monsters in it playing great games, it was a shame that besides Cora no one one the red side of things stepped up to combat them, mafia gains a lot by working together and they lost that advantage when cDg had to work essentially on his own. Mafia players should take Cora's example and learn from it, you don't have to be pro-town to be seen as town, you just have to try. The mafia need to make good night kills in a game like this and N1 pointed to some excellent blue sniping, with the hit on Mocsta and the OE frame. However from there the blue hits went the way of the whales. As someone has already mentioned in the post game, it was possible for scum to figure out that Chrom was town RB and they should have done so. Always analyze all of the information at your disposal. You never know what might make the difference.
This was a game won as much by scum inaction as town ingenuity. As scum you need to have a thread presence and you need to take control early. Only cDg attempted to do this and because he had only one voice and no supporting cast he was totally marginalized, he could not push his agenda without outing himself unduly. The onus is on the scum to take control and not simply hope that town is bad; while town sometimes is bad you can also see towns like xxx where everyone was super townie and scum were destroyed. Just as scum must be active participants so must town, it is vital to the success of your team that you are active and involved in the thread. By not being active you are excusing yourself from the game and hoping one of your teammates wins it for you.
I don't have personal advice for any of you, although given how long this has taken me I have coached many of you in other games and some of you are playing regular games now. My main advice is bolded and should be easy to find. Overall I felt town played well this game but probably would have lost if Yamato did not replace Threesr, without him scum could (and probably would) have killed aqua on night two and chrom on night three by which point cDg would have been the strongest 'townie' remember guys, replacements OP.
+ Show Spoiler [night actions] +
N1:
Mocsta: JK Cakepie
Chromatically: RB Omni
Orangeimi: check Omni
cDg: RB shz
cDg: kill Mocsta
N2:
Corazon RB's Cakepie
Kick frames Fatchuck
Cora: kill yamato
orange: Check Sylencia
Chrom: rb orange
N3:
Orange: check Syl
Chrom: rb FatChuck
Cora: kill Aqua
Cora: rb Syl
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awww shit yeah I totally planned out that top page snipe.
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Australia2849 Posts
Thanks Prom.
On January 23 2013 10:10 Promethelax wrote:
Overall I felt town played well this game but probably would have lost if Yamato did not replace Threesr, without him scum could (and probably would) have killed aqua on night two and chrom on night three by which point cDg would have been the strongest 'townie' remember guys, replacements OP.
I'd like to think that if Threesr hadn't been replaced by someone like Yamato but Orange hadn't been modkilled that his cop checks and Cakepie could still have carried it home, but I guess we'll never know 
When you point out Corazon's play day one it looks obvious... :/ I still find it difficult to tell scum from a town that just doesn't know better.
Didn't Kick frame Omni night one?
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On January 23 2013 16:19 Aquanim wrote:
Didn't Kick frame Omni night one?
Yes he did.
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Thanks for the writeup, Prom!
On January 23 2013 16:19 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 10:10 Promethelax wrote:
Overall I felt town played well this game but probably would have lost if Yamato did not replace Threesr, without him scum could (and probably would) have killed aqua on night two and chrom on night three by which point cDg would have been the strongest 'townie' remember guys, replacements OP.
I'd like to think that if Threesr hadn't been replaced by someone like Yamato but Orange hadn't been modkilled that his cop checks and Cakepie could still have carried it home, but I guess we'll never know
I'm fairly certain we'd still have tried to lynch Kickstart on D3 without Yamato replacing in -- I know that was my intention after reflecting on D2 -- but I can't be certain that we'd manage to take him down without the added impetus that Yamato provided. As it was it did come down to the wire; we very nearly mislynched Shz.
Also if Threesr did not get replaced out but stayed in the game, I think he would have been a distracting, if not destructive presence, and it would be quite likely for us to waste a lynch on him at some point in days 3~5. Seriously, replacement OP.
As for solving the game based on cop checks, I don't think it would have been likely at all -- investigations were very effectively stifled N1+2, and Orange certainly could not come out with a cop claim on D4 since he had hardly any useful information, plus the fact that we'd already lost our only protective role, the JK, when mocsta died N1. Also note that this hinges greatly on a successful lynch of Kickstart D3, otherwise the cop checks could not be trusted -- Orange himself knew there was a framer in play based on the Omni mislynch.
Furthermore, Orange had pretty poor towncred by D4, due to voting with Kickstart, it would have been really hard to turn that sentiment around, he'd have had to step up his play incredibly to pull it off. On the other hand if things happened differently he might not have been under such heavy suspicion on D4, so who knows?
Rather than Cop powers, I think it was roleblocks that played a far greater role in this game. In any case, Threesr staying in game would have given us quite a different dynamic, so it is really hard to speculate about what might have happened in that case.
Last thing: you give me waaay too much credit, I nearly screwed us over with that last minute stuff. Seriously, Chromaticity had Corazon nailed even before I did, plus he used his role well; he really should get more props for that.
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11589 Posts
Cakepie, you were excellent as town, don't talk yourself down.
So were you, Aqua.
Honestly, when I replaced into the game I immediately wrote you guys off as possible mafias. Chrom was a more difficult decision but I saw how emotionally involved he was, despite being dead wrong about Omni.
Corazon played a really good mafia game after day 1. That being said, his day 1 was atrocious and you guys should have lynched him for it. After day 1, however, I believe he was still able to be caught because of how he played around the OE lynch.
On December 24 2012 01:26 cDgCorazon wrote:
Right now, I am still suspicious of Shz and Orangeremi. However, I feel like their defenses to my accusations have been decent enough to buy them some more time, at least one more night. I do feel like Omni is suspicious as well, claiming VT, calling me and Spag 100% scum (Spag flipped town, not 100% scum eh), and Mocsta's thread. He also started backtracking the moment Spag flipped town (trying to apologize to me and pretend like he made a mistake). While these could all be seen as scummy actions, I believe that there is not enough there to turn me either way.
Right now, I am going to vote for a no-lynch, as my mind is not made up on who we should lynch. We have about 5.5 hours left in the day, so anything could happen.
##Vote:No-lynch
If anyone has a problem with this, let me know.
On December 24 2012 01:43 cDgCorazon wrote:
I know, it is a terrible option.
In all honesty, I have a lot of suspicion of Omni, but I feel like any more cases against him would just be overkill, but I don't want to bandwagon either.
On December 24 2012 02:49 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 09:29 OmniEulogy wrote:
##Vote: cDgCorazon He slipped up so badly I can't believe it was a mistake. He actually claimed mafia after an already terrible start while being defensive and being overly cautious of most of his posts. I think Theesr's constant back and forth with him made him slip up.
Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 09:29 OmniEulogy wrote:
Either way we as town get an extremely large amount of information if we lynch Corazon at the moment. Unless proven otherwise Corazon's slips have made him 100% scum in my mind.
Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 21:51 OmniEulogy wrote:
#Unvote
##Vote: Spaghetticus
##FoS: cDgCorazon
Congrats Corazon. I still think you are scum but I'm going to hunt your buddies for the rest of the day.
Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 22:41 OmniEulogy wrote:
I was ready to tunnel Corazon until your horrid defense to Aqua's case. 100% believe he is scum. Doesn't mean I'm not going to look for other scum though.
Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 19:48 OmniEulogy wrote:
Alright, so to get more conversation going I'm going to go over pretty much everything I believe we've learned from D1.
Reads
I'll start off with Corazon. After re-reading everything he's said a few times I believe I owe him an apology. As he defended Spag while the vote was on him I'm willing to say I believe he is town. He stuck with his vote on Theesr the entire time. I am willing to overlook every mistake up to this point in his posting and trust that what ever he says from now on is from the mouth of a townie.
TL:DR sorry Cora, I believe you are town along with Mocsta, Aqua, Chrom, and maybe shz/fc
Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 19:48 OmniEulogy wrote:
Again I owe an apology to Corazon as I believe he might be right in thinking Theesr is Scum or possible SK.
Show nested quote +On December 22 2012 22:40 OmniEulogy wrote:
4) Corazon did not get on this wagon at any point - made cases for why we should NOT lynch Spag but instead Threesr. - points to his innocence. quite loudly.
Show nested quote +On December 24 2012 02:11 OmniEulogy wrote:
Cora I really hope you are scum, your posting is still terrible and your misinformation and lack of knowledge for your facts is amazing. First you call shz out on something about you when he wasn't referring to you and nowhere did I say I had a 100% read on spag. The fact he turned town is the only reason you became clear but my god everything you post sounds scummy. Please read posts more carefully. Please.
Which one is it? Am I scum or town?Let us take a look the big things you have done so far: -Made a case to lynch me while I was on the chopping block -Made a case to lynch Spag when he was on the chopping block -Claimed VT -Backtracked about your feelings on me once your suspicions on Spag were proven wrong -Defended yourself from multiple attacks -Tried to pressure Threesr (an easy lynch target) right when people started to jump off of your case -Backtracked your backtrack about your feelings on me Your play has been the most inconsistent by far. You're the only one to have claimed a role, which in all honesty your claim holds no weight because anyone could come out and say they are this role and that role. All the cases you have made are just supporting the original cases on someone. You have come up with no new cases by yourself. You have been bandwagoning and choosing multiple targets and easy lynches when you have been put under pressure. Why would you want to do this? It looks like you are contributing to the town, but it also looks like you are trying to make it so that if you lynch a townie, you won't get completely blamed for it. The only reason you took so much heat for Spag was that Aqua (original case against Spag) defended himself very well and very quickly. Your push for Threesr to defend himself is also a scummy move. With the pressure right off of you, trying to direct the town away from the right lynch and making things chaotic is the perfect town atmosphere for you to slip out of the hot seat, and for scum to thrive. Attacking someone with OMGUS just because they are leaning towards voting you is not a smart thing to do at all. You just seem to be too erratic in your behavior and views to possibly be someone that is town, or that the town wants to keep. ##unvote
##Vote: OmniEulogy
Those three successive posts are really telling. First he gives his suspicions on three different players, and then votes none of them. That is textbook mafia mentality, not caring at all who gets lynched, especially when it is between two town players as Shz/OE were. He then goes on to say he has "a lot of suspicion of" Omni only to not vote him because he "doesn't want to bandwagon". What town player thinks this way? "Oh, I totes think he's scum, but I'm not going to put my vote on him because I don't want to bandwagon." Complete mafia mentality.
And finally, he decides to vote for OE, but only after OE realizes Cora is probably mafia for how he's playing. He attacks OE for his "inconsistent" read and his "OMGUS" of Corazon, when in reality this is the type of OMGUS that is actually alignment indicative. When someone has expressed unwillingness to lynch another player, and then makes it POSITIVELY clear that their motivation for voting that other player is because of that player's newly minted mafia read on them, they are doing so in reactionary fear.
Look at the final 4 OE posts that Cora quoted. What's his read of Cora? Town. town, town, MAFIA. Cora was thinking, "Okay, that's fine, he has a town read on me, good, I'll just call him suspicious and push other people" and then "HE KNOWS! KILL IT WITH FIRE!"
Plus, all of the posts he quoted were focusing on OE's reads on Cora, which shows that Cora was especially concerned with this matter, which is indicative of a mafia player because mafia want to be aware of how townies perceive them. A townie wouldn't give half a shit what their mafia read thinks about them, but Cora does.
But anyway, that's just some of my thoughts that I managed to forget to post before I got NK'd.
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I do feel like my vote for OE was the most awkward one in the whole game. I needed to jump on the wagon without looking like I was scum jumping on the wagon. I didn't have any reason to vote for him, and I was going to probably park my vote somewhere else, but then OE decided to call me out as scum, and I knew that if he flipped town I'd be in trouble. I just decided to call him out on his hypocrisy in saying I'm mafia after switching his views on me several times and say a bunch of bs and hope that you guys would overlooked it.
Thanks to Prom for the write-up, and Yamato's analysis was pretty spot on as well. I just really wish that I wasn't the only mafia trying, in which case it would've been an easy victory.
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EPT
