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shz
Germany2687 Posts
On December 21 2012 07:25 Spaghetticus wrote: Morning guys. Just had a brief read through, looks like I'm screwed -_- How much time left until the lynch? Should I bother defending myself or should I make a final statement? 1,5h and I will be there, so of course you should defend yourself. | ||
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Chromatically
United States1700 Posts
I read through Spag's filter in his town game, and it is very different from his filter in this game. His defense of the player under suspicion could be either a way to get town cred after a green flip or to protect a scumbuddy; either does not look good for him. In addition, the wording of the beginning of his post indicates a scum mindset to me. As town, if you honestly believe someone is being mislynched, you might make a post saying "this is why I have a town read on him". You wouldn't make a blatant defense of that player, and preemptively justify it, all while actually having a scumread on that player. I'm going for Spag over Corazon or FatChunk because I hadn't really considered the bad town angle on them before. Their posting is super fishy, but the chance that they are just bad townies makes it so that Spag is a better lynch today. If neither of them shape up day 2, I'll keep on them. Spag, on the other hand, can't point to a noob explanation because he hasn't been playing like a noob. | ||
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Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On December 19 2012 23:21 cakepie wrote: cDgCorazon: you need to justify your stance on why lurkers should be handled on a "case to case basis" as this is a point of disagreement between you and several other players, myself included. Q1. How much time should someone be allowed in order to "sit back and figure things out?" A day phase is 48 hours long. What do you think is a reasonable expectation in terms of productive contribution from each player within that time frame? Is two to three substantial posts too much to ask? Q2. threesr openly condones lurking, and claims a lurking playstyle (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17239117). He was banned elsewhere, and modkilled in his last game here on TL. How do you propose we approach this situation, from your standpoint of handling on a "case to case basis" ? Where would you draw the line for unacceptable behavior, if his effort does not improve? I do apologize for not answering your questions, which I will do so now in the little time I have before going to work. In terms of figuring things out, I would say between 24-36 hours should be allowed for someone at the beginning of the first day phase. That way, others can put some pressure on and make other arguments, and instead of focusing on the case of one person, they can sit back and see things from a wider perspective to make their reads. However, I do feel that they should come forward with at least their reads on Day 1, even if they do not vote for anyone. Contributing all at once with a great amount of information all at one place is a lot more convenient for all of us than make several reads as the day goes on. We know more information than we did 24 hours ago, and everyone has posted enough to get off the "lurker label", someone making a smart evaluation here would most certainly more than make up for 24 hours of not posting much detail. Unacceptable behavior would be coming to conclusions too fast, as in threesr's case. He likes to lurk, and besides a few posts here and there, and his self-defense from my attacks, he has mostly been in the shadows. He has openly accused multiple people of being scum, which signals something is not right. Why would you pursue multiple cases within a few hours when the focus is on one or two people. To figure that out, we must ask ourselves two questions: What would be a possible Mafia lynching policy? The mafia knows who the other mafia are, so they should be looking to defend fellow mafia that are under attack. On offensive lynching policy, they should all look to communicate with each other to be on the same page voting wise, and as long as a member of the mafia does not get lynched, they are content to see anyone and everyone get lynched, because it would be the town just killing themselves off and playing the game for them. Hypothetically, the mafia could not kill anyone and still win the game if the town manages to argue themselves to death. Of course, this is unlikely. What would be a possible SK lynching policy, assuming that we have an SK? The SK policy is similar to the mafia's lynching policy, except the only one they have to defend is themselves. They are ok with anyone and everyone getting lynched, as long as it is not them. Along with the Mafia, they could hypothetically win without killing anyone, as long as the town lynches each other, and he never get targeted. If you would like more detail, do not be afraid to ask. I will gladly be able to help you after work. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
Spaghetticus (7): Aquanim, OmniEulogy, Mocsta, cakepie, Kickstart, Chromatically, shz cDgCorazon (2): threesr, Sylencia threesr (2): FatChunk, cDgCorazon No-lynch (1): Orangeremi Not voting (1): Spaghetticus Currently, Spaghetticus is set to be lynched! ~1 hour remaining in day 1. Please PM any of your friendly neighborhood hosts if your vote is counted incorrectly. Remember: If you don't vote at all, you will be smitten by divine wrath. Full version: + Show Spoiler + Spaghetticus (7): Aquanim, OmniEulogy, Mocsta, cakepie, Kickstart, Chromatically, shz cDgCorazon (2): threesr (2): FatChunk, No-lynch (1): Orangeremi, FatChunk (0): Orangeremi (0): Mocsta (0): Aquanim (0): shz (0): | ||
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Chromatically
United States1700 Posts
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
im disapointed you raised the issue of sk. the pessimist in me things this is a distraction ploy.. But im optimistic today and instead ask of you... Why you think its relevant to raise this item 1hr before lynch. I assume you will respond in night phase | ||
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cakepie
985 Posts
@Spag give us something to work with. If you have been keeping close track and taking notes, then you should have some reads to share by working off those notes, this should take less time than a defense and should come first (followed by the defense). What you've given earlier on OmniEulogy is not quite up to snuff. It appears a sufficient number of people might just be present if there is a need to swing the vote elsewhere. There is a little time yet, use it well. For my part I need to head out now, and will not be able to follow things very closely until later. Also, after sleeping on it, I have decided that my substantial night post will be made later in N1 than I originally planned -- though I still intend to pop in at that time to catch up. | ||
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Spaghetticus
Australia451 Posts
Reads: Town: - Corazon I have actually given reasons for why I think Corazon is the most town here. People thinking that I wanted to lynch him are mistaken. I started that post thinking that if worst comes to worst I'd lynch him as he wasn't that bad of a choice, but I finished that very same post with the conclusion he was the towniest person here. I'm not sure if the not lynching him was implied, but this was simply a failure to proof read and make my post consistent. When I role town (not a plea), I expect people to follow up all the people who misconstrued this faux pas to their advantage. - Threesr His play is not only entirely noobish, it is conspicuously so. This is not how scum play, there is no caution in this man. A scum would not take up a pro-lurker policy, that shit is crazy. When I'm gone I want these two to be assumed town. Their writing styles are such that if they have somehow juked me, they will slip up, so leave them alone. This is also directed at each other, stop sling mud, it's not helping either of you. Active town: - Cakepie I'm hoping this guy isn't scum because if he is I think town are doomed. Either way, I see very little way to make any accusation stick on him. You need to save cake for later when he has made more room to make slips. I was actually thinking I should make a case on him if he failed to be nightkilled. If I were scum I'd either be shooting Cake to keep myself safe, or making a play to set up a day two mislynch. - Mocsta I wish I had put more effort into keeping an eye on Mocsta. I figured he would not make a good case for day one so I left him be. Some of the things he says are a bot scummy, including the way he went to gobble up town cred at the start, and then backed off when he realised town was self-destructing. At least one person should attempt a case on Mocsta day two IMO, as at the moment he is a midget at limbo on the radar. I had him at 27% scum, but this statistic was from before I mentally flipped Threesr and Corazon as town. - Aquanim I expect Aquanim to come under considerable pressure when I flip town, as he should. I did not have any read on him before, though I am scared of the possibility he is scum and masterstroked me from full health to zero in one hit. - Chromatically Despite my best efforts to take notes and develop a good idea of everyone's post history, I still see Chrom and Aquanim as basically the same person. They were both mentally off limits until day two as their playstyles are aggressive and will lead to slips. Which leaves the lurkers and the scums. Scum - OmniEulogy I want this guy picked apart. He was somewhat background noise for me until he bandwagoned again, but this time on to me. I admit that when I look through his filter, I am somewhat motivated to see the worst, as when I did, everything went from background noise to OMG THIS GUYS IS SCUM. I already posted the beginnings of a case, centered around how he speaks a lot but says very little that isn't obvious or already said. For the record, he is claiming vanilla town like behaviour which is something I never did. Scummy behaviour that is made to look like towny behaviour is more scummy than scummy behaviour that makes no claim to being like town. I never hid the style of my contributions, OmniEulogy is trying hard to sell you turnips as apples. OmniEulogy's the third aggressive player in the game after Aquanim and Chrom, but managed to distinguish himself by only picking safe targets and having very little OC. Lurker/scum There are so many lurkedy perkers that I actually felt somewhat overwhelmed. I want these guys kicked in the arse. Their play is not acceptable, but they've been allowed to do it because of the epic bandwagonning. These people are at best useless town (worse than threesr or Corazon by far, as at least they contributed valuable discussion), and at worst free riding scum. The majority of your efforts should be focused on OmniEulogy and these guys. - Shz Has posted some points I liked, but the substance isn't there, and my liking your point is no standard by which to judge a post by (I liked the majority of mine). He's semi-active, but that needs to be full active. - Kickstart I am puzzled at this guy's inactivity. Apparently in other games he's been the life of the party? Going from mega contributor to nothing is a little too obvious for a scum tell, I expect real life circumstances are getting in the way? Either way, he needs to step up or step out. - Orangeremi Seems to be riding the town's momentum (not a good thing). His suspicion of FC is legitimate, but also an obvious call. Orangeremi you need to start making your own waves. - FatChunk Yet another lurker that has been able to get away with it... He is under a lot of suspicion from the general town, though no threat has actualised to date. I'd say OrangeRemi and FC are my next two biggest worries, as there is very little mitigation for their behaviour. They lurk because they can, which is bad town or moderate scum. - Sylencia Has given an excuse for little input, but is going to have to put in a LOT of effort to distinguish themselves if they want to not be lumped in with FC and ORem. | ||
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Chromatically
United States1700 Posts
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Spaghetticus
Australia451 Posts
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OmniEulogy
Canada6592 Posts
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Orangeremi
United States94 Posts
##Vote: FatChunk | ||
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Spaghetticus
Australia451 Posts
Because all of his play is explainable with a bad townie hypothesis, and quite frankly not as explainable with anything but a terrifyingly bad scum hypothesis. This makes me think he is a victim, much like Kushmaster and WeeTee in game one. The thing that confirms him in a way that nobody else is able to be confirmed, is that his lynch was almost entirely unchallenged. This you will realise when I role vanilla town. From my perspective, the only person who defended him was confirmed town (myself). Once I'm lynched, you'll realise that I am confirmed town so you can assume that no scum defended him whatsoever. I expect there to be 1-2 scum on his bandwagon, not all three. If for some reason two you catch two scum that voted for Corazon at this time, I believe you can safely confirm every other person that voted him as town. I think there was most likely one because more than one was unnecessary (seeming as the bandwagonning was so strong). Your point that the lynch did not end up going off too easy is meaningless. I intervened far above what was expected of me in order to save him. The vote changed because I changed the state of play massively (much to my dismay). For scum, they saw a better pickup and took it. For town, they saw someone that had obviously been participating in a high degree of self monitoring, assumed some sort of lopsided genius/idiot, and went to town on me (haha). I'm gonna feel like a right fool if he does role scum... | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
Spaghetticus (7): Aquanim, OmniEulogy, Mocsta, cakepie, Kickstart, Chromatically, shz cDgCorazon (2): threesr, Sylencia threesr (2): FatChunk, cDgCorazon FatChunk (1): Orangeremi Not voting (1): Spaghetticus Currently, Spaghetticus is set to be lynched! 5 minutes remaining in day 1. Please PM any of your friendly neighborhood hosts if your vote is counted incorrectly. HAIL TO THE KING BABY FLOWER HOST BEST HOST Remember: If you don't vote at all, you will be smitten by divine wrath. Full version: + Show Spoiler + Spaghetticus (7): Aquanim, OmniEulogy, Mocsta, cakepie, Kickstart, Chromatically, shz cDgCorazon (2): threesr (2): FatChunk, No-lynch (0): FatChunk (1): Orangeremi (0): Mocsta (0): Aquanim (0): shz (0): Not voting (1): Spaghetticus | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
Five minutes remain until deadline | ||
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Spaghetticus
Australia451 Posts
You think I don't have a point about you? Safe play? Scummy Making scum reads to appear town? expected of any scum or town (see what happens when I deviate from this norm?). Explaining why you made your decisions? The simplified version, which is exactly what you would do if you were scum. I am a high self monitoring player that does not pretend to be anything different. You are a high self monitoring player that does pretend to be something different (simple). At this moment in time my words are wind, because I am suspected scum. When I flip vanilla my words will find new force, as they are the reasoned words of confirmed town. You are going to have to up your game, seconding every opinion and stating the obvious is not enough. | ||
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FatChunk
Canada93 Posts
Everyone keeps mentioning that spag is appearing useful while not contributing. Spag has argued that he has been lighting fires under lurkers to gain information. Is this not considered scumhunting, whether direct or indirect? He seems to be contributing in ways that are very obviously pro-town. I do not really see conclusive evidence. But who knows, maybe thats what town's supposed to do on day1. Anyway, we would have stood much more benefit and less to lose by lynching theesr - we would have confirmed theesr as town/scum and in turn shed some light on spag's innocence. Now hes gone. I will do my best D2 to be more useful, as it seems nobody values my posts. | ||
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Spaghetticus
Australia451 Posts
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
Night 1 ![[image loading]](http://astrobioloblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/discworld-series.jpg) How earth looks like if you ask Urban. marvellosity spoke to the crowd of young scientists in front of him “as you may know our good friend, and fellow in the fight against the geocentric worldview, Promethelax was killed yesterday on the orders of the evil man known as Dandel of Ion who, despite the scientific evidence to the contrary still says that the earth must be at the centre of the universe for he is a fool! It has come to my attention that Dandel has agents planted in our organization, that is how he found out that Promethelax was one of us. Now, we must come together to find out who among us is not a true believer in science. When we find that man he must pay for his crimes, go now my dears find that false man,” for a long time the hall was silent until cDgCorazon spoke up “okay guys we can do this, good luck!” the others turned on him “no true man of science would wish us good luck before a murder” said they. There was a great argument, many men staked their lives on Corazon being a true anti-Aristotelian while others said that he could not believe in Copernicanism for he talked of the sun rising and setting. Spaghetticus called for the death of cDgCorazon too loudly though and some of the heliocentrists asked themselves if one of them would truly bay for the blood of another man with such vehemence. Chromatically told the others “I don't trust this Spaghetticus, he tries too hard and not hard enough we must kill him just as Cyril killed Hypatia” this led to a great clamour and the various men throughout the room grabbed their sharp instruments and tore the flesh from Spaghetticus, they threw his still quivering bones into the fire and gasped as the flames turned green. “What have you done!” cried marvellosity, “you have killed on of our own. May god forgive us all.” The remaining men decided that they must stay together and pray for the night atoning for their evil deed. Spaghetticus the Renaissance Man was lynched. It is now night one, make sure that all actions are in to Prome and the co-hosts within 24 hours and remember kids: flavour is just flavour there are no clues here. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
It is now nightphase. You may post normally. Send in any actions per PM to all the hosts. Night lasts 24 hours, deadline is the same as for lynches - 00:00 GMT (+00:00). | ||
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