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On December 21 2012 09:02 FatChunk wrote:
Spag's rebuttle to Aqua's argument was in my opinion, satisfactory. Mocsta your post does not provide any evidence in my eyes, it is all speculation. Your first arguments that spag acuses corazon to be scum, then changes to town, is quite possible. People can probably change their minds in this game, thats the idea behind pressuring right? Thus, inconclusive Part 2. Thus part 3 is a little redundant if you dont value part 2. Also, RE: 3-(4) he does not manipulate town for survival, he manipulates town openly and in the right direction by sacrificing his own survival because he risks coming off as too agressive. Also, if he were mafia why would he openly protect his 2 other mafia mates. Anyway your argument does not sway me, neither did Aquas'.
Everyone keeps mentioning that spag is appearing useful while not contributing. Spag has argued that he has been lighting fires under lurkers to gain information. Is this not considered scumhunting, whether direct or indirect? He seems to be contributing in ways that are very obviously pro-town. I do not really see conclusive evidence. But who knows, maybe thats what town's supposed to do on day1. Anyway, we would have stood much more benefit and less to lose by lynching theesr - we would have confirmed theesr as town/scum and in turn shed some light on spag's innocence. Now hes gone.
I will do my best D2 to be more useful, as it seems nobody values my posts.
^ scum right here
Comes in right before the flip and posts a defense of the person he knows to be town. What purpose is served for town by posting this when Spag is already dead? None; it's scum trying to gain town cred.
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GG for me guys. I had a blast, so no hard feelings. I'll be rooting for town from obs, give 'em hell.
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GG Spaghetticus.
I'm gonna grab a bite to eat and then see what else can be learned from this. I don't think we have been entirely wrong guys. Corazon/FC/Sylencia/Kickstart still under heavy suspicion from me. When Sylencia starts to post more we'll hopefully get a better read if town/scum. Kickstart has been lurking and its very difficult to see what he actually thinks of this lynch but a few of his posts have been ok.
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i simply did that because mocsta questioned me earlier. it was just me typing it out coincidentally at this time. by the way it didnt matter when I posted this, votes were decided. I was just trying to explain my view. My god stop reading too much into the smallest things when they don't mean anything.
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I also need to take a closer look at Omni. I glossed over this post earlier because I was pretty sure of Corazon scum, but looking at it from a Corazon town perspective, it looks pretty bad:
On December 20 2012 09:29 OmniEulogy wrote:
Hey guys, I just got home sorry for being so late.
After reading through everything first and foremost
##Vote: cDgCorazon He slipped up so badly I can't believe it was a mistake. He actually claimed mafia after an already terrible start while being defensive and being overly cautious of most of his posts. I think Theesr's constant back and forth with him made him slip up.
He constantly says who benefits from a 1 day Lynch. Town does in this situation even if we lynch him and he turns out town. If this happens I'm almost positive Theesr is scum, he's been trying to spread confusion and is openly claiming he doesn't want to post a lot or explain himself. Extremely scummy behavior. If it wasn't for the fact that Corazon literally said he was mafia and didn't even correct it until somebody else brought it up (meaning in his mind the sentence made sense) then I would be trying to start a hunt on Theesr.
The only thing making me think Theesr is just a bad town is the way he's been aggressively going for Corazon, on D1 I would never expect two mafia players to try and lynch each other they just can't afford to.
I believe at the moment our best bet is to lynch Corazon at the end of D1, see who jumps on the bandwagon and if he flips scum we'll be able to look at who tried to defend him, who eventually gave in, and who was set on lynching him right away. If he flips town and I've made a mistake on my reads than Theesr is most likely scum and used the fact that Corazon was not posting comfortably at the start to secure a town lynch D1.
Either way we as town get an extremely large amount of information if we lynch Corazon at the moment. Unless proven otherwise Corazon's slips have made him 100% scum in my mind.
I'm going to make something to eat and then I'll look over everything again just to make sure I've read everything correctly.
Votes Corazon almost solely on his rather unconvincing "slip", trying to avoid justifying his vote while saying that he is "100% scum". He also lines 'em up with the mislynches by setting up a Threesr lynch for d2.
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@Chrom just because Spagh got his reads wrong and got lynched defending scum doesn't mean the rest of us have been wrong about that situation. It's unfortunate that we got taken off course because Aqua made a good point and Spagh couldn't defend himself properly but how does any of that change the fact that the logic behind Corazon/threesr/FC is still sound.
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On December 21 2012 09:17 FatChunk wrote:
i simply did that because mocsta questioned me earlier. it was just me typing it out coincidentally at this time. by the way it didnt matter when I posted this, votes were decided. I was just trying to explain my view. My god stop reading too much into the smallest things when they don't mean anything.
I didn't see Mocsta's question, but I still find the post weird. You said:
Anyway, we would have stood much more benefit and less to lose by lynching theesr - we would have confirmed theesr as town/scum and in turn shed some light on spag's innocence. Now hes gone.
This is not related to Mocsta's question. The only purpose of this is to distance yourself from the lynch and make yourself look better.
And seriously, there's no need for a townie to be as defensive as you've been. I'm not reading too much into your posts, I'm scumhunting. Hopefully you can do some of that d2.
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On December 21 2012 09:26 OmniEulogy wrote:
@Chrom just because Spagh got his reads wrong and got lynched defending scum doesn't mean the rest of us have been wrong about that situation. It's unfortunate that we got taken off course because Aqua made a good point and Spagh couldn't defend himself properly but how does any of that change the fact that the logic behind Corazon/threesr/FC is still sound.
I'm not saying that the logic is any different, but I am saying that your post looks bad if I remove my confirmation bias specs with regards to Corazon.
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Unfortunately, this flip makes sense, I was suspicious there was no activity when i woke up.
(1)
Fellow townies,
I realise its easy to point the finger at Aquanim or even myself; we both developed cases against Spaghetticus.
If you want to question either of us, I suggest action be taken by middle of Night 1. I believe if this matter is not closed sooner than later, it will cloud our ability to constructively look at the sequence of events that led to Spaghetticus.
(2)
We need to consolidate and stick to a battle plan.
I think part of this is absorbing the Day 1 posts before sling accusations at persons.
We need to start questioning peoples motives critically; and understand the town atmosphere at the time of key events.
(3)
For me..
Key Events are:
(1) Reactions when Chromatically began targetting Corazon
(2) Threesr announcing himself in the thread, in the way he did
(3) Reactions to Threesr being top of the vote count
(4) Interplay with FatChunk
(5) Aquanim/Spaghetticus/Myself
Please feel free to add/remove events as you see fit.. I wrote this from recollection.
(4)
I am going to start examining these events with the following goals
(a) Who is pushing these events to occur
(b) Who is not posting at all
(c) Who is joining the bandwagon,but, not adding original thought
When I have had time to answer these questions, I will post again in the thread.
I hope you all too... take a step back.. and do a similar process.
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Let me just say I never wanted to vote for Corazon, but felt that I had to for my own survival since no one would ever get onto my FC vote. From the very start Ive wanted to lynch FC more than anyone. When I first accused Mocsta of being scum I felt like I had to vote for him just because. But I really wanted to get a case (but I couldnt figure out how to write it properly) and vote him which I did. The reason I mostly got into an argument with Corazon was I had nothing better to do.
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In fact... WTF is this:
[QUOTE]On December 21 2012 00:15 OmniEulogy wrote:
Alright. This will be my first time doing anything with multiple posts in it let alone have it be this big... if I mess up and hide anything in spoilers I apologize in advance lol 
+ Show Spoiler +On December 20 2012 23:20 Spaghetticus wrote:Bugger tomorrow IDGAF Show nested quote +To play devils advocate for Theesr on his stance on lurkers. I could see scum using LAL to their advantage and making us waste most of D1 while they play it safe and then bandwagon a lurker, we lynch said lurker he turns up to be town and if things have really gone poorly we learn nothing and scum comes out ahead of us on D1.
I agree with Kickstart entirely when he says we should push scum reads over policy lynches. Truthfully I'm more worried about anybody who thinks we should lynch lurkers without second thought. While I actually liked the last part and even took a note in the satisfactory column, Omni does little here but say a bunch of safe stuff. He came across as a little bold when he proclaimed his disapproval of thoughtless lynching, but in retrospect this is actually a very safe move.
ty, ofc. I'm going to play safe in my first game as VT in mafia.
...
He just casually claims VT for no reason!? This isn't the action of a townie carefully thinking over his claim, this is something that a scum threw out because he wasn't thinking it over. A townie claiming VT would make it a big deal and let everyone know that he was claiming, but the way Omni does it looks more like a mafia just trying to add legitimacy to his post.
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EBWOP: I meant to say that I really wanted to get a good case on FC.
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Fixed tags:
In fact... WTF is this:
On December 21 2012 00:15 OmniEulogy wrote:Alright. This will be my first time doing anything with multiple posts in it let alone have it be this big... if I mess up and hide anything in spoilers I apologize in advance lol + Show Spoiler +On December 20 2012 23:20 Spaghetticus wrote:Bugger tomorrow IDGAF Show nested quote +To play devils advocate for Theesr on his stance on lurkers. I could see scum using LAL to their advantage and making us waste most of D1 while they play it safe and then bandwagon a lurker, we lynch said lurker he turns up to be town and if things have really gone poorly we learn nothing and scum comes out ahead of us on D1.
I agree with Kickstart entirely when he says we should push scum reads over policy lynches. Truthfully I'm more worried about anybody who thinks we should lynch lurkers without second thought. While I actually liked the last part and even took a note in the satisfactory column, Omni does little here but say a bunch of safe stuff. He came across as a little bold when he proclaimed his disapproval of thoughtless lynching, but in retrospect this is actually a very safe move. ...
He just casually claims VT for no reason!? This isn't the action of a townie carefully thinking over his claim, this is something that a scum threw out because he wasn't thinking it over. A townie claiming VT would make it a big deal and let everyone know that he was claiming, but the way Omni does it looks more like a mafia just trying to add legitimacy to his post.
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why make a big deal over something that is obvious. I've been scum hunting, helping with reads and giving my input on matters. Yes I'm town. No I'm not Blue, Miller, or Mason. the VT claim was veiled so if I did get checked N1 it would come back exactly as I have said. Sorry Chrom I'm not trying to hide what I'm doing.
To put it simply for you. I am VT. I scumhunt. I give my thoughts to the rest of you. If thats all you've got for a case that I claimed VT and then proceeded to play like a townie and continue to contribute to town... you caught me.
Spaghetticus tried his hardest to find something in my filter and couldn't even come back with a FoS and I was voting for him. Don't get distracted on me, it will just waste time. Yes I'm being defensive - this is my defense after all.
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EBWOP: so you don't misunderstand - you caught me playing as my role. just as Spag had done in his attempt.
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Theses are the people that need to post more:
-Kickstart
-Orangeremi
-Sylencia
-threesr (during the second half of d1)
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It's nearly impossible to get a read on you if you're all lurking. One day is excuseable, more than that is not. There were many chances to comment on things during the day that you didn't. I think it's very likely that at least one scum is hardcore lurking and it's working because multiple town are also lurking. Kickstart and Syl have said that they have time problems, I assume that you'll be able to post more going in to d2. Orangeremi I see as particularly suspicious out of this group for being lurky all day for no particular reason.
tl,dr; don't lurk so that we can find the scum.
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On December 21 2012 10:08 Chromatically wrote:
Theses are the people that need to post more:
-Kickstart
-Orangeremi
-Sylencia
-threesr (during the second half of d1)
-
It's nearly impossible to get a read on you if you're all lurking. One day is excuseable, more than that is not. There were many chances to comment on things during the day that you didn't. I think it's very likely that at least one scum is hardcore lurking and it's working because multiple town are also lurking. Kickstart and Syl have said that they have time problems, I assume that you'll be able to post more going in to d2. Orangeremi I see as particularly suspicious out of this group for being lurky all day for no particular reason.
tl,dr; don't lurk so that we can find the scum.
Didnt have much of an opportunity to post on the second half of day 1 because I was sleeping, then I knocked over the christmas tree and had to clean that shit up. Then had to pick up someone from the airport and just got home.
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On December 21 2012 10:04 OmniEulogy wrote:
why make a big deal over something that is obvious. I've been scum hunting, helping with reads and giving my input on matters. Yes I'm town. No I'm not Blue, Miller, or Mason. the VT claim was veiled so if I did get checked N1 it would come back exactly as I have said. Sorry Chrom I'm not trying to hide what I'm doing.
To put it simply for you. I am VT. I scumhunt. I give my thoughts to the rest of you. If thats all you've got for a case that I claimed VT and then proceeded to play like a townie and continue to contribute to town... you caught me.
Spaghetticus tried his hardest to find something in my filter and couldn't even come back with a FoS and I was voting for him. Don't get distracted on me, it will just waste time. Yes I'm being defensive - this is my defense after all.
It's obvious that you're VT? There is no town benefit in you claiming VT on d1. What do you mean by the bolded?
I assure you. I'll have a full case on you tomorrow.
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On December 21 2012 10:09 threesr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 10:08 Chromatically wrote:
Theses are the people that need to post more:
-Kickstart
-Orangeremi
-Sylencia
-threesr (during the second half of d1)
-
It's nearly impossible to get a read on you if you're all lurking. One day is excuseable, more than that is not. There were many chances to comment on things during the day that you didn't. I think it's very likely that at least one scum is hardcore lurking and it's working because multiple town are also lurking. Kickstart and Syl have said that they have time problems, I assume that you'll be able to post more going in to d2. Orangeremi I see as particularly suspicious out of this group for being lurky all day for no particular reason.
tl,dr; don't lurk so that we can find the scum. Didnt have much of an opportunity to post on the second half of day 1 because I was sleeping, then I knocked over the christmas tree and had to clean that shit up. Then had to pick up someone from the airport and just got home.
That's fine, but it's necessary that everyone contributes d2. Have to make sure that you're not going to start lurking as the pressure on you is turned off.
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EPT
