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On December 22 2011 05:36 L wrote:Show nested quote +If I'm wrong or right doesn't however actually matter to the game at hand. If I said "Town always lynches mafia on day 1" I'm obviously lying, but that doesn't make me scum, and L knows this. Now, I happened to be telling the truth this time, as I proved, but really, that's irrelevant. RE: Irrelevance. It isn't irrelevant. Assume day 2 rolls around and you state "town always lynches mafia on day 1" in support of re-lynching after day 1 passed with a no-lynch verdict, when the reality is that town very RARELY lynches mafia on day 1. Does that statement seem just as innocuous now if the context implies that you're serious and have a motive behind the statement? No. This has been pretty much your only argument thusfar against me and it conceeds the point that there was a lie. So what's the motive and context behind this statement? I posted a large piece of analysis and you replied with a dismissive chaff post with a lie inside of it. The motive was to discredit my statement while not opening yourself to critique. The context is a slow thread and a near-bottom page position. If that's the case then Syllogism or Mr. Wiggles would be likely mafia buddies; post burying is a pretty standard way to avoid a piece of analysis which fucks your team without drawing attention to it. The alternative is that you're horrendous at this game and make anti-town posts, but are somehow lucky that this game's prevalence of pew pew pistols makes anti-town play somewhat less terrible on an individual level. (odd, that)
I don't even understand what you're saying. Of course a statement like that is always irrelevant because it doesn't get anyone lynched. I guess if you allow no-lynches you can make the stretch that it's somewhat relevant, but it doesn't matter because I made no suggestion with the post.
The fact you picked up on it as something of value to the game makes you mafia.
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
lol what you are you two even arguing about? How is the percentage of games that scum get lynched day one even relevant? Who cares what the percentages are on MS or how the last 20 games have gone? Even if it was really poor odds, you still try to find scum regardless.
L, your Metric post is nice and all, but who exactly did you catch? It's not a very good trap if you don't mention anyone that has fallen for it.
Foolishness, you seem more than willing to call certain people town, but who is scum? It's a lot easier to defend people, than to attack them.
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overslept o_O
current votecount says this:
On December 17 2011 12:44 ZBot wrote:Day 1 Vote Count
With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.Current votes: LSB (3): wherebugsgo, SamuelLJackson, Jackal58L (2): kitaman27, - kitaman27, wherebugsgo, - wherebugsgo, SamuelLJackson, - SamuelLJackson, Jackal58, - Jackal58, chaoser, PalmarPalmar (2): VisceraEyes, - VisceraEyes, VisceraEyes, Chezinu, - VisceraEyes, LSamuelLJackson (2): GMarshal, Chezinu, VisceraEyes, - VisceraEyes, - Chezinu, LSBBloodyC0bbler (1): Mr. WigglesLiquid`Sheth (1): kitaman27VisceraEyes (1): prplhzFoolishness (0): VisceraEyes, - VisceraEyesGMarshal (0): Palmar, - PalmarVoting ends at December 22 2011 14:00. (That's approximately 8:15:20 from now.)
So clearly a lot of people have not voted yet.
Palmar, what makes you confident L is scum?
Foolishness, if you want to kill L, why is your vote not on him? Or has your opinion changed since I was last here?
Jackal, can you explain what makes you suspicious of LSB?
All the people who haven't voted yet: why are you not contributing to discussion?
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I would still be fine with a LSB lynch who came out of the woodwork to defend himself, threw a weak vote on me, made a few weak statements about other players, then disappeared back into nothing once the pressure had eased up on him again. It looks entirely like lazy scum play, somewhat reading the thread and coming out once their name is called and presenting an alternative and a few other names just in case then going away again.
I disagree entirely with a Palmar lynch. He has not posted anything that I would not expect from him as Townie Palmar and his points have made sense. I understand where his point comes from about day 1 Mafia lynches as there were a series of games back around when I started where Town nailed scum day 1 of almost every single game (Palmar was in all of them as well).
GM's play looks just like Some Mafia Game as scum where he made a terrible case day 1, neglected to respond to any of the criticisms of the case, promised activity constantly but never delivered.
Jackal's posts are giving me the exact same careful scum feeling they did in that infamous annul Jack game. Jackal where are you?
Wiggle's posts are extremely cautious and neutral, something that's notably absent from his town play. Looking at LotR (Town) he has a ton of posts boldly stating his opinions and reasoning. In this game he's constantly bringing stuff up and asking people "what do you think?" Brings up stuff but seems more curious about what other people think of it than what conclusions he draws from it.
L besides Palmar do you have anyone else you suspicions of?
/Curu
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United States22154 Posts
Alright, I've finally had time to read the thread.
Lets crack this bitch right open.
Part 1: The Setup
First of all, regarding the setup. Everyone who is speculating on it, I suggest you go take a gander at Personality Mafia, notice the preponderance of vigilantes over dts. I'm betting this game follows a similar theme in that respect.
I think this talk of triggers is preposterous, responsibility is based on actions not words, so expect things like weak medics or suicidal vigilantes, not "a DT that can only check people who have said potato". So stop worrying about "triggers" and such. This is at its basest still a game of mafia. Behave analytically, dont lie and don't derp, and everything will be ok. Bumatlarge's talk of responsibility points is an insane excuse to obfuscate his posting, and thus rather suspicious in and of itself. This is a closed setup, we know nothing, so stop talking or making assumptions based on the title. For all we know everyone is a VT or a time traveling Nordic Jahrl, don't speculate about the setup, since we are probably never going to have any concrete information regarding the setup. I'll say it again, play this as a normal setup. My major suggestion is to not claim, however under any circumstance. I suspect that there is a mafia role that can shoot based on claims, much like the sniper in Zona's Steamship game.
Don't adjust your behavior to deal with the setup, if the setup is well designed then playing normally will win us the game, and behaving like morons will end in our quick and unsubtle deaths. So, don't worry about it, and don't waste time discussing it.
(part two coming as soon as I'm done writing it)
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United States22154 Posts
On December 22 2011 06:03 SamuelLJackson wrote:
GM's play looks just like Some Mafia Game as scum where he made a terrible case day 1, neglected to respond to any of the criticisms of the case, promised activity constantly but never delivered.
Actually a more fair comparison would be my play in PTP where I simply was overwhelmed with work the first two days. It happens, but as town or scum, I'm generally active, so please, analyze my behavior if you will, but inactivity is always going to be do to matters beyond my control. I sign up to play mafia, not to sit on my ass and lurk, thats no fun for anyone.
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Palmar: L's vote is pretty ridiculous, but it seems strange from mafia point of view as well considering the thread was dead and there was no need to divert attention elsewhere. It seems more like a poorly thought of angry town reaction to your irrelevant quibble with his setup analysis.
GM please no more setup analysis, who would you lynch?
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On December 22 2011 06:11 syllogism wrote:
Palmar: L's vote is pretty ridiculous, but it seems strange from mafia point of view as well considering the thread was dead and there was no need to divert attention elsewhere. It seems more like a poorly thought of angry town reaction to your irrelevant quibble with his setup analysis.
GM please no more setup analysis, who would you lynch?
I'm more interested in who you want to lynch.
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##Vote: Chezinu
Working on finals stuff. Consider it a placeholder if you will.
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On December 22 2011 06:16 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 06:11 syllogism wrote:
Palmar: L's vote is pretty ridiculous, but it seems strange from mafia point of view as well considering the thread was dead and there was no need to divert attention elsewhere. It seems more like a poorly thought of angry town reaction to your irrelevant quibble with his setup analysis.
GM please no more setup analysis, who would you lynch? I'm more interested in who you want to lynch.
I'm still partial to GM if that's all he has got. It seems strange that he decided to spend his time writing more setup analysis when we've 6(?) hours until lynch. Lurking by bc/rol/ggq et al seems more of a null tell based on Ver's post, so I'm now less inclined to lynch someone who is clearly completely away.
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On December 22 2011 06:19 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
##Vote: Chezinu
Working on finals stuff. Consider it a placeholder if you will.
Placeholder like a pro.
I'm watching and absorbing guys, my reads are all messed up at this point and I'm going to have to do a full reread when I have time (probably at lunch) so right now I'm just keeping current.
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On December 22 2011 05:55 wherebugsgo wrote:
Jackal, can you explain what makes you suspicious of LSB?
Simple. His reason for not wanting to lynch somebody is ludicrous. Particularly in this game. The person he chose as a bad lynch target was Foolishness. Simply because he's a vet. I'm pretty sure I saw Annul receive the same defense day 1 in 48. Ya I know I did. I did it. He has also completely ignored my comment and my vote. You know what? I do the same thing when I'm scum and a single person fos's me or votes me. I ignore it. Why draw attention to it if everybody is ignoring it?
I think LSB is scum. He tries to deflect a lynch target with bs reasoning. I think the target he was deflecting from - Foolishness is also scum. Foolishness is not a person that gimps through day one as a townie.
GGQ is another that has 1 real post in the game. He stated in that post that he's ok with a the case on Chezinu and would support his lynch. Except there is no case on Chez. Just some early policy lynch talk but he has no votes. Then GGQ says he would support an LSB lynch but the case is really weak but hey I'll kill him anyways but it's a bad idea.
Palmar and L are either both townies or both scum. I know Palmar loves to have pissing contests with his scum buddies on day 1. I've been the other half of that duo with him before. And their argument is so fucking inane it's well within the realm of possibility they are both scum. I'm undecided on both as yet. But I'll wager whatever the one flips the other will as well.
So ya right now I'd be cool with everybody consolidating their votes on LSB. He should be the first domino to fall for team red.
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On December 22 2011 06:03 SamuelLJackson wrote:
Jackal's posts are giving me the exact same careful scum feeling they did in that infamous annul Jack game. Jackal where are you?
/Curu
I'm here Curu. And no I'm not defending Annul.
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Okay, LSB seems far and away the best candidate at this time. I'm going to go back and filter him and see what I see. I'd like everyone to do something similar to strengthen your read on LSB so we can get some opinions in here about why he should or shouldn't get lynched.
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We need more information up in here. A lot of people haven't voted and the thread is relatively inactive. Most of those who have voted have not provided many reasons for their votes, but not all of them can be scum. So, let's get some information flowing!
On December 21 2011 22:03 Chezinu wrote:
Red colors!
My new eyes seems to see colors very well!
##Vote: Palmar
Chezinu, can you explain this vote?
What about Palmar or his posting do you find scummy?
Clarity would be nice, since we can't read your mind.
On December 21 2011 13:25 bumatlarge wrote:@Palmar: I never claimed blue, I just said I had a triggered ability. It's a semi-claim that I think town needs to be aware is in the game. Show nested quote +On December 21 2011 10:04 Palmar wrote:
Actually, upon re-reading... are you claiming mason with Chez bum? I wouldn't say mason, but I'm a Chez-Whisperer if you will. LSB has been spouting non-sense. I would revoke any vet protection day 1 he might garner just on what I've seen. In a game where we have too many candidates to lynch I would be against lynching a vet, but every player in the roster can play very well. I think we have to judge on present performance to get our best day 1 result. Foolishness is no plum pudding either. L has been mad poignant this game, I want to keep him around as long as possible from what I can tell. Oh shit, there is BC as well, and he's mad poignant too. Chez, I think LSB>Foolishness>Palmar on the Scumdar-dar. What you think?
Bum, I want more.
You say LSB>Foolishness>Palmar on the scumdar-dar (what does the second dar mean lolol)
Okay, so if LSB has been spouting nonsense and he is ahead of Foolishness and Palmar on your list, why are you voting Palmar instead?
What makes Palmar and Foolishness scummy? I agree that Foolishness looks relatively bad from his posting alone. However, from my time with him in PYP:I, I recall that he said he doesn't usually do anything day 1. This was true in XLIV too, where he did very little day 1. I can't see anything that would suggest he is town or scum at this point, and I think we have better targets.
Palmar, on the other hand, has been playing to his normal town self. His vote reason for L is really dumb, as even town players stretch LaL a lot.
@Palmar, remember we stretched LaL in XLVII with respect to youngminii and we were both wrong. This doesn't mean that L using LaL on you is an indication that he is scum. What, beyond the "stretch," as you say, makes L scum?
Finally, L is also likely to be town, IMO. All of the votes on Palmar right now are really dumb, but L at least had been making sense prior to his relatively stupid post on probabilities leading to Palmar being scum.
@L, why are you focusing so much on Palmar? Can you explain what, besides the lynch rates you claim he is lying about, makes Palmar mafia? If no, then why are you still voting him? Why do you not consider other people for lynch today, such as LSB?
@Foolishness, I realize your town meta is "be useless day 1 into rape scumteam day 2" but if we are not afforded the luxury of having you around day 2 I would love to hear your thoughts and opinions on who is scum as soon as you can give them to us. You are a valuable asset to town, and the day 1 lynch is as important as any other. This isn't a town full of new players, so lurking day 1 isn't going to afford you any protection. Can you explain why you are choosing to lurk and post relatively little anyway? What is the disadvantage of you posting a lot?
+ Show Spoiler +I can see one, and that's you being scum and not wanting to post.
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If Bugs continues to make sense he's scum too.
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On December 22 2011 05:53 kitaman27 wrote:
lol what you are you two even arguing about? How is the percentage of games that scum get lynched day one even relevant? Who cares what the percentages are on MS or how the last 20 games have gone? Even if it was really poor odds, you still try to find scum regardless.
L, your Metric post is nice and all, but who exactly did you catch? It's not a very good trap if you don't mention anyone that has fallen for it.
Foolishness, you seem more than willing to call certain people town, but who is scum? It's a lot easier to defend people, than to attack them.
Sorry, got caught up with Palmar. Here's the list:
1. Foolishness -- Actively Hiding, but he's stuck his neck out a few times. Not sure yet.
2. RebirthOfLeGenD -- Quiet
3 .wherebugsgo -- Aggressive and Questioning.
4. kitaman27 -- Aggressive post analysis, but I'm not sure how long you had that liquid sheth picture around. Undecided.
5. syllogism -- Actively Hiding. Leaning towards red.
6. SamuelLJackson (sandroba/curu hybrid) -- I have no idea how to read hydra posts, but he has content posts + early vote. Greenish as far as I can tell.
7. Jackal58 -- Very short posts but lots of questions. Probably trigger hitter.
8. Liquid`Sheth -- BLARING WARNING SIGNS.
9. GMarshal -- Not enough information. Starts off quiet, moves to medium content posts. Early vote. Goes quiet again. Seems like a busy townie.
10. L -- This is me. I am super cool.
11. Mr. Wiggles -- Huge content filled posts. Aggressive voting after building a case. Lots of questions. Probably a trigger hitter.
12. Palmar -- Should be obvious that I am leaning towards mafia on this one.
13. Chezinu -- Proposes a HYPER aggressive roleclaim early, but no one bit. I assume he's town but maybe 20% potential for traitor based on the risk involved.
14. chaoser -- Lots of questions. Large analysis posts. Aggressive early vote on me. Probably another trigger hitter.
15. bumatlarge -- Huge content filled posts designed to spur discussion and an early vote. Very town.
16. BloodyC0bbler -- Not enough posts. I'd really prefer that he posted more and he's one of the reasons I waited.
17. LSB -- Probably the toughest call in the game asides from Palmar. His posts appear large but they're short replies to large quoted text. Additionally, he's been called out before for 'trying really hard to not piss people off' which is a warning light in metric land. He does, however, vote early, but his case isn't very strong. I lean red on him.
18. GGQ -- One substantive post. Same as BC.
19. prplhz -- Short avoidant posts early. RNGs, votes Viscera. Also has a very solid attack post on GMarshal. Aggressiveness indicates town. Post structure indicates busy.
20. VisceraEyes -- Super town.
I wanted to put filter links on the names, but I have no idea how to do that quickly. Also not putting additional information regarding roles other than trigger hitters, because DANG BRO, THATS NOT HELPFUL. Also, everyone that's blue isn't blue because they're legit; its possible mafia has trigger hitters. Anyways, go through the list and see what you think.
Anyways, I'm now at 22 hours left for 4k words in my term essay, so I will be taking off at the speed of light (meowth, that's right). I'll pop in in a few hours to see what's up, but other than that I can't spare much more time today.
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On December 22 2011 06:23 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 05:55 wherebugsgo wrote:
Jackal, can you explain what makes you suspicious of LSB? Simple. His reason for not wanting to lynch somebody is ludicrous. Particularly in this game. The person he chose as a bad lynch target was Foolishness. Simply because he's a vet. I'm pretty sure I saw Annul receive the same defense day 1 in 48. Ya I know I did. I did it. He has also completely ignored my comment and my vote. You know what? I do the same thing when I'm scum and a single person fos's me or votes me. I ignore it. Why draw attention to it if everybody is ignoring it? I think LSB is scum. He tries to deflect a lynch target with bs reasoning. I think the target he was deflecting from - Foolishness is also scum. Foolishness is not a person that gimps through day one as a townie.
yeah, I saw that just now when I went back to read what transpired while I was asleep, and I agree.
Indeed the fact that he doesn't want to lynch a vet in a game full of vets is really incredibly strange. He told me to read the OP but apparently he missed the fact that this was an invitation game? Why would Ver invite people who are not vets? Lol.
What do you think of Foolishness? He appeared keen to defend LSB by saying that his meta fits. Have you played with LSB before, and would you say that this is accurate?
Earlier in the game I asked for explanation of L's, LSB's, and Chezinu's metas. I got none. So far I have that Chezinu makes obscure posts and is hard to understand. Other than that, I know very little about L and LSB. Can you explain what you know about them?
On December 22 2011 06:23 Jackal58 wrote:
GGQ is another that has 1 real post in the game. He stated in that post that he's ok with a the case on Chezinu and would support his lynch. Except there is no case on Chez. Just some early policy lynch talk but he has no votes. Then GGQ says he would support an LSB lynch but the case is really weak but hey I'll kill him anyways but it's a bad idea.
Palmar and L are either both townies or both scum. I know Palmar loves to have pissing contests with his scum buddies on day 1. I've been the other half of that duo with him before. And their argument is so fucking inane it's well within the realm of possibility they are both scum. I'm undecided on both as yet. But I'll wager whatever the one flips the other will as well.
So ya right now I'd be cool with everybody consolidating their votes on LSB. He should be the first domino to fall for team red.
Yes; Chezinu is definitely the easy target for people to want to lynch based on actually not reading anything in the thread, since his playstyle so far has been that of obscurity.
I tend to agree with you as well on Palmar+L, although I think they are far more likely to both be town than both scum.
Wow, this is fucking weird. I agreed with you with almost everything. I think the world is ending.
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On December 21 2011 18:53 Palmar wrote:
Are you around for a bit syllo? I really need someone to talk to.
Yes I do agree that GM would be a pretty good lynch today. I tried to get him to explain why all he had to offer was policy lynches but he hasn't posted since. I don't think we should be lynching prplhz though, he's marginally more useful than most people in this thread.
Did you notice that BloodyC0bbler came into the thread and the one thing he focused on was the RNG idea, something that had been out of the discussion for a long while by then. I still believe it's a good idea if a town would roll with it from the start, but at the point his post is completely irrelevant to the discussion, to the point that this post is basically a huge pile of nothing. We know absolutely nothing about BC from that one post.
In addition I've had a problem with L's posting since the very beginning, I don't know if this was how you posted back when he was playing but in today's environment that's almost enough to just lynch him by default.
And finally, what do you think about WBG's case on LSB? Do you agree with me that it felt a bit forced, especially the part where he basically flat out accused LSB of being a SK?
Did anyone notice that aside from a post about rng, random accusations with no merit and posting random fluff posts talking generalities about things Palmar had provided nothing of any substance in any town way, including this post? Hell up to this post most of them were total spam posts.
Has anyone noticed he made a few more fluff posts then followed it up on a case against GM for wanting to policy lynch a Hydra? Account sharers have proven to ruin games and have an advantage other players don't. Starting a game off before any information is gleaned by saying "lets off the hydras" is not a terrible post. Had he been actively pushing it and bullying people to do so maybe.
He then makes a post to "further incriminate" gm then again attacks me based off my post I made saying that I only covered 3 points. One of those points is "vague" to only players who aren't seriously reading this thread, one point was on talking about something that was so obviously scummy and was something palmar said was pro town (its not) that I had to comment. Even if someone says something ages before you post, if it scummy you comment on it. People do not get a free pass on old comments.
I then told him to stop making vague posts. He was doing so till that point and only started giving somewhat non shite posts after I called him out. So apparently 3 valid points.
Now, I only respond to these posts as he was tossing shit my way for my play. Up until I called him out Palmar was playing like shite. However he is actively playing so I am inclined to let him continue posting to give us a better read on him.
As for the game at hand as it is now. LSB should be hanged. Anyone go filter him. He hasn't really defended himself at all from any heat given, nor has he provided any real analysis on anyone. Near every post of his seems to be quoting people asking questions of clarification on shite rather than contributing in any meaningful manner. Near none of his posts say fuck all about himself and most of them are short as the "long ones" are only long due to quote usage.
So until he comes out with anything substantial to keep him alive im voting him.
##vote lsb
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On December 22 2011 06:19 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
##Vote: Chezinu
Working on finals stuff. Consider it a placeholder if you will.
what the
you scum, bro? you were this inactive in couple's therapy too. Every now and then you'd pop in and say "hey I'll be back later"
...
Anyone else find RoL suspicious, or am I seeing things?
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.hitechcj.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/jpg_law_justice_003.jpg)
