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On January 29 2013 12:01 BinOnFire wrote:
What pressure? IT WAS 1 post.
Actually I think minds aglow helps everybody, not just town. So why wont 'scummy' people contribute mana? Then they can start actually 1 shotting people.
He called him out on something, CW posted something that in my mind wouldn't really satisfy that thing he pointed out, and instantly marv just dropped the whole thing with the "okay, but in case you aren't mafia pro-tip here: bla bla".
That's pressuring someone, then instantly dropping the pressure when it's not really unneeded.
Also, I may be "awfully quick" to attack marv, but you are awfully quick to defend him.
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On January 29 2013 12:04 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 12:01 BinOnFire wrote:
What pressure? IT WAS 1 post.
Actually I think minds aglow helps everybody, not just town. So why wont 'scummy' people contribute mana? Then they can start actually 1 shotting people. He called him out on something, CW posted something that in my mind wouldn't really satisfy that thing he pointed out, and instantly marv just dropped the whole thing with the "okay, but in case you aren't mafia pro-tip here: bla bla".
That's pressuring someone, then instantly dropping the pressure when it's not really unneeded. Also, I may be "awfully quick" to attack marv, but you are awfully quick to defend him.
If you're reading it this way, you're reading it wrong.
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Okay marv, here:
On January 29 2013 12:02 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 12:01 BinOnFire wrote:
What pressure? IT WAS 1 post.
Actually I think minds aglow helps everybody, not just town. So why wont 'scummy' people contribute mana? Then they can start actually 1 shotting people. you'll have to excuse me if i'm talking nonsense right now (magic noob  ), but this post is what resonates with what i've been saying. Clockwork provided a framework for mafia to contribute in a sense they would find townie, and in a way (presumably) that could even be beneficial for mafia. I don't understand the townie motivation behind this
It's common sense. Scum would try to blend in and try not to be suspected.
By "following plans" made by "townies with authority", they get in their good side, and thus blend in.
Many scum would do this, and in fact they did. I remember both Toad and Mattchew giving me mana for the 2 8/8 beasts plan from last game, and only townies opposed the plan.
Why don't you find any town motivation in making people (apparently) not fall for these "tricks"?
What do you think about the rest of CW's play, e.g him apparently trying his hardest to not let anybody scumhunt?
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On January 29 2013 12:04 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 12:04 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:On January 29 2013 12:01 BinOnFire wrote:
What pressure? IT WAS 1 post.
Actually I think minds aglow helps everybody, not just town. So why wont 'scummy' people contribute mana? Then they can start actually 1 shotting people. He called him out on something, CW posted something that in my mind wouldn't really satisfy that thing he pointed out, and instantly marv just dropped the whole thing with the "okay, but in case you aren't mafia pro-tip here: bla bla".
That's pressuring someone, then instantly dropping the pressure when it's not really unneeded. Also, I may be "awfully quick" to attack marv, but you are awfully quick to defend him. If you're reading it this way, you're reading it wrong.
Perhaps, but at the moment he's the try-hardiest of us all. Are you suspicious of ThePoster marv, or just depressed about the level of play he's exhibiting?
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EBWOP:
Also I'd like CW's contradiction explained.
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On January 29 2013 12:04 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 12:04 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:On January 29 2013 12:01 BinOnFire wrote:
What pressure? IT WAS 1 post.
Actually I think minds aglow helps everybody, not just town. So why wont 'scummy' people contribute mana? Then they can start actually 1 shotting people. He called him out on something, CW posted something that in my mind wouldn't really satisfy that thing he pointed out, and instantly marv just dropped the whole thing with the "okay, but in case you aren't mafia pro-tip here: bla bla".
That's pressuring someone, then instantly dropping the pressure when it's not really unneeded. Also, I may be "awfully quick" to attack marv, but you are awfully quick to defend him. If you're reading it this way, you're reading it wrong.
How should I read it?
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On January 29 2013 12:10 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 12:04 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:On January 29 2013 12:04 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:On January 29 2013 12:01 BinOnFire wrote:
What pressure? IT WAS 1 post.
Actually I think minds aglow helps everybody, not just town. So why wont 'scummy' people contribute mana? Then they can start actually 1 shotting people. He called him out on something, CW posted something that in my mind wouldn't really satisfy that thing he pointed out, and instantly marv just dropped the whole thing with the "okay, but in case you aren't mafia pro-tip here: bla bla".
That's pressuring someone, then instantly dropping the pressure when it's not really unneeded. Also, I may be "awfully quick" to attack marv, but you are awfully quick to defend him. If you're reading it this way, you're reading it wrong. How should I read it?
How it's written? I find it suspicious, but if he's a dumb townie, stop the fuck doing that.
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Okay
Anything else to add about CW?
Or anything else in particular marv?
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On January 29 2013 12:07 RockHydra wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 12:04 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:On January 29 2013 12:04 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:On January 29 2013 12:01 BinOnFire wrote:
What pressure? IT WAS 1 post.
Actually I think minds aglow helps everybody, not just town. So why wont 'scummy' people contribute mana? Then they can start actually 1 shotting people. He called him out on something, CW posted something that in my mind wouldn't really satisfy that thing he pointed out, and instantly marv just dropped the whole thing with the "okay, but in case you aren't mafia pro-tip here: bla bla".
That's pressuring someone, then instantly dropping the pressure when it's not really unneeded. Also, I may be "awfully quick" to attack marv, but you are awfully quick to defend him. If you're reading it this way, you're reading it wrong. Perhaps, but at the moment he's the try-hardiest of us all. Are you suspicious of ThePoster marv, or just depressed about the level of play he's exhibiting?
No, he seems to be posting too much to be mafia right now. I mean, he could be trying to take some weird control as mafia, but probably not.
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CH
They/you spent a LOT of time bickering about useless stuff (not just setup, but completely pointless stuff about setup)
Then your ENTIRE page 2 filter is whether minds aglow is good, WHICH IT IS.
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On January 29 2013 12:02 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 12:01 BinOnFire wrote:
What pressure? IT WAS 1 post.
Actually I think minds aglow helps everybody, not just town. So why wont 'scummy' people contribute mana? Then they can start actually 1 shotting people. you'll have to excuse me if i'm talking nonsense right now (magic noob ), but this post is what resonates with what i've been saying. Clockwork provided a framework for mafia to contribute in a sense they would find townie, and in a way (presumably) that could even be beneficial for mafia. I don't understand the townie motivation behind this of course it helps mafia, but hand size is one of the most powerful resources in magic. By forcing two players to contribute their mana if we hit townies the mafia benefits slightly better, but town gains 35 cards to their 10 (assuming 5 each) with 5 players developing their boards to mafia's two. If we hit one or both mafia the benefit to town is even greater, but even with the worst case scenario town comes out way ahead.
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On January 29 2013 11:48 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Okay, you never mentioned this part of your plan before.
It could make sense, but you are not confirmed town so making other townies discard so many cards, and giving you so many monsters is not that good of a plan until you are very likely town, or at least we can control your monsters somehow.
For that, I think we should wait until D2 or a little bit later for this plan of yours.
Isn't that what we said from the start? D2 is better from our point of view? On the other hand, that's an entire turn delay. May not be worth it for other players: the faster we can get the cards, the faster the basic land search happens, which is the real jumpstart for most people.
Also >20 cards, and having to discard so many of them may not benefit town as a whole, while having 3/4 cards has less risk, and does benefit town (or it appears so)
Oh, I agree. We can only reason from our own deck's point of view. Other people might get completely screwed by having to discard over 10 cards and it might be a bad idea in general. But we get lots of zombies, which benefits town.
Show nested quote +So, in short, forcing "scummy players" to use their mana is great (and forcing all other players to do so is great as well), if we can find those scummy players in enough time and they cooperate. Yes this is a huge part of the plan, so better let's get to it shouldn't we? If they don't cooperate, then we don't get additional cards. Big woopity woop. At worst another townie who could have withheld his mana until the end could use his mana for the additional cards, and that scum will be held under scrutiny
Rhetorical questions...
It is beyond obvious why scum would cooperate with the plan. If they think it helps them to look townie (and that town credit is more useful than whatever they would otherwise cast). We know that. You know that. Marv knows that. This whole discussion is stupid.
Also this seems rather contradictory with your previous "Scum would obviously follow you" comment: Show nested quote +In fact, scum have a far higher interest in doing as you say, as their lacking board development can be made up with the mafia creature. And if it allows them to funnel town into policy attacks on scummys/lurkers, I'd imagine scum would follow you without much resistance. So what do you think is more likely? Scum following me or not following me? Make up your mind and explain your contradiction
Two players with different opinions and ideas sharing one account. WHAT IS THIS MADNESS?
Also I'd gladly kill marv/S&B considering their "lurky not into the game that much" behaviour right now.
I think this should be considered until they start giving more of a damn.
/G
Finally, we agree on something.
Also, in your other post you said I was opposed to scumhunting. I suggest you actually LOOK at my filter. I have not posted my conclusions, but that is not the same as not scumhunting. Additionally, I think people's opinion about magic-related stuff gives perfectly good clues to their alignment. Discussing PLAYS is not the same as pointless setup speculation. Plays can be pro-town or anti-town. And reasons for being for or against something can also be pro- or anti-town. It is good information and I am using it to form opinions... aka scumhunting.
/Acro
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All plays that involve people drawing cards are good for EVERYBODY.
CH, explain how scum would not want to contribute mana regardless?
Also, if you say only the scummy players contribute mana, you are giving scum a free out to 'prove' that they are town
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lol, I thought you were the same guy posting from the beginning 
What was that about consolidating your opinions as hydra? >_> (lol)
I disagree about the plays to be honest, because I don't think there is anything alignment-indicative about discussing plays, other than maybe instantly figuring out a game-breaking play or something.
It's the same as discussing mason plans, or stuff like that in those big themed games. It is "setup speculation", end of point.
Also most likely scum will discuss pro-town plans because the risk of "outing" themselves with the anti-town plans may not be worth it (every time I am scum I discuss in favor of "pro-town plans" for instance).
Leaving that aside, what do you think of marv's recent play, him calling you out, arguing with me, etc?
/G
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As an aside, I've yet to hear from zebezt so hopefully he handle's things while I'm asleep.
I want to play my creatures. They're 0/X for 0-mana (x2). Comments or concerns will be addressed when I wake up and/or when my hydra-head sees them.
As stated, I'd like to spend 1 mana on casting spells and 1 mana on Minds Aglow.
On January 29 2013 11:40 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:Show nested quote +I would like to play as many cards as I can so that I can have as empty a hand as possible, assuming Mind's Aglow gets played. I can play 4 cards, and I mulled down to 6. I'll need to spend 1 mana to do so, so I'll have room for 5 and I can contribute 1 mana to the draw. Do you agree with my plan? If so, then we have to wait for you to use your mana, and preferably casting those creatures. Also, if the plan is to get people 2/4 cards, then it won't matter if you play "as many cards", because if you play too many cards, and we draw a lot of cards for you to get 7, then lots of players will have to discard cards /G
I'm trying to explain what I want to do and why I want to do it. If you don't want my reasons for my actions, I'll just play whatever the hell I want, but I was under the impression we were trying to make "plans", so I detailed what actions I could, and more importantly, wanted to take. I'm not trying to force players into discarding for no reason.
With respect to your plan, I'm assuming it was the "scummy players pay for the draw". I have a very hard time believing the thread will come to a consensus on which scummers will be forced to pay. I believe it's a pro-town card, and I want to draw more cards. I would like to contribute if I can.
~Hopeless
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On January 29 2013 12:15 BinOnFire wrote:
CH
They/you spent a LOT of time bickering about useless stuff (not just setup, but completely pointless stuff about setup)
Then your ENTIRE page 2 filter is whether minds aglow is good, WHICH IT IS.
Hrmmm.. you on the other hand have asked our opinion on whether you should cast it. So you are now blaiming US for your discussion of magic stuff.
And yes, we are childishly excited about the prospect of dropping billions of zombies on the field in turn 1.
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On January 29 2013 12:27 Oatsmaster wrote:
All plays that involve people drawing cards are good for EVERYBODY.
CH, explain how scum would not want to contribute mana regardless?
Also, if you say only the scummy players contribute mana, you are giving scum a free out to 'prove' that they are town
Please let Gonzaw do the talking again, you clearly have misunderstood everything.
1. Balance of power. Currently there are 7 townies and 2 scum (assuming standard balance for a 9player game). That means if townies and scum draw cards, town draws 3.5 times the amount of cards.
Furthermore, at the moment, scum has an 8/8 creature and town has jack shit. Jumpstarting 7 town decks is worth FAR more than jumpstarting 2 scum decks (assuming scum don't have "instantly kill everybody" decks). In fact, one of the reasons for running the deck we are running is because it comes online quickly and can start doing stuff. Sure, this is good for scum, but it is absolutely necessary for town, who has a ticking time bomb under their seat.
2. I don't even know what you're trying to say in the second part. I am not giving scum a way of proving their towniness. Nowhere in ANY of my posts have I even implied that that is the case (and I don't think dandel has either).
/Acro
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Did you not say that only scummy players contribute mana towards Minds Aglow?
Then you said that it gives them a chance to look 'townie'
Also, yes town can actually have some teeth, but this is also good for scum in the sense that a Vig is good for scum. More often than not, Vig's shoot town. Same with lynches.
I would think that scum would want to get enough 'power' to 1 shot people as fast as possible to reduce the number of townies, thats why the card is also good for them
/Oats
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On January 29 2013 12:31 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:lol, I thought you were the same guy posting from the beginning What was that about consolidating your opinions as hydra? >_> (lol) I disagree about the plays to be honest, because I don't think there is anything alignment-indicative about discussing plays, other than maybe instantly figuring out a game-breaking play or something. It's the same as discussing mason plans, or stuff like that in those big themed games. It is "setup speculation", end of point. Also most likely scum will discuss pro-town plans because the risk of "outing" themselves with the anti-town plans may not be worth it (every time I am scum I discuss in favor of "pro-town plans" for instance). Leaving that aside, what do you think of marv's recent play, him calling you out, arguing with me, etc? /G
We try. Sometimes it doesn't work. It's why we sign our posts...
Anyway, no worries now, Dandel went to bed.
Well, as long as things are going okay for scum, they can just blend in, be pro-townie and have their unstoppable creature kill off town. However, being pro-townie too much and too long has disadvantages. Just as in a regular game you cannot just bus all your scumbuddies and expect to win (well, not most games), you cannot allow townies to create giant armies or get nigh infinite mana to cast giant fireballs of doom.
I for one, think I gleaned some useful information from the discussion.
Finally, Marv's standpoint seems strange. He attacks Dandel for stating the obvious. If you want strange ways of entering the thread, that was it. The ensuing discussion was just pointless bickering. Not much there, until he decides to repeat that what he saw was scummy.
@Marv: why was Dandel stating the obvious scummy?
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@Rock Hydra: Yes, discussing what you want to do is fine. I just said it'd be better of you don't do it until later. At least 24 hours into D1.
I'd still like some "normal" scumhunting to be honest. I don't think we'll go very far without it (again, reminiscence of previous game).
Rock/Hope, anything caught your scummy eye yet?
About the "plan", we could at least get the opinion of everybody on whether they'd spend mana on it.
If some players have nothing to do and volunteer to spend mana, then let them, even if they are not "scummy" players.
If not, then at the very least we could talk about it.
A "instantly figure scummy people, instantly force them to spend mana" approach won't work, so we need to work with any approximation to it.
I think 20 cards per player is risky. It basically assumes CW+Bin are both town, and Bin will find his Voyager card and use it (if he's scum, even if he gets the card he can lie and not use it), and CW will summon all his skeletons and trash scum with it. There's also no way to backtrack if we ever find any of them being scum
At least with the 8/8 beast plan some people had Aether Spellbombs as a safety measure, here there is none basically, thus it's very risky.
By what is going on, it is somewhat likely both Bin and CW are town, although I don't want to risk that assumption yet either.
Waiting to use Mind Glow until D2 is fine. Scum can't kill anybody until D3 anyways (if it works the same as the previous game), and nobody until D4 if someone gives HP to someone with a green heal deck.
Again, better spend your time figuring out who's scum. If not you are going to waste your 20 skeletons on killing townies most likely.
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EPT
