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On October 31 2010 04:46 StarcraftMan wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2010 04:39 lastmotion wrote:
Zerg hatchery = 300 mineral + drone lost (50) mineral + lost mining time from that one drone until a new drone comes out to replace it. So it's extremely close to 400 minerals
You realize the SC2 hatchery to CC model is similar to BW? In BW, a Zerg player has to have more hatcheries than a Terran player for both sides to stay even. If Terran has to match the number of Zerg hatcheries at the same time with the number of CCs in SC2 to stay even, then SC2 is broken. ROFL.
I've never said T has to match Z in the number of hatcheries. In your last quote, you tried to make hatchery sound much cheaper and I just pointed out that it's actually quite similar to CC in price.
You can't compare BW's Hatchery -> CC to SC2's because SC2 has the larva inject mechanic which kills the incentive to build more hatchery for more production.
That being said, Zerg SHOULD have more & faster production because they produce fragile units and need more of smaller units to engage, but this is not even the case because of REACTOR. Terran, a race where it builds powerful cost efficient units in smaller numbers actually becomes a race that produces powerful cost efficient units in large numbers like Z because of reactors.
And I love how you capitalize "rofl" whenever someone makes a point that doesn't agree to your views. It shows how narrow-minded you are, and will not take other peoples' views into consideration
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great, 15 page thread over mistranslation. I love boxer, why did I doubt him
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That being said, Zerg SHOULD have more & faster production because they produce fragile units and need more of smaller units to engage, but this is not even the case because of REACTOR. Terran, a race where it builds powerful cost efficient units in smaller numbers actually becomes a race that produces powerful cost efficient units in large numbers like Z because of reactors.
Too bad banelings eat those powerfull cost efficient units  Yeah yeah, tanks vs banelings. But tank marine is so fragile. Make 1 mistake and it's GG.
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On October 31 2010 04:54 BurningSera wrote:OP misleading vesion: Show nested quote +Q: Recently people have said TvZ is hard.
A: I'm probably the one who has said it most! We've got to wait for the next patch, but for now we just try our best. I had this momentary thought in my head, that if I was eliminated I would switch races. Actually I want to go random. In internal battles, for a time, I was random.
the Original version: Show nested quote +Q：最近人族在TvZ上都说难打。
A：我估计是说的最多的（笑）。必须要等到下次补丁更新，现在我只能想办法克服。这次我有个念头一闪而过，就是如果这次被淘汰的话是不是要换个种族。其实我最希望用的是随机。在内测时我有一段时间时用随机的。 what Pro-gamer BoxeR actually meant: (i use the translation from OP as much as i can, since the creditential of this news is still belonged to him) Show nested quote +Q: Terran is having a hard time in TvZ (recently).
A: lol I'm probably the one who has said it the most! (BoxeR actually laughed) I am just gonna try my best until (they give some fix in) the future patch/es. I did have a momentary thought in my head, if i get eliminated (this time), i might consider to switch race. I am actually prefer 'Random' the most. I was playing Random some time during the alpha (i believe him meant 'internal testing' aka alpha, not beta, unless the original source used internal testing = beta).
I honestly don't see the difference between the two translations. (I am the OP, btw.) I was translating fast, but I think 95% of the meaning is there. If I double the word-count, as you did, I could capture the last 5%, but I didn't think at the time that it would blow-up into a 15-page thread. Such is the peril of the sc2 forums. It's as if people didn't even read what I wrote at the top of the OP.
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On October 31 2010 05:13 Endorsed wrote:Show nested quote +That being said, Zerg SHOULD have more & faster production because they produce fragile units and need more of smaller units to engage, but this is not even the case because of REACTOR. Terran, a race where it builds powerful cost efficient units in smaller numbers actually becomes a race that produces powerful cost efficient units in large numbers like Z because of reactors. Too bad banelings eat those powerfull cost efficient units Yeah yeah, tanks vs banelings. But tank marine is so fragile. Make 1 mistake and it's GG.
This goes the other way around...
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On October 31 2010 05:17 YMCApylons wrote:
I honestly don't see the difference between the two translations. (I am the OP, btw.) I was translating fast, but I think 95% of the meaning is there. If I double the word-count, as you did, I could capture the last 5%, but I didn't think at the time that it would blow-up into a 15-page thread. Such is the peril of the sc2 forums. It's as if people didn't even read what I wrote at the top of the OP.
in all honesty, your translation maybe still capture 95% of the original sourse(i honestly doubt that the korean to chinese capture 100% what boxer said but thats another story, i just figure that the korean to chinese translator must be quite careful when choosing his words tho), but i believe my version gave a slightly better impression of what BoxeR said. and we all love BoxeR, dont we all?
and i did some fix of my post^^ sorry for some of my words to you. chill, bro. we love starcraft and thats why we are here in TL. you distribution is very much appreciated. some long translation you did there, good job. 
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On October 31 2010 04:54 BurningSera wrote:blizzard keep saying that zerg can come back instantly with 200/200 which is why we have shitty cost inefficient units. however, anyone who play in the real game will know how hard to play TvZ. terran 2 bases can still easily beat 4/5 bases zerg, and you know how well a terran can turtle. terran units are OVER cost efficient. anyone who doesnt think MM+medivac need a fix is just fcking lying to himself. and after i said my last sentence, i am well awared of that i kinda 'insulted' my beloved BoxeR, i fcking went to read the original source. and guess what people??? FFS, OP did some misleading translational and you people fight for it 14pages??? do you honestly believe that BoxeR is a QQ-er?? so, for TL's sake, here you goes: (in my experience, people, whenever you read translation from one language translate to another, you need to beware that there might be some translation mistake.so no offense to OP really.) OP misleading vesion: Show nested quote +Q: Recently people have said TvZ is hard.
A: I'm probably the one who has said it most! We've got to wait for the next patch, but for now we just try our best. I had this momentary thought in my head, that if I was eliminated I would switch races. Actually I want to go random. In internal battles, for a time, I was random.
the Original version: Show nested quote +Q：最近人族在TvZ上都说难打。
A：我估计是说的最多的（笑）。必须要等到下次补丁更新，现在我只能想办法克服。这次我有个念头一闪而过，就是如果这次被淘汰的话是不是要换个种族。其实我最希望用的是随机。在内测时我有一段时间时用随机的。 now anyone who can read chinese will realise that....OP innocently made some slightly off-translation...or? what Pro-gamer BoxeR actually meant: (i use the translation from OP as much as i can, since the creditential of this news is still belonged to him) Show nested quote +Q: Terran is having a hard time in TvZ recently.
A: lol I'm probably the one who has said it the most! (BoxeR actually laughed) I am just gonna try my best until (they give some fix in) the future patch/es. I did have a momentary thought in my head, if i get eliminated (this time), i might consider to switch race. I am actually prefer 'Random' the most. I was playing Random some time during the alpha (i believe him meant 'internal testing' aka alpha, not beta, unless the original source used internal testing = beta). People, BoxeR talked like a pro. ^^ I urge that anyone who can read chinese have a go of the original source.
Dear Mod:
please beware of this kind of unnecessary confusion thread in future.(i know nothing you can really do but maybe some mods who know chinese can give an extra hand to keep an eye on threads like this).
The OP is mostly right with his translation, except "In internal battles" should be "during beta test"
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On October 31 2010 05:27 MonkeyKungFu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2010 05:13 Endorsed wrote:That being said, Zerg SHOULD have more & faster production because they produce fragile units and need more of smaller units to engage, but this is not even the case because of REACTOR. Terran, a race where it builds powerful cost efficient units in smaller numbers actually becomes a race that produces powerful cost efficient units in large numbers like Z because of reactors. Too bad banelings eat those powerfull cost efficient units Yeah yeah, tanks vs banelings. But tank marine is so fragile. Make 1 mistake and it's GG. This goes the other way around...
Yeah true, wich I find kinda silly. But banelings vs marines is definitely harder for the marine user.
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On October 31 2010 05:37 mmdmmd wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2010 04:54 BurningSera wrote:blizzard keep saying that zerg can come back instantly with 200/200 which is why we have shitty cost inefficient units. however, anyone who play in the real game will know how hard to play TvZ. terran 2 bases can still easily beat 4/5 bases zerg, and you know how well a terran can turtle. terran units are OVER cost efficient. anyone who doesnt think MM+medivac need a fix is just fcking lying to himself. and after i said my last sentence, i am well awared of that i kinda 'insulted' my beloved BoxeR, i fcking went to read the original source. and guess what people??? FFS, OP did some misleading translational and you people fight for it 14pages??? do you honestly believe that BoxeR is a QQ-er?? so, for TL's sake, here you goes: (in my experience, people, whenever you read translation from one language translate to another, you need to beware that there might be some translation mistake.so no offense to OP really.) OP misleading vesion: Q: Recently people have said TvZ is hard.
A: I'm probably the one who has said it most! We've got to wait for the next patch, but for now we just try our best. I had this momentary thought in my head, that if I was eliminated I would switch races. Actually I want to go random. In internal battles, for a time, I was random.
the Original version: Q：最近人族在TvZ上都说难打。
A：我估计是说的最多的（笑）。必须要等到下次补丁更新，现在我只能想办法克服。这次我有个念头一闪而过，就是如果这次被淘汰的话是不是要换个种族。其实我最希望用的是随机。在内测时我有一段时间时用随机的。 now anyone who can read chinese will realise that....OP innocently made some slightly off-translation...or? what Pro-gamer BoxeR actually meant: (i use the translation from OP as much as i can, since the creditential of this news is still belonged to him) Q: Terran is having a hard time in TvZ recently.
A: lol I'm probably the one who has said it the most! (BoxeR actually laughed) I am just gonna try my best until (they give some fix in) the future patch/es. I did have a momentary thought in my head, if i get eliminated (this time), i might consider to switch race. I am actually prefer 'Random' the most. I was playing Random some time during the alpha (i believe him meant 'internal testing' aka alpha, not beta, unless the original source used internal testing = beta). People, BoxeR talked like a pro. ^^ I urge that anyone who can read chinese have a go of the original source.
Dear Mod:
please beware of this kind of unnecessary confusion thread in future.(i know nothing you can really do but maybe some mods who know chinese can give an extra hand to keep an eye on threads like this). The OP is mostly right with his translation, except "In internal battles" should be "during beta test"
FYI, Boxer has also publicly stated he is not happy with the recent nerfs to Terran in another interview:
Boxer said:
"I am slightly displeased with the multiple Terran nerfs (including recent ones). Blizzard has tendency to balance for team games and number of players (of each race). Also Zerg has won recently so I don't understand why Zerg is receiving a buff."
source: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=159592
So it is not out of character for Boxer to say there are balance issues with Terran.
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T late game is very weak and always has been. The early game harass was masking the fact that T has a very poor mid-late -> late game.
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On October 31 2010 04:39 lastmotion wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2010 04:11 StarcraftMan wrote:On October 31 2010 00:30 raf3776 wrote:
Like nada said you need to be equal bases against zerg to have a chance, which makes sense. two terran bases= to 4 zerg bases doesn't sound like it would make the most sense. ROFL. Zerg hatcheries are cheaper than CCs. Blizzard intended Zerg players to have a lead in macro to stay competitive with the other races. There is something broken with SC2 if Terran has to match Zerg bases all the time to stay competitive - SC2 is the same as BW. Zerg hatchery = 300 mineral + drone lost (50) mineral + lost mining time from that one drone until a new drone comes out to replace it. So it's extremely close to 400 minerals I really lost all respect for Boxer at this point. We know that T is actually OP instead of UP because the last 2 patches wasn't that impacting. Yes even the supply before rax nerf actually just makes T play a more macro-orientated opening and he will be ahead. The roach range increase affected ZvP a lot more than ZvT, and Roaches are still crushed by tanks/banshees/marauders. The other nerf was the tank nerf but then again, it still kills lings in the same number of hits as before and after patch. The only REAL nerf was the reaper delay. Well that's okay because Terran still has a million other openings to choose from mid-game. Basically, the last two patches didn't do much. Now, we know Boxer is a paid progamer and he plays T. He is in a position where his fans will dislike him if he abandons the T race. Thats why he can't really switch races. (Notice how he said random instead of Z or P?) Therefore, the best thing for his CAREER is to complain and whine until Terran can get buffed. I don't blame him for choosing his career over the balance of the game. But still, that's somewhat selfish in my eyes. This is coming from a man who "did" so much for the e-sports community. One sign of BW dying and he quickly jumps ship. Boxer, you've died in my heart a long time ago =/
Your ignorance and condescending manner are so aggravating to me. I genuinely feel anger after reading your post, because there is so much wrong with you as a person.
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On October 31 2010 05:52 apmspam wrote:
yea, terran has been nerfed into nothing, the seige tank is cost-ineffective. I agree with boxer, but ive already switched to zerg myself, following the likes the TLO, kawaiirice
And this is what I was talking about.....
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well okay, but so far he keeps winning with his terran
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On October 31 2010 06:03 Friend23 wrote:
well okay, but so far he keeps winning with his terran
Well if all you fight are intentionally low seeded mirror matches it's not hard for boxer to win.
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On October 31 2010 05:56 HalfAmazing wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2010 04:39 lastmotion wrote:On October 31 2010 04:11 StarcraftMan wrote:On October 31 2010 00:30 raf3776 wrote:
Like nada said you need to be equal bases against zerg to have a chance, which makes sense. two terran bases= to 4 zerg bases doesn't sound like it would make the most sense. ROFL. Zerg hatcheries are cheaper than CCs. Blizzard intended Zerg players to have a lead in macro to stay competitive with the other races. There is something broken with SC2 if Terran has to match Zerg bases all the time to stay competitive - SC2 is the same as BW. Zerg hatchery = 300 mineral + drone lost (50) mineral + lost mining time from that one drone until a new drone comes out to replace it. So it's extremely close to 400 minerals I really lost all respect for Boxer at this point. We know that T is actually OP instead of UP because the last 2 patches wasn't that impacting. Yes even the supply before rax nerf actually just makes T play a more macro-orientated opening and he will be ahead. The roach range increase affected ZvP a lot more than ZvT, and Roaches are still crushed by tanks/banshees/marauders. The other nerf was the tank nerf but then again, it still kills lings in the same number of hits as before and after patch. The only REAL nerf was the reaper delay. Well that's okay because Terran still has a million other openings to choose from mid-game. Basically, the last two patches didn't do much. Now, we know Boxer is a paid progamer and he plays T. He is in a position where his fans will dislike him if he abandons the T race. Thats why he can't really switch races. (Notice how he said random instead of Z or P?) Therefore, the best thing for his CAREER is to complain and whine until Terran can get buffed. I don't blame him for choosing his career over the balance of the game. But still, that's somewhat selfish in my eyes. This is coming from a man who "did" so much for the e-sports community. One sign of BW dying and he quickly jumps ship. Boxer, you've died in my heart a long time ago =/ Your ignorance and condescending manner are so aggravating to me. I genuinely feel anger after reading your post, because there is so much wrong with you as a person.
Awesome, you attack my character than my content. If my post has things you disagree with, feel free to point them out rather than using ad hominem attacks. So people who do not agree with your views are "wrong as a person?" I feel like its incredibly ironic for you to say something like that, because of how much assumption + anger you display in your post. In my eyes, the person that has so much wrong is you
EDIT: I just dug up some of your posts and you're clearly delusional because you assumed T was underpowered and Z was the "strongest race" LOL. That explains why Z dominated the tournaments right? (except GSL because Fruitdealer showed us Skill can overcome balance sometimes)
On August 07 2010 00:13 HalfAmazing wrote:
Not only is the matchup not imbalanced, once zerg reaches mass ultra stage, terran is forced to turtle. Idra's just throwing sand in your eyes, blinding you to the reality of zerg actually STILL being overpowered. The only thing that's changed is that zerg no longer has the midgame advantage with roaches. What do you see in reps where t beats z? Succesful one or two base timing push after zerg powered too hard, or turtling terran having waves and waves of zerg goo thrown at him unsuccesfully.
Don't be fooled by his idiotic "I'm a zerg superstar motherfucker, and I win in spite of terran being broken." Plenty of other zergs like dimaga and sen don't struggle at all vs. terran. Idra's schtick is just pathetic.
This post where you derail a world-class foreign player just shows how hateful and biased you are. How were you not banned from a post like this? wow
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On October 31 2010 05:43 Endorsed wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2010 05:27 MonkeyKungFu wrote:On October 31 2010 05:13 Endorsed wrote:That being said, Zerg SHOULD have more & faster production because they produce fragile units and need more of smaller units to engage, but this is not even the case because of REACTOR. Terran, a race where it builds powerful cost efficient units in smaller numbers actually becomes a race that produces powerful cost efficient units in large numbers like Z because of reactors. Too bad banelings eat those powerfull cost efficient units Yeah yeah, tanks vs banelings. But tank marine is so fragile. Make 1 mistake and it's GG. This goes the other way around... Yeah true, wich I find kinda silly. But banelings vs marines is definitely harder for the marine user.
Add in the ever present tanks (and baneling death on a missclick) mutas and thors (muta death on a missclick) and it becomes fragile for both sides.
Roach play is much more steady and less prone to a missclick but then marauders come out and you need the mutas and ... see where I 'm going with this ? :p
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On October 31 2010 05:49 oxxo wrote:
T late game is very weak and always has been. The early game harass was masking the fact that T has a very poor mid-late -> late game.
Then they need to tweak the late game Terran (but for god's sake don't buff the thor). The fact is the changes to the early game were still necessary.
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BoxeR maybe not completely happy with the patch, but he DOESNT QQ.
terran QQ-er stop using BoxeR as their legit 'tank' to backup their QQ lol
(mystery of the day: the age group of TL-er is indeed lower than before sc2 released?)
On October 31 2010 05:37 mmdmmd wrote:
The OP is mostly right with his translation, except "In internal battles" should be "during beta test"
you know it might also be a) internal testing = alpha, b) open/public testing =beta.
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On October 31 2010 06:14 Sixes wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2010 05:43 Endorsed wrote:On October 31 2010 05:27 MonkeyKungFu wrote:On October 31 2010 05:13 Endorsed wrote:That being said, Zerg SHOULD have more & faster production because they produce fragile units and need more of smaller units to engage, but this is not even the case because of REACTOR. Terran, a race where it builds powerful cost efficient units in smaller numbers actually becomes a race that produces powerful cost efficient units in large numbers like Z because of reactors. Too bad banelings eat those powerfull cost efficient units Yeah yeah, tanks vs banelings. But tank marine is so fragile. Make 1 mistake and it's GG. This goes the other way around... Yeah true, wich I find kinda silly. But banelings vs marines is definitely harder for the marine user. Add in the ever present tanks (and baneling death on a missclick) mutas and thors (muta death on a missclick) and it becomes fragile for both sides. Roach play is much more steady and less prone to a missclick but then marauders come out and you need the mutas and ... see where I 'm going with this ? :p
Tanks attack very slowly and are cost ineffective.
Tanks hurt your own troops for 50% damage.
Banelings killed still explode at a 2.20 area for full damage, which is fun cause the marine gets auto gibbed and marauders all lose nearly half their health for every one baneling closeby that you kill with tanks, though you usually just end up getting overrun by a huge margin by muta/ling anyway.
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EPT
