|
I don't see why boxer should be ashamed of his balance comments. Remember the fruitdealer QQ post, his (and idra's) constant threat to switch to terran, their constant QQing....now compare the difference of "class", it's far from the non stop QQ we had to endure for 2 months and that pollued every threads. (even if the zergs were right to say they were UP) Now boxer just says he dosen't want terran to be nerfed any more, and I think everyone can agree on this one.
|
On October 31 2010 06:12 lastmotion wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2010 05:56 HalfAmazing wrote:On October 31 2010 04:39 lastmotion wrote:On October 31 2010 04:11 StarcraftMan wrote:On October 31 2010 00:30 raf3776 wrote: Like nada said you need to be equal bases against zerg to have a chance, which makes sense. two terran bases= to 4 zerg bases doesn't sound like it would make the most sense. ROFL. Zerg hatcheries are cheaper than CCs. Blizzard intended Zerg players to have a lead in macro to stay competitive with the other races. There is something broken with SC2 if Terran has to match Zerg bases all the time to stay competitive - SC2 is the same as BW. Zerg hatchery = 300 mineral + drone lost (50) mineral + lost mining time from that one drone until a new drone comes out to replace it. So it's extremely close to 400 minerals I really lost all respect for Boxer at this point. We know that T is actually OP instead of UP because the last 2 patches wasn't that impacting. Yes even the supply before rax nerf actually just makes T play a more macro-orientated opening and he will be ahead. The roach range increase affected ZvP a lot more than ZvT, and Roaches are still crushed by tanks/banshees/marauders. The other nerf was the tank nerf but then again, it still kills lings in the same number of hits as before and after patch. The only REAL nerf was the reaper delay. Well that's okay because Terran still has a million other openings to choose from mid-game. Basically, the last two patches didn't do much. Now, we know Boxer is a paid progamer and he plays T. He is in a position where his fans will dislike him if he abandons the T race. Thats why he can't really switch races. (Notice how he said random instead of Z or P?) Therefore, the best thing for his CAREER is to complain and whine until Terran can get buffed. I don't blame him for choosing his career over the balance of the game. But still, that's somewhat selfish in my eyes. This is coming from a man who "did" so much for the e-sports community. One sign of BW dying and he quickly jumps ship. Boxer, you've died in my heart a long time ago =/ Your ignorance and condescending manner are so aggravating to me. I genuinely feel anger after reading your post, because there is so much wrong with you as a person. Awesome, you attack my character than my content. If my post has things you disagree with, feel free to point them out rather than using ad hominem attacks. So people who do not agree with your views are "wrong as a person?" I feel like its incredibly ironic for you to say something like that, because of how much assumption + anger you display in your post. In my eyes, the person that has so much wrong is you EDIT: I just dug up some of your posts and you're clearly delusional because you assumed T was underpowered and Z was the "strongest race" LOL. That explains why Z dominated the tournaments right? (except GSL because Fruitdealer showed us Skill can overcome balance sometimes) Show nested quote +On August 07 2010 00:13 HalfAmazing wrote: Not only is the matchup not imbalanced, once zerg reaches mass ultra stage, terran is forced to turtle. Idra's just throwing sand in your eyes, blinding you to the reality of zerg actually STILL being overpowered. The only thing that's changed is that zerg no longer has the midgame advantage with roaches. What do you see in reps where t beats z? Succesful one or two base timing push after zerg powered too hard, or turtling terran having waves and waves of zerg goo thrown at him unsuccesfully.
Don't be fooled by his idiotic "I'm a zerg superstar motherfucker, and I win in spite of terran being broken." Plenty of other zergs like dimaga and sen don't struggle at all vs. terran. Idra's schtick is just pathetic. This post where you derail a world-class foreign player just shows how hateful and biased you are. How were you not banned from a post like this? wow
Derail a world class player? What the fuck are you talking about? You just said "I JUST LOST ALL RESPECT FOR THE GREATEST PLAYER OF ALL TIME" when your opinion on Boxer, BW or SC II is completely irrelevant. How good of a player are you? Link me to your sc2ranks.com profile please because you can't possibly have a clue.
|
Now people are talking about Terran lategame needing help, while Ghost-Raven-MMM is really strong vs Protoss(P might still have a slight adv), and mass Thor-type build are cost-effective vs anything Z has and 200/200 army with about 10 Thors can't realistically be defeated anywhere near cost-efficiently. I just think that Ts are less comfortable with lategame because before they could finish their games early.
|
Show nested quote +On August 07 2010 00:13 HalfAmazing wrote: Not only is the matchup not imbalanced, once zerg reaches mass ultra stage, terran is forced to turtle. Idra's just throwing sand in your eyes, blinding you to the reality of zerg actually STILL being overpowered. The only thing that's changed is that zerg no longer has the midgame advantage with roaches. What do you see in reps where t beats z? Succesful one or two base timing push after zerg powered too hard, or turtling terran having waves and waves of zerg goo thrown at him unsuccesfully.
Don't be fooled by his idiotic "I'm a zerg superstar motherfucker, and I win in spite of terran being broken." Plenty of other zergs like dimaga and sen don't struggle at all vs. terran. Idra's schtick is just pathetic. This post where you derail a world-class foreign player just shows how hateful and biased you are. How were you not banned from a post like this? wow Quite the opposite my friend.
So sad to see fanboys flaiming and taking every single balance discussion like a personal insult. Why the need to be offensive towards people playing the other races? Is this a WOW thing or something? Wiling to go as far as saying things like "i lost all respect for Boxer" for what? For pointing out what he thinks is wrong?
Boxers word bears 10 times more weight then that of any other player at this time. If you can not respect that then, flame away.
Some utterly pathetic posts in here.
|
I just want to come in here and say: I find it hilarious about all the terrans complaining about balance now. These were the same people saying "Zerg isn't imba, just use Nydus Canal more! Then several patches that helped zerg a lot come, and all of the sudden these ones telling the zergs to stop "qqing" are now qqing themselves. Funny.
|
On October 31 2010 07:16 Comeh wrote: I just want to come in here and say: I find it hilarious about all the terrans complaining about balance now. These were the same people saying "Zerg isn't imba, just use Nydus Canal more! Then several patches that helped zerg a lot come, and all of the sudden these ones telling the zergs to stop "qqing" are now qqing themselves. Funny. Only problem is the Zerg got buffed, and the Terran got nerfed respectively. Had they kept Terran at that previous level, it would not be a problem.
|
On October 31 2010 07:21 Reaper9 wrote: Only problem is the Zerg got buffed, and the Terran got nerfed respectively. Had they kept Terran at that previous level, it would not be a problem.
^^^ QFT
The gap widened further when Blizzard buffed Zerg AND nerfed Terran in the same patch. They should have just buffed Zerg, left Terran alone, and observed the new balance changes rather than acting so drastically. Now there are balance issues again and Blizzard will probably have to undo some of their last patch changes.
|
I understand some of boxers thinking, although im not sure terran is underpowered as such. The real imbalance in tvz match up is the level of micro and tactical thinking needed to optimize terran play compare to zerg. Terran have to constantly harass to stay in the game, zerg just sit back and macro. Terran army micro is just in a different universe compared to zergs a-move for every unit then spam back to 200/200 army in 20 sec, its just mindless. Yes zerg have to put more apm into macro than terran but it doesnt make up for the ez-mode zerg gets for everything else. Blizz needs increase the micro requirements for zerg and the matchup will be fairer.
|
On October 31 2010 07:36 ironside wrote: I understand some of boxers thinking, although im not sure terran is underpowered as such. The real imbalance in tvz match up is the level of micro and tactical thinking needed to optimize terran play compare to zerg. Terran have to constantly harass to stay in the game, zerg just sit back and macro. Terran army micro is just in a different universe compared to zergs a-move for every unit then spam back to 200/200 army in 20 sec, its just mindless. Yes zerg have to put more apm into macro than terran but it doesnt make up for the ez-mode zerg gets for everything else. Blizz needs increase the micro requirements for zerg and the matchup will be fairer.
Play zerg and you'll realize zerg has alot more to do then just macro an army and sit back all game.
|
On October 31 2010 07:00 Shikyo wrote: Now people are talking about Terran lategame needing help, while Ghost-Raven-MMM is really strong vs Protoss(P might still have a slight adv), and mass Thor-type build are cost-effective vs anything Z has and 200/200 army with about 10 Thors can't realistically be defeated anywhere near cost-efficiently. I just think that Ts are less comfortable with lategame because before they could finish their games early.
It's not a matter of T's being comfortable in late game. A lot of T's would LOVE to be able to play a late game macro game.
You can't though. That's why you see T's doing their best to win early. Because if the game goes past 15 minutes it's virtually impossibe to win versus templar free storm warp ins and larva inject.
Do you and other people really think that top tier Terrans are "not comfortable" late game vs P/Z? I truly wish that were the case..
|
LOL... TONS of people suddenly look very stupid :D
both camps (team terra OP and team terra UP)
|
On October 31 2010 06:33 HalfAmazing wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2010 06:12 lastmotion wrote:On October 31 2010 05:56 HalfAmazing wrote:On October 31 2010 04:39 lastmotion wrote:On October 31 2010 04:11 StarcraftMan wrote:On October 31 2010 00:30 raf3776 wrote: Like nada said you need to be equal bases against zerg to have a chance, which makes sense. two terran bases= to 4 zerg bases doesn't sound like it would make the most sense. ROFL. Zerg hatcheries are cheaper than CCs. Blizzard intended Zerg players to have a lead in macro to stay competitive with the other races. There is something broken with SC2 if Terran has to match Zerg bases all the time to stay competitive - SC2 is the same as BW. Zerg hatchery = 300 mineral + drone lost (50) mineral + lost mining time from that one drone until a new drone comes out to replace it. So it's extremely close to 400 minerals I really lost all respect for Boxer at this point. We know that T is actually OP instead of UP because the last 2 patches wasn't that impacting. Yes even the supply before rax nerf actually just makes T play a more macro-orientated opening and he will be ahead. The roach range increase affected ZvP a lot more than ZvT, and Roaches are still crushed by tanks/banshees/marauders. The other nerf was the tank nerf but then again, it still kills lings in the same number of hits as before and after patch. The only REAL nerf was the reaper delay. Well that's okay because Terran still has a million other openings to choose from mid-game. Basically, the last two patches didn't do much. Now, we know Boxer is a paid progamer and he plays T. He is in a position where his fans will dislike him if he abandons the T race. Thats why he can't really switch races. (Notice how he said random instead of Z or P?) Therefore, the best thing for his CAREER is to complain and whine until Terran can get buffed. I don't blame him for choosing his career over the balance of the game. But still, that's somewhat selfish in my eyes. This is coming from a man who "did" so much for the e-sports community. One sign of BW dying and he quickly jumps ship. Boxer, you've died in my heart a long time ago =/ Your ignorance and condescending manner are so aggravating to me. I genuinely feel anger after reading your post, because there is so much wrong with you as a person. Awesome, you attack my character than my content. If my post has things you disagree with, feel free to point them out rather than using ad hominem attacks. So people who do not agree with your views are "wrong as a person?" I feel like its incredibly ironic for you to say something like that, because of how much assumption + anger you display in your post. In my eyes, the person that has so much wrong is you EDIT: I just dug up some of your posts and you're clearly delusional because you assumed T was underpowered and Z was the "strongest race" LOL. That explains why Z dominated the tournaments right? (except GSL because Fruitdealer showed us Skill can overcome balance sometimes) On August 07 2010 00:13 HalfAmazing wrote: Not only is the matchup not imbalanced, once zerg reaches mass ultra stage, terran is forced to turtle. Idra's just throwing sand in your eyes, blinding you to the reality of zerg actually STILL being overpowered. The only thing that's changed is that zerg no longer has the midgame advantage with roaches. What do you see in reps where t beats z? Succesful one or two base timing push after zerg powered too hard, or turtling terran having waves and waves of zerg goo thrown at him unsuccesfully.
Don't be fooled by his idiotic "I'm a zerg superstar motherfucker, and I win in spite of terran being broken." Plenty of other zergs like dimaga and sen don't struggle at all vs. terran. Idra's schtick is just pathetic. This post where you derail a world-class foreign player just shows how hateful and biased you are. How were you not banned from a post like this? wow Derail a world class player? What the fuck are you talking about? You just said "I JUST LOST ALL RESPECT FOR THE GREATEST PLAYER OF ALL TIME" when your opinion on Boxer, BW or SC II is completely irrelevant. How good of a player are you? Link me to your sc2ranks.com profile please because you can't possibly have a clue.
Yes I said I lost respect for Boxer but I didn't label him as a biased deceiving pathetic guy riding on his stardom to complain like you clearly did for Idra. The word "pathetic" does not even exist in my post about Boxer, and I see "idiotic" and "pathetic" where you described Idra. How does how good of a player I am have anything to do with how badly you insulted a world-class player, and what kind of douche you are?
|
a late game tech-reactor upgrade would be nice
|
On October 31 2010 04:39 lastmotion wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2010 04:11 StarcraftMan wrote:On October 31 2010 00:30 raf3776 wrote: Like nada said you need to be equal bases against zerg to have a chance, which makes sense. two terran bases= to 4 zerg bases doesn't sound like it would make the most sense. ROFL. Zerg hatcheries are cheaper than CCs. Blizzard intended Zerg players to have a lead in macro to stay competitive with the other races. There is something broken with SC2 if Terran has to match Zerg bases all the time to stay competitive - SC2 is the same as BW. Zerg hatchery = 300 mineral + drone lost (50) mineral + lost mining time from that one drone until a new drone comes out to replace it. So it's extremely close to 400 minerals I really lost all respect for Boxer at this point. We know that T is actually OP instead of UP because the last 2 patches wasn't that impacting. Yes even the supply before rax nerf actually just makes T play a more macro-orientated opening and he will be ahead. The roach range increase affected ZvP a lot more than ZvT, and Roaches are still crushed by tanks/banshees/marauders. The other nerf was the tank nerf but then again, it still kills lings in the same number of hits as before and after patch. The only REAL nerf was the reaper delay. Well that's okay because Terran still has a million other openings to choose from mid-game. Basically, the last two patches didn't do much. Now, we know Boxer is a paid progamer and he plays T. He is in a position where his fans will dislike him if he abandons the T race. Thats why he can't really switch races. (Notice how he said random instead of Z or P?) Therefore, the best thing for his CAREER is to complain and whine until Terran can get buffed. I don't blame him for choosing his career over the balance of the game. But still, that's somewhat selfish in my eyes. This is coming from a man who "did" so much for the e-sports community. One sign of BW dying and he quickly jumps ship.
Boxer, you've died in my heart a long time ago =/
ya i agree with the guy who says this is bs. this is just your paranoid thoughts about the situation, and shows quite a bit about your character as a person. you automatically assume the worst and make tons of assumptions.
classy
|
terran isnt close to UP in any match up
|
Boxer is so awesome, what a cool guy.
His humility when it comes to his opponents and his play style is just so classy. I'm SO excited about his comeback!
Boxer fighting!
|
On October 31 2010 07:28 StarcraftMan wrote:
The gap widened further when Blizzard buffed Zerg AND nerfed Terran in the same patch. They should have just buffed Zerg, left Terran alone, and observed the new balance changes rather than acting so drastically. Now there are balance issues again and Blizzard will probably have to undo some of their last patch changes.
Not to pick on you specifically, but I think this post gives a great perspective of the last two patches. I distinctly remember the previous patch (1.1.1.numbers) where the only changes that were done were the ones posted in the situation report months ago. Everyone screamed that this wasn't enough, it didn't change things drastically enough, blah blah. Now look at what we have, and even Boxer is mentioning this? Boxer saying something small like "Oh I might go random whatever" is essentially equal to all of the zerg players screaming imbalance since retail.
As a zerg player, I agree that when I see Terran, I smile. The only time I really lose is when I get bunkered and don't scout, and that's usually my problem anyway.
|
On October 31 2010 08:31 BluFenix wrote: As a zerg player, I agree that when I see Terran, I smile. The only time I really lose is when I get bunkered and don't scout, and that's usually my problem anyway. To be fair, what exactly are the reasons for that?
I'm absolutely confident facing Terrans (as P), for instance, but that's more due to having played a lot of the MU comparatively and being very familiar with the very standard straight-up play of most ladder terrans. But watching some of the high-level Terrans multitask rather than 1a makes me want to hide under my bed.
|
On October 31 2010 07:57 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2010 07:00 Shikyo wrote: Now people are talking about Terran lategame needing help, while Ghost-Raven-MMM is really strong vs Protoss(P might still have a slight adv), and mass Thor-type build are cost-effective vs anything Z has and 200/200 army with about 10 Thors can't realistically be defeated anywhere near cost-efficiently. I just think that Ts are less comfortable with lategame because before they could finish their games early. It's not a matter of T's being comfortable in late game. A lot of T's would LOVE to be able to play a late game macro game. You can't though. That's why you see T's doing their best to win early. Because if the game goes past 15 minutes it's virtually impossibe to win versus templar free storm warp ins and larva inject. Do you and other people really think that top tier Terrans are "not comfortable" late game vs P/Z? I truly wish that were the case..
But you can though just because you don't know how doesn't mean its not possible. Lots of players have done it, Drewbie does it good, MVP does it good, Nada does it good I mean i'm sorry you can't but thats your problem not balance.
Seriously the last 10+ posts of yours are how terran sucks and needs a buff lol.
|
if terran gets another nerf ima change or just stop playing this game i sound like a QQ noob but seriously in the start of this game i had so much fun choosing bettwen like 5-7 different type of builds now its just marine and marauder for protoss and thor and marines for zerg and tanks and viking for terran idc terran is becoming the new zerg
|
|
|
|