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Boxer: might go random if Terran gets nerfed again. - Page…

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Reaper9
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1724 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-30 19:14:49
October 30 2010 19:13 GMT
#261
MforWW, does The EMPEROR look like a 40 amp terran? ._. And don't go random sarcasm bashing on Protoss to prove your point, that's kind of a low blow. Everyone's taking this out of context again. Yea, the main idea in the past was that Zerg need 1 extra base to stay in the game. Often I see it becomes a 4 vs 2 base most of the time, and Terran's 3rd always denied over and over. It's a pretty rocky road.
I post only when my brain works.
1Eris1
Profile Joined September 2010
United States5797 Posts
October 30 2010 19:14 GMT
#262
On October 31 2010 04:09 Reaper9 wrote:
So then the Zerg switches to hydra and eats the vikings. Indeed replenishing the army for the Terran late game when both are at 200/200 is nearly impossible.



And then the terran switches to helions/tanks whatever. blah. You seem to be assuming the zerg has unlimited minerals and gas. If you let him sit there with 5+ bases with a 200 army then you deserve to lose.
Known Aliases: Tyragon, Valeric ~MSL Forever, SKT is truly the Superior KT!
Reaper9
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1724 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-30 19:18:25
October 30 2010 19:15 GMT
#263
Most of the time the Terran does move out, but late game it's nearly impossible to take every single outer base out, and the Zerg will just start demolishing the tech and roll over the Terran's base.
Edit- I do play random and I love all the races but I always feel it's the Protoss and Zerg always sharply criticizing Terran players, and then when they themselves comment their their race needs work by patching, most people are in agreement.

And as Donkey said, experimenting with the stronger tech means getting to the later game. Most of the time from what I have seen, Terran have the hardest time getting to late game. Also most of the stronger tech are hard countered fast, and Terran has no chance to switch their tech in time.
I post only when my brain works.
DonKey_
Profile Joined May 2010
Liechtenstein1356 Posts
October 30 2010 19:16 GMT
#264
On October 31 2010 04:08 1Eris1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2010 03:55 DonKey_ wrote:
On October 31 2010 03:39 1Eris1 wrote:
Great, now this is a fruitdealer vs boxer flame thread. Just wait a few weeks guys and actually try something new.
Suppose someone gets to late game vs zerg and uses battlecruisers. Okay so the zerg makes corrupters and beats the battlecruisers. But wait, now the zerg has a bunch of useless corrupters, where as the terran can transition into mech. Is this viable? Hell if I know, I never see BC's vs zerg because some people say there pointless and everyone rolls MMM. If people would actually experiment...nearly all of zergs abilities were tested/etc during the 2 month UP period, are you telling me terran has really gone through all of their units in sub 2 weeks?


There's a reason why people say it's pointless and never use BC's they do not work; do you really think in a game like SC2 people have not experimented with BCs.

In fact I can point you to a game in the GSL, NesTea vs KangJiYoung Round of 64 ALL he did those 2 games was BC rush; I guarantee you that people have been experimenting with BC's it's just it has not had any success.



BC rush =/= using BC's. That was just an example. I don't think BC's are great against zerg but I have never seen them in any late game match, except I think a match between Dimaga and Jinro about 2 months back. My point is you have to experiment with units. If you experimented with them a month ago, fine, but things have changed since a month ago.


How does a BC rush =/= using BC's? also I used that as an example to show that Terrans are experimenting and the results have not been good at all.

In a game like SC2 it's naive to say that races are not experimenting with other units and builds, However the reason you actualy do not see these builds and units being used is not because players are stubborn, its because these builds and units are unsuccessful.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
1Eris1
Profile Joined September 2010
United States5797 Posts
October 30 2010 19:22 GMT
#265

How does a BC rush =/= using BC's? also I used that as an example to show that Terrans are experimenting and the results have not been good at all.

In a game like SC2 it's naive to say that races are not experimenting with other units and builds, However the reason you actualy do not see these builds and units being used is not because players are stubborn, its because these builds and units are unsuccessful.


Okay the context was off. I said late game BC's, not BC rushing. And the point still stands. I've yet to see solid raven play, something I feel could be very powerful vs ling/bane/muta for example.
Known Aliases: Tyragon, Valeric ~MSL Forever, SKT is truly the Superior KT!
OutlaW-
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Czech Republic5053 Posts
October 30 2010 19:22 GMT
#266
so many clueless people in this thread
the guy who made starcraft what it is today is saying that terran is a little too weak and you disagree with arguments like terrans need to get better at this game? or that terrans suck compared to the 2 other races? you think you understand starcraft as a game better than boxer? ur fucked up rofl
Delete your post underage b&. You're incestuous for you're onee-chan so you're clearly not a bad guy, but others might not agree
1Eris1
Profile Joined September 2010
United States5797 Posts
October 30 2010 19:24 GMT
#267
On October 31 2010 04:15 Reaper9 wrote:
Most of the time the Terran does move out, but late game it's nearly impossible to take every single outer base out, and the Zerg will just start demolishing the tech and roll over the Terran's base.
Edit- I do play random and I love all the races but I always feel it's the Protoss and Zerg always sharply criticizing Terran players, and then when they themselves comment their their race needs work by patching, most people are in agreement.

And as Donkey said, experimenting with the stronger tech means getting to the later game. Most of the time from what I have seen, Terran have the hardest time getting to late game. Also most of the stronger tech are hard countered fast, and Terran has no chance to switch their tech in time.



I only criticize because they are claiming UP after 2 weeks. All I'm saying is give it time. If zerg dominates in GSL 3 then I'll gladly admit they're OP.
Known Aliases: Tyragon, Valeric ~MSL Forever, SKT is truly the Superior KT!
StarcraftMan
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada507 Posts
October 30 2010 19:29 GMT
#268
On October 31 2010 04:22 OutlaW- wrote:
so many clueless people in this thread
the guy who made starcraft what it is today is saying that terran is a little too weak and you disagree with arguments like terrans need to get better at this game? or that terrans suck compared to the 2 other races? you think you understand starcraft as a game better than boxer? ur fucked up rofl


Yup, that's what I was saying. Boxer understands SC2 and RTS games from a professional viewpoint at a level that we will never reach. If the father of BW Pro Gaming says there is a balance issue in SC2, we should respect his opinion and really take some time to think about what those balance issues are.
Keldaur
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain55 Posts
October 30 2010 19:29 GMT
#269
On October 31 2010 04:24 1Eris1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2010 04:15 Reaper9 wrote:
Most of the time the Terran does move out, but late game it's nearly impossible to take every single outer base out, and the Zerg will just start demolishing the tech and roll over the Terran's base.
Edit- I do play random and I love all the races but I always feel it's the Protoss and Zerg always sharply criticizing Terran players, and then when they themselves comment their their race needs work by patching, most people are in agreement.

And as Donkey said, experimenting with the stronger tech means getting to the later game. Most of the time from what I have seen, Terran have the hardest time getting to late game. Also most of the stronger tech are hard countered fast, and Terran has no chance to switch their tech in time.



I only criticize because they are claiming UP after 2 weeks. All I'm saying is give it time. If zerg dominates in GSL 3 then I'll gladly admit they're OP.



Who cares about you ? Really.

Pro's are also biased, not like everybody else, because they get money for this. I believe banelings are retarded, because fungul > micro. But hey who am i to speak about OP.
SilverPotato
Profile Joined July 2010
United States560 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-30 19:33:15
October 30 2010 19:32 GMT
#270
Every pro is going to say their race is UP. They realize they have insanely passionate fanboys who will vouch for everything they say (see IdrA calling Terran OP). So they abuse that power into getting their race buffed.

As for the recent Terran nerfs... they simply weren't needed. It just took FruitDealer winning GSL 1 for Zergs to realize they were playing wrong the whole time.
"The ability to learn faster than your competitors may be the only sustainable competitive advantage." ~Arie de Geus
DonKey_
Profile Joined May 2010
Liechtenstein1356 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-30 19:40:31
October 30 2010 19:39 GMT
#271
On October 31 2010 04:22 1Eris1 wrote:
Show nested quote +

How does a BC rush =/= using BC's? also I used that as an example to show that Terrans are experimenting and the results have not been good at all.

In a game like SC2 it's naive to say that races are not experimenting with other units and builds, However the reason you actualy do not see these builds and units being used is not because players are stubborn, its because these builds and units are unsuccessful.


Okay the context was off. I said late game BC's, not BC rushing. And the point still stands. I've yet to see solid raven play, something I feel could be very powerful vs ling/bane/muta for example.


Hey if that's what you meant put it in your post. All I'm saying is there is a reason Terrans play MMM; It works the best given the alternatives, and about raven play people know about; there's a whole thread about it, but it does not have the type of success that MMM does that's why people do not use it.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
lastmotion
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
368 Posts
October 30 2010 19:39 GMT
#272
On October 31 2010 04:11 StarcraftMan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2010 00:30 raf3776 wrote:
Like nada said you need to be equal bases against zerg to have a chance, which makes sense. two terran bases= to 4 zerg bases doesn't sound like it would make the most sense.


ROFL. Zerg hatcheries are cheaper than CCs. Blizzard intended Zerg players to have a lead in macro to stay competitive with the other races. There is something broken with SC2 if Terran has to match Zerg bases all the time to stay competitive - SC2 is the same as BW.


Zerg hatchery = 300 mineral + drone lost (50) mineral + lost mining time from that one drone until a new drone comes out to replace it. So it's extremely close to 400 minerals




I really lost all respect for Boxer at this point. We know that T is actually OP instead of UP because the last 2 patches wasn't that impacting. Yes even the supply before rax nerf actually just makes T play a more macro-orientated opening and he will be ahead. The roach range increase affected ZvP a lot more than ZvT, and Roaches are still crushed by tanks/banshees/marauders. The other nerf was the tank nerf but then again, it still kills lings in the same number of hits as before and after patch. The only REAL nerf was the reaper delay. Well that's okay because Terran still has a million other openings to choose from mid-game. Basically, the last two patches didn't do much.

Now, we know Boxer is a paid progamer and he plays T. He is in a position where his fans will dislike him if he abandons the T race. Thats why he can't really switch races. (Notice how he said random instead of Z or P?) Therefore, the best thing for his CAREER is to complain and whine until Terran can get buffed. I don't blame him for choosing his career over the balance of the game. But still, that's somewhat selfish in my eyes. This is coming from a man who "did" so much for the e-sports community. One sign of BW dying and he quickly jumps ship.

Boxer, you've died in my heart a long time ago =/
StarcraftMan
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada507 Posts
October 30 2010 19:46 GMT
#273
On October 31 2010 04:39 lastmotion wrote:
Zerg hatchery = 300 mineral + drone lost (50) mineral + lost mining time from that one drone until a new drone comes out to replace it. So it's extremely close to 400 minerals


You realize the SC2 hatchery to CC model is similar to BW? In BW, a Zerg player has to have more hatcheries than a Terran player for both sides to stay even. If Terran has to match the number of Zerg hatcheries at the same time with the number of CCs in SC2 to stay even, then SC2 is broken. ROFL.
DonKey_
Profile Joined May 2010
Liechtenstein1356 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-30 19:47:48
October 30 2010 19:46 GMT
#274
On October 31 2010 04:39 lastmotion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2010 04:11 StarcraftMan wrote:
On October 31 2010 00:30 raf3776 wrote:
Like nada said you need to be equal bases against zerg to have a chance, which makes sense. two terran bases= to 4 zerg bases doesn't sound like it would make the most sense.


ROFL. Zerg hatcheries are cheaper than CCs. Blizzard intended Zerg players to have a lead in macro to stay competitive with the other races. There is something broken with SC2 if Terran has to match Zerg bases all the time to stay competitive - SC2 is the same as BW.


Zerg hatchery = 300 mineral + drone lost (50) mineral + lost mining time from that one drone until a new drone comes out to replace it. So it's extremely close to 400 minerals




I really lost all respect for Boxer at this point. We know that T is actually OP instead of UP because the last 2 patches wasn't that impacting. Yes even the supply before rax nerf actually just makes T play a more macro-orientated opening and he will be ahead. The roach range increase affected ZvP a lot more than ZvT, and Roaches are still crushed by tanks/banshees/marauders. The other nerf was the tank nerf but then again, it still kills lings in the same number of hits as before and after patch. The only REAL nerf was the reaper delay. Well that's okay because Terran still has a million other openings to choose from mid-game. Basically, the last two patches didn't do much.

Now, we know Boxer is a paid progamer and he plays T. He is in a position where his fans will dislike him if he abandons the T race. Thats why he can't really switch races. (Notice how he said random instead of Z or P?) Therefore, the best thing for his CAREER is to complain and whine until Terran can get buffed. I don't blame him for choosing his career over the balance of the game. But still, that's somewhat selfish in my eyes. This is coming from a man who "did" so much for the e-sports community. One sign of BW dying and he quickly jumps ship.

Boxer, you've died in my heart a long time ago =/


What do mean "we know" who is "we" cause I'm definitely not a part of it and I know I'm not the only one who feels that way. I've never felt Zerg was underpowered or that Terran was Overpowered, so it's not a good idea trying to characterize that as EVERYONE'S opinion from pre patch.

`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
BurningSera
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Ireland19621 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-30 20:23:14
October 30 2010 19:54 GMT
#275
blizzard keep saying that zerg can come back instantly with 200/200 which is why we have shitty cost inefficient units. however, anyone who play in the real game will know how hard to play TvZ. terran 2 bases can still easily beat 4/5 bases zerg, and you know how well a terran can turtle. terran units are OVER cost efficient. anyone who doesnt think MM+medivac need a fix is just fcking lying to himself. and after i said my last sentence, i am well awared of that i kinda 'insulted' my beloved BoxeR, i fcking went to read the original source. and guess what people???

FFS, OP did some misleading translational and you people fight for it 14pages???
do you honestly believe that BoxeR is a QQ-er??
so, for TL's sake, here you goes:
(in my experience, people, whenever you read translation from one language translate to another, you need to beware that there might be some translation mistake.so no offense to OP really.)

OP misleading vesion:
Q: Recently people have said TvZ is hard.

A: I'm probably the one who has said it most! We've got to wait for the next patch, but for now we just try our best. I had this momentary thought in my head, that if I was eliminated I would switch races. Actually I want to go random. In internal battles, for a time, I was random.


the Original version:
Q:最近人族在TvZ上都说难打。

A:我估计是说的最多的(笑)。必须要等到下次补丁更新,现在我只能想办法克服。这次我有个念头一闪而过,就是如果这次被淘汰的话是不是要换个种族。其实我最希望用的是随机。在内测时我有一段时间时用随机的。


now anyone who can read chinese will realise that....OP innocently made some slightly off-translation...or?

what Pro-gamer BoxeR actually meant:
(i use the translation from OP as much as i can, since the creditential of this news is still belonged to him)
Q: Terran is having a hard time in TvZ recently.
A: lol I'm probably the one who has said it the most! (BoxeR actually laughed) I am just gonna try my best until (they give some fix in) the future patch/es. I did have a momentary thought in my head, if i get eliminated (this time), i might consider to switch race. I am actually prefer 'Random' the most. I was playing Random some time during the alpha (i believe him meant 'internal testing' aka alpha, not beta, unless the original source used internal testing = beta).


People, BoxeR talked like a pro. ^^

I urge that anyone who can read chinese have a go of the original source.

Dear Mod:

please beware of this kind of unnecessary confusion thread in future.(i know nothing you can really do but maybe some mods who know chinese can give an extra hand to keep an eye on threads like this).
is 2017, stop being lame, fuck's sakes. 'Can't wait for the rise of the cakes and humanity's last stand tbqh.'
ckw
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1018 Posts
October 30 2010 19:56 GMT
#276
On October 31 2010 04:39 lastmotion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2010 04:11 StarcraftMan wrote:
On October 31 2010 00:30 raf3776 wrote:
Like nada said you need to be equal bases against zerg to have a chance, which makes sense. two terran bases= to 4 zerg bases doesn't sound like it would make the most sense.


ROFL. Zerg hatcheries are cheaper than CCs. Blizzard intended Zerg players to have a lead in macro to stay competitive with the other races. There is something broken with SC2 if Terran has to match Zerg bases all the time to stay competitive - SC2 is the same as BW.


Zerg hatchery = 300 mineral + drone lost (50) mineral + lost mining time from that one drone until a new drone comes out to replace it. So it's extremely close to 400 minerals




I really lost all respect for Boxer at this point. We know that T is actually OP instead of UP because the last 2 patches wasn't that impacting. Yes even the supply before rax nerf actually just makes T play a more macro-orientated opening and he will be ahead. The roach range increase affected ZvP a lot more than ZvT, and Roaches are still crushed by tanks/banshees/marauders. The other nerf was the tank nerf but then again, it still kills lings in the same number of hits as before and after patch. The only REAL nerf was the reaper delay. Well that's okay because Terran still has a million other openings to choose from mid-game. Basically, the last two patches didn't do much.

Now, we know Boxer is a paid progamer and he plays T. He is in a position where his fans will dislike him if he abandons the T race. Thats why he can't really switch races. (Notice how he said random instead of Z or P?) Therefore, the best thing for his CAREER is to complain and whine until Terran can get buffed. I don't blame him for choosing his career over the balance of the game. But still, that's somewhat selfish in my eyes. This is coming from a man who "did" so much for the e-sports community. One sign of BW dying and he quickly jumps ship.

Boxer, you've died in my heart a long time ago =/


Says the Bronze level Zerg...

Honestly for Zergs to say that what Terrans complain about is wrong is completely retarded. You can't make counter statement to things you don't know anything about because you don't play Terran, and you sit there and theory craft bullshit that doesn't work more than half the time. Also saying that every Terran should just be like these pros and space out their Marines and army perfectly to minimize Baneling damage is another stupid comment, how do you expect even a higher level Diamond player to do the same stuff that a pro has to do to compensate for something that shouldn't be.
Being weak is a choice.
Reaper9
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1724 Posts
October 30 2010 19:58 GMT
#277
@BurningSera, sounds good to me , thank you for the translation (note to self: I am Mandarin Chinese, please freaking translate myself next time.) So let's all cool down now XD, Op might want to change his title a bit :O
I post only when my brain works.
TLOBrian
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States453 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-30 22:18:47
October 30 2010 19:59 GMT
#278
On October 31 2010 04:39 lastmotion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2010 04:11 StarcraftMan wrote:
On October 31 2010 00:30 raf3776 wrote:
Like nada said you need to be equal bases against zerg to have a chance, which makes sense. two terran bases= to 4 zerg bases doesn't sound like it would make the most sense.


ROFL. Zerg hatcheries are cheaper than CCs. Blizzard intended Zerg players to have a lead in macro to stay competitive with the other races. There is something broken with SC2 if Terran has to match Zerg bases all the time to stay competitive - SC2 is the same as BW.


Zerg hatchery = 300 mineral + drone lost (50) mineral + lost mining time from that one drone until a new drone comes out to replace it. So it's extremely close to 400 minerals




I really lost all respect for Boxer at this point. We know that T is actually OP instead of UP because the last 2 patches wasn't that impacting. Yes even the supply before rax nerf actually just makes T play a more macro-orientated opening and he will be ahead. The roach range increase affected ZvP a lot more than ZvT, and Roaches are still crushed by tanks/banshees/marauders. The other nerf was the tank nerf but then again, it still kills lings in the same number of hits as before and after patch. The only REAL nerf was the reaper delay. Well that's okay because Terran still has a million other openings to choose from mid-game. Basically, the last two patches didn't do much.

Now, we know Boxer is a paid progamer and he plays T. He is in a position where his fans will dislike him if he abandons the T race. Thats why he can't really switch races. (Notice how he said random instead of Z or P?) Therefore, the best thing for his CAREER is to complain and whine until Terran can get buffed. I don't blame him for choosing his career over the balance of the game. But still, that's somewhat selfish in my eyes. This is coming from a man who "did" so much for the e-sports community. One sign of BW dying and he quickly jumps ship.

Boxer, you've died in my heart a long time ago =/


I honestly really couldn't have said it better myself. I loved Boxer when I watched him when I first got into Starcraft. Boxer may have been the top Broodwar player at one time, but it remains to be seen if he is the top Sc2 player. Even if he was the top Sc2 player, he still can't dictate balance. He can say Terran is Up all he wants, but its not really going to change anything. Good luck Boxer.

Edit: Oh SHIZ. He's not claiming UP or OP, he's just saying that its hard for HIM against Z, and that he'll carry on as normal, unless a magical patch comes along and fixes it(or I think that the metagame will allow Ts to once again dominate Zs....the metagame shifts alot...Remember the fact that Zergs finally learned how to deal with reapers RIGHT BEFORE the reaper nerf.)
Steven Bonnell II is the friggin man.
Reaper9
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1724 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-30 20:03:34
October 30 2010 20:03 GMT
#279
Yep BurningSea's alternate translation is correct. A smack to my own forehead, Boxer isn't complaining, he's just saying he's testing out other races as well, and he enjoys doing it. My own Chinese is intact I see.
I post only when my brain works.
Dekker
Profile Joined July 2010
Germany169 Posts
October 30 2010 20:03 GMT
#280
On October 31 2010 04:59 TLOBrian wrote:
I honestly really couldn't have said it better myself. I loved Boxer when I watched him when I first got into Starcraft. Boxer may have been the top Broodwar player at one time, but it remains to be seen if he is the top Sc2 player. Even if he was the top Sc2 player, he still can't dictate balance. He can say Terran is Up all he wants, but its not really going to change anything. Good luck Boxer.


Read the post a few posts above yours. Someone cleared up the misleading translation.

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