Boxer: might go random if Terran gets nerfed again. - Page…
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Reaper9
United States1724 Posts
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1Eris1
United States5797 Posts
On October 31 2010 04:09 Reaper9 wrote: So then the Zerg switches to hydra and eats the vikings. Indeed replenishing the army for the Terran late game when both are at 200/200 is nearly impossible. And then the terran switches to helions/tanks whatever. blah. You seem to be assuming the zerg has unlimited minerals and gas. If you let him sit there with 5+ bases with a 200 army then you deserve to lose. | ||
Reaper9
United States1724 Posts
Edit- I do play random and I love all the races but I always feel it's the Protoss and Zerg always sharply criticizing Terran players, and then when they themselves comment their their race needs work by patching, most people are in agreement. And as Donkey said, experimenting with the stronger tech means getting to the later game. Most of the time from what I have seen, Terran have the hardest time getting to late game. Also most of the stronger tech are hard countered fast, and Terran has no chance to switch their tech in time. | ||
DonKey_
Liechtenstein1356 Posts
On October 31 2010 04:08 1Eris1 wrote: BC rush =/= using BC's. That was just an example. I don't think BC's are great against zerg but I have never seen them in any late game match, except I think a match between Dimaga and Jinro about 2 months back. My point is you have to experiment with units. If you experimented with them a month ago, fine, but things have changed since a month ago. How does a BC rush =/= using BC's? also I used that as an example to show that Terrans are experimenting and the results have not been good at all. In a game like SC2 it's naive to say that races are not experimenting with other units and builds, However the reason you actualy do not see these builds and units being used is not because players are stubborn, its because these builds and units are unsuccessful. | ||
1Eris1
United States5797 Posts
How does a BC rush =/= using BC's? also I used that as an example to show that Terrans are experimenting and the results have not been good at all. In a game like SC2 it's naive to say that races are not experimenting with other units and builds, However the reason you actualy do not see these builds and units being used is not because players are stubborn, its because these builds and units are unsuccessful. Okay the context was off. I said late game BC's, not BC rushing. And the point still stands. I've yet to see solid raven play, something I feel could be very powerful vs ling/bane/muta for example. | ||
OutlaW-
Czech Republic5053 Posts
the guy who made starcraft what it is today is saying that terran is a little too weak and you disagree with arguments like terrans need to get better at this game? or that terrans suck compared to the 2 other races? you think you understand starcraft as a game better than boxer? ur fucked up rofl | ||
1Eris1
United States5797 Posts
On October 31 2010 04:15 Reaper9 wrote: Most of the time the Terran does move out, but late game it's nearly impossible to take every single outer base out, and the Zerg will just start demolishing the tech and roll over the Terran's base. Edit- I do play random and I love all the races but I always feel it's the Protoss and Zerg always sharply criticizing Terran players, and then when they themselves comment their their race needs work by patching, most people are in agreement. And as Donkey said, experimenting with the stronger tech means getting to the later game. Most of the time from what I have seen, Terran have the hardest time getting to late game. Also most of the stronger tech are hard countered fast, and Terran has no chance to switch their tech in time. I only criticize because they are claiming UP after 2 weeks. All I'm saying is give it time. If zerg dominates in GSL 3 then I'll gladly admit they're OP. | ||
StarcraftMan
Canada507 Posts
On October 31 2010 04:22 OutlaW- wrote: so many clueless people in this thread the guy who made starcraft what it is today is saying that terran is a little too weak and you disagree with arguments like terrans need to get better at this game? or that terrans suck compared to the 2 other races? you think you understand starcraft as a game better than boxer? ur fucked up rofl Yup, that's what I was saying. Boxer understands SC2 and RTS games from a professional viewpoint at a level that we will never reach. If the father of BW Pro Gaming says there is a balance issue in SC2, we should respect his opinion and really take some time to think about what those balance issues are. | ||
Keldaur
Spain55 Posts
On October 31 2010 04:24 1Eris1 wrote: I only criticize because they are claiming UP after 2 weeks. All I'm saying is give it time. If zerg dominates in GSL 3 then I'll gladly admit they're OP. Who cares about you ? Really. Pro's are also biased, not like everybody else, because they get money for this. I believe banelings are retarded, because fungul > micro. But hey who am i to speak about OP. | ||
SilverPotato
United States560 Posts
As for the recent Terran nerfs... they simply weren't needed. It just took FruitDealer winning GSL 1 for Zergs to realize they were playing wrong the whole time. | ||
DonKey_
Liechtenstein1356 Posts
On October 31 2010 04:22 1Eris1 wrote: Okay the context was off. I said late game BC's, not BC rushing. And the point still stands. I've yet to see solid raven play, something I feel could be very powerful vs ling/bane/muta for example. Hey if that's what you meant put it in your post. All I'm saying is there is a reason Terrans play MMM; It works the best given the alternatives, and about raven play people know about; there's a whole thread about it, but it does not have the type of success that MMM does that's why people do not use it. | ||
lastmotion
368 Posts
On October 31 2010 04:11 StarcraftMan wrote: ROFL. Zerg hatcheries are cheaper than CCs. Blizzard intended Zerg players to have a lead in macro to stay competitive with the other races. There is something broken with SC2 if Terran has to match Zerg bases all the time to stay competitive - SC2 is the same as BW. Zerg hatchery = 300 mineral + drone lost (50) mineral + lost mining time from that one drone until a new drone comes out to replace it. So it's extremely close to 400 minerals I really lost all respect for Boxer at this point. We know that T is actually OP instead of UP because the last 2 patches wasn't that impacting. Yes even the supply before rax nerf actually just makes T play a more macro-orientated opening and he will be ahead. The roach range increase affected ZvP a lot more than ZvT, and Roaches are still crushed by tanks/banshees/marauders. The other nerf was the tank nerf but then again, it still kills lings in the same number of hits as before and after patch. The only REAL nerf was the reaper delay. Well that's okay because Terran still has a million other openings to choose from mid-game. Basically, the last two patches didn't do much. Now, we know Boxer is a paid progamer and he plays T. He is in a position where his fans will dislike him if he abandons the T race. Thats why he can't really switch races. (Notice how he said random instead of Z or P?) Therefore, the best thing for his CAREER is to complain and whine until Terran can get buffed. I don't blame him for choosing his career over the balance of the game. But still, that's somewhat selfish in my eyes. This is coming from a man who "did" so much for the e-sports community. One sign of BW dying and he quickly jumps ship. Boxer, you've died in my heart a long time ago =/ | ||
StarcraftMan
Canada507 Posts
On October 31 2010 04:39 lastmotion wrote: Zerg hatchery = 300 mineral + drone lost (50) mineral + lost mining time from that one drone until a new drone comes out to replace it. So it's extremely close to 400 minerals You realize the SC2 hatchery to CC model is similar to BW? In BW, a Zerg player has to have more hatcheries than a Terran player for both sides to stay even. If Terran has to match the number of Zerg hatcheries at the same time with the number of CCs in SC2 to stay even, then SC2 is broken. ROFL. | ||
DonKey_
Liechtenstein1356 Posts
On October 31 2010 04:39 lastmotion wrote: Zerg hatchery = 300 mineral + drone lost (50) mineral + lost mining time from that one drone until a new drone comes out to replace it. So it's extremely close to 400 minerals I really lost all respect for Boxer at this point. We know that T is actually OP instead of UP because the last 2 patches wasn't that impacting. Yes even the supply before rax nerf actually just makes T play a more macro-orientated opening and he will be ahead. The roach range increase affected ZvP a lot more than ZvT, and Roaches are still crushed by tanks/banshees/marauders. The other nerf was the tank nerf but then again, it still kills lings in the same number of hits as before and after patch. The only REAL nerf was the reaper delay. Well that's okay because Terran still has a million other openings to choose from mid-game. Basically, the last two patches didn't do much. Now, we know Boxer is a paid progamer and he plays T. He is in a position where his fans will dislike him if he abandons the T race. Thats why he can't really switch races. (Notice how he said random instead of Z or P?) Therefore, the best thing for his CAREER is to complain and whine until Terran can get buffed. I don't blame him for choosing his career over the balance of the game. But still, that's somewhat selfish in my eyes. This is coming from a man who "did" so much for the e-sports community. One sign of BW dying and he quickly jumps ship. Boxer, you've died in my heart a long time ago =/ What do mean "we know" who is "we" cause I'm definitely not a part of it and I know I'm not the only one who feels that way. I've never felt Zerg was underpowered or that Terran was Overpowered, so it's not a good idea trying to characterize that as EVERYONE'S opinion from pre patch. | ||
BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
FFS, OP did some misleading translational and you people fight for it 14pages??? do you honestly believe that BoxeR is a QQ-er?? so, for TL's sake, here you goes: (in my experience, people, whenever you read translation from one language translate to another, you need to beware that there might be some translation mistake.so no offense to OP really.) OP misleading vesion: Q: Recently people have said TvZ is hard. A: I'm probably the one who has said it most! We've got to wait for the next patch, but for now we just try our best. I had this momentary thought in my head, that if I was eliminated I would switch races. Actually I want to go random. In internal battles, for a time, I was random. the Original version: Q:最近人族在TvZ上都说难打。 A:我估计是说的最多的(笑)。必须要等到下次补丁更新,现在我只能想办法克服。这次我有个念头一闪而过,就是如果这次被淘汰的话是不是要换个种族。其实我最希望用的是随机。在内测时我有一段时间时用随机的。 now anyone who can read chinese will realise that....OP innocently made some slightly off-translation...or? what Pro-gamer BoxeR actually meant: (i use the translation from OP as much as i can, since the creditential of this news is still belonged to him) Q: Terran is having a hard time in TvZ recently. A: lol I'm probably the one who has said it the most! (BoxeR actually laughed) I am just gonna try my best until (they give some fix in) the future patch/es. I did have a momentary thought in my head, if i get eliminated (this time), i might consider to switch race. I am actually prefer 'Random' the most. I was playing Random some time during the alpha (i believe him meant 'internal testing' aka alpha, not beta, unless the original source used internal testing = beta). People, BoxeR talked like a pro. ^^ I urge that anyone who can read chinese have a go of the original source. Dear Mod: please beware of this kind of unnecessary confusion thread in future.(i know nothing you can really do but maybe some mods who know chinese can give an extra hand to keep an eye on threads like this). | ||
ckw
United States1018 Posts
On October 31 2010 04:39 lastmotion wrote: Zerg hatchery = 300 mineral + drone lost (50) mineral + lost mining time from that one drone until a new drone comes out to replace it. So it's extremely close to 400 minerals I really lost all respect for Boxer at this point. We know that T is actually OP instead of UP because the last 2 patches wasn't that impacting. Yes even the supply before rax nerf actually just makes T play a more macro-orientated opening and he will be ahead. The roach range increase affected ZvP a lot more than ZvT, and Roaches are still crushed by tanks/banshees/marauders. The other nerf was the tank nerf but then again, it still kills lings in the same number of hits as before and after patch. The only REAL nerf was the reaper delay. Well that's okay because Terran still has a million other openings to choose from mid-game. Basically, the last two patches didn't do much. Now, we know Boxer is a paid progamer and he plays T. He is in a position where his fans will dislike him if he abandons the T race. Thats why he can't really switch races. (Notice how he said random instead of Z or P?) Therefore, the best thing for his CAREER is to complain and whine until Terran can get buffed. I don't blame him for choosing his career over the balance of the game. But still, that's somewhat selfish in my eyes. This is coming from a man who "did" so much for the e-sports community. One sign of BW dying and he quickly jumps ship. Boxer, you've died in my heart a long time ago =/ Says the Bronze level Zerg... Honestly for Zergs to say that what Terrans complain about is wrong is completely retarded. You can't make counter statement to things you don't know anything about because you don't play Terran, and you sit there and theory craft bullshit that doesn't work more than half the time. Also saying that every Terran should just be like these pros and space out their Marines and army perfectly to minimize Baneling damage is another stupid comment, how do you expect even a higher level Diamond player to do the same stuff that a pro has to do to compensate for something that shouldn't be. | ||
Reaper9
United States1724 Posts
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TLOBrian
United States453 Posts
On October 31 2010 04:39 lastmotion wrote: Zerg hatchery = 300 mineral + drone lost (50) mineral + lost mining time from that one drone until a new drone comes out to replace it. So it's extremely close to 400 minerals I really lost all respect for Boxer at this point. We know that T is actually OP instead of UP because the last 2 patches wasn't that impacting. Yes even the supply before rax nerf actually just makes T play a more macro-orientated opening and he will be ahead. The roach range increase affected ZvP a lot more than ZvT, and Roaches are still crushed by tanks/banshees/marauders. The other nerf was the tank nerf but then again, it still kills lings in the same number of hits as before and after patch. The only REAL nerf was the reaper delay. Well that's okay because Terran still has a million other openings to choose from mid-game. Basically, the last two patches didn't do much. Now, we know Boxer is a paid progamer and he plays T. He is in a position where his fans will dislike him if he abandons the T race. Thats why he can't really switch races. (Notice how he said random instead of Z or P?) Therefore, the best thing for his CAREER is to complain and whine until Terran can get buffed. I don't blame him for choosing his career over the balance of the game. But still, that's somewhat selfish in my eyes. This is coming from a man who "did" so much for the e-sports community. One sign of BW dying and he quickly jumps ship. Boxer, you've died in my heart a long time ago =/ I honestly really couldn't have said it better myself. I loved Boxer when I watched him when I first got into Starcraft. Boxer may have been the top Broodwar player at one time, but it remains to be seen if he is the top Sc2 player. Even if he was the top Sc2 player, he still can't dictate balance. He can say Terran is Up all he wants, but its not really going to change anything. Good luck Boxer. Edit: Oh SHIZ. He's not claiming UP or OP, he's just saying that its hard for HIM against Z, and that he'll carry on as normal, unless a magical patch comes along and fixes it(or I think that the metagame will allow Ts to once again dominate Zs....the metagame shifts alot...Remember the fact that Zergs finally learned how to deal with reapers RIGHT BEFORE the reaper nerf.) | ||
Reaper9
United States1724 Posts
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Dekker
Germany169 Posts
On October 31 2010 04:59 TLOBrian wrote: I honestly really couldn't have said it better myself. I loved Boxer when I watched him when I first got into Starcraft. Boxer may have been the top Broodwar player at one time, but it remains to be seen if he is the top Sc2 player. Even if he was the top Sc2 player, he still can't dictate balance. He can say Terran is Up all he wants, but its not really going to change anything. Good luck Boxer. Read the post a few posts above yours. Someone cleared up the misleading translation. | ||
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