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Tribes: Ascend - FPS announced by Hi-Rez Studios. - Page 132

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ohmkerg
Profile Joined November 2011
United States102 Posts
March 29 2012 22:56 GMT
#2621
On March 30 2012 04:12 Scalepad wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2012 03:45 ohmkerg wrote:
On March 30 2012 03:25 Scalepad wrote:
On March 29 2012 22:24 Ethenielle wrote:
Just because you can't do a clean grab on Arx doesn't mean it's a bad map...

OK mister.


I can't have fun cappin' on that map, so I think it's a bad map. OK?


i consistently get 200~ speed grabs going front to back. back to front can be a little wonky but i still love the map....and all i do is cap

I can't get decent grabs at all on Arx. The only way I'll reach 150+ is by using thrust pack through one of the tunnels D: but usually the dirty sandrakers aren't dumb enough to let me get away with that.


if you're playing diamond, go towards the blood eagle side from the left, approaching the bridge in the middle. ski down from the bridge (still on the left side, facing BE), nitron at the bottom, and get a clear grab. i also shoot spinfusors from the bridge and DMBs and FFs to clear the flag, and still have a ton of momentum
Clownz
Profile Joined February 2009
Finland53 Posts
March 30 2012 06:53 GMT
#2622
On March 30 2012 07:56 ohmkerg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2012 04:12 Scalepad wrote:
On March 30 2012 03:45 ohmkerg wrote:
On March 30 2012 03:25 Scalepad wrote:
On March 29 2012 22:24 Ethenielle wrote:
Just because you can't do a clean grab on Arx doesn't mean it's a bad map...

OK mister.


I can't have fun cappin' on that map, so I think it's a bad map. OK?


i consistently get 200~ speed grabs going front to back. back to front can be a little wonky but i still love the map....and all i do is cap

I can't get decent grabs at all on Arx. The only way I'll reach 150+ is by using thrust pack through one of the tunnels D: but usually the dirty sandrakers aren't dumb enough to let me get away with that.


if you're playing diamond, go towards the blood eagle side from the left, approaching the bridge in the middle. ski down from the bridge (still on the left side, facing BE), nitron at the bottom, and get a clear grab. i also shoot spinfusors from the bridge and DMBs and FFs to clear the flag, and still have a ton of momentum

Does this get you a left to right grab or front to back grab?
Radical dude!
ohmkerg
Profile Joined November 2011
United States102 Posts
March 30 2012 07:12 GMT
#2623
On March 30 2012 15:53 Clownz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2012 07:56 ohmkerg wrote:
On March 30 2012 04:12 Scalepad wrote:
On March 30 2012 03:45 ohmkerg wrote:
On March 30 2012 03:25 Scalepad wrote:
On March 29 2012 22:24 Ethenielle wrote:
Just because you can't do a clean grab on Arx doesn't mean it's a bad map...

OK mister.


I can't have fun cappin' on that map, so I think it's a bad map. OK?


i consistently get 200~ speed grabs going front to back. back to front can be a little wonky but i still love the map....and all i do is cap

I can't get decent grabs at all on Arx. The only way I'll reach 150+ is by using thrust pack through one of the tunnels D: but usually the dirty sandrakers aren't dumb enough to let me get away with that.


if you're playing diamond, go towards the blood eagle side from the left, approaching the bridge in the middle. ski down from the bridge (still on the left side, facing BE), nitron at the bottom, and get a clear grab. i also shoot spinfusors from the bridge and DMBs and FFs to clear the flag, and still have a ton of momentum

Does this get you a left to right grab or front to back grab?



front to back for sure. you'll go under the bridge and have to swing wide and come back around but usually you can make it back. depends on the quality of the chasers. should be able to maintain a 180-200 speed
Scalepad
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden366 Posts
March 30 2012 09:44 GMT
#2624
On March 30 2012 07:56 ohmkerg wrote:
if you're playing diamond, go towards the blood eagle side from the left, approaching the bridge in the middle. ski down from the bridge (still on the left side, facing BE), nitron at the bottom, and get a clear grab. i also shoot spinfusors from the bridge and DMBs and FFs to clear the flag, and still have a ton of momentum

Thanks, but I actually play Blood Eagle 90% of the time. :p Hence "dirty sandrakers". Though I guess this would work for BE too, so I'm gonna try it out.
ohmkerg
Profile Joined November 2011
United States102 Posts
March 30 2012 09:49 GMT
#2625
On March 30 2012 18:44 Scalepad wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2012 07:56 ohmkerg wrote:
if you're playing diamond, go towards the blood eagle side from the left, approaching the bridge in the middle. ski down from the bridge (still on the left side, facing BE), nitron at the bottom, and get a clear grab. i also shoot spinfusors from the bridge and DMBs and FFs to clear the flag, and still have a ton of momentum

Thanks, but I actually play Blood Eagle 90% of the time. :p Hence "dirty sandrakers". Though I guess this would work for BE too, so I'm gonna try it out.


dsword is the way to go, i am a mother effing sandraker

also, i rage in chat to llamas all the time. it's half joking and half not but people get so upset, it's kinda fun. I'm Ohmk in the game
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
March 30 2012 10:02 GMT
#2626
On March 29 2012 20:58 Aylear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 29 2012 20:03 pettter wrote:
Yeah, the jackal nerf was sorely needed, especially for midairs. We'll see how much use it'll see now, but it definitely feels like jackal + smoke nades actually might be a better option than fusor + stickies.

Edit: Also, Blinky: any chance of a recording of that cap route?


Still sticking with Rhino for the consistent damage dealing. It's an almost dead accurate SMG with a high projectile speed and fairly large clip size. It takes down flaggers too effectively for me to give it up. Jackal was definitely OP in its initial form, though. I think this Jackal nerf is kind of... missing the point somewhat, Blizzard style, but it'll do the job.

Brute buffs are like taking a paper towel to Hurricane Katrina.

The rest of the changes are solid. Not a huge patch, but spinfusors all finally getting the same speed = overdue.


There is no reason to use the rhino on inf at all, if you want a great bullet weapon for catching runners or finishing people off you just whip out the pistol. Using an explosive weapon for first slot is a huge advantage, as it allows you a much faster burst of front end damage when coming out of cloak, can down defense better, and is better in CQB. The pistol fulfills the exact same niche the rhino does.
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
Scalepad
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden366 Posts
March 30 2012 10:53 GMT
#2627
On March 30 2012 18:49 ohmkerg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2012 18:44 Scalepad wrote:
On March 30 2012 07:56 ohmkerg wrote:
if you're playing diamond, go towards the blood eagle side from the left, approaching the bridge in the middle. ski down from the bridge (still on the left side, facing BE), nitron at the bottom, and get a clear grab. i also shoot spinfusors from the bridge and DMBs and FFs to clear the flag, and still have a ton of momentum

Thanks, but I actually play Blood Eagle 90% of the time. :p Hence "dirty sandrakers". Though I guess this would work for BE too, so I'm gonna try it out.


dsword is the way to go, i am a mother effing sandraker

also, i rage in chat to llamas all the time. it's half joking and half not but people get so upset, it's kinda fun. I'm Ohmk in the game

I just played a game on Drydock, where a DMB was llamaing constantly. Not very fun when you're going 200+ sanics D:
pettter
Profile Joined December 2009
Sweden1032 Posts
March 30 2012 11:18 GMT
#2628
On March 30 2012 19:53 Scalepad wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2012 18:49 ohmkerg wrote:
On March 30 2012 18:44 Scalepad wrote:
On March 30 2012 07:56 ohmkerg wrote:
if you're playing diamond, go towards the blood eagle side from the left, approaching the bridge in the middle. ski down from the bridge (still on the left side, facing BE), nitron at the bottom, and get a clear grab. i also shoot spinfusors from the bridge and DMBs and FFs to clear the flag, and still have a ton of momentum

Thanks, but I actually play Blood Eagle 90% of the time. :p Hence "dirty sandrakers". Though I guess this would work for BE too, so I'm gonna try it out.


dsword is the way to go, i am a mother effing sandraker

also, i rage in chat to llamas all the time. it's half joking and half not but people get so upset, it's kinda fun. I'm Ohmk in the game

I just played a game on Drydock, where a DMB was llamaing constantly. Not very fun when you're going 200+ sanics D:

For some reason, I haven't had such humongous llama problems on Drydock as I've had on certain other maps, notably temple and crossfire. More than one time I've felt the Llama Island clip to be very relevant.
Aylear
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Norway3988 Posts
March 30 2012 11:23 GMT
#2629
On March 30 2012 19:02 sob3k wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 29 2012 20:58 Aylear wrote:
On March 29 2012 20:03 pettter wrote:
Yeah, the jackal nerf was sorely needed, especially for midairs. We'll see how much use it'll see now, but it definitely feels like jackal + smoke nades actually might be a better option than fusor + stickies.

Edit: Also, Blinky: any chance of a recording of that cap route?


Still sticking with Rhino for the consistent damage dealing. It's an almost dead accurate SMG with a high projectile speed and fairly large clip size. It takes down flaggers too effectively for me to give it up. Jackal was definitely OP in its initial form, though. I think this Jackal nerf is kind of... missing the point somewhat, Blizzard style, but it'll do the job.

Brute buffs are like taking a paper towel to Hurricane Katrina.

The rest of the changes are solid. Not a huge patch, but spinfusors all finally getting the same speed = overdue.


There is no reason to use the rhino on inf at all, if you want a great bullet weapon for catching runners or finishing people off you just whip out the pistol. Using an explosive weapon for first slot is a huge advantage, as it allows you a much faster burst of front end damage when coming out of cloak, can down defense better, and is better in CQB. The pistol fulfills the exact same niche the rhino does.


Completely dead wrong, and every single competitive infil player wants to have a word with you.
TL+ Member
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-30 11:31:45
March 30 2012 11:29 GMT
#2630
On March 30 2012 20:23 Aylear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2012 19:02 sob3k wrote:
On March 29 2012 20:58 Aylear wrote:
On March 29 2012 20:03 pettter wrote:
Yeah, the jackal nerf was sorely needed, especially for midairs. We'll see how much use it'll see now, but it definitely feels like jackal + smoke nades actually might be a better option than fusor + stickies.

Edit: Also, Blinky: any chance of a recording of that cap route?


Still sticking with Rhino for the consistent damage dealing. It's an almost dead accurate SMG with a high projectile speed and fairly large clip size. It takes down flaggers too effectively for me to give it up. Jackal was definitely OP in its initial form, though. I think this Jackal nerf is kind of... missing the point somewhat, Blizzard style, but it'll do the job.

Brute buffs are like taking a paper towel to Hurricane Katrina.

The rest of the changes are solid. Not a huge patch, but spinfusors all finally getting the same speed = overdue.


There is no reason to use the rhino on inf at all, if you want a great bullet weapon for catching runners or finishing people off you just whip out the pistol. Using an explosive weapon for first slot is a huge advantage, as it allows you a much faster burst of front end damage when coming out of cloak, can down defense better, and is better in CQB. The pistol fulfills the exact same niche the rhino does.


Completely dead wrong, and every single competitive infil player wants to have a word with you.


Can you explain? The only reason I see for running it competitively is if every single player is running full bullet weapons and just spraying the shit out of everything, is that what has been happening in camp matches?
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
pettter
Profile Joined December 2009
Sweden1032 Posts
March 30 2012 11:32 GMT
#2631
On March 30 2012 20:29 sob3k wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2012 20:23 Aylear wrote:
On March 30 2012 19:02 sob3k wrote:
On March 29 2012 20:58 Aylear wrote:
On March 29 2012 20:03 pettter wrote:
Yeah, the jackal nerf was sorely needed, especially for midairs. We'll see how much use it'll see now, but it definitely feels like jackal + smoke nades actually might be a better option than fusor + stickies.

Edit: Also, Blinky: any chance of a recording of that cap route?


Still sticking with Rhino for the consistent damage dealing. It's an almost dead accurate SMG with a high projectile speed and fairly large clip size. It takes down flaggers too effectively for me to give it up. Jackal was definitely OP in its initial form, though. I think this Jackal nerf is kind of... missing the point somewhat, Blizzard style, but it'll do the job.

Brute buffs are like taking a paper towel to Hurricane Katrina.

The rest of the changes are solid. Not a huge patch, but spinfusors all finally getting the same speed = overdue.


There is no reason to use the rhino on inf at all, if you want a great bullet weapon for catching runners or finishing people off you just whip out the pistol. Using an explosive weapon for first slot is a huge advantage, as it allows you a much faster burst of front end damage when coming out of cloak, can down defense better, and is better in CQB. The pistol fulfills the exact same niche the rhino does.


Completely dead wrong, and every single competitive infil player wants to have a word with you.


Can you explain?

SMG (hold down mouse button, aim) vs. semi-automatic (clickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclick).
Muey
Profile Joined August 2007
Finland149 Posts
March 30 2012 11:38 GMT
#2632
I'm pretty sure the vast majority of comp players (if not all) use various toggle fire scripts that allow you to shoot any weapon at max rate just by holding the mouse down.


Either way, it's easier to get a bead on your target with the Rhino than with the sn7, and the bullets are notably faster on it as well.

Until weapon switch speeds get a buff, you're not really limiting yourself in terms of damage output by going rhino over the sfusor in an outdoor environment, because switching isn't worth it anyway.
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
March 30 2012 11:46 GMT
#2633
On March 30 2012 20:38 Muey wrote:
I'm pretty sure the vast majority of comp players (if not all) use various toggle fire scripts that allow you to shoot any weapon at max rate just by holding the mouse down.


Either way, it's easier to get a bead on your target with the Rhino than with the sn7, and the bullets are notably faster on it as well.

Until weapon switch speeds get a buff, you're not really limiting yourself in terms of damage output by going rhino over the sfusor in an outdoor environment, because switching isn't worth it anyway.


I'm pretty sure they have the same projectile speed, and the pistol has higher DPS.
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
Coriolis
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1152 Posts
March 30 2012 12:02 GMT
#2634
On March 30 2012 20:29 sob3k wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2012 20:23 Aylear wrote:
On March 30 2012 19:02 sob3k wrote:
On March 29 2012 20:58 Aylear wrote:
On March 29 2012 20:03 pettter wrote:
Yeah, the jackal nerf was sorely needed, especially for midairs. We'll see how much use it'll see now, but it definitely feels like jackal + smoke nades actually might be a better option than fusor + stickies.

Edit: Also, Blinky: any chance of a recording of that cap route?


Still sticking with Rhino for the consistent damage dealing. It's an almost dead accurate SMG with a high projectile speed and fairly large clip size. It takes down flaggers too effectively for me to give it up. Jackal was definitely OP in its initial form, though. I think this Jackal nerf is kind of... missing the point somewhat, Blizzard style, but it'll do the job.

Brute buffs are like taking a paper towel to Hurricane Katrina.

The rest of the changes are solid. Not a huge patch, but spinfusors all finally getting the same speed = overdue.


There is no reason to use the rhino on inf at all, if you want a great bullet weapon for catching runners or finishing people off you just whip out the pistol. Using an explosive weapon for first slot is a huge advantage, as it allows you a much faster burst of front end damage when coming out of cloak, can down defense better, and is better in CQB. The pistol fulfills the exact same niche the rhino does.


Completely dead wrong, and every single competitive infil player wants to have a word with you.


Can you explain? The only reason I see for running it competitively is if every single player is running full bullet weapons and just spraying the shit out of everything, is that what has been happening in camp matches?

That is what pretty much happens. Chainguns>all in tribes.
Descolada in everything not TL/Starcraft
Aylear
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Norway3988 Posts
March 30 2012 12:28 GMT
#2635
On March 30 2012 21:02 Coriolis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2012 20:29 sob3k wrote:
On March 30 2012 20:23 Aylear wrote:
On March 30 2012 19:02 sob3k wrote:
On March 29 2012 20:58 Aylear wrote:
On March 29 2012 20:03 pettter wrote:
Yeah, the jackal nerf was sorely needed, especially for midairs. We'll see how much use it'll see now, but it definitely feels like jackal + smoke nades actually might be a better option than fusor + stickies.

Edit: Also, Blinky: any chance of a recording of that cap route?


Still sticking with Rhino for the consistent damage dealing. It's an almost dead accurate SMG with a high projectile speed and fairly large clip size. It takes down flaggers too effectively for me to give it up. Jackal was definitely OP in its initial form, though. I think this Jackal nerf is kind of... missing the point somewhat, Blizzard style, but it'll do the job.

Brute buffs are like taking a paper towel to Hurricane Katrina.

The rest of the changes are solid. Not a huge patch, but spinfusors all finally getting the same speed = overdue.


There is no reason to use the rhino on inf at all, if you want a great bullet weapon for catching runners or finishing people off you just whip out the pistol. Using an explosive weapon for first slot is a huge advantage, as it allows you a much faster burst of front end damage when coming out of cloak, can down defense better, and is better in CQB. The pistol fulfills the exact same niche the rhino does.


Completely dead wrong, and every single competitive infil player wants to have a word with you.


Can you explain? The only reason I see for running it competitively is if every single player is running full bullet weapons and just spraying the shit out of everything, is that what has been happening in camp matches?

That is what pretty much happens. Chainguns>all in tribes.


This. For better or worse, this. Like I said before, the Rhino SMG (and, indeed, most SMGs in the game) are dead accurate spray weapons with a high projectile speed and a clip size large enough to kill any light class in seconds. Add to that the fact that in competitive matches 99% of the action takes place outside (on account of generators barely mattering), it's an easy pick. I guarantee you, if you put another infil against me in a duel, on even footing, who is using the spinfusor or jackal, anywhere that isn't a hallway, I am going to kill that infil with my SMG nine times out of ten. It's so easy to hit with my SMG, and I'm not even that good at it.

Zaijiko and Makasuro likewise grab the Rhino for their matches -- and Zaijiko is the only player right now who always goes Infil for the entire game. Hell, even Anarchy, the most stubborn blue plate specialist who touts the Stealth Spinfusor in pubs and actively pursues any chance to midair anyone ever, openly laments the fact that his beloved weapon will never be as effective as the SMG, and he (smartly) switches to the Rhino for PUGs or matches.

During standoffs (when infils are at their best) the absolute best weapon to pick off the flag carrier will be the SMG. Its constant damage trumps any inconsistent or situational damage dealing weapons, and the spinfusor and jackal are exactly that.

And finally, as Descolada said, every other fighting class will be using an SMG or chaingun type weapon as their main. Guess why we hardly ever see a Brute in competitive play?
TL+ Member
Muey
Profile Joined August 2007
Finland149 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-30 16:17:07
March 30 2012 16:15 GMT
#2636
On March 30 2012 20:46 sob3k wrote:
I'm pretty sure they have the same projectile speed, and the pistol has higher DPS.

This was actually tested by a guy on the official forums.

The chaingun, LAR, and SN7 had the slowest projectile, about 10% slower ( IIRC ) than the NJ4, LMG, and Tech SMG, which in turn were about 10% slower than the AR, Falcon and Rhino SMG.


edit: Here is the thread in question.
Thehummel
Profile Joined August 2010
Denmark122 Posts
March 30 2012 19:26 GMT
#2637
What would the optimal perks for a offensive soldier?
Scalepad
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden366 Posts
March 30 2012 19:28 GMT
#2638
Anyone know if they are going to add some sort of chat interface to the lobby? Or joining as a party?
AnachronisticAnarchy
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States2957 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-30 19:40:10
March 30 2012 19:37 GMT
#2639
On March 30 2012 21:28 Aylear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2012 21:02 Coriolis wrote:
On March 30 2012 20:29 sob3k wrote:
On March 30 2012 20:23 Aylear wrote:
On March 30 2012 19:02 sob3k wrote:
On March 29 2012 20:58 Aylear wrote:
On March 29 2012 20:03 pettter wrote:
Yeah, the jackal nerf was sorely needed, especially for midairs. We'll see how much use it'll see now, but it definitely feels like jackal + smoke nades actually might be a better option than fusor + stickies.

Edit: Also, Blinky: any chance of a recording of that cap route?


Still sticking with Rhino for the consistent damage dealing. It's an almost dead accurate SMG with a high projectile speed and fairly large clip size. It takes down flaggers too effectively for me to give it up. Jackal was definitely OP in its initial form, though. I think this Jackal nerf is kind of... missing the point somewhat, Blizzard style, but it'll do the job.

Brute buffs are like taking a paper towel to Hurricane Katrina.

The rest of the changes are solid. Not a huge patch, but spinfusors all finally getting the same speed = overdue.


There is no reason to use the rhino on inf at all, if you want a great bullet weapon for catching runners or finishing people off you just whip out the pistol. Using an explosive weapon for first slot is a huge advantage, as it allows you a much faster burst of front end damage when coming out of cloak, can down defense better, and is better in CQB. The pistol fulfills the exact same niche the rhino does.


Completely dead wrong, and every single competitive infil player wants to have a word with you.


Can you explain? The only reason I see for running it competitively is if every single player is running full bullet weapons and just spraying the shit out of everything, is that what has been happening in camp matches?

That is what pretty much happens. Chainguns>all in tribes.


This. For better or worse, this. Like I said before, the Rhino SMG (and, indeed, most SMGs in the game) are dead accurate spray weapons with a high projectile speed and a clip size large enough to kill any light class in seconds. Add to that the fact that in competitive matches 99% of the action takes place outside (on account of generators barely mattering), it's an easy pick. I guarantee you, if you put another infil against me in a duel, on even footing, who is using the spinfusor or jackal, anywhere that isn't a hallway, I am going to kill that infil with my SMG nine times out of ten. It's so easy to hit with my SMG, and I'm not even that good at it.

Zaijiko and Makasuro likewise grab the Rhino for their matches -- and Zaijiko is the only player right now who always goes Infil for the entire game. Hell, even Anarchy, the most stubborn blue plate specialist who touts the Stealth Spinfusor in pubs and actively pursues any chance to midair anyone ever, openly laments the fact that his beloved weapon will never be as effective as the SMG, and he (smartly) switches to the Rhino for PUGs or matches.

During standoffs (when infils are at their best) the absolute best weapon to pick off the flag carrier will be the SMG. Its constant damage trumps any inconsistent or situational damage dealing weapons, and the spinfusor and jackal are exactly that.

And finally, as Descolada said, every other fighting class will be using an SMG or chaingun type weapon as their main. Guess why we hardly ever see a Brute in competitive play?


Is it really that bad? Like, I went up against some of the better players in arena and TDM mode a few times and while I'm pretty much hitting them almost every single time with my non-explosive/spinfusor weapon of choice they just blow me out of the sky then take me out on the ground/taking off. I would call imba, but I'm using a weapon that is nigh on hitscan, so I'm probably not in a position to say that
"How are you?" "I am fine, because it is not normal to scream in pain."
Tamburlaine
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada288 Posts
March 30 2012 20:46 GMT
#2640
On March 31 2012 01:15 Muey wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2012 20:46 sob3k wrote:
I'm pretty sure they have the same projectile speed, and the pistol has higher DPS.

This was actually tested by a guy on the official forums.

The chaingun, LAR, and SN7 had the slowest projectile, about 10% slower ( IIRC ) than the NJ4, LMG, and Tech SMG, which in turn were about 10% slower than the AR, Falcon and Rhino SMG.


edit: Here is the thread in question.

M4risa's numbers are many patches old, and Hi-Rez often does minor changes without mentioning them in the patch notes. After the last patch, one of the developers posted to say that there were only two groups of bullet weapon speeds, and that knives were slower than all of them.
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